old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: Grahamm on 19 August 2012, 10:32:59 pm
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... gravel rash ain't pretty...!
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Yup, and unfortunately the last couple of days I have lost count of the amount of idiots riding without even basic protection or GLOVES! It may be hot when i'm getting ready to go out but as soon as I start moving all is well. Have found the best base layer stuff for me is some cheap Hi Gear stuff from go outdoors.
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I have no sympathy for those who are foolish enough to ride without basic protection. I'd rather be a little warmer than have my skin ripped off and bones ground down.
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I'd rather not be distracted by dangerous overheating but hey its always a good argument this one isn't it.
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If I'm going out on a short ride in extremely hot weather, I will probably only wear jeans and a light leather jacket (and gloves). I am wholly aware that my risk of injury has stepped up a notch and I ride pretty sedately. If I'm going out for the day however, I will always put the gear on though. I don't feel that I can relax without it. Like SteveH41 said, there isn't an issue with heat once you're moving.
What gets me though, are the myriad Scooter riders and 125ers who seem totally oblivious to the dangers of riding in shorts and t-shirts (shell suits in Liverpool). These things will do 60mph and I dread to think what the rider will look like after a slide along the tarmac at that speed (or even half that speed).
Mind you, each to their own!
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i always wear a jacket, gloves and boots - my only concession to the hot weather are kevlar jeans instead of leathers with armour and the jacket is a lighter, cafe race style - still with armour tho.
Nuts - A lot of those injuries would have been mitigated with just the jacket and boots.
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I'd rather not be distracted by dangerous overheating but hey its always a good argument this one isn't it.
As mentioned elsewhere, a couple of weeks ago I went on holiday down to North Devon for a week of surfing and biking. Because the forecast for the Friday I left (and for the week to come) was for overcast and possibly heavy showers, I took the wet-weather textile gear.
On the Friday I came back it was sunny and hot so I was sweating like buggery, but if it became too much I could easily stop and cool off for a while. Had I had an Off without the gear, however, it wouldn't be so easy to get rid of the skin damage...
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I've said it before but it's all about choice, if i want to ride semi naked that's my choice same as smoking and getting lashed up on a Saturday night.
I've popped to the shops with jeans and a textile jacket, boots and gloves on but I've popped to the beach in shorts and a tee shirt. If i was going any distance or i thought i'd be getting a move on i would wear all of my protective clothing. I personally think gloves are as important as a helmet? (Google de-gloved hand?)
My son got himself a little 50cc scooter at 16 and rode around with the lightest of clothes on. Out riding after a light shower he was breaking to give way and hit a man hole cover and was off, he had slowed down to about 10 mph but his right knee hit the deck and slid a little. He know won't ride without all his gear on, leather armoured jacket, waterproof textile trousers with knee and hip armour and gloves. Problem now is his gear isn't as good as mine. The jacket is my old one so top spec but the gloves are shite and the trousers have no Kevlar so will last miliseconds.
Mickey
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you think its hot riding road bikes???...try off roading in hot weather!! :lol
the last 3 days ive never sweated so much!! on some sections your up on the pegs giving it as much throttle as you dare just to get some air rushing against your body....and when you get stuck.......oh boy..thats hard work :'( (Fook knows how people cross deserts e.t.c )
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I always wear gloves and a textile or leather jacket.
If the weather is cold or wet, Jeans and textile trousers, if it is warm, leather trousers and if it is hot, just jeans but you feel a lot more vulnerable.
On my feet it is nearly always boots.
Having just got back from Turkey I saw most people rode in just t-shirts and shorts or trousers (no jeans, gloves or helmets) but then almost all the bikes I saw were mopeds. The odd big bike I saw was German and the riders were fully kitted out apart from one of the dive instructors who wore a tshirt, shorts and flip flops (he did have a helmet though) to ride home on his TDM.
It was 40+ degrees there though so I went for the aircon'd car instead.
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Its about acceptable risk. We each make a choice to live with a personal acceptable level of risk. Some people think we are idiots to even climb on motorcycles in the first place, but we choose to do so and we accept the risk. Some riders are prepared to accept more risk than others.
The danger comes in when people don't understand and end up taking on more risk than they would otherwise be happy to accept.
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It's a personal choice thing like others have said.
I'd much rather ride sedately lidless in shorts and flip flops. :smokin
Than wrap myself around a tree or a car on a bend feeling invincible in all the gear, and end up wondering why the skid pan strapped to my back and the leathers and helmet didn't stop my spline rupturing, brain being turned to the consistency of scrambled egg, and my ribs puncturing my lungs :deal
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It was 40+ degrees there though so I went for the aircon'd car instead.
I would too, theres too cold for riding bikes and too hot.
I went to Brno WSB in 2010 and it was stupid hot, time on the bike was 7-11am and 6pm-9pm with nice open air pools in between riding.
I fell off at trackday once and got my foot caught under the bike. It wore through the boot and skin on my ankle in fairly quick time. I shudder to think what a mess it would have been if I had been wearing trainers or flip flops. Each to their own.
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I've said it before but it's all about choice, if i want to ride semi naked that's my choice
I don't disagree in the slightest.
I'm against compulsion, but I'm all for *informed* choice and a warning like the photo in my OP (which actually came from Facebook) might actually make a few people think.
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Over here I'm marvelling at people on 'Busas, roaring on the freeway over 90:
* No helmet
* No gloves
* Shorts
* Vest
* Flip-flops
Michigan recently got rid of their helmet laws, as the fat Harley riders tell me with glee. While coming off is never a joke, sliding on your arse, ruining your bike's finish and destroying a couple hundred quids worth of clothing is infinitely preferable to leaving your muscles scraped on the road and getting skin grafts on your face.
Mental.
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chicks dig scars
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I always make sure that I'm wearing my lucky underpants, anything more is a bonus.
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The other day i saw a fella on a newish cb1000 with panniers top box wearing shorts - tee shirt vest - pumps making progress wtf.
Also I can't understand why peeps wear leathers than you look at there feet no boots but trainers, what going on there !!
I always find once moving you cool down a bit and when touring if we stop i try to pull in the shade and would never ride without the correct gear on regardless.
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I do ride lightly clothed in very hot weather but the danger makes me ride exceptionally carefully. There could almost be an argument for it, as it certainly slows you down. On the other hand you never know when shit's gonna happen, and when it strikes it strikes fast, so best to be well protected I suppose.
How to ruin a Saturday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh4VX6OgwXA#ws)
Recently I've been thinking of buying a Ducati, so went on you tube to see what people were saying about them. Came across this which vid makes a good case for wearing full kit.
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Looked a bit painful going into that barrier. See that 3rd guy drop his bike right at the end??
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I've no idea why the first guy lost it actually as that corner looked do-able, I think his foot peg touched down and he panicked? But it just goes to show that it doesn't have to be your mistake that gets you hurt. I love riding in jeans and a T shirt in very hot weather over slow/short distances, but on a fast journey wearing full kit's a no brainer.
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I've no idea why the first guy lost it actually as that corner looked do-able, I think his foot peg touched down and he panicked?
I'd agree. He seems to be trying to get his knee down, but he and the bike are leaning virtually at the same angle and he doesn't seem to be shifting his bum over to keep the centre of gravity down and the bike more upright. Probably he was caught by surprise when he grounded the peg, felt the bike move, grabbed the brakes and just went straight on :(
As for the guy in the background, I think he also tries to anchor up and also goes straight on then skids on the grass.
But it just goes to show that it doesn't have to be your mistake that gets you hurt.
Absolutely.
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one of the dive instructors who wore a tshirt, shorts and flip flops (he did have a helmet though) to ride home on his TDM.
It was 40+ degrees there
I would have worn that same in that heat, just 5 mins in a traffic jam wearing proper clobber would be unhealthy and probably dangerous in 40C. I would have substituted jeans for shorts perhaps but probably resort to shorts after a few days of getting jeans and underpants wringing with sweat (prickly heat around the bollocks is not fun).
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See that 3rd guy drop his bike right at the end??
weird, looks like he just rolled on the grass and fell over.
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to my mind the second rider was getting closer and closer to the rider ahead as the ride progressed. I felt his attention was drifting too, lifting hand off bars, waving , looking around. Left himself with less room for manoeuvre than he could have. I could see the first guy was going to crash,his line was wrong , he was going in too fast .... I would have cut deeper into the corner to avoid the bike which obviously was going to come back on the road.Its typical of group riding dangers, and why I only ride with competant riders. The crash was totally avoidable, I also felt they were not slowing down at all for the bends, not looking through the corner and picking the right apex. Just barrelling in, and lo...corner was overcooked. Sadly its inexperienced riding at fault.A hard lesson to learn...
With regards to clothing ...what we all should remember is just how quickly our bikes can accelerate, so even going out in thin clothing with the firm intention of just bimbling, its just seconds of throttle to get to big speeds where an off will result in gravel rash. I have crashed in jeans at 70/80 mph, and they offer no protection at all . My minimum wear for the last 10 yrs or so has been good textiles( armoured) or a draggin type jean.Normal wear is leather jeans with knee sliders ( extra protection! ).My theory is, if its too hot to feel comfy , then dont ride...
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My theory is, if its too hot to feel comfy , then dont ride...
I'm not keen on that theory Pitternator, those are exactly the sort of days I feel like going for a ride! :lol
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Yup, and unfortunately the last couple of days I have lost count of the amount of idiots riding without even basic protection or GLOVES! It may be hot when I'm getting ready to go out but as soon as I start moving all is well. Have found the best base layer stuff for me is some cheap Hi Gear stuff from go outdoors.
Real men don't need petty protection! ARRRR!
(http://www.motomanijaci.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9700.0;attach=53246;image)
(http://www.monomaniacs.com/index.php?action-detach;topic=9700.0;attach=53246;image)
When it's 39 degrees centigrade IN THE SHADE, with high humidity, I wear short pants and shirt. Gloves and helmet yes... most of the time.
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I suppose it comes down to this.... Its your life so if you choose to ride without correct gear then don't start crying if you get hurt following an off. My personal choice is to wear the best i can afford and feel safe in, if its too hot then go later in the day or not at all.
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two points to be made here.
just got back from abroad where it was 40+. nipping 2 miles into town didn't warrant getting togged up. it was a risk i was prepared to take, and with SWMBO on the back as well it meant i made mother theresa look like a hells angel with my standard of driving. it's all about mitigating the risk, the more gear we have on the safer we feel (didn't stop me showing off when solo though!).
re the video, you can see that he's
a) riding for the camera
b) carrying too much entry and getting his apexes wrong
c) not hanging off enough, it seems that he felt he wasn't going to make it and didn't have any more lean left!
d) used the front instead of the rear brake
and the camera man target fixated at the crash, and the guy at the back had his front wheel on the road and back on the gravel, hence why the back came round on him.
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if its too hot then go later in the day or not at all.
Not useful advice if you live in Thailand where it's 35C most of the time with mental humidity.
Wearing too much clothing in those conditions will affect your skills and judgement when you (very quickly) start to overheat and moreover, you won't notice your riding is getting worse.
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or a draggin type jean.
How good are they vs armoured textile trousers? Also are they all much the same or do you get what you pay for? Prices seem to vary from about £60 up to well over £200.
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When Ride magazine did a product test on bike jeans Draggin came out top with a full 5 seconds of abrasion resistance.
Others fared poorly considering they were sold as specifically for use on bikes, with the worst (I forget who) lasting less than a second before failing. From that test I drew the conclusion that Draggin's did what they are supposed to do although others costing a similar amount didn't,. So not really a case of 'get what you pay for' but that it's possible to pay a Draggins type money but not get the same level of protection.
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When it gets hot and humid, I just wear ordinary jeans and try and keep the speed down. Just on my short commute to work that is (7 miles mostly open road)
Jeans and T-Shirt if I just wanna pop down town and just take my time. Having to wear a helmet at times is a pain, but I suppose you got to cos it's the darn law.
When I was cycling I used to hit over 50mph at times going down hill, wearing lycra shorts and a T-shirt, with a wee bit o polystyrene on ma heid, used to overtake the cars.
Guys in that video are getting right down to peg scraping, no room for error. If you wanna use knee sliders, try a race track. Also they don't seem to backing off to take into account of cars coming the other way, and the barrier on the right which does have the potential to tear a limb off. Second guy too close too quick to react. The guy at the back drops for no good reason, other than he's shit his pants at all the carnage suddenly in front of him. Of course it's also easy to sit back and criticize. I sure don't claim to be an angle or riding god!
Perhaps more a good example of how wearing fancy gear gives you a false sense of security? I'll bet that hurt.
Hope they were all OK.
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I can't imagine not wearing a helmet. I used an openface one day and got a wasp down the side eventually stinging my ear and another one splat me between the eyes. the bike was dropped as i got off double quick trying to take lid off before the sting. My ear then swelled up and i couldn't put(or wanted to) my lid back on. Full face all the time now?
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I can't imagine not wearing a helmet. I used an openface one day and got a wasp down the side eventually stinging my ear and another one splat me between the eyes. the bike was dropped as i got off double quick trying to take lid off before the sting. My ear then swelled up and i couldn't put(or wanted to) my lid back on. Full face all the time now?
Sorry, but I laughed out loud at this...
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That's ok Phil, i still chuckle when thinking about it, i'm a big jessy when it comes to Bee stings and my mate Pee'd in his leathers laughing at my predicament.
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When Ride magazine did a product test on bike jeans Draggin came out top with a full 5 seconds of abrasion resistance.
Nicked from another forum:
From RiDE mag, November 2011. Purely abrasion resistance tests performed by SATRA ([url]http://www.satra.co.uk/[/url]), with no armour inserts fitted. They don't specify a simulated road speed, just the relative times to wear through the trousers. Average times are shown, the article has details for knee / thigh / arse times:
Hein Gericke Reno leather jeans: 4.74 seconds
Draggin' Biker kevlar jeans: 3.07 seconds
Hornee kevlar jeans: 1.39 seconds
Rev'it Sand textile trousers: 0.71 seconds
Levi stonewash 501s: 0.56 seconds
Tesco Cherokee jeans: 0.16 seconds
So even a budget pair of fairly fashiony leather trousers ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&catId=131090&item=300759021100[/url]) (£100) offers better protection than premium kevlar jeans ([url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008ELNO2S/[/url]) (£150), or the fancy Rev'it pants (£190). Those Rev'it BMW-bait "Adventure" trousers are shockingly poor for the price, although the adverts for them don't make much mention of what they're made of - I'd have preferred to see some more testing of budget cordura trousers ([url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0080Q18DY/[/url]).
And no surprises, denim-only jeans are the chocolate teapot of protection. Yes, a £40 pair of Levis does offer better protection than Tesco budget tat, but either way you'll be surfing on your skin within a few yards when you come off. Enjoy having the gravel scraped out of your arse with a wire brush and Dettol at A&E. ([url]http://cdn.bikechatforums.com/images/smiles/thumb_up.gif[/url])([url]http://cdn.bikechatforums.com/images/smiles/dead.gif[/url])([url]http://cdn.bikechatforums.com/images/smiles/thumb_up.gif[/url])
Surprised at how bad the textiles came out :eek
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Interesting. I don't know what month the mag I had was, in fact I've only just binned it, but there were no leather jeans on test just textile.
Hein Gericke (despite their current uk difficulties) have from my experience always produced a quality bit of kit though, as do Triumph. My riding gear is a combination of bits from Hein Gericke, Triumph, Shoei, Alt-Berg and draggin jeans. I note what you say about cheap leather being more protective than expensive expensive textile, but if wearing leather at all the benefits of cooler temps are lost so you might as well just wear decent leather in the first place?
Thinking out loud - I wonder how long you actually bounce down the road from say a 40mph get off? i.e. what degree of exposure does each body part get to abrasion? In those circumstances 5 seconds is a long time so I'd guess you would have come to a halt within that time. What they don't tell you is that textile material often rides up thus exposing flesh anyway, whereas leather fits closely and stays put.
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Came off today after some dozy woman decided to drive straight into the side of me (she was coming the other way, turning off to her right) and my textile trousers have holes in them after going down at around 20mph :s Hate to think what would've happened if I'd been going faster. Maybe time to invest in some leathers.
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Oh dear :eek I hope you are ok and not too much damage done. I wear textiles and keep looking at leathers but don't want to get robbed but equally don't want to waste money on rubbish. It's a bit of a dilemma :\
Andy
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my textile trousers have holes in them after going down at around 20mph
Have they actually gone right through? AIUI the upper layers of textile gear are designed to shred in those situations to absorb the damage and increase friction to stop you sliding whilst the underlayer keeps your skin away from the tarmac.
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my textile trousers have holes in them after going down at around 20mph
Have they actually gone right through? AIUI the upper layers of textile gear are designed to shred in those situations to absorb the damage and increase friction to stop you sliding whilst the underlayer keeps your skin away from the tarmac.
It's not gone right through, if what you say is true then that makes sense :) They'll be replaced either way courtesy of car drivers insurance :)
As for damage, 6 stitches in my leg from where the bike landed on it, snapped brake lever and a bent footpeg. It also snapped a bit off the faring. Nothing particularly major but I should get a loan bike in a couple of days.
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From what I understand the benefits of leather are firstly greater abrasion resistance, and secondly should you break a bone then leather tends to hold the broken bit in place until you receive treatment. The downside of leather is of course that it is uncomfortably hot in hot climates, and soaks up water in cool ones.
I try to avoid riding in bad weather these days (yeh right :rolleyes ) so I alternate between leather or draggin jeans for dry use, textile for wet. So in that respect the weather influences what I wear more than any safety consideration.
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Interesting. I don't know what month the mag I had was, in fact I've only just binned it, but there were no leather jeans on test just textile.
Hein Gericke (despite their current uk difficulties) have from my experience always produced a quality bit of kit though, as do Triumph. My riding gear is a combination of bits from Hein Gericke, Triumph, Shoei, Alt-Berg and draggin jeans. I note what you say about cheap leather being more protective than expensive expensive textile, but if wearing leather at all the benefits of cooler temps are lost so you might as well just wear decent leather in the first place?
Thinking out loud - I wonder how long you actually bounce down the road from say a 40mph get off? i.e. what degree of exposure does each body part get to abrasion? In those circumstances 5 seconds is a long time so I'd guess you would have come to a halt within that time. What they don't tell you is that textile material often rides up thus exposing flesh anyway, whereas leather fits closely and stays put.
I came off at 50mph.
Helmet - scratched visor
jacket - right hand side damaged
leather jeans - unmarked.
boots - toes scuffed out.
gloves - holed through (no damage to hands)
not sure how long I was planked for - seemed a long time but should only have been about 4 - 5 seconds.
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That's still a long time to be sliding along on your arse!