old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Farjo on 10 August 2012, 01:51:18 pm
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FZS600 2003, ~75k miles, various dints and scratches to match the miles.
Long story short, 2 of the exhaust studs have snapped. A kind mechanic from York Suzuki rode to my place to take a look and says that because of the position of the studs (i.e behind the frame) it would be costly to fix as the engine will have to be removed to get at them - he said he wouldn't quote for the job as he felt the bike wasn't worth the money.
And to be fair, because I have no garage and the bike is kept under a cover, it has deteriorated over the past couple of years, and from a quick gander the front forks will certainly need replacing. This is on top of a new exhaust system. So all in all repair will cost more than the value of the bike.
So what are my options here? I think they are:
Try and sell it, pick-up only - can't imagine getting much for it.
Sell it for scrap to a broker - again can't imagine getting much.
Breaking it myself - a bit of hastle, but educational. Not sure what I would do with the shell (i.e. wheels, frame and engine) when finished.
Any (constructive) suggestions?
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Replacement engine, Deefer possibly has one? £200-300 +fitting
Failing that, ebay is your friend although you'll trip up over unsold stuff.....
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Breaking is the money maker, but also long winded, time consuming, and you need storage space, which it sounds like you don't have.
I s'pose the general overall condition of the bike is a big factor as well, in terms of wanting to keep it, and by the sounds of it it's in need a a bit of work.
So, realistically, i'd be inclined to be in favour of selling it privately, there's bound to be someone who'll have it as a project who probably has a nice warm work shop to play in.
It's a shame when things like this happen, i have a friend with a car in a similar situation, every time he paid to get one thing fixed another thing would go wrong, then after spending a fortune on it something really bad went wrong, but because he's spent so much money on the other things he doesn't wanna give in, although it's now not financially viable to carry on. :'(
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Ta for you posts.
Kebab, I think the maths rule out this option:
Replacement engine + replacement exhaust system + replacement forks + fitting for all vs. value of 03 bike with 70k on clock - I think the former will be higher than the latter.
darsi, thanks for the suggestion, will scan the market to see what else is being sold in this condition.
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if you can take engine out and bring it to an engineers workshop I'm sure the studs could be removed at very reasonable price and then keep an eye on ebay for an exhaust and forks you might get lucky. are the forks pitted or bent?
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"if you can take engine out and bring it to an engineers workshop" I think this would be difficult without lifting equipment? Presumably one cannot just lift it out?
The forks have bits of rust but the seals look knackered.
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Why do you need to take the engine out? Surely all you need to do is remove the cylinder head. I had the same happen with my VFR, snapped exhaust studs. Local engineering firm sorted it for about fifteen quid.
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With 2 broken studs being an engine out job, and 75k miles, I'd be contemplating an engine re-build while its out, and if forks need doing, they can be removed and taken to a workshop if necessary.
Don't know how handy you are with the spanners (or if your bike is daily transport), but if you have a mate with a garage you could try asking them, or some local authorities / housing associations / lettings agents may have garages available for a nominal fee.
It really depends on how much you want to keep (or sell) the bike.
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where abouts are you from?i persume york area from what you say in your post?im only in hull and if you need help getting engine out and drill/tap/helicoil etc let me know,i had to do 2 studs on my 600 but luckly i could do them with engine in bike but had to drop forks etc out to get good access,depending on condition of forks i can help you rebuild them etc if it just oil seals etc
if the engine is still good and you like the bike in my opinion its worth doing
let me know if i can help and il do my best
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i'd just get a new engine mate, they are plentiful on ebay...
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It's probably worth more in bits than you think. You seem to have discounted the possibility of selling the engine, but to someone with a disintegrating second gear it could be quite useful (assuming your engine/gearbox is basically sound). :)
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Ben, will look into that ta.
Adie, I'm not too handy with spanners tbh so it's all chargable labour.
Mark that's very generous. Maybe it's best if I take some pictures later when the sun's out so you can see what I'm on about i.e. that the bike may not be worth the effort.
Fazerider - that's a good point; yes the engine and gearbox are basically sound.
Thanks for the replies :)
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yea some pics would be good but the offer of help is there if you need /want it,if you do decide to break/sell it i might be interested in some parts but end of day its your decision,dont just take to scrap yard or 'sell' to a bike breakers as they will rip you off,mark
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If you do end up breaking it, I'm certainly interested in grabbing a part from you :) But it would be a shame - hopefully you can get it going again for not too much, the more Fazers the better ;)
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have you got a hugger or bellypan to sell?
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Blimey, jump in his grave why don't you!!
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
OK Mark, will take some pictures after this cup of tea :)
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Left side of engine:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee230/Farjo/Bike/IMG_2491_sm.jpg)
Left fork rust:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee230/Farjo/Bike/IMG_2494_sm.jpg)
Right fork seal:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee230/Farjo/Bike/IMG_2495_sm.jpg)
Left fork seal:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee230/Farjo/Bike/IMG_2499_sm.jpg)
Right side of engine:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee230/Farjo/Bike/IMG_2502_sm.jpg)
As shown it's all knocking on a bit, but what do you think?
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i'm thinking of changing my name to vulture :D
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Looks in fairly good condition to me. The crash bars have taken most of the beating which is good. For the most part, just some TLC over a weekend could make it sparkle from I can see...
Obviously, the forks appear to need the most attention but I wouldn't consider them a lost cause.
If you want to feel better, I can post some pictures of the rust on my car ;)
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bike doest look at all bad for the milage you have done,the exhaust studs can be done easyish the forks do look a little worse for wear but that again can be sorted,would be a real shame to scrap/break it so lets get it back on the road and get you using it again
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Well thanks very much - I'm not going to say no! Am off to bed but will pick this up in the morning.
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that looks salvageable IMO.
What you've described as the fork seals are the dust seals that sit above the fork seals and are an easy fix.
My engine looked worse than that when I bought it and now looks great. Plain black gloss and its holding up to the temperature and the weather. Simple case of getting the crap and flaking paint off and it'll look brill afterwards.
Your fork stansions do look a lost cause tho, e-bay is gonna be your friend Im afraid. I've got later forks on mine with the preload adjusters on the tops, again a result of pitted chrome.
Your exhaust studs depend of how involved you want to make it. I'd just take the head off and get it to an engineering firm. Even if you take the engine out you're still gonna have the strip it anyway so why do all the extra hassle of engine removal. Just my 2p but GL whichever you go
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why does the head have to be removed to do the studs?i had 3 snapped ones on mine and drill and tapped them out with engine in bike(luckly they wernt hidden behind frame) all i did was remove foks etc to get easyer access to them so with engine on a bench it will be a breeze
is there anyone else in the york area that can help out get the bike done even if its just doing simple things or pair of hands to lift engine etc?
il do all i can to help if im wanted but more hands make things easyer
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forks can be re-chromed but prob cheaper to go second hand,easy to swap for newbie with aid of haynes manual and a good forum ;) ;) ;) ...do you have any pics of the broken studs ? and a pic of complete bike :)
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stanchions are about 100 quid each depends if you want them silver or black or gold, try allbike engineering in greenwich london,or phillpots in luton will rechrome them they did my exup ones years ago,they also do brake calipersand pistons,
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Thanks for all the replies :)
Mark, what else apart from a bench will I need - best assume I have no equipment. Would it be easier if I hire a van and drive it to Hull? If not, how many people would it need to take the engine out and I'll ask at work.
Right, am off for an 8 mile run (or a 4 mile run and a taxi ride) :(
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Long story short, 2 of the exhaust studs have snapped. A kind mechanic from York Suzuki rode to my place to take a look and says that because of the position of the studs (i.e behind the frame) it would be costly to fix as the engine will have to be removed
Sounds like an engine out to me or head off to me ....
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if you can get it over to hull that be the easy way as iv got all the tools here but i could bring some to you,to do exhaust studs we need(min!)good socket set,spaners etc etc(i can bring these)drill and good sharp drill bits (hss) and taps,i have all of these but not sure how much i can fit onto my bike ! iv not pulled an engine out of fazer but done others and cant see why 2 of us cant lift it out ,it doesnt need to be on a bench to do studs but better on the back and arse than it been on floor!
the more you can do to get it ready to pull out the better ie removing as much as possible ,do you have somewhere to work undercover?
as for the forks you would need to get the bits before i can do them but id concentrate on one job at a time! i might be free next sat but at cadwell on sunday if thats any good? it would cost you good money to hire van to come to hull but if you can beg/borrow one then that be good otherwise think be better at yours? have you got use of a trolly jack to assist removal? mark
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Was at work yesterday afternoon / evening and again all day today (13 hour shift). I haven't got any of the things you mention. Day off tomorrow so will look around for vans / ramps / hire equipment and see what's available.
Sorry am working Sat and Sun this weekend but am free the weekend after, and various days in between.
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13 hour shift are not good for you! iv got most tools so see what we can work out,no probs about sat,im at work in week (mon to fri) i might be free one day the next weekend but will have to check if thats ok
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We get 3 or 4 breaks through the day so it's not so bad, and it means we work fewer days for the same number of hours.
"The more you can do to get it ready to pull out the better ie removing as much as possible" - as shown in the pics the downpipes are still on - shall I have a go with the other studs? How much time and effort is it to fix each snapped stud i.e. do I have to be super carefull to get the last of the nuts off?
I assume I'll need more studs - if so I'll get stainless ones off of ebay.
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leave the exhaust on so you done break any more,if you can wire brush or similar areound the nuts and spray wd40 or something that will help but il bring blow torch etc to hopefully remove the others without snapping,each one i did took nearly a hour but the engine was in bike so pain to get to!
you of course need new studs and maybe gaskets ? while bike is in bits do you want do owt else like plugs,filters,etc you will need new coolant
even if you remove tank,chain and maybe some bolts etc it all makes it but easyer for me but if you havnt tools dont botch it or mess it up as will take longer to do then!
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Better than WD40, is a proper penetrating oil such as Plus gas, WD also do one, black and orange cannister from memory...
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Heyhey,
First post here - and in true vulture style ;)
If you do end up breaking down the fazer - dibs on the carb inlet rubbers. Mine are cracked and although its probably an age before they properly crack right through, I want a spare set at the ready.
PM me with a price and lets get going:)
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If you are gonna use stainless studs you MUST use copper grease when fitting, otherwise they will weld themselves to the alloy engine, especially as that's probably the hottest place on the whole bike.
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Penetrating oil: I used Stuk Professional Penetrating Oil on the ones I tried before (with mixed results :rolleyes ) and I'll start again, doing it daily from now on.
(http://www.stukproducts.com/products/APO400R.jpg)
Gaskets: I assume you mean these?: http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer_sp/02-03/picture/exhaust_gasket_front_-_aluminium_fibre/ (http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer_sp/02-03/picture/exhaust_gasket_front_-_aluminium_fibre/)
(they also do copper ones)
Dust seals: http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer_sp/02-03/picture/fork_dust_seals_pair/ (http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer_sp/02-03/picture/fork_dust_seals_pair/)
Is this all I need? Will I need new fork oil or fork oil seals?
Mark do you live near Hull rail station or a bus route from there? If so it would be cheap to hire a van midweek, drop the bike off then train it over to yours at whichever weekend to work on it. Would you have the space?
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i would leave the forks for now as it sounds and looks like better forks be a better option than just doing the seals etc but realy upto you what you want to do with the forks. iv got room outside i can have bike and can get a bit of room in garage to work on engine,forks etc,there is a bus stop 2mins walk and that goes stright to town centre where there is a train station but the van hire and then bus /train wont be cheap,have you got room we can work on bike?if so i can bring tools and if needed bring engine or forks home maybe? depending on how much of a rush you are to get it back on road we could get exhaust studs done,engine back in bike then you sorce forks out or do them at later date? mark
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if you're on a tight budget you might get away with using the forks that are on the bike because the rust spots seem quite high up and the fork isn't leaking so the rust spots must not be interfering with the seal.
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Forks: :thumbup I guess if we got it going I could enjoy the Indian summer we'll hopefully have, then send them away to be fixed in the autumn.
Mark I'm just the oily rag so if you say you'll be OK to work here then that's fine with me. There's nowhere covered to work here just the block's car park. There's room just no equipment.
There's a tool hire place nearby that does an engine hoist (see below) - would it be useful or totally useless for a motorbike engine?
(http://www.lsetoolhire.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/engine-hoist.jpg)
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fargo im happy to come there and will save you heaps on van hire etc etc just need a dry day/s then! i dont think we need an engine hoist as altho there heavish there not like a car lump! if you can get an extra pair of hands for the lift out then that be good if needed,can you take a photo of the broken studs to show which ones they are or tell me which they are ,cheers mark
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OK, here it is. I've asked a chap at work who says that he'll come over if he's not working, and there's another guy I can ask. Will put up a picture maybe Sunday (am working most of this weekend).
Not sure if I explained properly, but the reason I was taking the bolts off was that the collars snapped so I need new downpipes and will be ordering these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130748989381 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130748989381) They seem to have a good reputation on this site and easy to fit.
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ps To all those that have posted and PM'd me about breaking the bike, if I decide on this route I will start a new topic to give everyone a fair chance :thumbup
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fargo pics be great,hope we can get your bike fixed and you dont break it but if you are thinking of going that route let me know before i give up a couple of days tryinng to fix her up!
and to all you vultures out there wanting parts how about giving some time up and get the bike fixed not scrapped!
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No I am not thinking of breaking :thumbup
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I would come and help - but you are some 250 miles away from me :P
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thanks i know not everyone is close ish it only around an hour for me so not too bad im sure we will get farjo up and running in no time just got to fix a date to go over
I would come and help - but you are some 250 miles away from me :P
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Just took pictures but they are mostly blurred or ill lit; this is the only one that you can see anything. This stud is pretty flat to the surrounding surface but the other one has a bit sticking out. They are the two middle ones i.e. studs 4 and 5.
I will have another go with the camera if the sun comes out.