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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Bracechenko on 07 August 2012, 09:31:18 pm
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As soon as i have i mentioned that im going to sell my FZS600 it has developed a sudden misfire. I was having a hoot on it yesterday scrubbing in a new front tyre but i needed to fill up. So, engine off, buy some fuel but when i restart it, it's only running on 3 cylinders.
Plugs are new, all leads are checked and connected properly. I'm thinking that the coil pack has gone kaput maybe? How do i check these things and any other ideas?
Cheers
Brace :)
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possible...heart attack!!!!!....she heard you talking about getting rid????? :'( .......i would do the hand on exhaust chk first to make sure of which cylinder is down?...then whip plug out and chk it?....even though you have new ones ? could just be one duff??....other thing could be water in fuel?...you just filled her up didnt you??? :rolleyes
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possible...heart attack!!!!!....she heard you talking about getting rid????? :'( .......i would do the hand on exhaust chk first to make sure of which cylinder is down?...then whip plug out and chk it?....even though you have new ones ? could just be one duff??....other thing could be water in fuel?...you just filled her up didnt you??? :rolleyes
Its cylinder 4 but the plug is fine. I thought about the fuel too but it was misfiring immediately so the new fuel wouldnt have reached the engine yet as it would still be using the fuel in the carbs, tubes etc
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wouldnt have thought it was the coils?....chk for spark with plug out on side of engine?...if no spark?..then try trimming the wire to cap as others on here have done?..had good results apparently?....and if still no spark?..swap plugs over just to rule that number 4 out!!....
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another possibility brace"...could you have run that low on fuel that you,v dragged sum shit out btm of tank and blocked a jet mabe?? :rolleyes ...poss best to drain carbs off to see what you get out of them?.....
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another possibility brace"...could you have run that low on fuel that you,v dragged sum shit out btm of tank and blocked a jet mabe?? :rolleyes ...poss best to drain carbs off to see what you get out of them?.....
Anything is possible i guess? It still had a few litres left tho. I'll check the spark as you suggested first and go from there. Why would you not think the coils though, im sure others have had packs fail?
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you have got two coils on your bike,each coil running two cylinders,if the coil was faulty the bike would run on two cylinders,as crh has already said check the plugs one at a time by resting on the head and turning over engine and also the ends of ht leads tend to harden with age,a trim solves this as already said,another one to check is plug caps if they have not been changed for a while it might be worth replacing with new,not expensive....let us know how you get on :)
l
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you have got two coils on your bike,each coil running two cylinders,if the coil was faulty the bike would run on two cylinders,as crh has already said check the plugs one at a time by resting on the head and turning over engine and also the ends of ht leads tend to harden with age,a trim solves this as already said,another one to check is plug caps if they have not been changed for a while it might be worth replacing with new,not expensive....let us know how you get on :)
l
......AS ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Excellent - cheers guys.
Just to double check though, i'll have the plug out of the engine but attached to the plug cap and i'll rest the plug on top of the engine and see if it sparks right? I don't need to ark from the plug to the engine at all, it's just to see if it arks across the gap on the plug yeah?
Sorry to be a numpty but sparks scare me! :'(
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yes brace!....that will chk out the lead....i would also swap over number 4, to number 1 spark plug? just to make sure it isnt a faulty one?.... ;)
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Cheers bud :thumbup
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Just a quickie on trimming the HT lead into the spark plug cap, does the spark plug cap screw onto the cable or is there something else need doing?
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it is poss that under pressure a spa
a faulty spark plug may still show a sprk when earthed to the engine?...but could also have a weak spark under pressure!!,..ie, when back in engine!! ;) ....hence why i suggested swapping them over?....
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Just a quickie on trimming the HT lead into the spark plug cap, does the spark plug cap screw onto the cable or is there something else need doing?
.....yes mate!!! ....just trim bt ...10 ml off should be fine!!........they sealed to coil so cant be removed from there!!!!! there are jointers for ht leads available?...but i wouldnt recomend them as they trap moisture in and cause all sorts of probs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes
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Just a quickie on trimming the HT lead into the spark plug cap, does the spark plug cap screw onto the cable or is there something else need doing?
yes thats right ...just screws on/off....not to tight or it will just spin,gentle pressure and you will be ok :)
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Nothing wrong with my ignition system but might try this with new plug caps anyway on the next service where I'll be replacing the plugs. The bikes 10 yrs old so bound to be a bit of corrosion built up, or am I going to give myself problems!
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ime a firm believer of if its not bust leave alone!!!!but you could allways just whip one off and chk it?....mines a 02 600 and not had any probs yet?? :rolleyes ...but then again its only done....6200 miles
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Ok, so an update....
I have tested the plugs, caps and leads and i tHink all is ok there. I was confused for a while as sometimes i got a spark and then sometimes i wouldnt but i realise now that the plug needs to rest close enough to the engine to create a circuit for it to spark right?
Anyway, ive now tested all 4 plugs and have seen a spark on all of them. So, whats next? Fuelling i guess yeah, what do i start?
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When my old FZS600 did the exact same thing as yours it turned out to be a hairline crack in one of the plug caps - replaced with NGK ones and it fixed my issue
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When my old FZS600 did the exact same thing as yours it turned out to be a hairline crack in one of the plug caps - replaced with NGK ones and it fixed my issue
I've got the NGK ones and i've done lots of combination of plugs/caps and all 4 are in working order......good shout though :thumbup
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If it's not electrical, a good next step would be to run the engine for a moment (or at least try to) then whip the plug out.
If it doesn't smell of fuel it's not getting enough which would suggest a blocked jet or supply pipe.
On the other hand, if it's soaked in fuel that would point to a stuck float, duff choke plunger or a jet that's way out of adjustment.
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If it's not electrical, a good next step would be to run the engine for a moment (or at least try to) then whip the plug out.
If it doesn't smell of fuel it's not getting enough which would suggest a blocked jet or supply pipe.
On the other hand, if it's soaked in fuel that would point to a stuck float, duff choke plunger or a jet that's way out of adjustment.
yes as above.....its either sparks or fuel.....when was the last time the carbs were cleaned / balanced ;)
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If it's not electrical, a good next step would be to run the engine for a moment (or at least try to) then whip the plug out.
If it doesn't smell of fuel it's not getting enough which would suggest a blocked jet or supply pipe.
On the other hand, if it's soaked in fuel that would point to a stuck float, duff choke plunger or a jet that's way out of adjustment.
yes as above.....its either sparks or fuel.....when was the last time the carbs were cleaned / balanced ;)
The carbs were balanced 2 mths ago but i've not cleaned them before. However, the bike has been used daily and hasn't sat for any length of time.
The way it happened so abrubtly (ie, bike runs fine, fill with petrol and start on 3 cylinders) makes me think that it was an ignition failure or some crap blocking something. Guess it's likely the crap now so i'll start investigating when I get time
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try draining the carbs and see what you get......quick and easy to do and might give you a clue ;)
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try draining the carbs and see what you get......quick and easy to do and might give you a clue ;)
Little screws at the bottom of the carbs yeah?
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thats the ones :D
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Ok so those screws are seized solid and started to round so i cant drain the carbs. I did notice today though that on turning on the ignition i didnt hear the fuel pump clicking like i normslly would do after a few days standing still. Maybe thats because the fuel was fully primed whilst i was checking the plugs on thursday? Fuel pump maybe?
On a separate note, does anyone have a diagram of which HT lead goes to which plug? 1 and 2 are fine but ive lost the numbers for the other 2 and dont know if i have it right!
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Believe me, you will know straight away if you have your HT leads crossed over, and so will your neighbours, i've done that myself before :lol
Can someone be a bit more descriptive on draining the carbs please as it's something that i've never done before but it was suggested to me to do the other day? :rolleyes
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Ht lead order now correct. Anyone fancy a stab at my fuel pump question?
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chk the filter brace!....very rare for fuel pump to pack up!! and i think it wouldnt run at all if that was down??....and like you say it appears to just be one cylinder down!!! :rolleyes
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chk the filter brace!....very rare for fuel pump to pack up!! and i think it wouldnt run at all if that was down??....and like you say it appears to just be one cylinder down!!! :rolleyes
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that it doesnt run at all now! I'll check the filter but shouldnt i always hear the fuel pump click when turning on the ignition if its been left for a day or so?
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well?....yes! try leaving ig on and tapping it? ....mabe just sticking or bad connection ...or if it is foooked?...then ebay!!!! :rolleyes
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just a thought???????.....you have put your ...kill switch to ..run havnt you!!!!!!!!! cus that will stop pump running!! ;)
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ah........so its not working at all now :rolleyes are you still getting a spark at the plugs ;)
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just a thought???????.....you have put your ...kill switch to ..run havnt you!!!!!!!!! cus that will stop pump running!! ;)
you might be able to bypass the pump and let good old isaac help you out with that gravity thing he invented,take the two tubes off the pump and join them together,should work,if it runs you have a problem with the pump,try crh`s tip first by tapping the pump ;) [size=78%] [/size]
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Still got a spark and will give the pump a whack tomoz whilst checking the kill switch! Need to sort it as my shiney FZ1 is clocking some grubby and boring commuter miles :'(
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......bugger!!! :rollin
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Just quickly checked the kill switch and its fine. Tapped the pump lightly with a screwdriver but no change. I'll still take a closer look tomoz tho, so annoying!
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mabe reds suggestion of linking pipes and letting gravity do its job would be worth a try brace?? ;) .....
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mabe reds suggestion of linking pipes and letting gravity do its job would be worth a try brace?? ;) .....
I'll give it a shot but wouldnt it need pressure to fill up the carb bowls? Ah well, i'll try it tomoz anyway :)
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no mate!!....inlet manifold vacuum will sort that out!! as you crank it will suck it through!!
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no mate!!....inlet manifold vacuum will sort that out!! as you crank it will suck it through!!
:thumbup
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no mate!!....inlet manifold vacuum will sort that out!! as you crank it will suck it through!!
:thumbup
back in the good old days of my youth,with bikes that are now called "japanees classics"you would`nt have a pump just gravity, tank on top of carbs and as crh has already said the vacuum generated from induction should be enough,not saying run it like that just a test to see if pump is faulty ;) [size=78%] [/size]
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Ok an update....
The tank is off and i've removed the in and out fuel hoses from the fuel pump. Now, am i right in thinking that if i turn on the ignition with the bike as it is, the fuel pump should try to pump fuel yeah?
I ask because that's exactly what i did and it didnt do anything at all. The next step is to bypass the pump and see if the bike runs i know but if my understanding is correct, hasnt this already proved that the pump is faulty?
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Could this be a separate issue that has surfaced? If the fuel pump was knackered you wouldn't get one cylinder firing let alone 3, right?
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Could this be a separate issue that has surfaced? If the fuel pump was knackered you wouldn't get one cylinder firing let alone 3, right?
See
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that it doesnt run at all now! I'll check the filter but shouldnt i always hear the fuel pump click when turning on the ignition if its been left for a day or so?
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As Rich has pointed out, no cylinders fire at all. So, am i right in my thinking that the pump should spin if it wasnt faulty?
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the fuel pump could still be ok?.....you also have a fuel pump relay"....that could have gone down??...thats located under side panel on my foxeye!...thats l/hand sitting on bike!!...should be same on yours ide think?.....
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How do I check if it's the relay or do I just Gabe to replace to know. I don't have a multimeter :-(
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Yes I think so - unless it's already got back pressure from the carbs, so that it thinks the float bowls are full (in the way that it doesn't click away when you turn the ignition straight back on after switching off).
But having just read your post again properly :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes I see you've taken pipes of both sides - so yes, I would have thought it should be clicking like a clicky thing.
There's a 2nd hand pump on fleabay for 40 notes, which seems like a lot, but they're asking 80 for new ones :eek :eek :eek
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How do I check if it's the relay or do I just Gabe to replace to know. I don't have a multimeter :-(
............right!!....firstly find the relay"..then unplug it and make sure all the contacts are clean..spray wd or whatever you got handy on it?....then plug it back on!!....then switch ignition on and you should here it energise ie click"....if it dont its sus??....if it does then bk to fuel pump???......
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If you can't hear the relay energising, it's worth keeping a finger tip on it - you might feel it moving, if not hear it.
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Ok so i can hear the relay energise so guess the pump is duff. I did bypass the pump in the end and the bike fired up first time so at least we know there's no wider issues.
Thanks for helping me with this peeps, having my commuter bike off the road is annoying. Seems like the pump is at fault so gonna get a replacement pronto :)
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ask on here brace"...someone might just have one they will part with? ;)
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ask on here brace"...someone might just have one they will part with? ;)
Too late, bought a used pump from fleabay now for £30, guaranteed at least :\
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yes thats right...with both pipes removed it should click like crazy it will only stop when the float bowls are full and fuel pressure increaces,as you have disconected both pipes theres no pressure build up so pump will continue ticking.....to test the pump without the relay ,disconect the pump from the loom and run 2 fresh cables straight to the battery this will tell you if the pumps a good un or not.......hope that makes sense :)
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good price that!! :) ........
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oooops...sorry took me a while to write that...sounds like you`ve solved the problem.....let us know how you get on :)
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oooops...sorry took me a while to write that...sounds like you`ve solved the problem.....let us know how you get on :)
Cheers anyway Red :)
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Final update then....
The replacement pump arrived today and looked very clean and in good condition so pleased with that. Fitted it to the bike and it's all now working as it should do so problem solved :D
I've even topped up the oil and set the tyre pressures as i want, cant wait to get the old girl back out on the road!!
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:woot :)
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well done brace :D :D another fazer back on the road :)