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General => General => Topic started by: Buzz on 27 June 2012, 12:07:58 pm

Title: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Buzz on 27 June 2012, 12:07:58 pm

http://www.iam.org.uk/motorcyclist/the-advanced-programme (http://www.iam.org.uk/motorcyclist/the-advanced-programme)

It's £139 but the good thing is that you also get 12 months RAC cover worth £109.  I only passed my test about 3 months ago and could do with some proper "post DAS" training I reckon. 

Will probably do a "BikeSafe" course first though...only £45.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: bigralphie on 27 June 2012, 12:13:15 pm
I would seek out your local group and have a chat before you commit to buying the course , the quaility can vary region to region
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 27 June 2012, 01:06:58 pm
the Bikesafe is well worth the 45 quid as a 'first step' - surprisingly not as 'worthy' as you might imagine with a lot of useful advice i still refer to today some years later.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: dolau on 27 June 2012, 01:34:05 pm
check out which bikesafe it is.... they do 1 hour assessed rides and then 1 and 2 day workshops- it is at these that you really get benefit from riding with them as you have time to build up a relationship with them- I do it every year as a refresher
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 27 June 2012, 03:36:20 pm
ROSPA is another alternative, try looking at Rospasmart http://www.rospasmart.com/navigation/Home.html (http://www.rospasmart.com/navigation/Home.html) and see if there's one in your area.
 
I did all the IAM training but didn't take the test (Doh!) due to personal reasons at the time, now kicking myself...
 
They also organise good ride outs and trips abroad
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 27 June 2012, 05:19:03 pm
I only passed my test about 3 months ago and could do with some proper "post DAS" training I reckon.

Will probably do a "BikeSafe" course first though...only £45.

First let me say I'm glad to hear that (unlike a lot of bikers!) you realise that just because you've passed your Test you don't know everything that there is to know about riding  :thumbup

I joined my local IAM Group, Solent Advanced Motorcyclists because I also realised that I could ride my bike better, but I didn't know how and I recently qualified for my Green Badge.

Just looking back on how I used to ride, I've certainly improved a lot and I'm glad I did it, as it was well worth the time and money, so I'd certainly recommend it.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Skippernick on 27 June 2012, 06:16:51 pm
I only passed my test about 3 months ago and could do with some proper "post DAS" training I reckon.

Will probably do a "BikeSafe" course first though...only £45.

First let me say I'm glad to hear that (unlike a lot of bikers!) you realise that just because you've passed your Test you don't know everything that there is to know about riding  :thumbup

I joined my local IAM Group, Solent Advanced Motorcyclists because I also realised that I could ride my bike better, but I didn't know how and I recently qualified for my Green Badge.

Just looking back on how I used to ride, I've certainly improved a lot and I'm glad I did it, as it was well worth the time and money, so I'd certainly recommend it.


 :agree


Booking my course soon.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 27 June 2012, 06:42:19 pm
One of the most impressive things I learned on the "extracurricular" rides with some of the advanced instructor blokes (not on the IAM observed rides, of course!) was the ability to ride flat out down B roads without using the brakes!  :evil
 
These guys (one on a Ducati, one on a Gixxer), we NOT hanging about
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 27 June 2012, 11:44:42 pm
One of the most impressive things I learned on the "extracurricular" rides with some of the advanced instructor blokes (not on the IAM observed rides, of course!) was the ability to ride flat out down B roads without using the brakes!  :evil

Yep, it's all about observation, positioning and correct gear selection :thumbup
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 28 June 2012, 07:29:00 am
flat out and obeying speed limits dont gel together !
 
to pass yer IAM and Rospa....you cant exceed any speed limits no matter how " open" the road is. IAM is actually all about safety not speed as such.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 28 June 2012, 08:29:51 am
Correct, but there WAS a bit of a bay boy element in the club and we DID go a LITTLE bit over the limit at times!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Buzz on 28 June 2012, 09:29:09 am
I only passed my test about 3 months ago and could do with some proper "post DAS" training I reckon.

Will probably do a "BikeSafe" course first though...only £45.

First let me say I'm glad to hear that (unlike a lot of bikers!) you realise that just because you've passed your Test you don't know everything that there is to know about riding  :thumbup



Passing my test has made me realise I know NOTHING about biking :eek .  Booked on a BikeSafe next week, hopefully that will cure the brown trousers on every corner  :o
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: ddtwelve on 28 June 2012, 10:23:26 am
As a rospa member I can certainly say join only £20 for the year in my club and you get all the books bib etc included but as it's member run thing you have to wait for a tutor but there's ride outs and tutor group ride outs which has helped me a lot while I wait for mine
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Ian-man on 28 June 2012, 05:41:18 pm
Definitely worth doing, I have done my IAM and a bikewise course two years later.

When I did my IAM test we had to stick to posted limits, but on national limits I was to make progress within limits, up to about 80ish.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 28 June 2012, 08:20:36 pm
to pass yer IAM and Rospa....you cant exceed any speed limits no matter how " open" the road is. IAM is actually all about safety not speed as such.

Err, I think you'll find it's about the *appropriate* use of speed, not rigidly sticking to limits!

On my IAM test I did a three vehicle overtake on the A32 during which I may well have exceeded the National Limit (I don't know, I was watching the road and the vehicles I was passing, not looking at the speedo).

The Examiner (a service PC) asked me about the overtake during the debrief, but his concern was simply that I was paying attention to potential hazards, not worrying about how fast I was going.

He was satisified with my replies, so I passed.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 28 June 2012, 08:22:21 pm
The Examiner (a service PC)

*Serving* PC even...

Give us the bloody edit button back!!!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Ian-man on 28 June 2012, 11:53:05 pm
Yup, on my bikewise day I was following the instructor for a few miles doing 90ish on national roads with good vision. Cracking day, basicaly its learning to keep your head up and reading the road ad far as you can see. It's easy to drop your eyes and start looking at what's just in front of you. You have to concentrate to read the potential hazards at the limit of your view.

It's amazing how many motorists just  ride/drive in their comfort zone (doing 36 in a thirtyand forty five in a sixty) and don't actually pay any attention to the posted speeds.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 29 June 2012, 08:19:09 am
interesting....
 
I passed my IAM in 1999, was an observer for 3 years...at no point ever did the IAM badge mean you can exceed speed limits with impunity....I really doubt it will be a credible defence if you do get caught speeding ....Rospa are even more strict than IAM.If anything , my police instructors said its even worse to get caught speeding after doing an IAM, as you " should know better"...
 
appropriate speed in my book doesnt mean " I can break speed limits if I like"..yes on a well thought out overtake, use the acceleration of the machine...but that doesnt mean big speed multi car overtakes are the norm.Speed and risk are bedfellows, greater skill is needed  to use it successfully. IAM doesnt really give one the skills for high speed safe riding.Its something you have to gradually develop in whatever way you can, but so risky to encourage fresh riders to speed without the skills.
 
I do get concerned young / inexperienced riders might think cos they R doing an IAM course it does give them any more rights to speed than others.Even " serving" police can only ride above limits if its on the job. They take their chances with the rest of us on other occasions.
 
The whole ethos of the IAM system is to ride safely and to keep to speed limits.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: ghostbiker on 29 June 2012, 08:27:36 am
I am another +1 for IAM's
I really enjoyed doing my training and got a lot from it even though i have been riding well over 20 years. for me it was about the right speed at the right time. there are times when doing 20 in a 40 etc was the right thing and other times where an overtake was on and 80 in a 60 was fine, but affter the over take it was needed to drop back to the limit. this was for observed rides and the test. on group rides etc they were a little more lax on speeds allowed. but allways you are told to ride well within your limits and speed is NOT the focus of IAM's
but speed dose seem to come when you observe the road better.

I didnt gel with the group as a whole and the social side of it didnt fit me so i did just the training. with the training i took from it what i wanted and ignored what i didnt want.
i would like to do a rospa at some point and there is a local corse near me on road cornering that explores diff ways to take corners and find what suites you.
i feel training is the way to help make you safer on the road and get more from your ride/bike.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Andy FZS on 29 June 2012, 08:36:17 am
After a sabbatical from motorcycling for a "FEW" years I returned earlier this year. Although everything has improved from 80's bikes I used to ride, I'm steadily growing in confidence with practice. I've no intention (or every did come to think about it!) of of being the quickest rider but do enjoy getting out at moderate speeds (keeping with traffic or maybe a little quicker) and I'm considering some type of course but am unsure if I should improve my basics to avoid embarrassing myself or go for it now when it may be of more use?
Andy
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Robbie8666 on 29 June 2012, 08:54:25 am
After a sabbatical from motorcycling for a "FEW" years I returned earlier this year. Although everything has improved from 80's bikes I used to ride, I'm steadily growing in confidence with practice. I've no intention (or every did come to think about it!) of of being the quickest rider but do enjoy getting out at moderate speeds (keeping with traffic or maybe a little quicker) and I'm considering some type of course but am unsure if I should improve my basics to avoid embarrassing myself or go for it now when it may be of more use?
Andy

Andy, thats exactly how I feel! I have had my Fazer for 12 months now & whilst I use it for occassional commuting or run home (240 miles each way!) I feel I could definately benefit from further training but dont want to find a group and then do something stupid!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: goldfazer on 29 June 2012, 12:00:28 pm
'to pass yer IAM and Rospa....you cant exceed any speed limits '

I beg to differ as well....
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 29 June 2012, 01:04:00 pm
0
I really doubt it will be a credible defence if you do get caught speeding ....Rospa are even more strict than IAM.If anything , my police instructors said its even worse to get caught speeding after doing an IAM, as you " should know better"...

Well, yes, and because it means your Observation isn't up to scratch since you should have spotted the camera/ van/ copper in time to do something about it!

Quote
yes on a well thought out overtake, use the acceleration of the machine...but that doesnt mean big speed multi car overtakes are the norm.

No, but I never said they were. That was, of course, also why the Examiner asked me to explain my reasoning about going for the overtake and my thought processes whilst doing so. So when I detailed the observations I'd made prior to it for potential hazards such as side-turnings, oncoming traffic etc  and how I was watching the second car in the group of three to check that he wasn't moving up/ outwards looking for his own overtake (possibly without checking his mirrors) and how I was ready to back out if necessary he accepted that I was doing it safely and had no problems passing me.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 29 June 2012, 01:09:20 pm
I'm considering some type of course but am unsure if I should improve my basics to avoid embarrassing myself or go for it now when it may be of more use?

I think it will improve your basics by picking up any bad habits you might have got into and getting rid of them before they get reinforced :thumbup
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 29 June 2012, 01:12:24 pm
I feel I could definately benefit from further training but dont want to find a group and then do something stupid!

Nobody is going to take the mick in a nasty way, the whole point of Advanced Training is to improve your skills and there won't be anyone in the group who hasn't been where you are or not made a mistake in their life.

Relax and enjoy it. Sure, you'll cock-up at some point, everyone does, but don't let it get to you, treat it as a learning experience and you'll not make the same mistake again.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: spider on 29 June 2012, 02:38:44 pm
i thort i was a great rider. i cud do 100mph on the straights or motorway. then i joined a advanced riding club. £55 a year. once a week i went out with my observor. once a month a safty chat and a ride with another observor. then there was the group rides. i have learned loads of things. pass my rospa and neva looked back. when i joined i thort oh this bloke is 20 years older than me. this will be slow and boring. how wrong was i. he lost me on the first bend.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 29 June 2012, 02:52:08 pm
That was like the blokes I went out with on the "private" runs. (non observed)
 
Took a while but eventually I got the skills, mostly observation and gearbox/throttle control.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 30 June 2012, 06:41:20 am
Goldfazer
1. as a cyclist you have often boasted you dont have to stick to any speed limits, as no doubt you are a special sort of driver.
 
2. yes in 1999, if you strayed over the limit  more than 3 times  on your test ( even minor overages eg + 5 mph) you automatically failed. Rospa didnt allow any mistakes....obviously times have changed.I think standards were higher back then. Some might think that doesnt count , but keeping to limits is a skill in itself....
 
My issue is this...a court or traffic copper  wont take the view that as a IAM driver you have any more right than anyone else if caught speeding. Graham, you seem to smugly assume you have the ability to spot / detect speeed traps/ cameras...you should bottle it , it will be a wonder product.
 
The issue of sticking to a speed limit shows you have  restraint , something very important for inexperienced riders to master if they want to avoid riding into situations which can rapidly exceed their abilities. It doesnt actually mean going slow.Speed is not everything , safe use of speed is .We all have bikes which are capable of much higher speeds than we will normally need in most road situations...hence mastery over the machine ibso facto means restraining speed.
 
The common thread amongst inexperienced riders is they  just want to ride faster ....I think you should try to ride safer first . Speed comes with experience and knowledge, its not the first thing you should want to learn.I first learnt to ride in 1975, the roads were scary even back then with much lower powered cars and bikes, and much less traffic/ driving distractions.The UK is a potentially  very dangerous place to ride...get safe first is the IAM message.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: HalfEmpty on 30 June 2012, 10:12:35 am
I did the BikeSafe course a couple of years ago in Birmingham. FANTASTIC!!!!!
A bit scary the first day have a copper behind you all the time, but they are motorcyclists and they want you to stay alive.
On the subject of speed, the copper I followed 'nicked a bit on clear A roads. Apparently he took the lead because we were not making sufficient progress - 60 on our clocks was not 60 on his calibrated clock - seems like it was nearer 80 to keep up!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: goldfazer on 30 June 2012, 12:13:59 pm
'1. as a cyclist you have often boasted you dont have to stick to any speed limits, as no doubt you are a special sort of driver.'

er, no. Firstly I'd have a job breaking a speed limit these days (except downhill), secondly, pushbikes aren't subject to speedlimits BY LAW. But I can't see what that's got to do with anything anyway...

And it's a fact, my car IAM (1993) - stuck behind a slow moving vehicle, saw an overtake coming up, told the examiner there was going to be a brief chance and I'd make the most of it (back in the days of a commentary) - can't remember what I reached, nothing drastic but more than the 60(?) limit. He was quite happy and later told me I'd done the right thing.  When I did the bike test (examiner Robbie Dowling, Avon & Somerset Police bike instructor and examiner, been on TV :) ) had a similar thing, he mentioned it in the debrief, I just mentioned TED and he was happy.

So wind yer neck in :moon
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 30 June 2012, 04:25:39 pm
You can get done for "Furious Cycling"

It's nearly worth doing just to get that charge against your name!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: HalfEmpty on 30 June 2012, 08:50:43 pm
Curious Fycling is better  :lol
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 01 July 2012, 12:29:07 am
My issue is this...a court or traffic copper  wont take the view that as a IAM driver you have any more right than anyone else if caught speeding. Graham, you seem to smugly assume you have the ability to spot / detect speeed traps/ cameras...you should bottle it , it will be a wonder product.

Pitternator, where the *foc* did I say that? Oh, that's right, I didn't.  Why don't you go back and read what I actually *wrote* rather than what you smugly seem to assume I wrote?

Quote
The issue of sticking to a speed limit shows you have  restraint , something very important for inexperienced riders to master if they want to avoid riding into situations which can rapidly exceed their abilities.

And I don't disagree with that in the slightest... *when* it is appropriate! Sure, sticking to (or below) 30 and 40 limits is sensible. Sure, inexperienced riders (and even, or especially experienced one) should exercise due restraint, again *WHEN* it is appropriate.

Yes, fine, get safe first, I don't disagree with that either, but once you've got that message and increased your experience, then you'll find that what you can do *safely* increases.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 01 July 2012, 07:27:17 am
Gold
I recall a cycling thread where you did indeed brag about speeding on a bicycle!..above the law and all that .
I am perplexed that maybe on my IAM training / test / training afterwards, my group is the only one that seems to have kept to speed limits....
 
Its not me that needs to wind my neck in...
 
graham
Why is it you mention  that on your ride outs , you take  big overtakes and mention speeding , then take umbrage when I point out such ??..you make a big point about using a lot of speed to make the overtakes...another opinion is that maybe such an overtake was not appropriate/necessary if you needed such speed to make it .Yes , use the power of the machine, but its not a carte blanche. I would preach more a message about using the acceleration difference and natural slow down points in the road to make an overtake, rather than just big speed.It sends a safer message.If an inexperienced rider is not willing to restrain his speed behind slower traffic then it will lead to dodgy overtakes.Advanced riding is not just about going fast ...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 01 July 2012, 08:50:09 am
I believe that advanced cycling is about observation, positioning, safety and cornering.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 01 July 2012, 08:51:08 am
I believe that advanced cycling is about observation, positioning, safety and cornering

Or in this case, motorcycling!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 01 July 2012, 11:17:46 am
Why is it you mention  that on your ride outs , you take  big overtakes and mention speeding , then take umbrage when I point out such ??

Because you then go on to say stupid things like...

Quote
[...]but its not a carte blanche.

... implying that *I* have said this, when I have *NOT*, so stop trying to put words into my mouth.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 01 July 2012, 05:18:41 pm
It's about the ability to control the position and speed of your bike realtive to everything else on the road.
 
Enuff!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: sadlonelygit on 01 July 2012, 09:52:10 pm
my $0.02 worth.
the IAM group i went out with were the most sanctimonious bunch of pricks i ever had the mispleasure to meet.
observed rides were cancelled due to poor weather!! i used to ride 365 days a year, come rain, snow, hell or high water.
often i'd be setting out at 4am with frozen roads, so to have a ride cancelled because it's a bit wet didn't lay to well with me.
for some reason they met every criteria of the self righteous bearded bmw rider brigade who always knew 'better' than you and were mantra-like in their weekly roadcraft recitals. apparently my 30 years of accident free riding was more by luck than judgement as i had serious road placement issues (i wouldn't ride in the gutter approaching a right hander)
i sincerely hope that other groups are better than this as we can all learn something to make our riding better, perhaps a better/co-ordinated system of teaching, rather than being proud of the fact that you didn't have to stop the wheels moving at any traffic lights :rolleyes
Title: IAM skills for life
Post by: JZS 600 on 02 July 2012, 10:40:37 am
Yeah, there's all sorts in these clubs, we had one who could have been done for impersonating a ploice officer, what a twat!
 
Anyhoo, the guys I went out on runs with outside the IAM umbrella were a right bunch of lads that liked a thrap and a beer so not everyone in the IAM is so dour.
 
Having said which, I got a right bollocking from a bloke on a run once because he couldn't keep up on his Fireblade! I laughed my head off that day...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: spider on 02 July 2012, 12:13:20 pm
i luv riding wif my advanced riding club.  we ride out once a month. if it rains it rains.i neva stop learing. we done track day recently. the only problems i have seen has been people who join in with us for a ride. as they dont know the system. thats wen problems happen. yesterday a guy joined in 22 of us. we went along in a 40 mph limit zone he overtook a car at a junction whist puttin the bike up to approx 60mph and caused another rider to move out his way. when i asked him why he overtook at that point. his reply was to catch up with the bikes in front.  then added you was all behind me...   but. b4 i learned advanced riding i mite have done that sort of thing as well.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 03 July 2012, 07:27:47 am
I also observed  these complete double standards on group rideouts...usually the rule book got thrown out of the window on the way back....its this showboating and bragging of speeding , then next week telling someone off for going 3 mph over the limit, which made me lose credibility with the IAM.
 
I also have observed so many IAM riders excusing their behaviour by proclaiming " I was riding with the police ! " ...get real..its just speeding. Like any other biker.
 
I dont post up threads about how fast I rode last week, or how many cars I did big overtakes on. Thats my business.....and if I did, I am sure folk would get a bit bored with it all.
 
 
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Phil TK on 03 July 2012, 08:29:44 am
I also observed  these complete double standards on group rideouts...usually the rule book got thrown out of the window on the way back....its this showboating and bragging of speeding , then next week telling someone off for going 3 mph over the limit, which made me lose credibility with the IAM.
 

 I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen IAM riders riding like twats. Only last night I was following a bloke on a GS doing a bit of 'advanced' filtering. Sure, I was also riding a little bit like a hooligan but then if I was an IAM bod I would remove the green IAM sticker that he had back of his helmet.
 
 IAM people should take note. We OBSERVE you guys too you know!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 03 July 2012, 01:24:36 pm
I was wondering how long it would be...  :rolleyes

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Phil TK on 03 July 2012, 01:57:42 pm
There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.


 So you think non-IAM riders like me and the rest of the unwashed don't know when it's safe to push the limits then.   
 :z
 
I'm beginning to think the IAM hire a PR expert and make a point of doing the exact opposite that he reccomends.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: richfzs on 03 July 2012, 06:14:09 pm
I was wondering how long it would be...  :rolleyes

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.

That post is fairly offensive to anybody who isn't IAM. As Phil says, just because you're not IAM, doesn't mean you're not a safe rider. Equally so, being IAM doesn't mean you don't ride like a twat sometimes.

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group, mostly because I need it for something else I'm planning to do - it will be interesting to see what the guys in that group are like...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 03 July 2012, 06:27:27 pm
I was wondering how long it would be...  :rolleyes

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.

That post is fairly offensive to anybody who isn't IAM. As Phil says, just because you're not IAM, doesn't mean you're not a safe rider. Equally so, being IAM doesn't mean you don't ride like a twat sometimes.

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group, mostly because I need it for something else I'm planning to do - it will be interesting to see what the guys in that group are like...

I've done the same here in Kent - will let you know I get on...

s
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 03 July 2012, 06:36:23 pm
thanks guys, your points reinforce why I get offended by folk posting / bragging about just what they did or didnt do...then start pontificating and trying to lecture the rest of us about " advanced riding "...I think it just puts people off doing the IAM. Yet ironically when I did it ...I reckon it was a useful bit of training. The image of the IAM justs pushes people away. Sanctimonious ....you fill in the expletives.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 03 July 2012, 08:17:37 pm
I've done the IAM training but not the test (more fool me,, but that's another story)
 
I'm thinking of joining the local ROSPA group after the summer, I've got an appointment with the olympics that will suck up a bit of time, so it will be interesting to see what way the land lies there.
 
In the end, it's what you take away from it and what you put in to practice on a daily basis.  I like riding my bike and and if I can keep on doing that safely for years to come (30+ years in the saddle so far) I'll be a happy man. And it's good fun being in a group of mostly like minded people who share the same interest.

Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: MikeRBiker on 03 July 2012, 10:12:09 pm
Go for it.  The IAM training is, as has been said, all about observation and making progress consistent with the conditions.  Well worthwhile.

As for speeding, on the test the examiner is assessing your observation skills amongst others.  If you exceed the speed limits how can they tell if you saw the limits and ignored them on purpose, or if you missed them completely, and your observation is therefore crap?

My IAM group ride to the law when out officially, but go out with them on a non-official ride and they ride like everyone else - but usually with better planning...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 02:20:47 am
There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.


 So you think non-IAM riders like me and the rest of the unwashed don't know when it's safe to push the limits then.   

Oh look, it's Phil TK with the massive chip on his shoulder about the IAM again.

No, Phil, that's not what I think, but you can't see past your prejudices and once again you've confirmed that there's no point in trying to have a reasonable discussion of the subject with you, so excuse me if I decide not to waste any more time on you.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 02:25:48 am
As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.

That post is fairly offensive to anybody who isn't IAM. As Phil says, just because you're not IAM, doesn't mean you're not a safe rider. Equally so, being IAM doesn't mean you don't ride like a twat sometimes.

As I mentioned in the post above, Phil has a big chip on his shoulder about the IAM (look for the previous time the subject came up for details).

If I could be bothered I might be offended by his attitude and the way he constantly, deliberately misunderstands what I've said, but it's just not worth it.

Quote
I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group, mostly because I need it for something else I'm planning to do - it will be interesting to see what the guys in that group are like...

Good for you, yes, there may be idiots in that group, just as there are some idiots in every group, but make up your own mind on the subject, don't go in there with certain expectations just because of something someone else has said.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 02:26:53 am
I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group,

I've done the same here in Kent - will let you know I get on...[/quote]

Best of luck! It's good to see some people keeping an open mind :thumbup:
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 02:29:31 am
The image of the IAM justs pushes people away.

Or is it just the image of the IAM that some people choose to portray?

What good is the "useful training" when a newbie biker can go to a biker's cafe (or a forum) and hear people slagging off the IAM (or RoSPA or anyone else) as a "sanctimonious etc etc" and think "well, I won't bother with that, then"?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 02:32:47 am
Go for it.  The IAM training is, as has been said, all about observation and making progress consistent with the conditions.  Well worthwhile.

:thumbup

Quote
As for speeding, on the test the examiner is assessing your observation skills amongst others.  If you exceed the speed limits how can they tell if you saw the limits and ignored them on purpose, or if you missed them completely, and your observation is therefore crap?

I'd think that if you kept doing it in 30 or 40 limits he'd have no qualms about failing you, but if you only do it when it's safe, sensible and necessary to complete an overtake in a prompt and timely manner he'd be fine with that.

Quote
My IAM group ride to the law when out officially, but go out with them on a non-official ride and they ride like everyone else - but usually with better planning...

Shh! Someone might be offended...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Phil TK on 04 July 2012, 06:38:18 am
Oh look, it's Phil TK with the massive chip on his shoulder about the IAM again.

No, Phil, that's not what I think, but you can't see past your prejudices and once again you've confirmed that there's no point in trying to have a reasonable discussion of the subject with you, so excuse me if I decide not to waste any more time on you.

 Good, it's not really  the way I wanted to win the arguement, but if that 's what you want. Fine.
 Plenty of others who can carry on with a similar point of view to mine.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Phil TK on 04 July 2012, 06:47:58 am

What good is the "useful training" when a newbie biker can go to a biker's cafe (or a forum) and hear people slagging off the IAM (or RoSPA or anyone else) as a "sanctimonious etc etc" and think "well, I won't bother with that, then"?

A quick addendum.  NOTHING encapsulates the problems of the IAM better than the above quote.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: ghostbiker on 04 July 2012, 08:29:11 am
All i can say really is that "I" am a better rider than i was before i did the extra training with IAM. Not saying i am better than anyone else, only that i am better than i was.

all this personal bitching is kind of pointless, i think everyone will agree that any structured extra training is better than no training at all.

im all for training no matter if that is rospa, iam or even going back to a training school for extra lessons or even instructor bassed track time. all of it helps with your skill levels.

With the IAM system i took what i felt was of use and what i was willing to use on a daily ride, some things i didnt take on board (right or wrongly) because i knew i wouldnt stick to it. (for example the sticking to the left gutter on right hand bends, i knew i wouldnt take it to the extreams asked of me on a daily ride by my self)
At some point i want to also do rospa as well, just because i know i still have a lot to learn about riding. even though i have been on bikes pretty much since i was 14 and 90% of that time i have owned a bike.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: sadlonelygit on 04 July 2012, 11:17:19 am
i've given this matter a little bit of thought and i boils down to:


trying to teach someone common sense and experience.

the problem with this is, if like me you've managed to survive the 250 learner laws, and a further 30 years and walk without a limp, then it's quite probable that you have acquired both of the above, and that having an IAM mentor (who had points on his license)try to impart his particular view on you really is a case of sucking eggs.
we had an intial sit down to discuss my riding history and he obviously paid no attention as i'm pretty sure i mentioned my motorsport past (moped mayhem/clubman/enduro) as he said i didn't ride fast enough on the first part of my observed ride. you can guess what happened on the second part.

the iam is a club, with it's rituals and rites of passage, it has it's own patch and it's members feel 'righteous'.

and FYI i am a blue badger........because it's my job
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: spider on 04 July 2012, 11:52:17 am
what a thread.. some truth. sum  bitchin. serrious and funny bits. hope we all meet up one day.  however i am the best rider in the world.  never make a mistake. always have the perfect line and ride. oh and i neva lie :eek
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 05:19:30 pm

What good is the "useful training" when a newbie biker can go to a biker's cafe (or a forum) and hear people slagging off the IAM (or RoSPA or anyone else) as a "sanctimonious etc etc" and think "well, I won't bother with that, then"?

A quick addendum.  NOTHING encapsulates the problems of the IAM better than the above quote.

You know what? I agree. People dismissing the IAM as "sanctimonious etc etc" does nobody any good.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 04 July 2012, 05:25:24 pm
There are some twats in it though but I found most very agreeable. Had some good trips as well, the Nurburgring standing out as a favourite even though it scared the sh!t out of me. Not the track, the other people on it from taxis to tour buses!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: richfzs on 04 July 2012, 05:27:32 pm
Quote
but make up your own mind on the subject, don't go in there with certain expectations just because of something someone else has said.

As if anybody wouldn't make their own mind up

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group,

I've done the same here in Kent - will let you know I get on...

Best of luck! It's good to see some people keeping an open mind :thumbup :


Don't be too patronising now, will you...


Or is it just the image of the IAM that some people choose to portray?


Unfortunately Grahamm, it's you thats portraying the bad image... :\
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 05:31:17 pm
Quote
but make up your own mind on the subject, don't go in there with certain expectations just because of something someone else has said.

As if anybody wouldn't make their own mind up

Sure, everybody takes the time to ascertain the facts and not rely on what they heard from a bloke down the pub or their favourite newspaper or what someone said on a forum...

Quote
Or is it just the image of the IAM that some people choose to portray?

Unfortunately Grahamm, it's you thats portraying the bad image... :\

Yes, of course, it's all my fault, I'm such a sanctimonious etc etc...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: richfzs on 04 July 2012, 05:35:02 pm
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its probably a duck...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 04 July 2012, 10:43:20 pm
Y'know, I was talking to this bloke down the pub and he said he'd seen a bird that went cluck and didn't swim, but since I'd never seen a duck I believed him when he said that was what it was... :pokefun
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 05 July 2012, 07:01:23 am
I dont get offended at all by people doing the IAm. I would encourage anyone to do it for the safety message. But its when the double standards come in , and this smug self assurance rears its head that I get annoyed.
From my own experiences Graham, do try to realise that no amount of training will make one immune to an accident, or  can make going fast safe. It never will be. My message to anyone is  get safe first, encourage that element of IAM training  , speed will come in time, if thats what you want .We also need to recognise just what do we mean by going " fast" ?..and at what point does one get satisfied they are riding " fast enough"...it will vary for all riders, but at least a speed limit sets some sort of reasonable standard ?
While speed limits can be frustrating and at times ludicrous, they actually do make sense most of the time.These days they still are my benchmark, ever more so with the fecking crap drivers we have in the UK , the road congestion, and ever worsening road surface.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 05 July 2012, 01:19:20 pm
But its when the double standards come in , and this smug self assurance rears its head that I get annoyed.
From my own experiences Graham, do try to realise that no amount of training will make one immune to an accident, or  can make going fast safe. It never will be.

And once again I entirely agree because I have never said such a thing and never would.

For example an Observer from my local IAM group recently got wiped out by a drunk driver and was lucky not to lose a leg despite all his experience and observational skills. Another Green Badge holder I know hit a patch of diesel on a roundabout a while back.

Nothing can make you 100% safe, but Advanced Training can add a few percentage points which is surely a good thing.

Unfortunately when people choose (out of ignorance or prejudice etc) to dismiss the IAM or any other such group with sweeping generalisations that are likely to put others off getting advanced training then they aren't helping anyone.

Quote
While speed limits can be frustrating and at times ludicrous, they actually do make sense most of the time.

And other times they don't. At the junction of the A32 and the A272 there's a biker's cafe called Loomies. The road there is currently National Limit, but because some idiots have the habit of leaving the cafe (or going past it) with their throttle against the stop and blasting down the road at ludicrous speed, Hampshire Council have decided to make a long section of that road 50mph limit.

Unfortunately, of course, this will have absolutely *NO* effect on said idiots who will ignore that limit as much as they ignored the previous on, it will just affect everyone else.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Ian-man on 05 July 2012, 07:31:41 pm
Hi, I did the IAM course with Durham Advanced Motorcyclists, they are pretty relaxed about it all. I am not sure about the Northumbria group, I am sure  they will be fine. However there is always the likelyhood of being a few jobsworths or police impersonators in any of these groups. I went to the Northumbria ROSPA group but found them a bit elitist and you had to wait a year for your test at the time.

I have found the roadcraft that is taught at these groups to have served me well. Like anything else it needs time on the bike and practice. I find at the start of the year I need more concentration to do it right. You never get it right all the time and I ride like a twat sometimes too.

Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 07 August 2012, 06:26:13 pm
well... 2 months since i enrolled and... nothing except a rubbish little book about how to ride, none of which you can't find free on the interweb.

despite enrolling in June it looks like it'll be winter before i meet anyone - not happy.

terrible attitude as well.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: peejay on 07 August 2012, 07:20:48 pm
Assuming you are still in the north Kent area as per your profile, why don't you email the regional coordinator,
geoff.prettyRGC@iam.org.uk and ask him how long one has to wait to be assigned an Observer.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 07 August 2012, 09:36:41 pm
Assuming you are still in the north Kent area as per your profile, why don't you email the regional coordinator,
geoff.prettyRGC@iam.org.uk and ask him how long one has to wait to be assigned an Observer.

Yup, done that (although it wasn't Geoff) and got 'attitude': "yes, sometimes it takes a few months to get going..."

oh really?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 08 August 2012, 01:31:29 am
Wow what a thread,  Thought I would give you my experience of IAM, Ive had my full licence for 4 months after i passed my test I realised I hadnt been trained to an acceptable standard to stay alive on the uk roads. I studied on the net and chose IAM as it appeared to be what I was looking for.  Phoned them up Sefton IAM group Merseyside and luckily an 8 week course commenced from saturday at Formby Fire Station.  I met and was trained by an excellent friendly bunch of people the majority were all class 1 police riders, Ron Haslm track instructors, BMW test riders/motorcycle journalists the skills knowledge and experience they had between them was over 700 years.  They started with the basics taught me the system improved my confidence and skills week by week and I have recently just passed my test, however I wasnt interested in taking a test or passing.  I just wanted to be better trained and thats what I am.  I am ten times the rider I was 8 weeks ago, I am always processing five steps ahead of every situation I ride safer smoother and faster and I would reccomend IAM to anybody who wants to improve there safety and riding skills. However as having a cert ed in teaching myself I know that the quality of your observers and their attitudes will reflect on what you will learn and take away with you........... :z
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 08 August 2012, 09:29:55 am
I'm going to give RoSPA a go in September, see what that's like. No harm in a bit of training I say if you pick up a couple of tips. I did the IAM training 14 years ago and I'm still applying it today to my commute to work and country road rides. Now the boy's started riding at 17, I'm pretty keen for him to get a bit of training too....
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 08 August 2012, 08:56:48 pm
 
+ 1 as above
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Skippernick on 08 August 2012, 09:21:19 pm
Steve66 i feel for you not as bad but contacted my regional guy a week ago he said the observer would contact  me with in the week and nothing so far.
I think the IAM itself are quite professional its the local volunteers who are crap.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 09 August 2012, 08:04:12 am
You must remember that anyone can set up an IAM group as such if you have the qualification...and the standard of training will be that of the quality of the observers the group has. As such there will be variance in standards and attitudes.The IAM book serves to give some continuity , but if you can join a group with pro active and enthusiastic members , it is a real bonus.
I still reiterate my single point I have pushed throughout this thread ...dont think speed, think safe use of speed.If you cannot practice restraint of speed, you aint an advanced rider and you may well overcook it at some point.Ask any police rider how they judge a  safe speed !...its from years of training , which most of us will never achieve. Its why I also comment on this throwing out of the rulebook on a rideout. Skill levels may be too diverse to just simply follow the rider in front.( who could be far more skilled and confidant than yourself).
Another way of looking at it , is to ask yourself just why so many motorcyclists are KSI every year ....and no it aint just down to other drivers.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 09 August 2012, 10:11:19 am
Steve66 i feel for you not as bad but contacted my regional guy a week ago he said the observer would contact  me with in the week and nothing so far.
I think the IAM itself are quite professional its the local volunteers who are crap.

i think the key word there is "volunteers". 139 quid might be a large sum to me but if the guys doing the instructing were charging full rates it would be an awful lot more - in retrospect i might have reminded myself of that before posting.

first meet hopefully before christmas(!) and i still have an open mind...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Lazarus on 09 August 2012, 12:04:12 pm
groups vary from place to place m8 - as already been said in previous posts.
 
can believe some of the aggro which I perceived in previous posts about the IAM - imho it works for me but I may have been lucky with the local group - good guys and good riders/teachers.
 
being part of the IAM doesnt mean that you need to ride like saints - it just gives you better observation and therefore more time to plan.
 
all these, of course, are my own opinions.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: MEM62 on 09 August 2012, 04:02:23 pm
I joined a local group and it improved my riding a lot.  Unfortunately, I was unable to reach test standard and therefore never took it.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 10 August 2012, 03:59:09 pm
Thats interesting ....sounds like a challenge for someone....get you thru your test.! I know I took my test 13 yrs ago, but it never felt  an unattainable standard, but did need some thought / study , plus a lot of readjusting my mindset to pass.I dont believe its something most couldnt do with the right tuition.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: peejay on 10 August 2012, 08:45:49 pm
 :agree
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Jacko on 11 August 2012, 09:35:49 am
Whats the I ams, ROSPA, et al  view to filtering?
I am a riding god and all my accidents have been someone else's fault..

I do have issues filtering though and would be genuinely interested in learning more
and taking on some views.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 11 August 2012, 10:23:52 am
4 - FILTERING SKILLS. 
MotorCycle RoadCraft, page 126, 139 and 140.


Used when applicable, to make progress, usually between, stationary/slow moving lanes of vehicles.

 

Speed to be about no more than 10 mph higher than other vehicles though not at speeds above 30 mph. 



If traffic is held up by, say, temporary traffic lights and a large safety margin (space) is possible then, perhaps, by judicious use of the offside of the road, for example, then higher speeds may be both possible and desirable,

(space + view = speed). 

But this is really overtaking stationary traffic rather than filtering. 



When filtering past large vehicles extra caution is required due to the greatly restricted view.



Increased potential danger arises when vehicles are stationary or very slow moving – cycles, pedestrians, animals or vehicles crossing are a distinct possibility.




 When traffic is stopped, at traffic lights for example, look for traffic flow from the road crossing yours. 

How long is the traffic queue on your road? 

What colour are the lights on the other road? 

Can you see any red/green “men” on any of the lights? 

These things will give information as to how long it is likely to be before the lights change. 

And, therefore whether to filter or not 




 Part of the art of filtering comes from knowing when to show restraint. 

Avoid being drawn into a “race” with other vehicles.  If need be, allow them to go.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Jacko on 11 August 2012, 10:49:38 am
Its the overtaking type for me. I seem to find myself waiting
in queues when others tootle on by.
Seems to me that it relys on the oncoming traffic to make allowances
and that bothers me.

On original topic, I did a bike safe and found the police rider took risks I wouldn't
and the whole make progress, use the bike to its advantage thing to be taken to extreme.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 11 August 2012, 11:53:18 am
I've been communting in and out of London for 14 years, not filtering through traffic is NOT an option!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 11 August 2012, 01:03:25 pm
I've been communting in and out of London for 14 years, not filtering through traffic is NOT an option!

x2 (although I only moved out of London and, it follows, started commuting back in) 4 years ago. I think my filtering technique, developed over that time, may be ay odds with passing the IAM test...

We'll see I guess.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Jacko on 11 August 2012, 04:38:55 pm
Yes, be nice to hear what the Iam's view on it is.

I always think that between lanes is filtering and I like that do it lots
in and out of Sheffield.
Going down the outside is overtaking and different as there is oncoming traffic.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 11 August 2012, 06:28:12 pm
I think the IAM itself are quite professional its the local volunteers who are crap.

The operative word there is volunteers.

Observers do the job because they love biking and want to help others out. The only payment they get is the bit of cash you give them to pay for the fuel they use, nothing to cover their time etc that they're teaching you.

If you want to pay for Advanced Tuition, I'm sure there's plenty of places that will charge you a hundred quid for a couple of hours...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 11 August 2012, 06:49:09 pm
Yes, be nice to hear what the Iam's view on it is.

A quick precis from the IAM's "How To Be A Better Rider" book (BTW although, when I first got this book I thought "this is just stating the bleedin' obvious", however the point is that it puts all the information together in one place)

Quote
There are three key points to bear in mind:

* The speed of the traffic through which you'll filter.

* The speed differential between your machine and the traffic around you.

* The amount of space available to you.

Filtering in traffic flowing at speeds above 15-20mph should be avoided as vehicles at this speed can change direction with little or no warning. Also the speed differential shouldn't be more than 10-15mph above that of the slower moving traffic to allow you sufficient time to react to hazards . [I was taught this as the "20 delta 15" rule]

It also advises to scan both the near and middle-distance so you can keep an eye on what traffic close to you is doing, but also get advance warning of what may happen ahead, eg traffic lights changing, people indicating to turn right which will stop traffic ahead of you, pedestrians who may step out without looking.

You should also plan your filtering as a set of "stepping stones", ie there's a gap in front of the car in front of the one I'm now behind, so I'll move up to that and then look to go to the next gap, but if something changes, I won't find myself stuck in a bad position next to a car.

Another piece of advice is to always have an escape route planned, ie look to see that you can stop, evade or accelerate if something unexpectedly changes such as a driver making a move without checking their mirrors, someone stepping out from behind a high-sided vehicle, a car stopping and leaving a gap to let someone out of a side road etc.

If you don't filter when doing your Test and there's no reason not to then you could get marked down for not Making Progress, but, by the same token, filtering recklessly and causing someone else to have to adjust their speed or direction is also grounds for a fail, so you need to think carefully about what you're doing.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Jacko on 11 August 2012, 08:18:10 pm
That seems to blend filtering and overtaking into the same thing.
So are we saying that overtaking into oncoming traffic is ok if slow enough.
All city rush hour overtakes involve oncoming traffic.

Also doesn't not making progress and riding within your limits and comfort zone
contradict each other.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 11 August 2012, 08:38:02 pm
That seems to blend filtering and overtaking into the same thing.

I'd say they were different subsets of the same skill, it's just a matter of speed and positioning. Another piece of advice is to treat filtering as an on-going series of overtakes.

Quote
So are we saying that overtaking into oncoming traffic is ok if slow enough. All city rush hour overtakes involve oncoming traffic.

As mentioned, it's only a no-no if you make someone else feel the need to take avoiding action. Coming back from my holiday yesterday there was a long line of traffic approaching a pedestrian crossing so I took several opportunities (not to mention great delight ;) ) in moving into the opposite lane and pass several cars in one go, then making a pre-planned drop back into a gap between the rear of one car and the front of another when there was traffic coming the other way .

Quote
Also doesn't not making progress and riding within your limits and comfort zone contradict each other.

Nope, because as you get more practice and experience you find your limits increase and your comfort zone gets bigger :)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Jacko on 12 August 2012, 10:30:19 am
You're assuming I need more practice and experience.
There's a section on my commute that involves overtaking into oncoming traffic.
I don't many many bikes do. No amount of training in the world is going to make me
put myself in that position. So will I never pass an 'advanced' test due to lack of progress.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 12 August 2012, 10:50:02 am
You're assuming I need more practice and experience.
There's a section on my commute that involves overtaking into oncoming traffic.
I don't many many bikes do. No amount of training in the world is going to make me
put myself in that position. So will I never pass an 'advanced' test due to lack of progress.

It's a good point; there's a distinction between being 'able' to and being 'willing' to, and it seems tough being penalised simply because you're not willing to risk a particular move.
I've still not met any of the IAM team so it'll interesting to see where they draw the line.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Jacko on 12 August 2012, 08:35:27 pm
Do let us know how you get on
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 12 August 2012, 10:36:43 pm
You're assuming I need more practice and experience.

Well, yes, because I don't (or didn't) know how much riding you've done etc.

Quote
There's a section on my commute that involves overtaking into oncoming traffic. I don't many many bikes do. No amount of training in the world is going to make me put myself in that position. So will I never pass an 'advanced' test due to lack of progress.

Err, now you're making assumptions! :)

Just because other bikers do it, doesn't mean that it's sensible (eg treating the gap between two lines of traffic as a "bikes only" lane!)

"Making progress" isn't necessarily a simple matter of "do this, don't do that" because it's very dependant on the situation at the time and the flip-side is "riding with due restraint", ie knowing when it's better to hold back.

If there's on-coming traffic, holding back may be the best thing to do. If, on the other hand, there's nothing coming, there's no side turnings, places where pedestrians could suddenly appear from etc and you stay sitting in the traffic instead of using the ability of a bike to move up the traffic, you might get marked down for not making progress.

The best thing, of course, is actually to go out there with an Observer and get their comments.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: MEM62 on 14 August 2012, 01:08:32 pm
Thats interesting ....sounds like a challenge for someone....get you thru your test.! I know I took my test 13 yrs ago, but it never felt  an unattainable standard, but did need some thought / study , plus a lot of readjusting my mindset to pass.I dont believe its something most couldnt do with the right tuition.
I got a lot from it but got to a stage where I had quite a few obseved runs and my 'score' at the end of each run was no longer improving.  Others were already being put in for their tests with a similar number of runs.  I asked my observer about that on the final run I did and the best advice he could offer was 'Yes, I can see you have a problem with your riding'.  So I didn't bother going back. 
Personally I an quite happy with the standard of my riding.  A mate of mine who is a Police motorcyle rider was complimentary as was an instructor with whom I had a days advanced riding tuition that was thrown in with a bike I bought.       
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 14 August 2012, 04:54:15 pm
I got a lot from it but got to a stage where I had quite a few obseved runs and my 'score' at the end of each run was no longer improving.  Others were already being put in for their tests with a similar number of runs.  I asked my observer about that on the final run I did and the best advice he could offer was 'Yes, I can see you have a problem with your riding'.  So I didn't bother going back. 

That's a shame.

My local group (Solent) have now added the post of "Associate Co-ordinator", someone who you can have a quiet chat with if you feel that you're not with the right Observer or things aren't working out the way you like and they can look into matters on your behalf and, if you want, get you a new Observer.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 14 August 2012, 10:59:13 pm
Some of these posts are incredibly hillarious, and obviously people are talking about IAM and havent got a clue what there talking about, Its just a shame that people asking questions are taking advice from the above.  If you attempted to overtake into moving oncoming traffic When being assessed by a class 1 police examiner you would  fail immediately.  :lol
 
Please continue........... ;)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: MEM62 on 15 August 2012, 10:18:07 am


That's a shame.

My local group (Solent) have now added the post of "Associate Co-ordinator", someone who you can have a quiet chat with if you feel that you're not with the right Observer or things aren't working out the way you like and they can look into matters on your behalf and, if you want, get you a new Observer.

It is a bit of a shame as I would have liked to have taken the test.  However, as I said, I still got a lot from it and still use the system when I ride.  Having been on bikes for the past 34 years I don't need a piece of paper to confirm that I am a competent rider.  The group I was with did set up a mentoring scheme in which I expressed interest but no-one took it any further so after the last comment from the observer I just didn't see any point in going back.  The real shame is that I would have liked to have remained involved with the group but you can't hang in there as an associate forever.       
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 15 August 2012, 10:22:38 am
If you attempted to overtake into moving oncoming traffic When being assessed by a class 1 police examiner you would  fail immediately.

Really? And you base this on what? Are you a Class 1 Police Examiner? Are you an Observer? Have you had any Advanced Training? Or is this just your opinion?

As I said in a post above "it's only a no-no if you make someone else feel the need to take avoiding action."
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 15 August 2012, 10:24:08 am
Having been on bikes for the past 34 years I don't need a piece of paper to confirm that I am a competent rider. 

True, but you might get a discount from your Insurer :)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 15 August 2012, 12:13:01 pm
Having been on bikes for the past 34 years I don't need a piece of paper to confirm that I am a competent rider. 

True, but you might get a discount from your Insurer :)

that's why i'm doing it.

btw - i filter 'in to' oncoming traffic in town all the time.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: MEM62 on 15 August 2012, 03:23:55 pm
Having been on bikes for the past 34 years I don't need a piece of paper to confirm that I am a competent rider. 

True, but you might get a discount from your Insurer :)
That's very true but, at my age, an extra 10% or so is not much difference.  But either way, my motivation wasn't financial - it was the fact that I believed in the training and would have liked ultimately to have continued as part of the goup and perhaps passed the knowledghe onto others.  Little chance of that if I couldn't even get as far as the test  :(   Oh well........
Anyway, as I said, I believe in it and when asked would certainly recommend it to others.  It is very good training and in addition to making many riders a lot safer it has also enhances their riding enjoyment - as it did for me.   
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 15 August 2012, 08:09:17 pm




As I said in a post above "it's only a no-no if you make someone else feel the need to take avoiding action."

 :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :lol
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 15 August 2012, 08:56:54 pm
As I said in a post above "it's only a no-no if you make someone else feel the need to take avoiding action."

 :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :lol

I notice you didn't answer my questions, so I'll ask again: Have you done any advanced training?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: noggythenog on 15 August 2012, 09:58:49 pm
Hey its a wee bit bitchy this topic eh,


Respect to people who feel they want more training, perhaps the theory is sound and focuses the mind
And switches people on a bit,


Also respect to people who like to do it their own way, teaching themselves skills as they go along and learning from theirs and others mistakes,


lets not forget its supposed to be fun though otherwise whats the point,just sit at home drinking yakult in your oxygen tent whilst designing your very own cryo chamber.


In writing we can all claim to be always switched on at all times but at the end of the day we're the same as many advanced riders/novices/jet pilots/train drivers/moto gp riders....human...and we're all gomna make some stupid mistakes sooner or later.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: richfzs on 15 August 2012, 10:01:39 pm
Hey its a wee bit bitchy this topic eh,

This is nothing, fella! Wait till people get really riled (or Iano turns up  :rollin :rollin )
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 16 August 2012, 11:07:53 am
I must say, the recently IAM converted become nearly evangelistic on the subject as "born again advanced bikers" but a few years on they tend to revert to normal bikers.
 
I still hang around with some of my old IAM mates and they're OK guys!
 
They always say there's nothing like a reformed (insert description here)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: budgiemurray on 16 August 2012, 05:19:57 pm
Did my test a couple of months ago with the scottish borders IAM group and still go out on regular sunday morning rides with them.. Nest move i ever made.. Ive noticed a huge difference in my riding and confidence..


Budgie  ( back on a fazer soon)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 16 August 2012, 09:39:46 pm
First meet this evening and... Pretty good I thought. It was only the 'IDCAM' introduction, not unlike the Bikesafe intro if anyone's done that?
First ride assessment on Saturday, so plenty of time for it to all go wrong...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 16 August 2012, 11:49:33 pm
It was only the 'IDCAM' introduction

Ok, it sounds great, but what *is* IDCAM?? I've just been searching for the term and whilst I've seen it mentioned in a couple of places (relevant to bikes) I can't find what it stands for!!  :wall
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: richfzs on 16 August 2012, 11:55:32 pm
Introductory Day Course in Advanced Motorcycling

took 2 seconds, is your google broken?  :rollin
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 12:13:43 am
took 2 seconds, is your google broken? 

Clearly it is, because the first bike releated link I can find just searching for the acronym comes up with "www.kamg.org.uk/idcams.html" however when I tried to click on that it just comes up with "problem loading page".

Trying IDCAM and Motorcycle comes up with a links eg to Kent Advanced Motorcycle Group's magazine (which is presumably the kamg mentioned in the link above), but nothing that actually says what it means.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 17 August 2012, 12:30:04 am
It's the Introductory Day Course in Advanced Motorcycling, apologies for the confusion. Apologies also for the tautology... Introductory introduction anybody?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 12:36:31 am
It's the Introductory Day Course in Advanced Motorcycling, apologies for the confusion.

No worries, thanks for that.

Quote
Apologies also for the tautology... Introductory introduction anybody?

It's not the most obvious acronym ever...!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Raymy on 17 August 2012, 06:01:17 am
MIAOW!!!!


Saucer of milk to table 2
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 17 August 2012, 07:27:01 am
feck..some one is  looking seriously sad ( graham)...stand back and take a look at ur " addiction" to " advanaced training " !  :eek
 
the thought that someone knows something more than yourself about it all... :z
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 12:18:21 pm
Yawn. Hear that sound Pitternator? That's the sound of me not giving a foc.

To anyone else: don't let the negative attitudes of some people put you off the idea of getting some advanced training :thumbup
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 17 August 2012, 05:19:33 pm
feck..some one is  looking seriously sad ( graham)...stand back and take a look at ur " addiction" to " advanaced training " !  :eek
 
the thought that someone knows something more than yourself about it all... :z
:rollin

+1 couldnt agree with you more
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: richfzs on 17 August 2012, 05:24:30 pm
:agree

Grahamm, the Kent groups page didn't work for me either, but since google also shows a snippet from the page in the search results, you didn't need to actually go to the page to find out what the acronym stands for.

You can thank me now, for telling you what IDCAM stands for, as I told you before steeeve66.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 07:12:32 pm
+1 couldnt agree with you more

And still we don't get an answer from redman about whether he's had any Advanced Training.

So let's try "If you attempted to overtake into moving oncoming traffic When being assessed by a class 1 police examiner you  would  fail immediately. " [Citation Needed]

Do you have anything to back that up, redman, other than your opinion of what you *think* might happen?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 07:17:12 pm
Grahamm, the Kent groups page didn't work for me either, but since google also shows a snippet from the page in the search results, you didn't need to actually go to the page to find out what the acronym stands for.

It didn't show in the results I got.

Quote
You can thank me now, for telling you what IDCAM stands for, as I told you before steeeve66.

Thank you so much.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 17 August 2012, 07:26:00 pm
:agree

Grahamm, the Kent groups page didn't work for me either, but since google also shows a snippet from the page in the search results, you didn't need to actually go to the page to find out what the acronym stands for.

You can thank me now, for telling you what IDCAM stands for, as I told you before steeeve66.

..thanks.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 17 August 2012, 08:02:24 pm
+1 couldnt agree with you more

And still we don't get an answer from redman about whether he's had any Advanced Training.

So let's try "If you attempted to overtake into moving oncoming traffic When being assessed by a class 1 police examiner you  would  fail immediately. " [Citation Needed]

Do you have anything to back that up, redman, other than your opinion of what you *think* might happen?   



Graham I am not going to waste my time responding to your question, i know what i am talking about i dont think i know what i am talking about, please continue with your posts as they are highly amusing
 :rollin
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 08:24:30 pm
Graham I am not going to waste my time responding to your question, i know what i am talking about i dont think i know what i am talking about, please continue with your posts as they are highly amusing

"i know what i am talking about i dont think i know what i am talking about"???

Now *that's* amusing!

Unfortunately, as to your comments, I call bullshit.

Let me give you a scenario:

You're being assessed by a Class 1 Police Rider and you're riding along an A Road in a National Speed limit zone. There's a car in front of you, going in the same direction as you are, doing 45mph. The road is perfectly straight, there are wide-spaced short dashed lines in the centre of the road. You can see a quarter of a mile into the distance and at that point there's a car coming the other way.

You have plenty of time to a) perform an overtake without needing to exceeding the speed limit and b) to move back in to your side of the road without cutting in sharply on the car which you're passing or causing the car coming in the opposite direction to have to change their speed or their direction.

Now, according to your claim "If you attempted to overtake into moving oncoming traffic When being assessed by a class 1 police examiner you would  fail immediately".

So, do you *still* think that you would "fail immediately", or would you be marked down for failing to make progress when the opportunity presents itself?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: richfzs on 17 August 2012, 08:31:38 pm
Wasn't the scenario we were talking about, filtering? Moving goalposts...

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 08:48:46 pm
Wasn't the scenario we were talking about, filtering?

Sorry, where did I miss the word "filtering" in any of redken's posts?

His word was "overtaking" and he knows what he's talking about!!
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 17 August 2012, 09:35:42 pm
Wasn't the scenario we were talking about, filtering? Moving goalposts...

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

thats what i mean rich im not going to waste my breath :z
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: redman on 17 August 2012, 09:51:23 pm
That seems to blend filtering and overtaking into the same thing.

I'd say they were different subsets of the same skill, it's just a matter of speed and positioning. Another piece of advice is to treat filtering as an on-going series of overtakes.

Quote
So are we saying that overtaking into oncoming traffic is ok if slow enough. All city rush hour overtakes involve oncoming traffic.

As mentioned, it's only a no-no if you make someone else feel the need to take avoiding action. Coming back from my holiday yesterday there was a long line of traffic approaching a pedestrian crossing so I took several opportunities (not to mention great delight ;) ) in moving into the opposite lane and pass several cars in one go, then making a pre-planned drop back into a gap between the rear of one car and the front of another when there was traffic coming the other way .



Nope, because as you get more practice and experience you find your limits increase and your comfort zone gets bigger :)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 17 August 2012, 11:00:17 pm
thats what i mean rich im not going to waste my breath


Says redman as he then adds a quote which repeats what I have said, but he *STILL* doesn't justify his claim that "If you attempted to overtake into moving oncoming traffic When being assessed by a class 1 police examiner you would  fail immediately."

But, for the sake of fairness, let's change the scenario to one that might make him happier...

Take the example which he so kindly quoted: "Coming back from my holiday yesterday there was a long line of traffic approaching a pedestrian crossing so I took several opportunities (not to mention great delight (http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif) ) in moving into the opposite lane and pass several cars in one go, then making a pre-planned drop back into a gap between the rear of one car and the front of another when there was traffic coming the other way."

Are you, redman, saying that had I done that on my Advanced Test, when being assessed by a Class 1 Police Rider, that I would have "failed immediately" because I was "overtaking" (read: filtering) into "moving oncoming traffic"?

(I'm not going to hold my breath for an answer, but it's so much fun watching redman continually trying to avoid answering a direct question...  :rollin )
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: ghostbiker on 18 August 2012, 12:30:00 am
I think the IAM's has a lot to offer, but honestly grahamm your not doing them any favours on the pr front here.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 18 August 2012, 01:54:36 pm
First day out with IAM and... pretty good i thought. Predictably 'fussy' about speed but with lots to offer in other areas.

The Fazer did let me down somewhat - about 3/4 of the way through having stopped in for a quick de-brief, went to pull away and the bike kept moving forward with the clutch in... pulled the brake, still with the clutch in, and *stall*. Clutch lever worryingly loose. And it's not the cable, which is new, but something more fundamental and, i expect, more expensive.
My instructor pointed me in the direction of a bike garage close by who have taken the bike in. He then gave me a lift home. A bright guy from whom i'm sure i can learn plenty - and in those areas where i might disagree i'm sure i'll be left free to make up my own mind. I just don't see the problem, and so to the original question "..recommended?" my answer thus far is yes.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 19 August 2012, 04:34:20 pm
I think the IAM's has a lot to offer, but honestly grahamm your not doing them any favours on the pr front here.

I'm not speaking for the IAM, I'm speaking for myself and given the sort of attitudes that some others have about the IAM (see earlier in this thread and others) anyone who is going to listen to that sort of nonsense (or listen to someone mocking from what increasingly appears to be ignorance) won't care anyway.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 19 August 2012, 04:42:03 pm
First day out with IAM and... pretty good i thought. Predictably 'fussy' about speed but with lots to offer in other areas.

I'm glad to hear you had a good time and felt you benefitted from it :thumbup

As for the Fazer problem, because you say the clutch was loose and the cable is new it might simply that the fixing where the cable attaches to the lever on the side of the engine has come loose or wasn't tightened up properly and it could (hopefully!) be a matter of just tightening it back up again.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 22 August 2012, 07:34:27 am
cant believe this thread is still going on ...and on...and on.....zzzzzzzzzz
 
if you have lost ghostbikers confidence, you do have  a problem....
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 22 August 2012, 04:13:31 pm
cant believe this thread is still going on ...and on...and on.....zzzzzzzzzz

And so you had to post something just to keep it going?

Or was it just to get the last word in...?

(PS Feel free to get the last word now if it makes you happy)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Raymy on 23 August 2012, 02:23:08 am
W\O|R/D
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 23 August 2012, 07:42:57 am
as opposed to you wanting the last word  !   :lol
 
its better than life aint it ...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Phil TK on 23 August 2012, 08:17:31 am

Or was it just to get the last word in...?

Ahem, well the IAM certainly isn't the last word in advanced training so it's entirely justified.
 'Training is good though, but PR is a disaster which if you hadn't already noticed puts people off doing advanced trainiong in the first place.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Lazarus on 23 August 2012, 10:42:59 am

Or was it just to get the last word in...?

Ahem, well the IAM certainly isn't the last word in advanced training so it's entirely justified.
 'Training is good though, but PR is a disaster which if you hadn't already noticed puts people off doing advanced trainiong in the first place.




lets not tar them all with the same brush.


the local IAM which i am a member of is pretty good.


They are flexible, friendly and willing to share their knowledge (thats all they are doing)


They are by no means saints (ive been on rideouts with them - when I use "with", i use that loosely - im usually way at the back)


However - they give up their time to pass on the skills AS PRESCRIBED BY THE IAM and the riding styles that you would require to pass the test.


and the group I am in do this for the cost of a cup of coffee at the after ride debrief.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 23 August 2012, 06:19:15 pm
so its not just graham who is a fan then !    ;)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: harry69koi on 23 August 2012, 06:26:09 pm
Do you have to do all the eye sight test etc palava again to pass the IAM ?

lee
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: budgiemurray on 23 August 2012, 06:55:49 pm
Only eye test i got was can you read that number plate over there..

Budgiemurray..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 24 August 2012, 07:42:45 am
surely you would want yer eyesight to be Ok riding a bike !....specs are totally acceptable for the test in any case...
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 02 December 2012, 06:56:09 pm
Well I've tried it and... found it on the whole pretty good. A tad frustrating, some of the methods are tricky and some (going straight over roundabouts for instance) don't feel right at all at first, but having gone through it I think it's been pretty worthwhile.
I've reached the 'standard', apparently, and take the test shortly.
Not sure how 'safer' I am as a rider - the only real change to my riding has been the level of observation and (another odd one I thought at first) indicating less. And going straight over roundabouts of course.
As for the criticism here (and elsewhere) I think it's horses for courses - doubtless there are many who have learned everything there is to know about riding already or simply dislike the slightly worthy (and IAM is a bit worthy) attitude and for them it's probably not worth the 139 quid. But for everyone else I'd say its worth a look.

Just be prepared to stick rigidly to the speed limits - harder than you'd think...

S
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Ian-man on 02 December 2012, 07:29:43 pm
The observers at my local group have had a visit from the IAM head office peeps. The ruling now is that they are not allowed to exceed the speed limit, even on open country B roads and overtakes.
This will make making progress even more of  an exercise inl observation. Timing overtakes etc as getting past people doing 55 to 60 will need more patience.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: JZS 600 on 02 December 2012, 08:35:34 pm
I recently did an IDCAM with the local IAM (I won a prize see, didn't cost me a bean as opposed to £25 normally)


I did alright, got mostly B's with a couple of A's but a C+ for country lanes.


Picture the scenario: the leaves are falling off the trees, the (single track) road is sopping wet, there are a lot of drives and junctions coming on to the road, not many clear views ahead as the road was twisty and the surface was, frankly, shite.


I thought: choose life and rode very steadily with plenty of room/space/braking distance should I have to slam the anchors on (on the shity road surface)


I was criticized for going slow as it was a national speed limit road (60 MPH)


Technically the guy was correct but I couldn't agree with him


I'm going to try the local ROSPA next. (cheaper too.)



Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: karlo on 02 December 2012, 09:56:39 pm
Did my test early November with an ex copper as examiner, enjoyed doing the course met some great people at the Lichfield group, good bunch, well relaxed, made me welcome and train you at your own pace.

£139 well spent imo.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 02 December 2012, 10:05:38 pm
Not sure how 'safer' I am as a rider - the only real change to my riding has been the level of observation

Glad to hear it went well and good luck with the test.

Regarding observation, as you get used to it slowly, you don't tend to notice the change, but I've thought back to how I used to ride and realised that because I'm seeing stuff earlier it's making riding smoother and safer because there's fewer of those "Oh shit! Phew, that was close!" moments :)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 02 December 2012, 10:10:14 pm
I was criticized for going slow as it was a national speed limit road (60 MPH)

Hmm, it's a bit difficult to comment without having been there, but the "4 S" rule is "Safety, System, Smoothness, Speed" with speed coming last after all the others.

(I was told off by one Observer for going too quick in a situation like that! Can't win sometimes, can you? ;) )
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Fazer on kill on 02 December 2012, 10:31:02 pm
Mate you are welcome at my group.


If you are Surrey, South of the river or Kent. look up www.l-a-m.org (http://www.l-a-m.org)
we meet twice a month, 1st Sun and 3rd Sat. Banstead and Tatsfield.


As a 23year old on my trusty FZS600 I think it was the best investment I made.


We have a cracking social scene, trips to  Wales, Norfolk and the continent.
Social gatherings.




We are a mixed bunch and there is a complete mish-mash.
Please dont be put off if some pipe n slippers BMW pilot is a bit weird. The only thing we can say is we all love biking. Come along, give us a try.


Open invitation to all. The £139 is steep but I think I have saved that several times over.


We are a charity, we just want to make people safer (NOT SLOWER)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Tifa on 03 December 2012, 12:48:01 pm
To IAM or not IAM ?
 
7 pages?
 
I've just lost the will to live.
 
Whatever happened to that countersteering thread?
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: tony_d123 on 03 December 2012, 03:55:06 pm
To IAM or not IAM ?
 
7 pages?
 
I've just lost the will to live.
 
Whatever happened to that countersteering thread?


 :lol :lol :lol

Just to keep this going, I did it 30 years after passing my test and really enjoyed it. Would definitely recommend doing it  :)



Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: steeeve66 on 07 January 2013, 10:53:56 pm
For those who have found this item life-threateningly dull might I suggest you direct your attention elsewhere...

For anyone else - here's how I found it: the KAMG are a top bunch, not everyone will be your cup of tea but there is plenty of experience on hand and I found all genuinely helpful. For me the problem was the Man From Hendon who, separate from KAMG, does your test. For most these things are, to some extent, subjective, with only a few rules being genuinely 'black' and or 'white' (speed, double white lines - what others are there?). My undoing was going a little over a painted roundabout where the turn was quite tight and, to me at least, it made more sense to keep the bike upright than to try and make it round without touching. The Man From Hendon dissagreed and I was failed. He was also less than plussed when I questioned the decision; although not in uniform those boys maintain the attitude at all times I guess. I found him pretty objectionable.
Hey-ho, It wasn't a wasted exercise although I didn't learn a huge amount I didn't know already I do now keep to speed limits more attentively and my observation has probably improved, and to that extent I may well be a little safer. Hard to judge I guess.

Next stop RoSPA.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 08 January 2013, 12:58:25 am
For most these things are, to some extent, subjective, with only a few rules being genuinely 'black' and or 'white' (speed, double white lines - what others are there?). My undoing was going a little over a painted roundabout where the turn was quite tight

Unfortunately the Highway Code says:

Quote
188

Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so.

Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)

If the Examiner sees you disobeying a "Must" on your Test and it's not something that can be overlooked (eg him "not seeing" you going a little over the speed limit whilst overtaking on a National Limit road), he's pretty much obliged to fail you.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: spider on 08 January 2013, 01:50:59 pm
i was the best rider in the world. then i joined chelmsford eamg. now i am the best rider in the world. no pipe and slippers. just a ride out every month with a great bunch.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: pitternator on 11 January 2013, 01:30:31 pm
with any test / examiner there are always margins...areas of overlap which may or may not conform to how they see " black and white". For example, a speed limit of 60 was ( in my day) expected to be maintained as a " solid 60"..ielimit +10%=  66mph ! Now is this still expected ?...but its clearly a strict breach of a speed limit , but police examiners in the 90s felt it showed your capability of riding at speed , without resorting to excess.But if you went through a speed camera at this speed, there was no immunity to prosecution, and the examiner would just ride off  !! Equally so, no allowance was given to 30s and 40s, ie strict adherance was expected.It was a case of learning /knowing what you can and cant do. TBH riding over a white mini roundabout to me is a grey area, like dotted hatchings seperating traffic lanes, as opposed to solid white lines...Do just a bit more than is necessary  will invoke examiner displeasure.Oddly , on larger roundabouts it was expected to use all lanes if empty  to cut off the corners to maintain progress......To fail on just this is alone seems unreasonable as they usually let you have up to 3 small errors, so maybe there was something else.?
I can remember a chap failing his test cos he only used his back brake ! sounds odd, but if you havent shown any ability in front braking, its not good riding practice, even though it shows good acceleration sense, using engine braking and throttle control to slow down.Some IAM die hards believe you almost shouldnt need to brake at all...the list can go on and on...partly because all examiners have opinions, and the IAM test isnt like a tick box type of test....there is an element of subjectivity in it all. My only advice is to remember that setting a good standard to start off your test will always give you a little something in the bank if a small mistake is made later. IAM always say that you are deemed to have passed your test already  ...on the test you can only fail by not riding to the right standard.So  a poor start will set the scene badly as it were...
 
I thoroughly enjoyed my IAM training , was over the moon to pass my test ,it definitely was a major riding challenge and a great sense of achievement ... and then went on to help others as an observer.I think its something which floats your boat or it dont ! If you can join a socially active group that can help. Trouble is with me now, I like to ride how I have developed to , and often its at odds with strict IAM standards, so feel a bit two faced to stand and preach doctrine.But what I can say is if you do want to ride fast , all the IAM dogma works equally well ! You cant just go out there and ride fast in safety.Anyone can twist the throttle and ride fast , but it takes an expert to do so in safety ...and to know where to draw the line and act with restraint. The IAM is a excellent foundation course.
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: DryRob on 11 January 2013, 04:59:57 pm
I've arranged to meet up with my local group on Sunday for a ride out to test the waters or the snow if the weatherman is right
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Andy FZS on 12 January 2013, 12:31:39 am
Rob as you live in my area let me know how you get on.
Andy

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: Grahamm on 12 January 2013, 12:58:29 am
TBH riding over a white mini roundabout to me is a grey area, like dotted hatchings seperating traffic lanes, as opposed to solid white lines...Do just a bit more than is necessary  will invoke examiner displeasure.

As mentioned above, avoiding the mini roundabout is a "You MUST". Dotted hatchings are ok provided you do it sensibly (ie in a way that wouldn't cause anyone to have to adjust their speed or direction).

Quote
Oddly , on larger roundabouts it was expected to use all lanes if empty  to cut off the corners to maintain progress

The IAM have recently released a document called "Common Confusions About Your Test" where they clarify several of these issues. You should be able to see a copy here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbcwi5z7eizrgbd/Common%20confusions%20-%20bike.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbcwi5z7eizrgbd/Common%20confusions%20-%20bike.pdf)
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: spider on 13 January 2013, 11:16:56 am
fantastic thread. join or dont join rospa, iam,  but one thing is for sure. the more miles you do. the better you understand the road
Title: Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
Post by: DryRob on 14 January 2013, 03:24:11 pm
Rob as you live in my area let me know how you get on.
Andy

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk 2

Well i can't really judge the entire group as I only met 3 people but they all seemed friendly enough as well as pretty enthusiastic about the group and bikes in general. Based on what I've seen I'll probably join but I'm goin to go to a club night first to see what the other members are like first. They did mention that they've got a lot planned for the year and seemed worried they might not be able to fit it all in.