Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Kenny Dave on 03 April 2020, 12:35:27 am
-
So I've had my centre stand, cleaning it up as well as I can, and put a new coat of hammerite on the thing of course.
It moves ok, but it doesn't return fully. The seats are a bit naffed, but the main problem I think is how little force there is on the spring when it's up. Hence I'd like to replace the spring. Ideally a repair kit, something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/99-9953-pre1980-TRIUMPH-T140-BONNEVILLE-CENTRE-STAND-SPRING-BOLT-FIXING-KIT/254335913656?epid=1723346190&hash=item3b379a0eb8:g:zrMAAOSwgyxWVwgn (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/99-9953-pre1980-TRIUMPH-T140-BONNEVILLE-CENTRE-STAND-SPRING-BOLT-FIXING-KIT/254335913656?epid=1723346190&hash=item3b379a0eb8:g:zrMAAOSwgyxWVwgn)
But I can't find one for the fazer. Any suggestions? Or spring dimensions?
I have the nuts tight, 30 Nm on them. Is this necessary, or is it safe to have them loser with the lock nuts and some thread lock on there? Maybe the issue.
Thanks if you can guide.
-
Just one thing to bear in mind with the centre stand, if they become weak or damaged in any way through rust, wear and tear, etc, they can bend out of shape causing them not to function correctly. Normally caused by repeatedly twisting the stand as you pull the bike up onto it.
I'd be very surprised if it is the TWO springs that are faulty (one inside the main one too).
My stand was like this but i couldn't really see what the issue was until i removed it from the bike, then it was glaringly obvious that it was twisted and offset.
I'm not saying this definitely is the case with yours, but it may be worth removing again to have a check, because chances are you wouldn't have noticed a problem if you weren't looking for one.
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4162127/fzs600-fazer-5dm4-1999-070-b/stand-footrest (https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4162127/fzs600-fazer-5dm4-1999-070-b/stand-footrest)
-
Just one thing to bear in mind with the centre stand, if they become weak or damaged in any way through rust, wear and tear, etc, they can bend out of shape causing them not to function correctly. Normally caused by repeatedly twisting the stand as you pull the bike up onto it.
I'd be very surprised if it is the TWO springs that are faulty (one inside the main one too).
My stand was like this but i couldn't really see what the issue was until i removed it from the bike, then it was glaringly obvious that it was twisted and offset.
I'm not saying this definitely is the case with yours, but it may be worth removing again to have a check, because chances are you wouldn't have noticed a problem if you weren't looking for one.
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4162127/fzs600-fazer-5dm4-1999-070-b/stand-footrest (https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4162127/fzs600-fazer-5dm4-1999-070-b/stand-footrest)
:agree
As mentioned this is by far the biggest reason stands don't return fully, they can also flap a little. Check the springs while in the up position while the bikes on the side stand, you'll be able to see very easily if any one is broken, even with one broken the stand normally returns fully just very easy to move. If they're not broken and the stand is just hanging either the stand frame is twisted or spring anchor point/s are bent or both.
-
It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
It has improved a bit with fiddling. If it's within maybe 3 inches of the up position, it goes. Taking it off the centre leaves it in a sort of dead spot below this though. I don't think it will MOT like this, and more importantly it's dangerous of course if I forget to flick it up with my heel, or hit a pothole and it drops. don't know if the last will happen but I don't like the thought.
There is some cratering on the stand from rust, which I've taken off with a drill attachment wire brush, but it's only minor. It gets repainted regularly, it's lost v little since I got it 15 years ago.
Do the nuts need to be as tight as I've got them?
-
I'll get it off and get some pictures and have another look though. Maybe I've got the springs connected wrong or something, it went on without much effort which is suspicious.
-
Pictures, or even a video showing movement/play is always helpful?
-
The stand will still move even if it's twisted, so not sure what your statement
It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
Is trying to tell us? Also be aware these springs are very strong and need to be careful, removing them and you'll need a spring hook to refit them, without one it's a real pain :'(
-
The stand will still move even if it's twisted, so not sure what your statement
It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
Is trying to tell us? Also be aware these springs are very strong and need to be careful, removing them and you'll need a spring hook to refit them, without one it's a real pain :'(
Here is my centre stand refurbish post - may or may not help http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=20049.msg231622#msg231622 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=20049.msg231622#msg231622) The springs can be taken off and refitted without special tools - so long you you have a very large vocabulary of swearwords :lol
-
The stand will still move even if it's twisted, so not sure what your statement
It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
Is trying to tell us? Also be aware these springs are very strong and need to be careful, removing them and you'll need a spring hook to refit them, without one it's a real pain :'(
Do you mean refitting the stand and the spring?
That's easy?
-
@Darsi, you've confirmed that it is the springs I think. Because yes, it is easy to get them on. I'll get a video of the movement this afternoon, I've been distracted by my FZR400 over the last few days.
-
Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
-
Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
-
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
Possibly, I've never done it that way, normally there's not enough play in the mountings to allow for it. If the stand is bent/twisted as mentioned or the mountings in the frame are bent it could well do. That said it may still be possible, but not easily, now your and my 'easily' are going to be very different. It's been a little while since I've fitted a stand, but all centre stand and springs on all bikes, in my experience, are a bit of a pain to fit, regardless of what tools you have. Yes they can be fitted with bent wire, string, pliers etc, but it's still a faff, so if yours it fitting easily it's not right
-
IIRC, there are two springs on the centre stand. One inside the other. Have either snapped?
-
Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
yes I can confirm that it is not difficult, just a bit fiddly, especially kneeling down or laying on your side. Couldn't imagine what tool would help actually
-
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
Possibly, I've never done it that way, normally there's not enough play in the mountings to allow for it. If the stand is bent/twisted as mentioned or the mountings in the frame are bent it could well do. That said it may still be possible, but not easily, now your and my 'easily' are going to be very different. It's been a little while since I've fitted a stand, but all centre stand and springs on all bikes, in my experience, are a bit of a pain to fit, regardless of what tools you have. Yes they can be fitted with bent wire, string, pliers etc, but it's still a faff, so if yours it fitting easily it's not right
Maybe we've been fortunate with these bikes then, because I promise you it's a piece of piss to put one back on.
The first bolt becomes the lever point so you can pull the stand into place on the other side while stretching the spring at the same time.
I can't even imagine trying to stretch the springs any other way because of how tightly sprung they are. Even more so as there's two of them together.
-
Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
yes I can confirm that it is not difficult, just a bit fiddly, especially kneeling down or laying on your side. Couldn't imagine what tool would help actually
Not something a mechanic would have to worry about with a risen bike, but yeah, the majority of us would need to lie on the floor to do it :lol
-
Pics and vid: https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa
Yes I did the sticking it at an angle, put one bolt in then angle it the other way.
-
Pics and vid: https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa (https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa)
Yes I did the sticking it at an angle, put one bolt in then angle it the other way.
Your vid was very useful. It looks like the bolts are too tight but I cannot remember if it is even possible to overtighten them, which then makes me think - is the stand twisted, it seems to have a sticking point at a place where there should be maximum pull by the springs at about the 8 oclock position
-
Your vid was very useful. It looks like the bolts are too tight but I cannot remember if it is even possible to overtighten them, which then makes me think - is the stand twisted, it seems to have a sticking point at a place where there should be maximum pull by the springs at about the 8 oclock position
I did them at about 30Nm, is it safer to have them looser? There's maximum extension of the springs at that point, but it's like going over a circle so the component of the force that moves the stand is least.
I think I should get it off and clean it up a bit better in there too.
-
Bolts are shouldered and cannot be overtighten to cause the sticking.
A few possibilities for sticking, one of the two springs is broken, two the hinge part of the stand is multi layer steel and when it rusts it can swell the layers enough to cause the sticking and three it was painted and two much paint in the holes on the stand..
The only way to be sure is remove the stand and check it.
Any I came across with the rust issue I usually grind it down a bit until it moves freely.
-
Bolts are shouldered and cannot be overtighten to cause the sticking.
A few possibilities for sticking, one of the two springs is broken, two the hinge part of the stand is multi layer steel and when it rusts it can swell the layers enough to cause the sticking and three it was painted and two much paint in the holes on the stand..
The only way to be sure is remove the stand and check it.
Any I came across with the rust issue I usually grind it down a bit until it moves freely.
Another possibility, which I know is the case with mine, is the whole thing is covered in crap and old grease. I need to just take mine off, give it a good clean and grease up before putting it back on again. I had the same issue with the side stand.
-
It's clean, but paint in the wrong spot and surface rust around the pivot points are strong suspects. I had a go at the stand, but didn't do anything with the frame side. I'm pretty sure I've got paint touching watching my own video. I'll get it off again and have a go at it.
What's best for getting rust off in this situation, a file? or wire brush on a drill bit?
The outside spring isn't broken, but poor. The inside one pulls so must be whole too. No one knows how I can replace the springs? That's the one thing I still need I think, the rest you've been stars on, thank you.
-
It's clean, but paint in the wrong spot and surface rust around the pivot points are strong suspects. I had a go at the stand, but didn't do anything with the frame side. I'm pretty sure I've got paint touching watching my own video. I'll get it off again and have a go at it.
What's best for getting rust off in this situation, a file? or wire brush on a drill bit?
The outside spring isn't broken, but poor. The inside one pulls so must be whole too. No one knows how I can replace the springs? That's the one thing I still need I think, the rest you've been stars on, thank you.
Link for the springs is in my first post. Bit expensive though.
-
Link for the springs is in my first post. Bit expensive though.
Sorry, I missed that. Yowsers, 27 quid for springs. I could get them from my last work for less than a fiver for sure, if I could get the dimensions. I guess I'll measure what I've got and take a punt.
-
When you remove the springs check the movement, it should be very free, not sticky.
-
Link for the springs is in my first post. Bit expensive though.
Sorry, I missed that. Yowsers, 27 quid for springs. I could get them from my last work for less than a fiver for sure, if I could get the dimensions. I guess I'll measure what I've got and take a punt.
Looking at the video,my money would be on either the stand being twisted, or something causing rubbing at the joints. I don't reckon it's the springs.
As Unfazed says, if you take one of the bolts off, unhook the spring, then replace the bolt again and see if the stand still has that jerky movement and it will answer the question.
-
Looking at the video,my money would be on either the stand being twisted, or something causing rubbing at the joints. I don't reckon it's the springs.
As Unfazed says, if you take one of the bolts off, unhook the spring, then replace the bolt again and see if the stand still has that jerky movement and it will answer the question.
:agree :thumbup
-
OK so it's working ok. I had it off and got the dremel on everything, no paint or rust. In the hole, on the sides, on the frame, on the stand. I also noticed that it moves ok without the nuts on, so I've got them on at 20Nm now instead of 30, which I'm hoping is ok with the lock nuts and threadlock.
It doesn't seem bent, I've added pictures to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa
Thank you all for your guidance, lots of good stuff on here.
-
https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa[/url]
They also suffer a crush effect when falling over, this pushes one leg in, raising the height of the bridging section the the spring attaches to. Thus reducing the spring tension and how much it pulls the stand up, when bent and it doesn't take much they flap like yours is. The loosening the bolts will have no effect as the stand was freely moving, over tightening does as they stick.
-
It doesn't seem bent, I've added pictures to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa (https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa)
Thank you all for your guidance, lots of good stuff on here.
Why have you got 4 boxes of bananas in your garage :lol
-
Why have you got 4 boxes of bananas in your garage :lol
Do you think that's not enough bananas? Are you selling any? ;)
-
Why have you got 4 boxes of bananas in your garage :lol
Just for you Fazersharp: (https://i.imgur.com/CCPgmTX.jpg?1)
-
Are those marks on the floor your centre stand dragging :lol
-
The workmate dragging with the clamp attached ;) See if you can see it in the picture, you are very Eagle eyed!
-
The workmate dragging with the clamp attached ;) See if you can see it in the picture, you are very Eagle eyed!
That's where my user name comes from ;) Yes you have dragged it almost out of the shot. Hows your cat ?
-
Hows your cat ?
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
-
My center stand did the same thing to me last month. I checked the spring and then sprayed it with some WD40, then I raised and lowered it a few times to work the oil in and it was just fine. Sometime dirt and oil get into the bolts and need to be ceaned out an lubricated.