Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: Dustydes on 15 August 2017, 05:54:49 pm
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Who's good on electrics. Bike interlock system
Side stand problem Ive had since I brought the bike.
The side stand switch has been disconnected and wire to loom bridged.
If I reconnect the side stand electrics I get the following.
Side stand down in Neutral wont start
With clutch in, in neutral it starts
Put into gear it cuts out.
Side stand up runs and goes into gear
So clutch switch works
Gear selector switch works
Side stand switch works
Bike did have alarm fitted which last owner had removed and wires left disconnected as in pic they are labeled but cant see too clearly and don't want to disturb just yet but will sort out tomorrow with heat shrink.
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Are the disconnected alarm wires at the standard alarm connector? If so there are two pairs that have to be connected (looped). These would be cut and fed into an alarm. One pair inhibits the ignition circuit, the other inhibits the starter circuit. I'd check those first. If those are ok then its onto the relay/diode assembly behind left side panel.
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What bike is it?
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What bike is it?
Gen1 1000 2002
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OK
So following on from the facebook thread.....
When the side stand is down it wont start unless you pull the clutch lever in, does it stay running when you release the lever?
If so, I would suspect that this is working as it is designed to. Can others with an FZS1000 confirm?
Many bikes I have had you had to pull the clutch in to start the bike. Doing this removes the drag of the gearbox from the starter motor making the bike easier to start.
If it cuts out when you release the lever then you have an issue (assuming it is in neutral). Putting the bike into gear will cut out the engine if the side stand is down. They are designed that way and are the reason for the side stand switch.
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In neutral fzs1000 starts with sidestand down without touching the clutch (at least mine does and has done from new). Will cut out if put into gear with sidestand down as you say. Will start only start in gear with sidestand up and clutch in.
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In neutral fzs1000 starts with sidestand down without touching the clutch (at least mine does and has done from new). Will cut out if put into gear with sidestand down as you say. Will start only start in gear with sidestand up and clutch in.
Mine wont start in neutral with side stand down.
But will with clutch in.
Will start only start in gear with sidestand up and clutch in.
So yours wont start with side stand down in gear clutch in ??
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If the bike is in gear, the side stand must be up on any bike regardless of clutch position or it will cut out. it is a safety feature.
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"So yours wont start with side stand down in gear clutch in ??" - that's correct. Not only will it not start, engine will cut out if bike put into gear with sidestand down - clutch of course is "in" when you drop it into gear. As BBrown says its a safety feature on all modern bikes.
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"So yours wont start with side stand down in gear clutch in ??" - that's correct. Not only will it not start, engine will cut out if bike put into gear with sidestand down - clutch of course is "in" when you drop it into gear. As BBrown says its a safety feature on all modern bikes.
Mine wont start with side stand down in neutral
Will start with clutch in
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Are the disconnected alarm wires at the standard alarm connector? If so there are two pairs that have to be connected (looped). These would be cut and fed into an alarm. One pair inhibits the ignition circuit, the other inhibits the starter circuit. I'd check those first. If those are ok then its onto the relay/diode assembly behind left side panel.
There is one wire with writing that says ignition, left cut. None of the wires are looped. Will have to remove tape on others to read. Was going to do it today but had family problem to sort out so no time.
Wires are nearside behind cross member. Battery > cross member > battery > wires
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Mine starts (there's an improvement!) in neutral with the clutch out.
Attached is a pic of the cables referred to for comparison.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4391/36214718310_8d2074c68b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XbaU41)Looped cables (https://flic.kr/p/XbaU41) by d.a.thornber@btinternet.com (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156757295@N05/), on Flickr
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Thanks reggit will check tomorrow.
Mine starts (there's an improvement!) in neutral with the clutch out.
Attached is a pic of the cables referred to for comparison.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4391/36214718310_8d2074c68b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XbaU41)Looped cables (https://flic.kr/p/XbaU41) by d.a.thornber@btinternet.com (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156757295@N05/), on Flickr
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Just a quick note on how this works, :lol
Side stand and Neutral switches.
The side stand in the up position a switch closes and sends an earth through a diode (1) via the ignition switch to the Ignitor, wiithout this earth the Ignitor will not fire the plugs.
With the side stand down the earth which operates the neutral light switch, is now used instead to keep the bike running, when the bike is in neutral an earth is sent through a different diode (2) via the same circuit in the Iginition switch to the ignitor.
The neutral light operates through a different diode (3) to prevent back feeding 12volts to the starter cut out circuit.
But this is only part of the setup
These earths are also sent to the Starter cut out relay and without one of these earths the starter cut relay will not operate and the Starter solonoid will not operate therefore starter motor will not turn.
Therefore with the bike in gear and the sidestand down these earth are missing bike will not start even if you try bump starting it with the side stand down it will not start.
Starter solonoid and Starter cut out relay
When the bike is in neutral the earth is sent through a different diode (4) to the starter cut out relay thus operating the starter cut out relay which in turn allows the Starter Solonoid to operate and turn the starter motor.
However with the sidestand up and in gear, when you pull in the clutch lever the clutch switch reroutes the earth from the sidestand switch to the Starter cut out relay and the Starter Solonoid will operate because it bypasses diode (4)
It appears in you case since the Neutral light works and the bike will only start in neutral with the clutch pulled in would appear that diode 4 is knackered.
To test this diode take note of where the Black/Yellow and the Blue wires are connected and put a meter accross these pins and note the reading, now reverse the leads on the pins and note the reading. If the diode is working then you will have continunity or very low resistance one way and no continunity or very very high resistance the other way as the Diode allows current flow in one direction only.
For easy remembering when following wiring diagrams positive flows in direction of the Diode Arrow.
There! now you know :lol
If it is the problem and since these are not repairable and are not a common failure, second hand ones should be easy to come by.
The same one is fitted to the early carburettored R1s, R6s and all the Fazer 1000s.
It is possible the failure was caused by careless removal of the alarm.
See attached Picture
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It appears in you case since the Neutral light works and the bike will only start in neutral with the clutch pulled in would appear that diode 4 is
not knackered. :)
Excellent write up though ...
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Characticus,
Thank you, well spotted, corrected now :thumbup Was going to write "not working" but knackered sounded better and changed it, but forgot to remove the NOT :lol
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Thanks for the indepth replys.
Just to add but was left out as it might have caused some confusion at start.
Whoever tried to sort this did so by unplugging side stand switch and bridging wires. So in this state the bike will start but can be ridden with side down as no switch.
By relay you mean the starter relay that connects direct to + on battery.
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The unit that connects directly to + on the battery is the solonoid this is a relay with very large contacts, but since the starter motor turns and the bike starts the solonoid is ok.
Bridging the wires as on the unpluged sides stand is the same as having the side stand up when connected normally as it is just bypassing the side stand switch, which is why the bke could be ridden with the side stand down. Not recomended :eek
The unit I believe you need is the biggest box under the left side panel, officially known as the Starting Circuit Cut Off Relay and the part number is 5EB-81950-20. Some sellers call it the Fuel Pump Relay because it contains the Fuel Pump Relay :eek .
I would try some where like Fazerspares or put a wanted ad in the for sale section.
Be aware a brand new one in Fowlers is £47 + Vat, so don't get conned to paying silly money for a second hand one
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Thanks unfazed
Got it, did think it was fuel pump relay.
As for alarm guessing wires are ok? I have all black no plugs, so cut off.
1 marked LH indicator not connected
1 marked RH indicator not connected
2 wires joined marked clutch circuit
2 wire joined marked starter circuit
1 marked earth not connected
1 marked +12V not connected
1 unmarked
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1 marked LH indicator not connected Connected to the alarm via diode. Allows the indicators to flash when alarm activated,
1 marked RH indicator not connected Connected to the alarm via diode Allows the indicators to flash when alarm activated
2 wires joined marked clutch circuit Name doesnt sound right usually the kill switch or side stand switch circuits
2 wire joined marked starter circuit Sounds right disables the starting circuit
1 marked earth not connected Earth for alarm
1 marked +12V not connected Could be the switched 12v or pernament 12v for the alarm Check if this remains on if Ignition switch is off
1 unmarked Could be the switched 12v or pernament 12v for the alarm Check this to see what it is.
Diode prevents back feeding to the alarm when Indicators are operated normally.
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2 wires joined marked clutch circuit Name doesnt sound right usually the kill switch or side stand switch circuits
Does it sound right apart from name.
Just had another look, its not clear but on the other side it says CDI circuit. and what I thought was clutch could be switch cdi circuit
Relay on its way, get it Thursday
Thanks
Des
Des
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Yes, CDI would sound more like it
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Yes, CDI would sound more like it
Thanks unfazed
Hope relay arrives tomorrow, will update.
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Relay arrived today and all sorted now.
Big thanks to unfazed
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:thumbup
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:thumbup
Don't you just love this forum with the wealth of knowledge and the will to share it.
Good on you unfazed :D