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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: cl1ve2004 on 10 August 2017, 06:49:15 pm
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just had a mini windfall (tax ha ha ) got £400 ish which I'd like to spend on rear shocker..Anyone got advice or preference.. preferably coz they have one :rollin ...any make (already got the R6 one fitted)other than the above ??
Cheers
Clive
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Tbh you would not notice a difference even if you fit an ohlins ttx. I would get the r6 shock serviced/setup and a spring to suit you (if not already).
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I am a big fan of Nitron shocks, It's the first thing I do to any bike I own. Nitron rear shock and fork internals to match.
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I'm another fan of Nitron shocks, mine transformed the handling of my GEN1 coming from the OEM shock. I am inclined though to agree with NorthWestern I'm not sure that the outlay of ~£600 is going to be worth it as you already have a fairly decent replacement. Getting the R6 shock serviced and resprung if appropriate would be a good move if it's more than a couple of years old, and spend the change on getting the forks sorted or getting the bike Ivanised if you haven't already.
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Yet one more Nitron fan.
I fitted the Nitron R1 shock to my FZS600 last winter + other mods to the front forks.
The Nitron R1 was built for me by Nitron and built to suit my rider weight fully clothed ready to ride, it was set up perfectly with just the tiniest adjustment because I have lost about a stone in weight since it was built.
The ride is plush with the rebound damping so much better than the Yamaha shock, the back wheel returns to the neutral position fast but the wheel stays in contact with the road, the bottoming out that was happening when riding two up has disappeared, as has the getting thrown off the saddle when hitting large fast bumps.
As I have heard others say a decent shock on the back just highlights the cheap front forks.
There are things that can be done that will help the front end situation, but it will cost you another £150. The Nitron was approx £450
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The Nitron was approx £450
I don't know what model you got for £450 but this will only buy you the base model now which only has a single damping adjuster that affects both compression and rebound and does not have a remote reservoir so in terms of features is below the standard of the OEM shock let alone the R6 unit which I believe has high / low speed adjustment. The NTR-R2 has the same features of the OEM shock and is £610 + VAT the NTR-R3 which has the same features as the R6 shock is £680 + VAT - http://www.nitron.co.uk/catalogue_main.php?catID=12794 (http://www.nitron.co.uk/catalogue_main.php?catID=12794)
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I hadn't thought about getting the R6 shock resprung etc..or perhaps a rebuild on the OE one which only did 25k miles :b
Any recommendations for rebuilds etc ??(loads on t'internet)
Once I have enuff info I'll decide whether to go new or rebuild one..could always sell the R6 or OE shock :rollin :rollin
Thanks Guys
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£400 will get you a bloody good weekend away on the bike. Go do a tour somewhere.
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The NTR-R2 has the same features of the OEM shock and is £610 + VAT the NTR-R3
Features surely is not the same as quality. And of course just getting the right spring in there makes a big difference.
Don't know anything about the R6 shock.
I got the K-Tech upgrade 10 odd years ago. It's really good but sadly no longer available. Can't say I'm one for fiddling with settings. They sent it with a spring to suit my weight and 'neutral' settings dialed in. I fitted it and rode off, found it superb compared to the OE shock but I've never got round to fiddling wi the settings. Not sure I'd know what I was doing or looking for.
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Features surely is not the same as quality.
Of course not, but to my mind sacrificing the ability to independently adjust the compression and rebound damping is not something that I would consider to be an upgrade regardless of the quality. I would much rather have the OEM shock refurbished and resprung or have an R6 shock and retain the full range of adjustments. I would actually be put off buying a bike with that level of suspension on it regardless of the badge. However if you don't bother adjusting your suspension for whatever reason then I can see the appeal but would question whether you are getting the best out of your bike.
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but would question whether you are getting the best out of your bike.
She was when I got her in 2004 more capable than I and reamins so. :)
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but would question whether you are getting the best out of your bike.
She was when I got her in 2004 more capable than I and reamins so. :)
I know where you are coming from they are great bikes and are still more than capable of holding their own against the modern competition.
I was never one to play around with my suspension settings until I bought my GEN1 and came to learn how crap the OEM shock was and then how things could be improved. On my quest to get the bike handling as well as it could I found a really helpful chap on these forums called Malc who was an ex racer and who took me out for an afternoon to help me get my suspension set up after I had fitted my Nitron shock. I was able to feel the difference that each change to the damping made (front and rear) and came away from the experience with the bike handling optimally and much more confidence inspiring. I had to revisit the suspension settings when I swapped out my 25mm jack-up kit for a 50mm kit as this impacted on the compression, again after I lost 5 stones in weight, and again after I upgraded the front suspension. I have to say that I found learning about how the different settings affected the bikes handling very interesting and being able to use these to set the bikes handling to how I want very rewarding.
I hope this helps clarify where I'm coming from when I say that I personally wouldn't buy a suspension component that restricts the range of available adjustments and that from my experience getting the best from your bike entails using the available options to get the suspension set up optimally for your own riding style and the types of road you like to ride.
I have no disrespect for folks who choose not to fiddle with their suspension as I was in those ranks for decades.
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I was never one to play around with my suspension settings until I bought my GEN1 and came to learn how crap the OEM shock was and then how things could be improved.
I think the big problem with the OE shock was the weak spring, it was too softly sprung for the average rider, that in turn meant eventually it burn’t oot the damping which was being overworked and certainly my rear shock was as effective as your average pogo stick after 12,000 miles. The bike was trying to kill me at times.
But yeah my OE shock long ago turned into a three way adjustable K-Tech unit, and shockingly :eek I’ve never fiddled with it. I did fiddle with the OE shock, I turned the preload up full and eventually everything else up full.
I did intend getting sending the front forks off to K-Tech at some point but never quite got round to it. The OE front is OK (umm as far as I am concerned) but it’s a bit choppy and unresponsive and I’m well aware it could be a lot better, but it’s not trying to throw me off like the OE rear shock was.
I found a really helpful chap on these forums called Malc who was an ex racer and who took me out for an afternoon to help me get my suspension set up after I had fitted my Nitron shock.
That’s just it. I hear what you are saying. But me fine tuning suspension – I don’t really have a clue. I do like the look of Nitron’s hydraulic preload adjuster – that’s handy. 8)
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£400 will get you a bloody good weekend away on the bike. Go do a tour somewhere.
I'm inclined to agree with this, but otoh, that weekend away on the bike will be much more enjoyable if the thing is handling nicely in the first place.
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£400 will get you a bloody good weekend away on the bike. Go do a tour somewhere.
I'm inclined to agree with this, but otoh, that weekend away on the bike will be much more enjoyable if the thing is handling nicely in the first place.
OH NOOOOOOOOO!!! What a dilemma you have given the poor OP! :'( modify - ride - modify - ride - modify - ride...Aaaarrgh! :eek
Spend a few quid servicing up the R6 mod-shock set up & then buy several tanks of petrol with the rest!
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I had an R6 shock and a pricey Nitron NTR R2 shock at the same time and ran them both when I had my 1000.
The Nitron felt fractionally better but honestly, not by that much. Just refresh / rebuild what you have.
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well I've decided to get a Wilbers shock and it's on the way..I'll let everyone know the difference (if any) between the R6 and custom
built shock.. :o be pissed off if there is no real gain from the new one :\
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TBH a lot depends on how and where you ride.
If you ride in the dry on good roads once a month well within the speed limit, no lean angle and late acceleration then you probably won't notice much of a difference from the r6 mod.
On the other hand if you ride every day In varied weather and road conditions, like to make progress, accelerate before the apex and want to be able to control a rear end slide then the difference will be night and day.
I find that a lot of people ride the same with a decent shock as they did with the oem and say there's no difference, you only really notice it when you up your game.
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well I've decided to get a Wilbers shock and it's on the way.
Which model did you go for?
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went for the basic one with the type 640 road..adjustable rebound damping and spring made for my weight..I am a corner addict so I'm hoping the exit on cornering will be better especially now I've got ktech linear springs in the front as well.. :lol £435 total so not too shocking :D
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Think the first thing you'll notice is that you can hold a tighter line when accelerating out as the rebound will be doing it's job.
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Think the first thing you'll notice is that you can hold a tighter line when accelerating out as the rebound will be doing it's job.[/size][/font]
How do you know the rebound isn't doing it's job on the R6 shock? Unlike Kebab19 you don't say that you have personal experience of the R6 unit as well as your Nitron. Kebab19 is not the only person with direct experience of the R6 shock and a quality aftermarket whose opinion is that the R6 shock is as good as you need - http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,22826.msg263578.html#msg263578 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,22826.msg263578.html#msg263578)
went for the basic one with the type 640 road..adjustable rebound damping and spring made for my weight..I am a corner addict so I'm hoping the exit on cornering will be better especially now I've got ktech linear springs in the front as well.. :lol £435 total so not too shocking :D
I hope it makes the difference you are looking for, a lot will depend on the condition of your current R6 shock and your particular riding style, keep us posted.
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i'm 20 kilos heavier than falcon (Mike gtx) that's why I'm hoping the new shock will outperform the R6 setup..will deffo post again after a couple of weeks of riding :b
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Think the first thing you'll notice is that you can hold a tighter line when accelerating out as the rebound will be doing it's job.
How do you know the rebound isn't doing it's job on the R6 shock? Unlike Kebab19 you don't say that you have personal experience of the R6 unit as well as your Nitron. Kebab19 is not the only person with direct experience of the R6 shock and a quality aftermarket whose opinion is that the R6 shock is as good as you need - [url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,22826.msg263578.html#msg263578[/url] ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,22826.msg263578.html#msg263578[/url])
You are absolutely correct, I have no experience of the R6 shock on the FZ1 but I do have experience of it on the R6 and it's just awful there.
Like all Yamaha shocks I have encountered it is way under sprung and under damped. To this end I only respectfully suggest that a shock designed to work for a large variety of riders on a bike that only weighs 190Kg is not going to work as well on a bike that weighs 220kg with different swingarm/linkage geometry as a shock that is specifically built for a riders weight, bike and riding style/requirements.
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You are absolutely correct, I have no experience of the R6 shock on the FZ1 but I do have experience of it on the R6 and it's just awful there.
Like all Yamaha shocks I have encountered it is way under sprung and under damped. To this end I only respectfully suggest that a shock designed to work for a large variety of riders on a bike that only weighs 190Kg is not going to work as well on a bike that weighs 220kg with different swingarm/linkage geometry as a shock that is specifically built for a riders weight, bike and riding style/requirements.
Checking Luke's thread on the R6 mod shows that the majority of people are more than happy with the results, I suspect (Luke might be able to confirm) that the difference in geometry has the effect of firming the compression damping similar to when you fit shorter dog bones.
For those that aren't happy it will be more cost effective to get the R6 shock re-sprung, re-valved, and serviced to the riders specifications than buying a new shock, which will often lack the range of adjustment found on the R6 unit.
Of course at times we all suffer from the compulsion to buy something new and shiny and there's nothing wrong with that :D
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You are absolutely correct, I have no experience of the R6 shock on the FZ1 but I do have experience of it on the R6 and it's just awful there.
Like all Yamaha shocks I have encountered it is way under sprung and under damped. To this end I only respectfully suggest that a shock designed to work for a large variety of riders on a bike that only weighs 190Kg is not going to work as well on a bike that weighs 220kg with different swingarm/linkage geometry as a shock that is specifically built for a riders weight, bike and riding style/requirements.
Checking Luke's thread on the R6 mod shows that the majority of people are more than happy with the results, I suspect (Luke might be able to confirm) that the difference in geometry has the effect of firming the compression damping similar to when you fit shorter dog bones.
For those that aren't happy it will be more cost effective to get the R6 shock re-sprung, re-valved, and serviced to the riders specifications than buying a new shock, which will often lack the range of adjustment found on the R6 unit.
Of course at times we all suffer from the compulsion to buy something new and shiny and there's nothing wrong with that :D
Not suggesting anyone is wrong when they say they are happy with the R6 shock or that it is adequate. Just posting my personal view on the subject.
Compulsion to buy something new and shiny......
Yes well, it sometimes feels like most performance parts suppliers have direct access to my bank account and just send me anything new that comes in.
This weekend it's getting a full service with iridium plugs and k&n filter going in and unless I can find an excuse not to, before winter sets in I'll be buying the cables and software to flash the ECU and play around with the fuelling and various other parameters like fuel cut off and quick shift enabling.
The only thing I can't really justify is a slipper clutch.
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It will be interesting to read how the OP gets on with the Wilbers, once the roads dried out (having bought my bike in February) my riding got more progressive and the stock shock started to show it's short comings. Being on a budget I spent £100 on a 2nd hand BMW S1000RR shock and the difference was immediately apparent. I'd also spent £50 on a 2nd hand Ohlins spring for my weight at the time but I've yet to bother fitting it as I'm happy with the stock BMW unit so far. :)
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update on the Wilbers shock ...have done a couple of sessions around local roads sorting out the front end (finally)..and now the new shock and the front end are working really well together...
Wilbers shock with spring for my weight is perfect ..rebound damping spot on..set from factory...rider and bike sag cock on for me..I decided on the basic shock as I'm not likely to need low and high compression for my requirements..
Verdict..the Wilbers is like the difference between stock shock and R6 mod shock..that much better again..Damping is very sensitive one turn up or down is a noticeable difference as I have tried minor adjustments while sorting the front out..Wilbers spring is easy to adjust having played with it just to see..Quality bit of kit..
Not saying the shock is all singing and dancing but the road ride is loads better than with stock or R6 shock,not surprising as it's built to your weight etc..
Front now has Ktech linear springs 9.5..with 10wt fork oil..settings are compression 8 clicks out from hard.. rebound 10 clicks out from hard..
rides like a different machine...
Well happy :lol
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fair play there's some bollox spouted about suspension here.
the r6 units damping is set for a 350lb bike, so fitting it onto a 450lb fazer is a bit of an ask. luckily the spring rate is ideal for a fazer so the damping has an easy time of it (on the road at least).
i'm back with a standard re gassed/oiled and resprung oe unit after my r6 unit died on track.
the units supplied by luke are 0 mileage units so the oil is nice and fresh so you feel the benefit immediately. i doubt many will last 10k before they get squishy, but at least the spring rate will still be close so will mask most of the symptoms.
FYI the r6 has a 40mm chamber vs 46mm for the fazer.
regarding separate damping circuits, for serious work then yes you need separate circuits to maximise tyre usage, however for road use, a 2:1 ratio is close enough........providing the spring is right.
spring first, then the damping.
furthermore, the TTX units are 36mm chambers and ohlins recommend they are rebuilt every year. the finer adjustment, the more you have to look after it. most peeps on here only change their fork oil when the seal blows.
BTW i used to work for Jim Moodie, so know a thing or 2 about spanner wanking
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fair play there's some bollox spouted about suspension here.....most peeps on here only change their fork oil when the seal blows........BTW i used to work for Jim Moodie, so know a thing or 2 about spanner wanking
Wind your neck in mate :rolleyes You've only been on these forums a couple of months, you're entitled to your opinions of course as you are entitled to do whatever you want with spanners in your spare time :eek but don't be judging people you know nothing about when it comes to their experience or servicing habits, there's room for any number of opinions and lines of advice it's not just yours that matters.
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Lots of interesting opinions to read and that's what the site is for no right or wrong.
I have fitted the R6 shock and weigh in at 15stone with leathers etc.
What I can say is that it is a great mod and changed the way my bike handled corners by an amazing amount.
I cannot claim all of this was down to the R6 shock as the old one was old :-) but forking out to revamp an old shock or fit a 2500 mile R6 was a no brainer for me and no waiting time for revamp.
From what I read before fitting the shorter dog bones help firm up the shock and I have not had to set spring to max for my weight.
Luke is the main man for the mod and I have not read any complaints from his customers, although I did mine myself.
Having said all that I have just brought a Hyperpro even though I know I cant out perform the R6 I just couldn't resist a purple spring shock.
And before I get any remarks it's my money and I can waste it on what I want, just don't tell the Mrs ;-)
Not fitted yet but time will tell.
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I have a Maxton RT10 on my Fazer and was absolutely astonished at the difference it made.
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fair play there's some bollox spouted about suspension here.....most peeps on here only change their fork oil when the seal blows........BTW i used to work for Jim Moodie, so know a thing or 2 about spanner wanking
Wind your neck in mate :rolleyes You've only been on these forums a couple of months
err............i've been on here since 2010, and yuku before then, just as someone else.
and who died and left you in charge anyway?
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fair play there's some bollox spouted about suspension here.....most peeps on here only change their fork oil when the seal blows........BTW i used to work for Jim Moodie, so know a thing or 2 about spanner wanking
Wind your neck in mate :rolleyes You've only been on these forums a couple of months
err............i've been on here since 2010, and yuku before then, just as someone else.
and who died and left you in charge anyway?
Funny, I've been on here since 2010 too, as someone else. I also know of two others who are old members and now have new names.
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fair play there's some bollox spouted about suspension here.....most peeps on here only change their fork oil when the seal blows........BTW i used to work for Jim Moodie, so know a thing or 2 about spanner wanking
Wind your neck in mate :rolleyes You've only been on these forums a couple of months
err............i've been on here since 2010, and yuku before then, just as someone else.
and who died and left you in charge anyway?
Why do I need to be in charge to find your attitude and personal comments about myself and other forum members offensive? As for bollox being spouted about suspension I find that pretty hypocritical given your comment in the dog-bone thread that I had to correct for you.
BTW If you have a legitimate reason for changing your forum name the administrators can do this for you as per Hedgetrimmer and you get to keep your post count.
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fair play there's some bollox spouted about suspension here.....most peeps on here only change their fork oil when the seal blows........BTW i used to work for Jim Moodie, so know a thing or 2 about spanner wanking
Wind your neck in mate :rolleyes You've only been on these forums a couple of months
err............i've been on here since 2010, and yuku before then, just as someone else.
and who died and left you in charge anyway?
Why do I need to be in charge to find your attitude and personal comments about myself and other forum members offensive? As for bollox being spouted about suspension I find that pretty hypocritical given your comment in the dog-bone thread that I had to correct for you.
BTW If you have a legitimate reason for changing your forum name the administrators can do this for you as per Hedgetrimmer and you get to keep your post count.
Righto fucknuts
Hypocrite eh. My statement was correct. If you lengthen the dog bones it softens the suspension.
I made no allusion to whether or not it raises or lowers the rear ride height.
And as for my new identity, i don't give a flying fuck about post counts, if someone has something interesting or informative to say, listen, don't judge on their post count. Falcon269 only ever started with 1 post.
Ps I hope you're offended this time.
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What 5LV says about the R6 shock makes sense to me. That said, I'm a lightweight (in more ways than one LOL!) and give the shock a lot less to do than the bigger lads on here. Anyone who has twirled spanners and worked on suspension for Jim Moodie is worth listening to, IMHO. Certainly see no reason for anyone to be getting heated in this discussion. :)
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well said Mike I was beginning to wish I'd never started the thread :o .. let's all call it a day ....