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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: jackomet on 05 June 2017, 04:31:01 pm

Title: Start delay
Post by: jackomet on 05 June 2017, 04:31:01 pm

Just got a 2002 Fazer, everything fine but I have to wait a minute or so before the I can start it.  Battery tested OK and no problems when it starts, runs great.  Stop it and then it starts straight away?
Any ideas?
JK
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: bandit on 05 June 2017, 05:09:07 pm
Hi, can you give us a bit more info,like do you here a clicking sound when you switch on,does the bike turn over when you first press the button turn over quickly or slowly initially. Don't discount the battery just yet as you said once it's started it runs fine & when you turn it off & restart it all's ok putting some charge into the battery.
If the battery is the original (japan motor co)one then it is probably due for renewal or may need a good recharge.     
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: daviee on 05 June 2017, 06:32:21 pm
more info needed
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: jackomet on 05 June 2017, 10:38:13 pm

OK, key in, ignition on, all panel lights on, press starter, zip, lights don't dim as if power was on the starter motor, no clicks, no noise.  Wait a couple of minutes, press starter and it fires up no problem.  Could be a delay on the immobiliser?  Not new to Fazers BTW, bought my first from new T reg.
JK
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: His Dudeness on 06 June 2017, 12:17:11 am
could be corrosion in the starter button. try a spray of wd40 into the button and see if that improves it.
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: kgjersda on 06 June 2017, 07:31:29 am
could be corrosion in the starter button. try a spray of wd40 into the button and see if that improves it.


I had this exact thing! WD40 solved it. :)
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: Jules-C on 06 June 2017, 09:29:03 am
If it's exactly the same every time then unlikely to be poor contact as that would be more erratic. Immobiliser always makes it trickier and could be the cause of the problem
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: daviee on 06 June 2017, 05:26:08 pm
i would say starter  solenoid easy to check  switch the ignition on then bridge the two big power wires that go to it if it starts strait away then that your problem
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: jackomet on 07 June 2017, 02:49:44 pm

Hi,
Checked the solenoid, OK.  Shorted the started terminals and the engine turns but doesn't fire.  Beginning to suspect the Datatool alarm/immobiliser. When I first got it everything worked OK.  Does anyone know how to remove these things, Datatool reckon it has to be done vis a dealer? 


JK
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: darrsi on 07 June 2017, 04:22:33 pm
You say it starts okay straight after you 've got it running then switched off/on again.
Do you have these problems after the bike is left stationary for quite a while as in overnight, or all day?

Also, are you trying to start it when the bike's on the side stand?
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: daviee on 07 June 2017, 05:21:20 pm
data tool are c###ts and will not supply wiring diagrams or how too,s
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: unfazed on 07 June 2017, 08:48:31 pm

Hi,
Checked the solenoid, OK.  Shorted the started terminals and the engine turns but doesn't fire.  Beginning to suspect the Datatool alarm/immobiliser. When I first got it everything worked OK.  Does anyone know how to remove these things, Datatool reckon it has to be done vis a dealer? 
JK

Any idea which model of datatool it is?
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: darrsi on 08 June 2017, 06:19:33 am

Hi,
Checked the solenoid, OK.  Shorted the started terminals and the engine turns but doesn't fire.  Beginning to suspect the Datatool alarm/immobiliser. When I first got it everything worked OK.  Does anyone know how to remove these things, Datatool reckon it has to be done vis a dealer? 
JK

Any idea which model of datatool it is?


Datatool sounds like some political dating agency  :lol
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: jackomet on 08 June 2017, 10:11:24 am

Hi,
Now it won't start, turn over, zip, ignition lights on bot no go,  It's a DataTool S4-C1 red,  Turns out the bike has been in a garage unused without a battery in it for nearly 2 years, which means the DataTool back up battery back went flat.  DataTool reckons, in their manual, that it unit may now need to be replaced, yeah right.  So I may need to get on to my pickup and take it to a DataTool dealer, much rather just rip it out, but without the circuit diagrams it would be difficult as the bloody thing is wired into everything.  Weird thing is when I took the main bike battery out to charge it the alarm went off (maybe life in the DataTool battery after all, but it appears to be screwed) and I haven't got the PIN number to re-set it to "factory settings".  At least I've still got my original Fazer to ride ATM but the idea was to sell that as I've got this newer one.
Pissed off JK. :'(
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 08 June 2017, 10:35:32 am
data tool are c###ts and will not supply wiring diagrams or how too,s

That's because you could be a thieving bastard that wants to steal something.
its also proprietary information that you could sell on
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: unfazed on 08 June 2017, 03:11:51 pm

Simplest thing to do is buy a replacement and plug it in.
If you have and can use a multimeter, removal of it would not be outside the scope of of a home mechanic.
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: His Dudeness on 08 June 2017, 03:49:35 pm
It's a bit extreme but could you take the whole loom out and replace it with a standard one? They're cheap and it'd require almost zero electrical skill http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-FAZER-600-MAIN-WIRING-LOOM-HARNESS-FZS600-FZS-99-5DM-/400606303157?hash=item5d45ff13b5:g:Aq8AAMXQUmFSgliI (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-FAZER-600-MAIN-WIRING-LOOM-HARNESS-FZS600-FZS-99-5DM-/400606303157?hash=item5d45ff13b5:g:Aq8AAMXQUmFSgliI)
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: unfazed on 08 June 2017, 08:13:47 pm
Wouldn't go trying to fit that on a 2002 fazer  :eek :D The 1998 to 2001 harness is very different to the 2002, 2003 one.

Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: His Dudeness on 08 June 2017, 08:27:14 pm
Wouldn't go trying to fit that on a 2002 fazer  :eek :D The 1998 to 2001 harness is very different to the 2002, 2003 one.

 ;) i looked at the bike under his profile name.
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: jackomet on 12 June 2017, 10:31:23 pm

Hi guys
Update, after lots of phone call and googling the shit out of everything to do with Datatool AKA Scorpion, turns out that there's a recall on this unit and Scorpion will fit a new one FOC!  RESULT!
So just waiting for mobile techie to come and replace the unit.
I am, or will be, a very happy bunny. 
Thanks for all your comments/help.
JK
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: darrsi on 13 June 2017, 12:11:32 am
If someone really wants to nick your bike, they will, especially the pro's.
Alarms cause nothing but electrical issues.
Old school meaty chains are the best deterrent.
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 13 June 2017, 08:35:47 am
If the bike is fitted with an alarm using the standard plug in section under the seat, its easy to remove. Just unplug it and plug in the bypass plug that was there from the factory.
Did this on my Tiger and the replacement plug was £3 from Triumph. Knowing Yamaha, it will be about £30 though if you haven't got it still.
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: Slaninar on 13 June 2017, 08:03:28 pm
If someone really wants to nick your bike, they will, especially the pro's.
Alarms cause nothing but electrical issues.
Old school meaty chains are the best deterrent.

It's good to prevent kids from climbing the bike and burning/harming themselves.
It's also a deterrent. All things being equal, thieves go for the bike without an alarm.

But I agree that a chain is a lot more effective - garage being the best thing.
However, as an addition to a good chain, alarm is not too bad IMO - if you don't have a garage especially.
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: darrsi on 14 June 2017, 06:25:04 am
If someone really wants to nick your bike, they will, especially the pro's.
Alarms cause nothing but electrical issues.
Old school meaty chains are the best deterrent.

It's good to prevent kids from climbing the bike and burning/harming themselves.
It's also a deterrent. All things being equal, thieves go for the bike without an alarm.

But I agree that a chain is a lot more effective - garage being the best thing.
However, as an addition to a good chain, alarm is not too bad IMO - if you don't have a garage especially.


An alarm doesn't prevent kids from doing anything?


Twice now i've seen youngsters on scooters, no doubt nicked, hurtling down the pavement, and in traffic, with no crash helmets on at all.
First time was 2 scooters  doing 30-40mph on the pavement with one and two kids on them, wearing bandana's over their faces.
And near my work the other day another one, about 16yrs old, brazen as anything, just riding on the road, again with no hint of a crash helmet, with a stinking attitude face on him.
They simply don't give a shit, and have now found out that the police have been told not to touch them if they have no crash helmet on, so they're abusing the fact, and going out robbing people in the streets using these bikes.
I personally would have taken a much different approach which would undoubtedly not end too well on their part, but unfortunately that's not my decision to make.  :2guns
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: Slaninar on 14 June 2017, 08:24:23 am
An alarm doesn't prevent kids from doing anything?


My experience differs. After a kid got burnt on my exhaust, I started activating alarm when parked in front of the house. So I can hear it, come out, check with parents it's OK and make sure they're safe when sitting, or take them for a ride in the street.
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: Gnasher on 14 June 2017, 08:43:28 am
If someone really wants to nick your bike, they will, especially the pro's.
Alarms cause nothing but electrical issues.
Old school meaty chains are the best deterrent.


 :agree


As with car alarms no one takes any notice, there's been many staged the thefts over the years, one I remember in MCN was right outside a main police station in London.  Large new sports bike parked out side, alarm fitted, white van 4 blokes pick up the bike load it into the van, alarm going, shut doors drove off, in less than 30 odd seconds.  No one battered an eyelid :eek


Yes alarms can be helpful but only to alert you, others will do nothing.  In fact I'm sure there was one of these staged thefts where someone did ask what they were doing, the actors had a alarm fob pretending to turn it off, the answer they gave was it's always going off!
   
If scum bag wants your bike they will get it unless you lock it to something or somehow that will make their life really hard, they'll go elsewhere.  I quality chain/lock will cost about £200 cheaper then most top range alarms, it's a no brainier, quality chain/lock and cheap alarm.   
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: Slaninar on 14 June 2017, 09:00:35 am
As for locks and locking, It's definitely a safer option. Garage being the safest, of course.
An alarm as an additional complication to thieves doesn't harm. I wrote two articles on bicycle locks and locking techniques, and think the basics go for motorcycles as well - just go with even heavier chains - 12+mm thick:

http://www.bike.bikegremlin.com/2015/09/23/bicycle-locks/ (http://www.bike.bikegremlin.com/2015/09/23/bicycle-locks/)

http://www.bike.bikegremlin.com/2015/09/30/locking-a-bicycle/ (http://www.bike.bikegremlin.com/2015/09/30/locking-a-bicycle/)

(WARNING: both links are in Tarzan English)
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: darrsi on 14 June 2017, 11:42:25 am
An alarm doesn't prevent kids from doing anything?


My experience differs. After a kid got burnt on my exhaust, I started activating alarm when parked in front of the house. So I can hear it, come out, check with parents it's OK and make sure they're safe when sitting, or take them for a ride in the street.

Out of curiosity, how does an alarm stop a kid burning themselves?

Years ago my girlfriend at the time had this really inquisitive kid who would always come up and point at the exhaust saying "What's that?"
Obviously my reply was "That's called an exhaust, and is VERY HOT so NEVER touch it."

You can see where this is going......she touched the can after I had just gone indoors.
Never did it again though.......but can't see how an alarm would've helped anyway?
Title: Re: Start delay
Post by: Slaninar on 14 June 2017, 01:19:51 pm

Out of curiosity, how does an alarm stop a kid burning themselves?

When they start fiddling with it, it makes sounds, so they back off. Before they climb onto it. Local kids usually start with bars, levers.