old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: Dudeofrude on 11 April 2017, 10:47:50 pm
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Are the branded ones any different? I've always used hiflo on my previous bikes but the fz has a genuine yamaha one on it.
I've had a look and they are double the price of the hi flo, I can't think of a reason why one could be considered more 'premium' than another?
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Not that you would notice.
All i will say is that i've tried the K&N one's before with the added nut for "ease of removal" then found that the nut has a plastic coating over it than didn't fit any socket i tried on it.
I recently bought a heavier duty chain wrench which is about 5 links wide so i'll never have that issue again no matter what i put on it now.
Think i went back to a Hi-Flo oil filter if i remember correctly last time.
As long as the oil is changed within the correct intervals then you won't have any issues. And i've started changing the filter every oil change now, rather than every 2 changes, but that's my personal preference. I also change the oil every 4000 miles rather than the advised 6000 miles but because i don't do a lot of miles that suits me just fine.
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I have used HiFlo for years on various bikes, no problems with them.
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Are the branded ones any different?
Only in price as you've already noticed! For day to day riding, you'll never know the difference.
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Thanks guys that was I thought.
I tend to change the oil at the end of the winter and end of the summer just purely out of habit and peace of mind knowing it's keeping things clean. I do a lot of very short trips especially during the winter so for the sake of a few quid it keeps the engine im better condition.
I usually do the filter every oil change just because I get it free with the oil. £30 for 4 litres of silkolene and a hiflo filter, can't go wrong with that 😊😊
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[quote author=darrsi I recently bought a heavier duty chain wrench which is about 5 links wide so i'll never have that issue again no matter what i put on it now.
I have never required anything other than my hand to remove oil filters the ones I have fitted at least.
There's no need to wound an oil filter on like your life depends on it.
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[quote author=darrsi I recently bought a heavier duty chain wrench which is about 5 links wide so i'll never have that issue again no matter what i put on it now.
I have never required anything other than my hand to remove oil filters the ones I have fitted at least.
There's no need to wound an oil filter on like your life depends on it.
It's for removing it, not putting it on.
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[quote author=darrsi I recently bought a heavier duty chain wrench which is about 5 links wide so i'll never have that issue again no matter what i put on it now.
I have never required anything other than my hand to remove oil filters the ones I have fitted at least.
There's no need to wound an oil filter on like your life depends on it.
It's for removing it, not putting it on.
Really?
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[quote author=darrsi I recently bought a heavier duty chain wrench which is about 5 links wide so i'll never have that issue again no matter what i put on it now.
I have never required anything other than my hand to remove oil filters the ones I have fitted at least.
There's no need to wound an oil filter on like your life depends on it.
It's for removing it, not putting it on.
Really?
No, I'm just making it all up. :rolleyes
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You missed my point little man. There's no need to put an oil filter on so tight you require tools to remove it next time round.
All the filters I have ever fitted come off again the same way they went on which is with my right hand.
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I recently did an oil and filter change on my MT09 using a genuine Yamaha filter and Motul 10/50 semi synthetic (4ltr) container
I did the oil change early at 4500 miles, fecked if I am doing that again. It can run the Yamaha service advice distance now.
Oil + Filter + sump washer. €73.60. I asked the shop were they taking the piss. French do not understand taking the piss, what do you mean Monsieur?? I did point out I was doing this job myself so take off the labour charge , feck it forget.
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You missed my point little man. There's no need to put an oil filter on so tight you require tools to remove it next time round.
All the filters I have ever fitted come off again the same way they went on which is with my right hand.
Good for you, i'll sleep better tonight knowing that.
Maybe you just have a particularly strong right hand, i can't imagine why.......
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You missed my point little man. There's no need to put an oil filter on so tight you require tools to remove it next time round.
All the filters I have ever fitted come off again the same way they went on which is with my right hand.
Nevef been able to undo any oil filter on any vehicle without some sort of wrench, thats what they are for. Next time I change it on my FZ1s you can come round and show me how you get your hand inbetwen the downpipes and grip the filter.
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You missed my point little man. There's no need to put an oil filter on so tight you require tools to remove it next time round.
All the filters I have ever fitted come off again the same way they went on which is with my right hand.
Have to say you're very lucky I've always needed a wench of some sort, the expansion and contraction of different metals and thickness's alone would mean it would get tighter, or fall off.
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Do none of you just stick a screwdriver through it and twist? That's how I've always done it?
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Yup, that's how I used to do it.
Then I bought a very low milage 3 year old car that had never had a service.
Stuck a screwdriver through the oil filter and it started to open up like a sardine can.
A lot of mucking about, and a day later I had the filter off. That was the last time I ever stuck a screwdriver though an oil filter.
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I recently did an oil and filter change on my MT09 using a genuine Yamaha filter and Motul 10/50 semi synthetic (4ltr) container
I did the oil change early at 4500 miles, fecked if I am doing that again. It can run the Yamaha service advice distance now.
Oil + Filter + sump washer. €73.60. I asked the shop were they taking the piss. French do not understand taking the piss, what do you mean Monsieur?? I did point out I was doing this job myself so take off the labour charge , feck it forget.
Are you sure it was a washer and not a gold ring you bought. :eek
Even in our over priced little country it would only have cost €55 for that lot.
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Yeah I know nothing is cheap in France apart from wine, bread & cheese.
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I only ever put it on by hand (with crap access ) but can never get it off by hand. Isnt that why the tools are called oil filter removal tools
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I only ever put it on by hand (with crap access ) but can never get it off by hand. Isnt that why the tools are called oil filter removal tools
You maybe onto something there............... :lol
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Sounds very like a hand job to me 😃
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Yeah I know nothing is cheap in France apart from wine, bread & cheese.
With a Gallic shrug some would say that is all you need in life.
Mickey
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Are the branded ones any different? I've always used hiflo on my previous bikes but the fz has a genuine yamaha one on it.
I've had a look and they are double the price of the hi flo, I can't think of a reason why one could be considered more 'premium' than another?
Hiflo are TUV approved and will perform to the same standard as OE, but they're of a lesser quality i.e. the paint is thinner and the steel is lower grade, therefore they rust much quicker, they can also be pigs to get off at times. I don't know where or how much you've been quoted for a OE filter but they're £9.50 inc vat, Hiflo vary widely from £6 to £11, personally I go OE with Silkolene Comp 4.
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I've just changed my oil and filter again and used a K&N. I don't know why i keep bothering. As said before, the little nut on the front is a waste of space and should be a 16mm or something but because of paint is slightly bigger but less than a 17. I'll hunt through my old Dad's Whitworth sockets for a size.
Mickey
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I've stopped using the K&N oil filters now. I've heard of a few cases where they fail and leak. The bit with the nut attached fails and they leak everywhere. Happened to a mate on his Speed Triple whilst zooming round the alps! Was super lucky to both not lose it on the trail of leaking oil or seize up his engine... Some reckon they fail if you try to tighten them with the nut (which you should do anyway), but my mate certainly didn't do that. Dunno, could have just been a bad batch going round. Either way, I wouldn't want to take the risk.
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I've stopped using the K&N oil filters now. I've heard of a few cases where they fail and leak. The bit with the nut attached fails and they leak everywhere. Happened to a mate on his Speed Triple whilst zooming round the alps! Was super lucky to both not lose it on the trail of leaking oil or seize up his engine... Some reckon they fail if you try to tighten them with the nut (which you should do anyway), but my mate certainly didn't do that. Dunno, could have just been a bad batch going round. Either way, I wouldn't want to take the risk.
My last one i had of the K&N version leaked exactly as you described, and i only put it on hand tight without attempting to use the daft sizeless nut.
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Hiflo are TUV approved and will perform to the same standard as OE, but they're of a lesser quality i.e. the paint is thinner and the steel is lower grade, therefore they rust much quicker, they can also be pigs to get off at times.
HIflo, according to their web site have been making OEM filters since 1963. I've been using em for quite a few years now, it seems to be to be the same quality as the Yamaha marked product.
Should be torqued to 17NM. Use one of these to fit then remove;
http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_1000_fazer/04-05/picture/oil_filter_wrench/ (http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_1000_fazer/04-05/picture/oil_filter_wrench/)
personally I go OE with Silkolene Comp 4.
Hiflo and super4 for me. Comp 4 is fully synth, OTT I'd say for road use, and if you must make sure you have some miles on the bike before you start filling it with fully synth as can polish bores which leads to a bike that burns oil.
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Hiflo are TUV approved and will perform to the same standard as OE, but they're of a lesser quality i.e. the paint is thinner and the steel is lower grade, therefore they rust much quicker, they can also be pigs to get off at times.
HIflo, according to their web site have been making OEM filters since 1963. I've been using em for quite a few years now, it seems to be to be the same quality as the Yamaha marked product.
Should be torqued to 17NM. Use one of these to fit then remove;
[url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_1000_fazer/04-05/picture/oil_filter_wrench/[/url] ([url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_1000_fazer/04-05/picture/oil_filter_wrench/[/url])
personally I go OE with Silkolene Comp 4.
Hiflo and super4 for me. Comp 4 is fully synth, OTT I'd say for road use, and if you must make sure you have some miles on the bike before you start filling it with fully synth as can polish bores which leads to a bike that burns oil.
What utter bollocks :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin Yamaha supply bikes with fully synth in them from new matey
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So, are we saying that new Yamaha's come fitted with forged pistons which don't need mating to the cylinder ???
I'd have thought a new engine would at least need semi synth to aid the running in with the mineral oil properties.................or am I stuck in a time warp :look
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What utter bollocks ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) Yamaha supply bikes with fully synth in them from new matey
Nope. Anyway why would they do that when the oil is ditched at 600 miles? Doh!
This is the Fazer forum, so this discussion is probably irrelevant considering the age of our bikes. But it is a long standing known issue that bikes run in gently and then filled with fully synth after the 600 mile service can end up with polished bores. Polished bores mean a bike that burns oil as the piston rings have failed to bed in.
Talking of "utter bollocks", oil filters, your thin paint, low grade steel and pain to remove claims on hiflo filters? Based on?
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I've stopped using the K&N oil filters now. I've heard of a few cases where they fail and leak. The bit with the nut attached fails and they leak everywhere. Happened to a mate on his Speed Triple whilst zooming round the alps! Was super lucky to both not lose it on the trail of leaking oil or seize up his engine... Some reckon they fail if you try to tighten them with the nut (which you should do anyway), but my mate certainly didn't do that. Dunno, could have just been a bad batch going round. Either way, I wouldn't want to take the risk.
My last one i had of the K&N version leaked exactly as you described, and i only put it on hand tight without attempting to use the daft sizeless nut.
That's bad news and not what you'd expect from such a well known and rated supplier. I've been using yamaha filters but i'm going to give hi-flo a try.
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So, are we saying that new Yamaha's come fitted with forged pistons which don't need mating to the cylinder ???
I'd have thought a new engine would at least need semi synth to aid the running in with the mineral oil properties.................or am I stuck in a time warp :look
Modern say mid 80's on engines are machined to far higher tolerances, also the use of improved and advanced materials and coatings (86 GSXR1100's had teflon coated bores) and semi synth and fully synth oils have all helped increase power, reduce wight, massively increase reliability, reduce wear. Running an "engine in" is pretty much a waste of time since late 90's, running in by definition is fine machining, which wasn't possible with older materials, machining. First services are really to check for ancillaries, brakes, hoses, fastenings etc, changing the oil is a formality in fact you now have to pay for it, years back it was free as it had to be done, now it's another way of making money out of you! Up until say 20 years ago car engines lagged behind bikes, but not any more they're right up there often ahead why, same as above plus emissions and just look at the service. intervals 20k. Bikes for years were exempt from emission testing at the point of manufacture (they still are at MOT but not for much longer) but not anymore since about 03 which is why the crab Fazer had to go.
Things have been moving on for some years!!
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'' the crab Fazer had to go''
Sideways?
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Running an "engine in" is pretty much a waste of time since late 90's, running in by definition is fine machining, which wasn't possible with older materials, machining.
Expect that pretty much all the bike manufacturers recommend it, and not just for 600 miles. And no running in is not fine machining.
Bollocks indeed.
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A pal of mine owned a Kawasaki dealership until retiring around 2005. They used a specific grade of oil for the first 600 miles, or whatever the mileage was for the first service. I remember they used Rock Oil and the drums in the workshop were clearly marked to avoid any confusion.
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What utter bollocks Yamaha supply bikes with fully synth in them from new matey [/quote]Nope. Anyway why would they do that when the oil is ditched at 600 miles? Doh!
Because you now pay for a first service and the oil and have been doing so for some time now it used to be free I wonder why..................... Doh
This is the Fazer forum, so this discussion is probably irrelevant considering the age of our bikes. But it is a long standing known issue that bikes run in gently and then filled with fully synth after the 600 mile service can end up with polished bores. Polished bores mean a bike that burns oil as the piston rings have failed to bed in.
Crap utter crap old school and old habits Modern say mid 80's on engines are machined to far higher tolerances, also the use of improved and advanced materials and coatings (86 GSXR1100's had teflon coated bores) and semi synth and fully synth oils have all helped increase power, reduce wight, massively increase reliability, reduce wear. Running an "engine in" is pretty much a waste of time since late 90's, running in by definition is fine machining, which wasn't possible with older materials, machining. Running an engine at low fixed revs will not help they need varying revs. Pistons rings don't need to bed in haven't for years, out of date practices not required with newer materials.
Talking of "utter bollocks", oil filters, your thin paint, low grade steel and pain to remove claims on hiflo filters? Based on?
I've supplied/fitted 100's of Hiflo filters over the years they don't last outwardly as long as OE, they are cheaper because they are not the same quality of materials. They still filter to the same standard that's why they've got TUV./font]
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Running an "engine in" is pretty much a waste of time since late 90's, running in by definition is fine machining, which wasn't possible with older materials, machining.
Expect that pretty much all the bike manufacturers recommend it, and not just for 600 miles. And no running in is not fine machining.
Bollocks indeed.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin you clearly have absolutely no idea what your talking about, you've not changed at all matey last time it was Poppies :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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A pal of mine owned a Kawasaki dealership until retiring around 2005. They used a specific grade of oil for the first 600 miles, or whatever the mileage was for the first service. I remember they used Rock Oil and the drums in the workshop were clearly marked to avoid any confusion.
It's not that they don't change the oil it's that they don't really need to, hence why they now charge for it. Changing the oil isn't going to do any harm nor is not changing it, if owners what to that's their choice. Using Rock oil or any other is just what the manufacturer is in partnership with at the time, Yamaha used to be Mobile, now it's Yam lube, Kawasaki I think is now Fuchs.
If you go to Silkolene's web site search oil by bike FSZ600 will come up as suitable for "all" their that is 10/40w I wonder why!!!!!
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What happened to this thread, I thought it was about oil filters :rolleyes
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What happened to this thread, I thought it was about oil filters :rolleyes
Its still is... vaguely. But as with any internet based conversation there's a good dose of arguing and drama thrown in for good measure.... on that note I'm nearly out if popcorn...... as you were 😉😅
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What happened to this thread, I thought it was about oil filters :rolleyes
A certain person as usual wanted to argue and throw it off track :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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A certain person as usual wanted to argue and throw it off track :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
It’s no me that started making bold unsubstantiated claims. Nor is it I that claims to know beter than the boffins that design our bikes. Nor is it I that after making such silly claims started calling others names because they didn’t agree.
But as with any internet based conversation there's a good dose of arguing and drama thrown in for good measure.... on that note I'm nearly out if popcorn...... as you were 😉😅
Indeed, and it’s the same topics that come up again and again, with people making the same wild unsubstantiated claims. Anyway;
Two things happen when you run an engine in;
Conformability – is the initial wear as components wear to fit each other better.
Surface finishing – the surface alterations that occur at microscopic levels when two surfaces pass over each other.
Plain bearings however are fine, no real conforming or finishing takes place. The key changes that take place concern the pistons and bores.
One thing that happens on running a bike in is that you alter the piston and bore surfaces. You want the initial jagged machined surface to form in plateaus and valleys. The plateaus bear load and the valleys hold oil. You want the right balance of plateau to valley to form in your bores.
An engine is generally considered run in after 500 miles, but the process is not considered fully complete ie full surface stabilisation, for around 5000 miles.
Fully synthetic oils can interfere with the surface stabilisation process, and even lead to the formation of lacquer and high temperature varnish on low mileage machines. That means you will end up with a bike that’s a little down on full power and will burn a certain amount of oil.
If you look at http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/motorcycle-and-scooters/engine-oils/power1-brand/power1.html (http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/motorcycle-and-scooters/engine-oils/power1-brand/power1.html)
Notice that Castrol Power One GPS;
Promotes longer engine life by minimising the formulation of lacquer, sludge, carbon deposits and high temperature varnish, ensuring outstanding engine cleanliness under the most severe service conditions.
They don’t make the same claim for fully synth Power 1 racing.
Note also they state their semi-synth is suitable for those engaged in motorsports.
Basically these oils have slightly different properties. The semi-synth should be used for at least the first 10,000 miles on a road bike, and frankly is probably the better performing oil for everyday non-racing use.
To sum up – run your bike in as per manufactures recommendation but don’t be too gentle. Make sure you use semi synth for the first 10,000 miles.
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Hiflo are TUV approved and will perform to the same standard as OE, but they're of a lesser quality i.e. the paint is thinner and the steel is lower grade, therefore they rust much quicker, they can also be pigs to get off at times.
HIflo, according to their web site have been making OEM filters since 1963. I've been using em for quite a few years now, it seems to be to be the same quality as the Yamaha marked product.
Should be torqued to 17NM. Use one of these to fit then remove;
[url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_1000_fazer/04-05/picture/oil_filter_wrench/[/url] ([url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_1000_fazer/04-05/picture/oil_filter_wrench/[/url])
personally I go OE with Silkolene Comp 4.
Hiflo and super4 for me. Comp 4 is fully synth, OTT I'd say for road use, and if you must make sure you have some miles on the bike before you start filling it with fully synth as can polish bores which leads to a bike that burns oil.
The only tool you need for fitting an oil filter
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I was wondering about the suggestion of 17Nm for an oil filter being rather excessive, bearing in mind exhaust header nuts for example are only 12Nm and suffer from vibration?
No need at all to go that tight, in fact i didn't even consider that there was a torque setting, i always thought common sense would suffice, and if it dripped it needed nipping up a bit.
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Dunno.
I can't get 17NM oot o ma hand on a filter - not on my Fazer anyway.
The other thing I find is, my hands are oily and the filter is often oily so it's difficult to get fully hand tight at all.
Also once with my car I thought it had started to burn oil, nope, I didn't get the filter on tight enougth by hand - doh! :eek
I just don't want oil dripping from the bike filter cos I figure I know where it might just end up.
So there's an offical figure, I've got a set of good quality torque wrenches lying there, so I just torque it on.
Never had a problem getting them back off (apart from one on a car I bought but it wisnae me that put it on)
17NM is only 12 lbs-ft in English. It's not a lot anyway.
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''It's not that they don't change the oil it's that they don't really need to''
Are you suggesting that the engine as it comes out of the factory contains no contaminants whatsoever? That the engine is assembled in perfectly sterile conditions, and that machining causes no residual material at all? We're not just talking about the bores here. The oil circulates around all parts of the engine, gearbox etc.
Of course it needs to be drained and replaced.
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Dunno.
I can't get 17NM oot o ma hand on a filter - not on my Fazer anyway.
The other thing I find is, my hands are oily and the filter is often oily so it's difficult to get fully hand tight at all.
Also once with my car I thought it had started to burn oil, nope, I didn't get the filter on tight enougth by hand - doh! :eek
I just don't want oil dripping from the bike filter cos I figure I know where it might just end up.
So there's an offical figure, I've got a set of good quality torque wrenches lying there, so I just torque it on.
Never had a problem getting them back off (apart from one on a car I bought but it wisnae me that put it on)
17NM is only 12 lbs-ft in English. It's not a lot anyway.
Which is why I agree with Lew on fitting filters. Use one of these to remove filters for years
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''It's not that they don't change the oil it's that they don't really need to''
Are you suggesting that the engine as it comes out of the factory contains no contaminants whatsoever? That the engine is assembled in perfectly sterile conditions, and that machining causes no residual material at all? We're not just talking about the bores here. The oil circulates around all parts of the engine, gearbox etc.
Mate it's an engine made in a factory "sterile conditions" behave yourself :rolleyes Look engines and their manufacture has improved leaps and bounds in recent years, they are all cleaned and assembled in clean conditions, because of material now used and machining techniques components are manufactured to very fine tolerances, which in turn means almost no running in i.e. partials of metal being worn away thus transferring to the oil.
This is why oil had I repeat HAD to be changed as these partials would damaged the engine if left, you don't get this any longer yes there are some but it's extremely little. If you buy a new car you don't take it back at 600 miles to get the oil changed...do you why...............yep because it don't need changing as I said earlier 20k service intervals, car and bike engines/gear boxes etc aren't to dissimilar these days. The main difference and why car service intervals are so much longer than bikes is most bikes use the shame oil to lub the gearbox, which exerts shearing action, this breaks down oil faster hence greatly reduce service intervals. The bike industry is much smaller and of course they're not going to give away a money spinner of now CHARGING you for the 600 mile service.......................... :rolleyes
[/size] [/size]
Of course it needs to be drained and replaced.
[/size]Yes of course it needs changing just not at 600 miles............................... :rolleyes :rolleyes if you the owner wants to change your oil every 2k (I know some do) fill you'r boots all you're doing is throwing money down the drain and making increased sales for oil company's and not help the environment. [size=78%]
Right that my last word on this one, have a nice day.
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But they make hardly any money on the oil - £10? Most of the dealer's profit is on servicing. Which is usually free for the first service.....
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Which is usually free for the first service.....
No mate you now have to pay for a first service or so I'm told
This is really my last
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Not on the last 3 bikes I've bought new.....
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Sorry fella but no date on invoice = null and void :pokefun
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It was for a new Tiger 800XRX in June 2015, but now it's my turn not to be bothered any more.....
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Gnasher is right on that point. (poor sod has to br right about something ;) )
I was looking at an MT10 a few weeks back. And yup they now charge labour for the first service, and that appears to be what most Yamaha dealers are doing.
Dunno why, seems a bit of a cheek. Must be Yamaha UK policy now.
Might have to do with the rising cost of bikes as a result of the BREXIT vote. Importers desperate to try and keep the list price down a tad. Talking of which, if we continue down the BREXIT path, it's odds on that prices will rise further.
The bike industry is much smaller and of course they're not going to give away a money spinner of now CHARGING you for the 600 mile service.......................... ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])
I tend to disagree. There must be a good reason why it seems all the manufacteurers insist on a 600 mile service.
. It's a competitive market place, dumping the 600 mile service would save cost andmake your product a little cheaper and more attractive to the consumer. But none of em are showing any sign of doing so.
So I doubt it’s grabbing cash. Anyway, a better way for the importer to generate cash for their dealers is what Suzuki have done and offer a 3 year warranty via its dealer network. Makes their bikes more attractive brings the purchaser back to the dealer to spend some more cash, and most punters will be more than happy to do so.
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Perhaps another reason to buy a new Triumph? It's the manufacturer that decides service costs, not the dealer.
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I bought an oil filter recently from my local yamaha dealer, (6months ago) unfortunately it didn't come with a free bike or a 600 mile service :\
If you buy a new bike then you're fair game for the dealers marketing machine- You're so foccin special as the song goes. Would you buy a bike that missed out on the 600 mile service?
Marketing or essential maintenence? the decision is yours.
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The dealers are independent businesses independent of the importer which is an independent business independent of the manufacturer.
Manufacturers set the service schedule. The importer provides the warranty and sets the dealer expectation. The dealer sets the price for service, though the first service may have a fixed or max price set by the importer.
Would you buy a bike that missed out on the 600 mile service?
A bike that has missed it’s 600 mile service is no longer under warranty.
So what about oil filters? :lol
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I have never had to pay for a first service , why because when I am buying the bike and the dealer says the first service is £xx, I tell him staright you are not the only dealer in town so shall we start again? my trade value is £xxxx anthe first service is-£xxx so we are agreed on that, if not I am out the door.
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''Manufacturers set the service schedule. The importer provides the warranty and sets the dealer expectation. The dealer sets the price for service, though the first service may have a fixed or max price set by the importer.''
Well I'm afraid you are wrong, in respect of Triumph authorised dealers anyway. The dealers may be independent, but Triumph set fixed prices for all scheduled servicing.