old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: darrsi on 11 February 2017, 12:24:43 pm
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Been looking around the internet and not found much, but was wondering if there's a breather vent or hole that can be cleaned or poked on the fuel tank cap at all?
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Been looking around the internet and not found much, but was wondering if there's a breather vent or hole that can be cleaned or poked on the fuel tank cap at all?
Is the tank not vented from underneath, when I cut the bottom of the tank out I seem to remember two brass/copper tubes connected from the bottom to the pressing that the fuel cap bolts to, I guess one is the overflow and the other the vent.
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The hole under the fuel cap on mine got clogged a couple of months ago, cleaned it out with a long bit of single core wire and blew down it using a drinking straw. Not sure if that is what you mean though.
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I know there's a hole that goes from the top of the tank to the bottom vent underneath, but was wondering if there was anything in the cap at all that could need a clean.
To be honest it doesn't really matter now, i just found a shiny brand new one for £20 so thought i'd tart the bike up a bit as the old one looks so grubby.
It'll mean another key but i'm not really bothered about that. :)
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I know there's a hole that goes from the top of the tank to the bottom vent underneath, but was wondering if there was anything in the cap at all that could need a clean.
To be honest it doesn't really matter now, i just found a shiny brand new one for £20 so thought i'd tart the bike up a bit as the old one looks so grubby.
It'll mean another key but i'm not really bothered about that. :)
Now i do like shiny - but what is so bad about the old one, wont it clean up
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I know there's a hole that goes from the top of the tank to the bottom vent underneath, but was wondering if there was anything in the cap at all that could need a clean.
To be honest it doesn't really matter now, i just found a shiny brand new one for £20 so thought i'd tart the bike up a bit as the old one looks so grubby.
It'll mean another key but i'm not really bothered about that. :)
Now i do like shiny - but what is so bad about the old one, wont it clean up
Just looks old and a bit battered, and £19.99 delivered is not exactly breaking the bank.
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I know there's a hole that goes from the top of the tank to the bottom vent underneath, but was wondering if there was anything in the cap at all that could need a clean.
To be honest it doesn't really matter now, i just found a shiny brand new one for £20 so thought i'd tart the bike up a bit as the old one looks so grubby.
It'll mean another key but i'm not really bothered about that. :)
Now i do like shiny - but what is so bad about the old one, wont it clean up
Just looks old and a bit battered, and £19.99 delivered is not exactly breaking the bank.
This is what I would do
Drop allen key on tank - and chip tank.
Drop old filler on tank - bigger chip.
Drop new filler on floor - and bust it
Put old filler cap back on.
Spend 1 hour looking for the last bolt that the garage fairies have hidden.
Think - well that was a good 3 hours and 19.99 spent.
On top of that its now raining and I could of spent that 3 hours out on the bike
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This is what I would do
Drop allen key on tank - and chip tank.
Drop old filler on tank - bigger chip.
Drop new filler on floor - and bust it
Put old filler cap back on.
Spend 1 hour looking for the last bolt that the garage fairies have hidden.
Think - well that was a good 3 hours and 19.99 spent.
On top of that its now raining and I could of spent that 3 hours out on the bike
:lol :lol :lol
I've had days like that too.
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I know there's a hole that goes from the top of the tank to the bottom vent underneath, but was wondering if there was anything in the cap at all that could need a clean.
To be honest it doesn't really matter now, i just found a shiny brand new one for £20 so thought i'd tart the bike up a bit as the old one looks so grubby.
It'll mean another key but i'm not really bothered about that. :)
Now i do like shiny - but what is so bad about the old one, wont it clean up
Just looks old and a bit battered, and £19.99 delivered is not exactly breaking the bank.
This is what I would do
Drop allen key on tank - and chip tank.
Drop old filler on tank - bigger chip.
Drop new filler on floor - and bust it
Put old filler cap back on.
Spend 1 hour looking for the last bolt that the garage fairies have hidden.
Think - well that was a good 3 hours and 19.99 spent.
On top of that its now raining and I could of spent that 3 hours out on the bike
Got a tank cover on there now, so just the cap that's exposed.
I must say it feels much nicer now, the padding gives a better grip and i noticed a big difference in warmth as well not having the legs touching bare metal.
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The hole under the fuel cap on mine got clogged a couple of months ago, cleaned it out with a long bit of single core wire and blew down it using a drinking straw. Not sure if that is what you mean though.
I just tried using compressed air to blow down the air vent hole in the actual fuel tank and it didn't sound like anything was going through, but in fairness i couldn't see what size the hole is because of the rubber housing which surrounds it?
Which also makes me wonder how that hole can get clogged in the first place when it looks fairly protected?
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I suppose the obvious question is what makes you think it's blocked?
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Canny Pee.
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I suppose the obvious question is what makes you think it's blocked?
Still getting the occasional starting issues, just a process of elimination.
Used a can of air at first, then popped by work to pick up a parcel then used a proper airline.
Read that extreme weather can cause issues if the tank isn't vented properly, as in very hot or very cold.
Got a new cap on the way but as i can't determine what the vent hole looks like due to the rubber part surrounding it, it was a bit of an unknown if it's right or not.
Blew air through the tiny cap hole underneath and i could feel air coming out of the cap mechanism so that's probably okay.
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As a lay-man, I would think a blocked breather would cause the tank to gain a negative pressure so that when you open the filler cap a loud hiss of air rushing in would be apparent. Is that the case?
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As a lay-man, I would think a blocked breather would cause the tank to gain a negative pressure so that when you open the filler cap a loud hiss of air rushing in would be apparent. Is that the case?
I think if it was totally blocked it would do that, but if it was that bad it would also run like shite or even cut out.
Once it's started, eventually, it appears to run okay though. I'm mainly only doing 6 mile runs to and from work so it may not even be far enough to build up a big vacuum.
To be honest, i'm just trying everything, one thing at a time, until i figure it out.
I might try blowing air up from the bottom of the tank which will be easier to feel if it's blocked or not. I can't see why it should be though as it all looks like a sealed unit once the cap is locked down.
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As a lay-man, I would think a blocked breather would cause the tank to gain a negative pressure so that when you open the filler cap a loud hiss of air rushing in would be apparent. Is that the case?
I think if it was totally blocked it would do that, but if it was that bad it would also run like shite or even cut out.
Once it's started, eventually, it appears to run okay though. I'm mainly only doing 6 mile runs to and from work so it may not even be far enough to build up a big vacuum.
To be honest, i'm just trying everything, one thing at a time, until i figure it out.
I might try blowing air up from the bottom of the tank which will be easier to feel if it's blocked or not. I can't see why it should be though as it all looks like a sealed unit once the cap is locked down.
Have you tried taking it out for a dam good thrashing
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As a lay-man, I would think a blocked breather would cause the tank to gain a negative pressure so that when you open the filler cap a loud hiss of air rushing in would be apparent. Is that the case?
I think if it was totally blocked it would do that, but if it was that bad it would also run like shite or even cut out.
Once it's started, eventually, it appears to run okay though. I'm mainly only doing 6 mile runs to and from work so it may not even be far enough to build up a big vacuum.
To be honest, i'm just trying everything, one thing at a time, until i figure it out.
I might try blowing air up from the bottom of the tank which will be easier to feel if it's blocked or not. I can't see why it should be though as it all looks like a sealed unit once the cap is locked down.
Have you tried taking it out for a dam good thrashing
Not sure what purpose that would serve, it's a starting issue, not a running one.
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The K&N air filter was cleaned not so long ago, and if you speak to my work receptionist she'll definitely confirm it's getting petrol by the way it has backfired in the past letting out a flame like a jet planes afterburner and a noise like an elephant gun.
The battery is good, that consistently supplies power when it's trying to start, without any signs of pegging out, it's just that the engine doesn't want to catch.
Quite a few times it's started for about a second or two, then just cut out, then it takes about another 2 minutes of trying to start it, with and without the choke before it will eventually catch and run as if there was never a problem.
But thinking back it's always misbehaved in hot summer or in cold winter evenings after work, which is what led me down the blocked air vent path.
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As a lay-man, I would think a blocked breather would cause the tank to gain a negative pressure so that when you open the filler cap a loud hiss of air rushing in would be apparent. Is that the case?
I think if it was totally blocked it would do that, but if it was that bad it would also run like shite or even cut out.
Once it's started, eventually, it appears to run okay though. I'm mainly only doing 6 mile runs to and from work so it may not even be far enough to build up a big vacuum.
To be honest, i'm just trying everything, one thing at a time, until i figure it out.
I might try blowing air up from the bottom of the tank which will be easier to feel if it's blocked or not. I can't see why it should be though as it all looks like a sealed unit once the cap is locked down.
Have you tried taking it out for a dam good thrashing
Not sure what purpose that would serve, it's a starting issue, not a running one.
Your bike is bored with the 6 mile commute, its fed up, I promise you, give it a blast and the next time you come to start it will going before your thumb has even touched the button.
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Next time it happens take a plug out and check if it's sparking and what condition it's in if it's wet etc
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Next time it happens take a plug out and check if it's sparking and what condition it's in if it's wet etc
Can't see why it wouldn't be, as said once started it runs fine.
I chopped the ends of the HT leads and rescrewed the caps on firmly, got new Iridium plugs, and i've covered them in WD40 as well to avoid damp issues.
Don't forget, this isn't a recent issue, it's been happening since summer so i've done all the main checks and replaced a few parts along the way.
The air vent theory was only thought of when i was searching the web a few days ago, but i've got this week off work so not been doing the commute.
I was out on the bike yesterday but i'd already opened the fuel cap to blow air down the hole, plus the weather was warmer, and the bike started up fine straight away.
The main time it plays up is after it's been sitting outside work all day as i'm going home. It's played up a few times in the morning but not as bad, although it is garaged at night so that may be why.
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Don't know if you have tried this but next time you start it up at work open the fuel cap first, then start it up. If it starts up ok then I would check that all the hoses are clear of debris and gunk and not kinked and replace them. I realise that you have said before that you have checked them but if it is mayonaise type gunk it is hard to clean it out properly and replacement hose is cheap.
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Don't know if you have tried this but next time you start it up at work open the fuel cap first, then start it up. If it starts up ok then I would check that all the hoses are clear of debris and gunk and not kinked and replace them. I realise that you have said before that you have checked them but if it is mayonaise type gunk it is hard to clean it out properly and replacement hose is cheap.
Think my new fuel cap is possibly due today, so if that turns up i'll sort that out for starters.
And i'm gonna use a pipe from my CarbTune kit with a can of compressed air and fix it to the metal vent nipples underneath the tank and blow air upwards and see if it comes out okay at the top.
On my bike the tank vent/overflow nipples are lowered into a rubber cup to avoid kinking issues, so the hoses that run downwards from that cup should in no way be kinked as i've never needed to displace them but i'll most certainly check if they're gunked up with anything. On earlier models they do have pipes coming off the tank which i know were prone to accidentally being kinked, if not routed correctly or pulled downwards when the tank is lowered.
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So the vent and overflow pipes were all good. I pushed some air through them from the 2 metal pipes at the bottom of the tank and air flowed freely, plus the rubber hoses that run down from the rubber cup under the tank were all clear as well so no excuses there.
New cap arrived as well so that's now fitted.
On the old original cap it had a plate with a pin hole that lowered specifically on to the orange rubber housing. The rubber housing covers the breather pipe that goes straight through the tank from top to bottom, and protects it from any fuel going down it.
The replacement cap doesn't have that plate, so if anything it will now have access to even more air.
If there was any lack of venting then it will be inside the cap mechanism itself, so now i've got a shiny new one i can rule this out if it ever plays up starting again.
Won't really know now until it's sat outside work all day again, which won't be 'til next week when i go back, so i'll be back if it ever doesn't start. :thumbup
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For anyone who doesn't know, the lower hole is the cap breather that goes straight through and gets covered by the orange rubber cap.
And the hole to the left is the drainage hole for excess fuel, or any water that may leak through.
The rubber gasket was in very good nick so i just cleaned it up and swapped it over.
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For your starting problem, have you ruled out the fuel pump? Are you waiting for long enough after turning the ignition on, for the pump to fill the carbs before hitting the starter?
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For your starting problem, have you ruled out the fuel pump? Are you waiting for long enough after turning the ignition on, for the pump to fill the carbs before hitting the starter?
Normally takes a weekend off the bike for that to start rattling away, otherwise there's already fuel in the carbs after just 9 hours.
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I was gonna wait until the end of the week and report that since my shiny new fuel cap has been fitted the bike has started on the button morning and evening without any issues, and been running absolutely fine.
Well it was until this evening.
I'll make it simple, the bike was put on the centre stand for a change behind a wall at work due to the high wind and ropey weather.
On centre stand, all lights and accessories off, i start the bike with the choke.
I adjust the choke until it's maybe a third of the way and happily revving away but not anything mad, then leave it alone to put my balaclava and lid on.
After 30 seconds of happily purring away, the engine just stops dead, as if i hit the kill switch. It didn't die out slowly as if starved of fuel, just off.
Then, it won't start, after about 3 attempts.
I switch off, finish doing my lid up and putting gloves off, take it off the centre stand and then it starts straight away as if nothing is wrong and i'm off home with no problems at all.
Question is, what can stop an engine dead after 30 seconds of revving on the choke at around 2500rpm?
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I just don't think your bike likes you.
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... Question is, what can stop an engine dead after 30 seconds of revving on the choke at around 2500rpm?
Sudden temporary loss of sparks would be my guess.
It also allows a build-up of unburnt vapour in the exhaust system which is ideal for elephant gun effects when the sparks resume normal service.
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... Question is, what can stop an engine dead after 30 seconds of revving on the choke at around 2500rpm?
Sudden temporary loss of sparks would be my guess.
It also allows a build-up of unburnt vapour in the exhaust system which is ideal for elephant gun effects when the sparks resume normal service.
It's not air, and it's not petrol, so it is pointing towards electrical now.
So what am i looking at now to cause these intermittent loss off sparks?
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There are many, many possible causes.
It could be a failing component somewhere or it could be an intermittent open circuit or (less likely) intermittent short circuit in the wiring. You might be able to narrow down the search if there are any other unexplained faults, such as flickering lights or intermittent glitches on the instrument panel for example.
Sadly vehicle wiring problems are a pain in the arse… and they're a hundred times worse if they only show up when they feel like it (i.e. when you're late for work or at midnight on your way home).
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Would it not be worth getting an auto electrician to take a look? Might cost you an hours labour but he would either find the problem or at the least check off a load of things that its not?
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I just don't think your bike likes you.
I buy it shiny new things, i take it out, i even buy it booze, where am i going wrong? :lol
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I just don't think your bike likes you.
I buy it shiny new things, i take it out, i even buy it booze, where am i going wrong? :lol
You have to tell it you love it, cuddle it and never ever even glance at a newer shinier bike, especially if it has a bigger engine.
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I just don't think your bike likes you.
I buy it shiny new things, i take it out, i even buy it booze, where am i going wrong?
You have to tell it you love it, cuddle it and never ever even glance at a newer shinier bike, especially if it has a bigger engine.
Looks like the lyrics from a Seasick Steve song :guitar :lol
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Its not you - its her, she wants more out of life, a little excitement once in a while, yes you take her out but its always to the same place, she feels stifled and and feels that she has so much more to offer than what you can give her she longs for the open road and sweeping bends and although deep down she still loves you she is bored with the daily commute. Which is why she is always reluctant to start.
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Its not you - its her, she wants more out of life, a little excitement once in a while, yes you take her out but its always to the same place, she feels stifled and and feels that she has so much more to offer than what you can give her she longs for the open road and sweeping bends and although deep down she still loves you she is bored with the daily commute. Which is why she is always reluctant to start.
You've met my ex then :lol
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There are many, many possible causes.
It could be a failing component somewhere or it could be an intermittent open circuit or (less likely) intermittent short circuit in the wiring. You might be able to narrow down the search if there are any other unexplained faults, such as flickering lights or intermittent glitches on the instrument panel for example.
Sadly vehicle wiring problems are a pain in the arse… and they're a hundred times worse if they only show up when they feel like it (i.e. when you're late for work or at midnight on your way home).
Started fine again this morning, i'll see if it behaves tonight in a minute.
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Worn ignition maybe .
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Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh :wall
Okay, now i have that out the way.
Bike on side stand, sitting slightly uphill outside my work.
Start the bike....cuts out after one second. Repeat this about 5 times.
Put all my gear on, sit on upright bike, start with choke, and it runs for about 20 seconds then just totally cuts out?
Decide to shake the bike from side to side (rather than jump up and down on it) then it starts straight away, and i'm off home again with no problems whatsoever!
What the foc is going on? :'(
The fact it's been sitting outside all day, and then it starts after sloshing the fuel about now brings me back to thinking about moisture/condensation sitting in the carbs again.
It could explain why it ran okay all the way home, whereas if it was electrical would it not play up again at some stage during my journey?
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Check the wiring and connectors of the sidestand cutout and make sure the switch isn't covered in cack. If it's the plunger type switch on your bike make sure the plunger is moving freely and not getting stuck, contact cleaner can be used to free these up.
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Worn ignition maybe .
The bike does eventually start though, and so far in the last few days has run between 20 and 30 seconds before the engine just stops dead.
Horrible thing is, this is gonna turn out to be something really stupid, and probably easy to fix......as soon as i know what the foc is wrong with it?
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Check the wiring and connectors of the sidestand cutout and make sure the switch isn't covered in cack. If it's the plunger type switch on your bike make sure the plunger is moving freely and not getting stuck, contact cleaner can be used to free these up.
Sidestand switch has been bypassed, that was when all this trouble started last summer and it was the prime suspect at the time.
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Mmmmmmm.....ESETEST ...could be onto something there...is the key loose/sloppy in the ignition ?
Agree with you that it will probably be something simple....might be worth by-passing the ignition just to rule this one out....wont cost you anything trying ;)
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Mmmmmmm.....ESETEST ...could be onto something there...is the key loose/sloppy in the ignition ?
Agree with you that it will probably be something simple....might be worth by-passing the ignition just to rule this one out....wont cost you anything trying ;)
Key feels okay to me.
How would i bypass it?
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Mmmmmmm.....ESETEST ...could be onto something there...is the key loose/sloppy in the ignition ?
Agree with you that it will probably be something simple....might be worth by-passing the ignition just to rule this one out....wont cost you anything trying
Key feels okay to me.
How would i bypass it?
With the main fuse out, get to the connector bundle under the tank, disconnect the two plugs from the ignition and make up three links to mimic what the switch does in the "on" position (it's fairly clear which ones to link using the diagram in the manual).
Plug the main fuse back in and your bike is on and ready to start.
As you say though, it's odd that the bike doesn't show up any glitches once it's running properly… if it was a dodgy connection it would be vibration sensitive and you'd expect it it cut out occasionally when hitting bumps.
On the other hand, it doesn't sound much like water contamination either, particularly as you should have dissolved any present with your isopropanol dosing regime.
I wonder if it's flooding? Shaking the bike from side to side might have unjammed a stuck float perhaps?
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Mmmmmmm.....ESETEST ...could be onto something there...is the key loose/sloppy in the ignition ?
Agree with you that it will probably be something simple....might be worth by-passing the ignition just to rule this one out....wont cost you anything trying
Key feels okay to me.
How would i bypass it?
With the main fuse out, get to the connector bundle under the tank, disconnect the two plugs from the ignition and make up three links to mimic what the switch does in the "on" position (it's fairly clear which ones to link using the diagram in the manual).
Plug the main fuse back in and your bike is on and ready to start.
As you say though, it's odd that the bike doesn't show up any glitches once it's running properly… if it was a dodgy connection it would be vibration sensitive and you'd expect it it cut out occasionally when hitting bumps.
On the other hand, it doesn't sound much like water contamination either, particularly as you should have dissolved any present with your isopropanol dosing regime.
I wonder if it's flooding? Shaking the bike from side to side might have unjammed a stuck float perhaps?
The thing i find weird is that i have a reasonably trouble free start in the mornings, when the bike is garaged at night, but once left outside work for 9hrs that's when i have the main issues.
I'm trying to give as much detail as possible in case it means anything.
Like on Thursday the bike was on the centre stand, then started once pushed off it, then yesterday it was on the sidestand but only stayed running after "shaking" the bike from side to side.
I know it'll start eventually with perseverance, but for one it's embarrassing, and secondly, it just ain't right.
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A couple of my mates just popped round my house and i tried starting the bike in front of them and it played up from the off for about 5 minutes until i shook the bike a few times then it started and eventually ran okay.
So on that evidence and procedure we all agreed that i either need to drain the carbs and tank, in case i've picked up some dodgy fuel from somewhere that may have water in it, or just take the bike for a good blast and see if i can burn it off whilst having a little bit of fun at the same time.
I have another week off work to play with although i keep hearing reports of upcoming dreadful weather so i'll have to pick my moment, but i have to get this sorted 'cos it's driving me bonkers.
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With you shaking the bike and then it starting ok I wonder if there is crap in the tank that is settling round the outlet for the petrol tap under the tank. When the bike is stood the crap sinks to the lowest point and restricts the fuel flow.
Or possibly I am talking crap, it has been known :)
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With you shaking the bike and then it starting ok I wonder if there is crap in the tank that is settling round the outlet for the petrol tap under the tank. When the bike is stood the crap sinks to the lowest point and restricts the fuel flow.
Or possibly I am talking crap, it has been known :)
Could be crap, but the way the engine starts then stops dead i have a gut feeling i've picked up water from somewhere.
The bike was in the garage overnight, so not wet at all and the temperature is mild so i can't blame weather conditions this time.
The difference today though was i started the bike in the garage, whereas i would normally wheel it out then put it back on the sidestand.
This movement may be more than enough to slosh the fuel about making it start easier in the mornings, but at work i start it where it's parked.
All still guesswork obviously but i think i'm on the right track.
Once i'd shaken the bike and got it started, i switched off and it was starting no problem at all afterwards.
I can't see why shaking the bike would fix an electrical fault.
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just take the bike for a good blast and see if i can burn it off whilst having a little bit of fun at the same time.
I refer you to the post I made earlier
« Reply #16 on: 14 February 2017, 1
Have you tried taking it out for a dam good thrashing
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just take the bike for a good blast and see if i can burn it off whilst having a little bit of fun at the same time.
I refer you to the post I made earlier
« Reply #16 on: 14 February 2017, 1
Have you tried taking it out for a dam good thrashing
Yeah i know.
Just sods law that i have a week off and all i hear is reports of shite weather, plus i've got torn ligaments in my thumb so it's bloody painful to ride for too long.
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Thumb hurts far less if you go out for a mate's 50th, and hit all types of alcoholic weirdness for 7hrs.
I don't for one second condone this type of behaviour, it's just silly, but at least i can type this message in a reasonable manner.....eventually.
For the record, torn thumb ligaments hurts like fook, and seriously doesn't feel like it's improving at all......after 4 weeks :'(