old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: darrenc on 21 January 2017, 02:52:15 pm
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Hey foccers, need a little advice, started the bike and its running lumpy as shit (sounds like its only running on 3 cylinders) once warmed up it runs OK and sounds OK. However only 3 of the four header pipes seem to be getting hot. The one on the right in the picture doesn't get anywhere near as hot. Would a new set of plugs sort this?
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How old and how many miles on the plugs ?
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Bike has only done 13k but previous owner never used it so its been sat a long time, not sure how old the plugs are.
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try swapping two plugs over and if the cold header warms up it will point to a faulty plug.
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Make sure you clear the area around the spark plugs of any debris, leaves, dirt, etc, to avoid anything dropping into the pistons.
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Also make sure the plug cap is on properly ! :)
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Running on three at start/idle can be sign of carbs needing balanced but once moving all 4 should get hot
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When mine ran similar to this it was a blocked pilot jet in one of the carbs that was the culprit.
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Well just been out for a 30 min ride, and same still happening, noticeable a lot more when bike first starts however bike still seemed hesitant throughout the ride. When I got home I quickly felt the headers and the first was although warm was nowhere near as hit as the rest. I'm gonna have to bite the bullet I think and get it to the garage for new plugs and a carb balance as the last bloke I bought it off had clearly left the poor thing sat there for months on end without rising it.
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Good luck with removing all 4 plugs without one snapping off in the head.
When I bought my FZS it had also been sat for years unused the plugs had never been changed long story short one of them snapped despite blasting them with plusgas everyday a week prior to extraction (suggest you do the same whether you take it to a garage or DIY). Head had to come off to remove the remnants of the snapped plug. That was fun.
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When mine ran similar to this it was a blocked pilot jet in one of the carbs that was the culprit.
:agree
Agreed. On a bike that's been standing ages there's a good chance the carbs are in need of a clean.
If cylinder 1 isn't firing just balancing the carbs won't help.
Firstly though, you could try trimming 8mm off the plug lead and screwing that back into the plug cap... the lead end breaking up causes at least 50% of rough-running faults on the Fazer.
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All these possible solutins :( I have read a lot of other posts on here as well suggesting it might be a blocked jet. In higher revs, I.e above 5000rpm it seems a lot less noticeable. When the bike is cold and at lower revs its like a tractor. The first header pipe gets warm but not unbearably hot to touch so does that indicate a knackered plug or could it be a carb issues for that cylinder? I don't want to get ripped off at the garage either. And here's me thinking I was in for some trouble free biking, had nothing but issued with the foccer and haven't even started using it for commuting yet
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Might be worth triple dosing this in a tank and riding it hard - works for me
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/stp-complete-fuel-system-cleaner-petrol-400ml (http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/stp-complete-fuel-system-cleaner-petrol-400ml)
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In higher revs, I.e above 5000rpm it seems a lot less noticeable. When the bike is cold and at lower revs its like a tractor. The first header pipe gets warm but not unbearably hot to touch
Yep that's just how my Fazer was running.
Once I got past approx. 5000rpm it pulled like a train as per usual, but was lumpy and hesitant again below that figure and also on start-up.
Down pipe number 3 was noticeably cooler after a ride and that was where the problem lay, with carb number 3.
The garage did an ultrasonic clean of the carbs and it felt like a new bike afterwards :)
Apparently the issue was caused by degraded/stale fuel mucking the carb/s up.
I did try a fuel system cleaner additive prior to the carb removal but it made no difference, although I used a Motul product and not the STP one which Frosties, darrsi and others on here have reported good results with.
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OK the STP is on offer at halfords, I have a full tank of fuel, should I stick the full bottle in?
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OK the STP is on offer at halfords, I have a full tank of fuel, should I stick the full bottle in?
Yep :thumbup
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arcing from plug caps will also cause those symptoms
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STP Complete Fuel System Cleaner is 50% off in store at Halfords.
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Despite their online catalog saying there was one in stock there was Nome left so settled for this (see attached pic) stuck full lot and and blasted the foccer down the motorway (within legal limits of course officer) after one hour of tootling about its made no difference, jumped of the bike and touched the dirty foccers pipe number 1 and still not red hot likenits 3 sisters next to her. I'm really hoping just a fucked plug or dirty corresponding carb is the issue, I can live with that. Also whilst the urbano tucano muffs kept my hands toasty as fuck I just can't get on with them so if anyone wants a pair they can have them for £25, they cost me £45 Inc postage just 2 days ago.
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Too late now but i've only ever recommended the STP Complete System Cleaner before because it's tried and tested by a few of us on here and does do a good job.
Which is why it's more expensive than the others.
Just something to point out as well, if you're considering a carb balance you will need:
Good plugs, and as mentioned cut 5-10mm off the end of the HT leads then screw the caps back into fresh wire.
Good fuel, i don't know where the bike's been sitting but you need to make sure there's no moisture in the tank.
A clean air filter, if you're not sure then change it anyway, but don't buy the cheapest one you can find on Ebay, 'cos it'll probably be crap. I would always recommend a K&N which are a bit more expensive but it'll be the last one you need to buy for the bike, and the feel of the bike will improve.
Do a quick TPS check and make sure that's all correct and in the right position.
And as i think you're finding out, you may have a blockage in your carbs so ideally they will need cleaning too.
If any of these things are not quite right then it can give a false reading on a carb balance as i have found out myself before.
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OP If you've recently bought the bike a full service wouldn't be a bad idea.
Soak the plugs though with some penetrating fluid at least a few days prior to extraction and if one feels particularly tight there's only one way it's coming out and that's in two halves. ;)
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OK so I'm working through shit within my technical capabilities so in the realms of this going to the garage soon I thought I will at least take a look at the TPS, being as I haven't had much luck so far I was full expecting a 3000 reading, much to my relief I got a 10000, pheeeeeew. So I have at least managed to sort that focking problem myself. As per usual pics attached :) albeit shit ones but they shiw the 10000 and 5000 readings just about
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Change the plugs first or do as said previously switch two plugs around to see if a different downpipe remains cooler.
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Were you sitting on a spinning washing machine when you took those photos? :lol
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The TPS check wont show 3K. Where did you get that number from?
It's either 0, 5 or 10K.
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The TPS check wont show 3K. Where did you get that number from?
It's either 0, 5 or 10K.
Think he meant he was "expecting" a 3K reading, as in faulty, because of his luck so far.
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I read somewhere if it read 3k it was a TPS fault?? not sure where, i hear 0 and 10k meant it needed adjusting and 5k was ok. As for the photos they are shocking, not sure what was going on there hahah.
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... As for the photos they are shocking, not sure what was going on there hahah.
Not enough light. Nobody can hand-hold a camera steady for a 6 second exposure.
Anyway, back to the bike... why not try the easy things first?
Adjusting the TPS is a good thing to do once you've sorted the problem out but it was never going to be the cause of it.
1. Trim the HT leads.
2. If that doesn't work try swapping the plug caps (JUST the caps) between plugs 1 and 4, if the fault moves to Cylinder 4 then get some straight NGK replacements.
3. Try a new plug
4. Get the carbs off and clean them.
5. Reset the idle and adjust the TPS.
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before step 4 above, try balancing the carbs. May just be badly adjusted.
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I don't own a carb tune unfortunately, and I don't want to start cutting stuff (ht leads etc) in case I make a complete hash of it. I'm going to take it to a local garage tomorrow who I have used multiple times before so trust them. What I will do is say it may simply be a dud plug or lead cap, if it isn't either of those its likely to be something carb related such as blocked jet etc. If it is carb related I might ask them to clean the carbs out and balance for me at same time :) I need this focking bike running sweet as a but for two weeks time as it will then become my only means of transport for my daily commute in my new job. If the garage can't sort it then I may need to call upon my experienced foccers to wither come to my aid in West Yorkshire or I can ride to someone as long as it isn't too far away and compensate via means of beer, pub lunch out and beer or good old cash and I will hopefully learn a thing or two in the process as well ;)
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Ok bike booked in, garage phoned, new set of plugs going in and the carb is being ultrasonically cleaned (do they get sonic the hedgehog round for that) anyway it should be ready for me to pick up tomorrow and im hoping it will run as sweet as a nut :) thanks for everyones help in the forum and im sure you will be hearing from me again with other bike and none bike related troubles. You are all such a helpful bunch of Foccers :) i might even manage to get out on a ride out with a few of you in the future, i live in Gods own County so am never too far from a good ride ;)
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Ok bike booked in, garage phoned, new set of plugs going in and the carb is being ultrasonically cleaned (do they get sonic the hedgehog round for that) anyway it should be ready for me to pick up tomorrow and im hoping it will run as sweet as a nut :) thanks for everyones help in the forum and im sure you will be hearing from me again with other bike and none bike related troubles. You are all such a helpful bunch of Foccers :) i might even manage to get out on a ride out with a few of you in the future, i live in Gods own County so am never too far from a good ride ;)
Hope you manage to get it all sorted.
Just out of interest How much is it roughly for the Ultrasonic carb cleaning?
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Will let you know tomorrow, hopefully they wont have my pants down :lol
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Hopefully it's just the plugs then.(http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif)
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It's both, plugs and cars gunked up, guess thats because the previous owner had it sat for month and months on end with very little to no petrol in the tank and now i have the bike and have been out on it its sucked said crap through and generally made the bike a little poorly, all in all a new set of plugs and the carbs cleaned and balanced will be a peace of mind for me as i will be relying on this as my commuter for my new job in two weeks time
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Just out of interest How much is it roughly for the Ultrasonic carb cleaning?
When I had my carbs ultrasonically cleaned, along with a new set of spark plugs it came to a total of £187:58
That was 3 hours labour + £26:32 for the plugs + 2 'sundries' at £2 each (whatever they were?! :lol) & £31:26 VAT.
It felt like riding a brand new bike home that day, so I was well chuffed with the result.
Hope you have a similar outcome darrenc.
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Garage called, £120 all in, new plugs, carbs ultrasonically cleaned and balanced, can't wait to pick it up
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Garage called, £120 all in, new plugs, carbs ultrasonically cleaned and balanced, can't wait to pick it up
Hope it's sorted the problem.
What garage did you take it to? as I'm thinking of getting mine done and most of the garages near me are quoting around the £200+ mark and I don't really want to shell out that kind of dosh.
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Here's the address 30 W Parade, Halifax HX1 2TE
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They are called Grizzlies motorcycles
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Here's the address 30 W Parade, Halifax HX1 2TE
They are called Grizzlies motorcycles
:thumbup
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Here's the address 30 W Parade, Halifax HX1 2TE
They are called Grizzlies motorcycles
:thumbup
Dam it! a tad too far away from my location. Would be a nice ride though :D
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Garage called, £120 all in, new plugs, carbs ultrasonically cleaned and balanced, can't wait to pick it up
That's a great price.
How's it running now?.
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Firing on all four cylinders now, I just need to get used to a screaming 600 again, I keep expecting it to pull me away in any gear like my bandit 1250 did just to be kangarood around a bit haha, engine sounds normal again and it pulls good, all in all I'm happy, the throttle response still isn't as crisp as I would like though, when I compare it back to when I had a hornet 600 the throttle was very responsive and crisp on that. Should o check the tps again now the carbs have been cleaned and balanced and I have new plugs in?
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may as well check it it dont take long and easy to adjust mine is very crisp off the throttle and pulls like a train
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OK so checked tps today, started at 5000 then went up to 10000. So I turned ignition off and back on and unplugged and plugged in the tps again and now it says 10000 no matter how much I adjust I can't get it to 5000. Any suggestions? Not only that but bike seems to be running like shit again. I'm getting truly fucked of with it now to be honest.
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Have you seen this vid, you only need to follow the TPS setup. Hope it helps.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOlqyjbdKnQ#)
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,91.msg224808.html#msg224808 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,91.msg224808.html#msg224808)
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Yep tried all that. Do I need to maybe go for a long ride then try again? Or maybe disconnect battery for a while and then connect and try again?
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Just added a link to the bottom of my previous post which is in text, scroll up to Andrews post follow 2-6, did the bike run o.k before you touched the TPS,taking the bike for a run won't make any difference,check also your idle speed is around 1250rpm.
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My idle speed is probably just under 1000 guessing I need to adjust that then as well before I check the tps again.
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Been for a run out, bikes OK, tps still showing 10000 and won't budge so it can suck a bag of dicks as the bike seems to run ok.
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After Reading this thread I noticed that No:3 cylinder was not firing (hence my enquirey about carb cleaning prices) well after some investigation for cheaper fixes I found this product 'Wynn's Air intake & Carburettor Cleaner'. I gave it a good blast in the intake of the carbs and shazzam as if like magic I'm firing on all 4 again.
If anyone is interested I got it from Euro Car Parts for about £3 something for a 500ml can otherwise it's in Halfords for about £7, you probably can get it cheaper somewhere online.
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You just take the air filter out start up bike and blast it straight through airbox?
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You just take the air filter out start up bike and blast it straight through airbox?
Correct, give it a good blast just on tickover then give it a blast with the revvs at about 2k to 3k then just on tickover again, turn it off and let it settle for about 30mins to an hour then fire the bitch up again. Thats what I did and it seemed to work :D
Just go careful that you don't get it on any paintwork as it will eat through it like acid
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arcing from plug caps will also cause those symptoms
:thumbup Spent spark before it reaches the plug electrodes
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Were you sitting on a spinning washing machine when you took those photos? :lol
You not tried it Darrsi? you really should, make your eyes water.