old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: keno on 08 January 2017, 06:53:00 pm
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Last few months i have been having a on and off starting problem,sometimes turns over ok then all of a sudden i just get a click coming from the battery area,if i put in gear and slightly bump in gear it will start when i hit the button.Not sure if it is starter motor,battery or some electrical issue, anyone had this or similar.
Battery charges ok and sits at 12.6 on the optimate but its over 10 years old?
Clicking sounds like it is coming from fusebox area down by battery.
Oh and its a 98 fazer 600
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It may show good volts, but it can be lies!
Check the output of the battery when you try to start it.
At 10 years old I would suspect your battery has had its day. 10 years is a good innings though.
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12.6 is too low, and 10 years old is too high.
I think you've had your moneys worth out of it, time for a new one now i reckon.
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:agree
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Thanks for replys will give it a start and check output when i get in from work,think you are all right about it due to age.
Any one tried the motobat batterys the yellow ones or is there any other good batterys been a while since i bought one :rolleyes
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I bought another one recently, which I chose for the slightly higher ampage.
Have a look around for the best price.
VARTA YT12B-BS 12v-12Ah
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I've not been impressed with Motobat, I'd go for a Yuasa.
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Yuasa or Varta not Motorbatt they are less powerful.
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If it makes the clicking noise but then starts successfully using the button after a slight in gear bump the battery is probably ok but I'd check the starter motor brushes as they could be stuck or worn beyond their limit.
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I had something similar with my foxeye a few years back , every now and then all it would do is click , bump it it would be ok then a few months later same thing .
Changed battery , same problem then took out starter motor and checked but in the end it was the starter solenoid.
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im with jules on this recon the starter motor it the culprit if it was the battery the it wouldnt matter if you rocked it back and fourth it still wouldnt turn over if the battery was flat
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I was thinking both the starter solenoid and brushes as it is weird it will start after just a minor bump from just pushing while sat on it and it will either start or just click,where is the starter solenoid, its not down by the fuse box by any chance?
Will still do a battery output check on my meter tomorrow as i finish work early,bike is nearly nineteen years old and in the 11 i have had it this is the first problem i have had, so not bad going as it is used every day all year.
Any way it is either battery,starter or solenoid,but which one :book
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No matter what the problem is, treat your bike to a new battery, i think it deserves it.
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No matter what the problem is, treat your bike to a new battery, i think it deserves it.
Yes probably will,also need a new set of downpipes as the originals have finally started blowing in all the wrong places,but the bike is used constantly,amazed they have lasted this long :eek
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Battery output on my meter was showing 10.65 on first attempt and 9.35 second prod of starter
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you need to check it when its running not when pressing the starter with the engine running you should see about 14 volts
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Load test should not be less than 9.5v on a charged battery & with engine running output at terminals should be between 13.8v & 14.5v.
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Yep done the test and it is 14.46 so looks like battery is still ok after over 10 years,looks like starter motor or solenoid think will start with solenoid.
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Did you do the load test as well.
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bike was running when i connected the meter
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The charging system is fine, you said the load on the battery was seen at 9.35volts this indicates a new one is required.
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How long is a motorcycle battery good for?
While “How Long Does A Motorcycle Battery Last?” has no exact answer, as a general rule if you take care of your motorcycle battery through the proper maintenance and ensure that it is always getting a good charge, there is no reason why you cannot expect your motorcycle battery to last between two to five years.
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If the battery is never allowed to go flat it can last well over 10 years. I replaced mine after 10 years after I fitted heated grips because they would switch off with the engine idling at traffic lights. The new battery made no difference.
But AGM batteries do not like going flat and being asked to deliver high currents when partially discharged. Just one occasion of carrying on trying to start an engine until the battery won't turn the engine over or the solenoid clicks can ruin a battery and it won't hold a charge properly again.
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If the battery is never allowed to go flat it can last well over 10 years. I replaced mine after 10 years after I fitted heated grips because they would switch off with the engine idling at traffic lights. The new battery made no difference.
But AGM batteries do not like going flat and being asked to deliver high currents when partially discharged. Just one occasion of carrying on trying to start an engine until the battery won't turn the engine over or the solenoid clicks can ruin a battery and it won't hold a charge properly again.
Just common sense says it would appreciate a new one after 10 years though, i don't even understand why anyone is even questioning it?
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when the snow clears and i have time i will take the battery out of my zrx 1200 and try that and if it starts every time problem solved :)
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Just a note, but when I changed my battery a few months back I found that the bike ran generally better as well.
I think just having a weak or tired battery can affect certain parts of the electrical system when running.
I'd like to be more specific, but all I know is I certainly noticed a difference.
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Just a note, but when I changed my battery a few months back I found that the bike ran generally better as well.
I think just having a weak or tired battery can affect certain parts of the electrical system when running.
I'd like to be more specific, but all I know is I certainly noticed a difference.
You're right. I've noticed that with my van. I don't use it much so the battery slowly discharges. So far it always starts, although struggles occasionally. But straight after giving it a full charge I notice the difference when driving. It is much more eager. I guess the spark plugs are getting a full charge and thus igniting all the fuel. Dunno, definitely runs better though.
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If the battery is never allowed to go flat it can last well over 10 years. I replaced mine after 10 years after I fitted heated grips because they would switch off with the engine idling at traffic lights. The new battery made no difference.
But AGM batteries do not like going flat and being asked to deliver high currents when partially discharged. Just one occasion of carrying on trying to start an engine until the battery won't turn the engine over or the solenoid clicks can ruin a battery and it won't hold a charge properly again.
Just common sense says it would appreciate a new one after 10 years though, i don't even understand why anyone is even questioning it?
EEK -- so far - touch wood. I am on the original 17 year old battery :eek but when I am not riding it I keet on a yam branded C-Tek charger here http://www.yamahaclothing.co.uk/yec-40-battery-charger-3227-p.asp. (http://www.yamahaclothing.co.uk/yec-40-battery-charger-3227-p.asp.)
I brought it a few years ago after I also had a starting issue and almost flattened the battery, my issue was the spark plugs, I had them out and they looked fine but brought some new ones anyway and hey-presto fired straight up.
May be my battery has lasted so long because I only for fun when its dry and so am not starting it up twice a day every day.
If you add up how many times my battery has started the bike compared to a bike used every day then the battery is about 4 years old
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If the battery is never allowed to go flat it can last well over 10 years. I replaced mine after 10 years after I fitted heated grips because they would switch off with the engine idling at traffic lights. The new battery made no difference.
But AGM batteries do not like going flat and being asked to deliver high currents when partially discharged. Just one occasion of carrying on trying to start an engine until the battery won't turn the engine over or the solenoid clicks can ruin a battery and it won't hold a charge properly again.
Just common sense says it would appreciate a new one after 10 years though, i don't even understand why anyone is even questioning it?
EEK -- so far - touch wood. I am on the original 17 year old battery :eek but when I am not riding it I keet on a yam branded C-Tek charger here [url]http://www.yamahaclothing.co.uk/yec-40-battery-charger-3227-p.asp.[/url] ([url]http://www.yamahaclothing.co.uk/yec-40-battery-charger-3227-p.asp.[/url])
I brought it a few years ago after I also had a starting issue and almost flattened the battery, my issue was the spark plugs, I had them out and they looked fine but brought some new ones anyway and hey-presto fired straight up.
May be my battery has lasted so long because I only for fun when its dry and so am not starting it up twice a day every day.
If you add up how many times my battery has started the bike compared to a bike used every day then the battery is about 4 years old
Why does that not surprise me at all? :lol
There's loads of things to chuck into the equation with batteries and how long they last.
My bike is used for fairly short journeys most of the time, at least 5 days a week, but then it will sit outside in all weathers, including very hot or very cold weather.
Then there's the headlights, I've done the mod so they're both on, and they stay on all the time when riding.
Also I have heated grips which I use for a large part of the year, and I now have the added spotlights as well.
I do make a point of switching everything off though when starting the bike to avoid any unnecessary strain on the battery even though it would handle it if it's in good nick.
At my work we have batteries that we use for my video equipment, plus cameras as well, so I do get a rough idea about battery life, 'cos they are in constant use being hired out and charged all the time, and they are similar to bike and car batteries.
So I think 17 years (probably more actually) is a pretty good innings I'd say, and I doubt anyone else can really top that I'd imagine! :thumbup
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New battery and solonoid would most likely solve the problem.
Testing with a meter is not a load test. Many batteries will charge fully and look OK with a meter, but will not survive a load test
A load tester will apply a load equal to one-half of the Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) rating of the battery for 15 seconds and this is the recommended method.
Without out a load tester the following method will give a good indication of battery condition.
Check the battery voltage it should be over 12.25 volts
Disable the ignition and operate the starter motor for 15secs, no longer.
Check the voltage again
If less than 9 volts replace the battery
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Well i connected my zrx battery to the fazer and still just got the loud click sound from the solenoid,took solenoid out and cleaned contacts still the same,was going to take out starter motor and strip it down to check brushes but thought i would try cleaning electric cable connected to it first with some wd40,and also the old tap the starter motor with a hammer trick and now starts every time for the last couple of days :) funny things are electrics.Will keep an eye on it for a while for signs of it acting up again but it looks like starter motor will need stripping if it starts again,anyway i found some brushes for only £5.99 so cheap enough to fix if it happens again.
Anyway thanks for all replies and will be back if it happens again.
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... So I think 17 years (probably more actually) is a pretty good innings I'd say, and I doubt anyone else can really top that I'd imagine! :thumbup
Last I heard, Red98 was still on his first battery.
As am I. :)
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Yes , still on the original. Needs replacing now though, had to use my booster charge to get it started last time I used the bike , that was before christmas so time for a new one.....bikes a 98 so its done well :thumbup
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My original was over 11yrs old was beginning to show it's age, changed in Dec 09 for a Yuasa thats now 6yrs old & still going strong so would recommend
red98.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-YUASA-YT12B-BS-MOTORBIKE-QUAD-JETSKI-BATTERY/130494954517?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40802%26meid%3D3334ef489381491cb5049e9490a8a59d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D300683821985 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-YUASA-YT12B-BS-MOTORBIKE-QUAD-JETSKI-BATTERY/130494954517?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40802%26meid%3D3334ef489381491cb5049e9490a8a59d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D300683821985)
or darrsi recommended this one,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Varta-YT12B-BS-Motorbike-Battery-12V-12Ah-215CCA-1-Year-Warranty-/272121673347?hash=item3f5bb73683:g:Bl0AAOSwA3dYSX~Z (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Varta-YT12B-BS-Motorbike-Battery-12V-12Ah-215CCA-1-Year-Warranty-/272121673347?hash=item3f5bb73683:g:Bl0AAOSwA3dYSX~Z)
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Cheers for the link bandit.....both of those good value for money :thumbup ......just use the bike for pleasure so will wait until the weather improves a little before purchasing........
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Go my maths wrong - my battery is 19 years old and not 17
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Dunno about my battery as it was on my old girl when I bought her about 4 years ago.
What make is the original Yamaha battery and I will take a look to see if it possibly the original.
I have a battery conditioner on it all the time when parked that tops the charge right up, and then goes into normal standby mode.
My Yammy is a 2002 model but 2003 registered FZS600 Foxeye. so 14 years old now about the same as my mental age. :lol
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Original batteries were Yuasa
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My bike is actually suffering the same problem. Press the starter switch and on some occasions it just makes a tapping sound (like something knocking on the plastic). The usual process then is knock it in gear rock it back and forward with the clutch open, pull the clutch in and retry the starter. Is it likely I need to replace the starter brushes? If so how would I know if they were too worn (if I looked at them).
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When you say you cleaned the contacts, did you open up the solenoid and clean it internally. Common for the internal contacts to have green corrosion which intermittently stops the solenoid doing its job. Next time it happens short the big connections in the solenoid. If that turns the starter, change the solenoid. I don't know of anyone who had to strip a starter on the 600 to replace brushes. Heard of a few who had to because the starter was seized
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When you say you cleaned the contacts, did you open up the solenoid and clean it internally. Common for the internal contacts to have green corrosion which intermittently stops the solenoid doing its job. Next time it happens short the big connections in the solenoid. If that turns the starter, change the solenoid. I don't know of anyone who had to strip a starter on the 600 to replace brushes. Heard of a few who had to because the starter was seized
I took out the electric connector block cleaned all contacts and soaked it in gt85, put back in done the same with the starter motor connection tapped the starter motor with the back of a screw driver and hit button,starts every time now.
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It was the tap on the starter motor that fixed it. Need to get those brushes cleaned or changed because it's going to happen again before too long
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It was the tap on the starter motor that fixed it. Need to get those brushes cleaned or changed because it's going to happen again before too long
Yep got some on order for £5.99
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Just a quick update, after reading through this thread due to similar problems, I have taken my starter apart and intend to replace the brushes (they do look quite worn and have visible curves in the surface). Does anyone know where I can get a brush carrier assembly for less than £60? I've looked at just the brushes but I don't think I'm able (lack of know how / equipment) to replace them on their own.
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The curve on the surface isn't a problem it is in fact a good feature as it spreads the current over a greater area stop local overheating.
The brushes should slide smoothly and freely in their holders. New brushes are 10mm long and the manual gives the minimum length as 4mm. The commutator the brushes are pressed on to should be copper looking but doesn't have to be super shiny but shouldn't have any black areas on in (except for the thin black lines between the bits of copper).
Often dismantling and reassembling the starter motor will free the brushes up and the problem can disappear
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Ahh i see, this is what happens when you don't read up properly (my bad). The starter is completely clean now though so I might put it back in and just see if it works.
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Ahh i see, this is what happens when you don't read up properly (my bad). The starter is completely clean now though so I might put it back in and just see if it works.
Try these only takes 30 mins to strip and change.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221809984064?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221809984064?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)