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General => General => Topic started by: Dudeofrude on 30 December 2016, 09:24:41 am
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So just reading the news and it seems they are introducing theory tests as part of the CBT from 2018?
What do we think of this?
I personally think it's just another money making scam. I dont think The theory test adds anything to driving other than expense, proven by the fact that most seasoned drivers/riders couldn't pass it these days.
I also think this will dramatically reduce the amount of legal youths on mopeds/125s as if they fail it and get told No then theyll just think they may aswell risk riding without it? After all its not as is they have a license to lose?
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I'm kinda 50/50 on this one.
Everything's a rip off these days and everyone wants money for this and money for that. On the flip side, education as preparation for going on the road can't be a bad thing can it? As for failing youths, most that ride without a licence will most likely do so whether or not there is a theory test, it's an unfortunate side to humanity!
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It stinks. I teach kids aged 15/16 and lots do their CBT (often the first saturday after their 16th birthday) and buy a moped so they can go to college or do an apprenticeship. They often ask me about the rules for doing this (not all parents understand how it works, for some it is the first vehicle the household has ever had). This will create more expense and another hurdle towards getting on the road. The CBT includes the highway code, and the kids do seem to know they need to read it before they go to do the CBT. There has been a surge in kids doing CBTs and getting on bikes, as running a car is prohibitive, putting more barriers up won't help them find employment or do the training that might be most suitable for them. The road safety lobbyists are too short sighted.
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I think it will help encorage the repeat CBT riders to take training do a test
I seen the fast food delivery riders often imagrents no knolage of UK road rules OK some don't care but a grounding in the theory before CBT can only help
I wish this site had spell check or didn't block mine !
DW
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Bikes used to be about cheap transport for the masses. Back in the 80's (OK I know it was a long time ago) there used to be a big row of bikes parked outside my school which grew as the year went on as more and more 5th year students turned 16. When I got to college there were even more as many of us used it as transport in from the villages where we lived rather than rely on the unreliable busses and trains.
Suddenly we hit a wall where, for reasons I haven't quite grasped, parents wouldn't let the kids ride bikes. Instead, more were ferried to school by car creating more and more traffic on the roads, making biking more dangerous in the parents eyes.
Around the same time, CBT was introduced making it harder and costlier to actually get on the road. When I was 16, all we did was wait for the clock to strike midnight before we were off riding into the distance. Because so many of our friends and family had bikes, we knew how to control a bike. Because we all rode pushbikes on the road, we all knew the rules of the road. Now, many kids have never ridden a pushbike on the road. Many have not got a friend with a bike to "have a go on down the woods" before they get the keys to the CBT provided bike meaning they wobble all over the place initially.
The other suggestion on the news today was to allow learner drivers on the motorway network and to have a minimum amount of driver training before they can take their test. How will the hours be logged? When I was 17, I never had any instructor based driving or riding lessons. Instead, I drove my own car with my dad or friends who had passed their test sitting beside me in the car. At 18 I knew it all. My dad on the other had thought his driving was superior and mine was a problem. I went away and did my IAM Advanced test then to prove him wrong. He has never complained about my driving in the 30 years since.
If they bring in the minimum 100+ hours they are talking about, that will cost parents £2000+ in driving lessons. Add this to the cost of buying and insuring a car, and bikes may actually make a comeback as the cheaper alternative.
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Theory test does not seem to make car drivers any better so cannot see it helping in any way for bikes, just another hurdle to getting a bike license. People should be encouraged to get a bike license to reduce traffic and parking problems, there is a cycle to work scheme, a motorcycle to work scheme should be in place as well.
As for letting learners on the motorway isn`t that what PassPlus was meant to include?
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:agree
and the hazard perception test is easy to fail if you have ridden/driven for any length of time as you see hazards earlier than the test will allow.
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Shows what i know, i already thought it was part of it?
I think it's a good thing, it encourages people to learn road signs and the do's and don't's of the road, how can that possibly be a bad thing?
I would imagine that due to the influx of outsiders coming into the country they have been thought about as well to learn everything about our roads and signs, which are no doubt different in every country.
And as suggested, if you're now gonna have to do the theory test and CBT then you may as well just go and take the full test and be done with it.
Gets a thumbs up from me, the more knowledge newer bikers can have can only be totally beneficial to them, and others.
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:agree
and the hazard perception test is easy to fail if you have ridden/driven for any length of time as you see hazards earlier than the test will allow.
Weird you should say that, 'cos i did an online hazard test years ago and the tests idea of a hazard were very different from what i was seeing.
The same as when i sit in the passenger seat of a car, squirming, with my feet firmly planted and one hand on the dashboard, because the driver seems totally oblivious to all the dangers ahead that i'm seeing. Some peoples blissful ignorance to their surroundings when driving simply scares the shit out of me, which as you can imagine makes me instantly sit in the back straight away, firmly seat belted up, whenever possible. :eek
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So many of the replies on here have struck a chord with me!
As youngsters in the distant past we all rode bicycles so by the time we were 16 already had some "road sense"-indeed quite a few of us did the ROSPA Cycling Proficiency Test(still got my certificate but lost the badge years ago).
In those heady days of the 60s with petrol at 30p a gallon & insurance for about £1-50 from the Co-Op man we hit the road(sometimes literally) without any training
& if we were lucky survived to learn what to do & what not to!
Training is only worthwhile if new skills are acquired and put into practice. I doubt like many on here that I could pass the hazard perception test without learning the "method" required.
The route to a full motorcycle licence has been made long,expensive & involved to the extent that many potential future riders are put off altogether,especially if they have never experienced the freedom of two-wheeling-either pedal powered or motor assisted, & wait until they re 17 & go for a car.
As the roads become increasingly congested you would think any right thinking government would do everything possible to encourage use of 2-wheeled transport[size=78%] . [/size]
[/size][size=78%]Car ownership has grown exponentially since the 60s,along with increased air pollution from traffic delays/jams. [/size]
[/size][size=78%]In my opinion the people I know who learnt to ride young turned into far better car/van/lorry drivers.[/size]
[/size][size=78%]I know we live in a risk averse culture but that doesnt stop people overeating/smoking/drinking to excess.[/size]
[/size][size=78%]If they can introduce a scheme which provides training for life on the roads which isnt beyond the pocket of the average citizen-lets go for it. Of course new/learner drivers need motorway tuition-these roads have been with us since the 50s.[/size]
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Of course new/learner drivers need motorway tuition-these roads have been with us since the 50s.
Lets say for example, you live on the Isle of Wight, or in deepest darkest Cornwall, or West Wales, or in the North of Jockland etc etc. Would you want to spend all that time and money to get to a motorway so you can take a lesson?
If you live near the M25, would you want inexperienced drivers mixing it with all the foreign trucks on a dark wet evening when your trying to get home from work?
Motorways have been around a long time but before someone has passed their test is not the time to practise on them. I have nothing against teaching people on motorways (Pass Plus I thin it is called) but this is optional and not mandatory at the moment so maybe they should introduce a two/three/four stage practical car driving test too to make things more even with the bikes?
Phase 1 @ 17 years old, only allowed to drive cars up-to 50bhp and not allowed on dual carriageways or motorways. No audio systems allowed to be turned on in the car. You want more, do phase 2.
Phase 2 @ 21 years old or two years after Phase 1 pass, allowed up to 100bhp and now allowed on dual carriageways and motorways but still no ICE
Phase 3 @ 24 years old or two years after Phase 2 pass, unlimited power cars and ICE allowed
anyone caught driving a car too powerful or with the stereo on when they are not meant to have them will get instant driving bans and forced to retake test etc.
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I've no doubt most of us had push bikes when we were younger, but it was certainly different times back then.
I know that i would not personally want to get on a bike and ride out on the roads of London these days, it's just madness.
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Of course new/learner drivers need motorway tuition-these roads have been with us since the 50s.
Lets say for example, you live on the Isle of Wight, or in deepest darkest Cornwall, or West Wales, or in the North of Jockland etc etc. Would you want to spend all that time and money to get to a motorway so you can take a lesson?
If you live near the M25, would you want inexperienced drivers mixing it with all the foreign trucks on a dark wet evening when your trying to get home from work?
Motorways have been around a long time but before someone has passed their test is not the time to practise on them. I have nothing against teaching people on motorways (Pass Plus I thin it is called) but this is optional and not mandatory at the moment so maybe they should introduce a two/three/four stage practical car driving test too to make things more even with the bikes?
Phase 1 @ 17 years old, only allowed to drive cars up-to 50bhp and not allowed on dual carriageways or motorways. No audio systems allowed to be turned on in the car. You want more, do phase 2.
Phase 2 @ 21 years old or two years after Phase 1 pass, allowed up to 100bhp and now allowed on dual carriageways and motorways but still no ICE
Phase 3 @ 24 years old or two years after Phase 2 pass, unlimited power cars and ICE allowed
anyone caught driving a car too powerful or with the stereo on when they are not meant to have them will get instant driving bans and forced to retake test etc.
The fundimental problem with that theory is the same as the current motorbike test, it's based on age, not experience.
I find it stupid that you can currently pass yourate bike test at 17 then again at 21, have 4 years experience and still not be trusted with anything stronger than 47bhp....... or pass your test on your 24th birthday and go out and buy a 200bhp superbike!!
I agree with the concept I just think it should revert back to the old system where in you are limited by experience rather than age.
15 bhp on a L plates, 30 after a test, 70 after 2 years, unlimited after 3? Or something along them lines
After all who says a 24 year old is anymore capable ( or responsible) than a 17yo who's had the exact same amount of training?
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Just a matter of statistics i think, as you well know you're more likely to do something very daft through stupidity or inexperience as a teenager than you would a bit later on.
Everyone is different obviously but from an insurance point of view the figures probably speak volumes.
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I agree with Darrsi. What's the problem ? Car learners cannot take their driving test and go out unaccompanied until they've passed the theory test and proven that they know the rules of the road. Why should bikers be able to go out unaccompanied without? The Theory test isn't difficult, is £23 and takes what - 30 minutes?
What looks worrying to me is the proviso for car drivers that they will have to have a minimum of tuition before taking their test, and they are talking about 120 hours. As an experienced biker, I passed my car test first time after 10 lessons. Some people will be ready way before 120 hours, and some will never be ready no matter how many ......
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@agree Dude
the point I was making was obviously missed. The point was if the car test was as hard to do and get to "unlimited" status, there would be an outcry but as bikes are a minority transport they get picked on unfailrly. The reason used for picking on bike is related to the accident statistics for KSI's in bike accidents vs. car accidents and the fact that proportionally we are involved in more accidents than car drivers.
Some of this is true. Some is bollocks. Car drivers have a lot more accidents than recorded, its just that they can still drive away so goes unrecorded.
If drivers were made to spend 12 months (or more) on a bike before they were allowed behind the wheel of a car, the number of bike accidents would go down as the myopic ones would suddenly be more aware of their surroundings and look out for bikes.
how about this revised route then?
CBT @ 16 and a moped
Phase 1 @ 17 years old and a minimum of 12 months after CBT date, only allowed to drive cars up-to 50bhp and not allowed on dual carriageways or motorways. No audio systems allowed to be turned on in the car. You want more, do phase 2.
Phase 2. Two years after Phase 1 pass, allowed up to 100bhp and now allowed on dual carriageways and motorways but still no ICE
Phase 3. Four years after Phase 1 pass, unlimited power cars and ICE allowed
anyone caught driving a car too powerful or with the stereo on when they are not meant to have them will get instant driving bans and forced to retake test etc.
and for bikes
CBT @ 16 and a moped
At 17, a 125 on L plates but once test passed (lets call it phase 1 again) up to 50bhp and not allowed on dual carriageways or motorways
Phase 2. Two years after Phase 1 pass, allowed up to 100bhp and now allowed on dual carriageways and motorways.
Phase 3. Four years after Phase 1 pass, unlimited power bikes
If they levelled the playing field (as they used to have) then bikes will be a lot more popular.
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:agree
and the hazard perception test is easy to fail if you have ridden/driven for any length of time as you see hazards earlier than the test will allow.
Weird you should say that, 'cos i did an online hazard test years ago and the tests idea of a hazard were very different from what i was seeing.
This was exactly my experiance a few years ago when my daughter was doing the on line practice ones I was seeing everything as a hazard and clikcing far too eairly than the "game " wanted me to but after a few gos I learnt how to play the game.
There was stuff like a bus in a layby with its indicater on to pull out, well for me that is not a hazard - that is a bus telliing me he is pulling out, however what I would call a hazard is a bus in a layby with no indactors on, cause you know the focer is going to pull out without warning.
Car drivers who wear a baseball cap or a flat cap whilst driving - hazard.
All Green, orange cars - hazard
All BMW, Audi - hazard
A wet leaf - time to go home
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If drivers were made to spend 12 months (or more) on a bike before they were allowed behind the wheel of a car
But we all know that's not going to happen, don't we ?
As for restricting new car drivers to low powered cars, well insurance ensures that already happens (unless you are a young Premier League footballer of course). Causing an accident (to a bike) is usually determined by the blunt impact of the car, irrespective of power.
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I think it will help encorage the repeat CBT riders to take training do a test
I seen the fast food delivery riders often imagrents no knolage of UK road rules OK some don't care but a grounding in the theory before CBT can only help
I wish this site had spell check or didn't block mine !
DW
You don't need a spellchecker Dave you need Knowledge :thumbup and Immigrants :thumbup .
There is nothing worse than Unknolagable imagents riding around on bikes.
Only joking mate :lol my spelling would be the same with out the jolly old checker keeping its beady eye on me.
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If drivers were made to spend 12 months (or more) on a bike before they were allowed behind the wheel of a car
But we all know that's not going to happen, don't we ?
As for restricting new car drivers to low powered cars, well insurance ensures that already happens (unless you are a young Premier League footballer of course). Causing an accident (to a bike) is usually determined by the blunt impact of the car, irrespective of power.
The more powerful one are actually more dangerous as the bast---s can keep up with us :'(
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Also it's worth noting that according to nearly every bit of research that's been done the most dangerous age group on motorbikes is 31-40 year olds. More riders of that age die on the road every year than any other, followed closely by 41-50 year olds.
Similar story with cars but with a higher age group. Over 70s are actually the most dangerous people on the road ( which we all know) probably due to the fact that most of them passed in the 60s and haven't had any kind of testing since.
So really what you can take from this is if you a driver/rider between the ages of 24 to 30 or 51 to 60 then your insurance should be free haha
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The fundamental problem is that we have too many people on this small island- mostly congregated in the south but around all UK city conurbations.
You can hardly get anywhere these days, cities and A roads, motorways in gridlock. The real reasons for all the hurdles to vehicle licences are
to slow down/reduce the number of people on the roads and as someone stated, a massive money earner for Gov UK. Don't get me started on public transport :wall
What we need is some kind of populist revolution . . . wait didn't we just have one!?! :lol And another thing, who's hoarding all the jet packs? The technology has been around for 40 years, why aren't we all on jetpacks?
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I think moped riders are the most dangerous things on the road and the CBT is a bit of a joke.
although I live in central London where experience and having your wits about you counts for everything. In towns and villages and out and about it's probably not such a big deal.
When I took my CBT, 7yrs ago the three other lads taking the course with me were all sent home at midday because they couldn't read a highway code! The instructor refused to take them out because they could not recognise a sign for 'no bicycles', 'no entry' or 'no overtaking'.
I think street signs can tell you so much about what is coming up and I actually welcome this testing.
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvsa-sets-out-proposals-to-improve-motorcycle-training (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvsa-sets-out-proposals-to-improve-motorcycle-training)
Seems there more too it that initially reported. Here's the full story.
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Also it's worth noting that according to nearly every bit of research that's been done the most dangerous age group on motorbikes is 31-40 year olds. More riders of that age die on the road every year than any other, followed closely by 41-50 year olds.
Thats probably because the average age for bikers is quite high anyway, how many young bikers do you see at any bike meet?
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Theory Test only takes 20mins with a REALLY upset stomach.....trust me. :o
And i passed......the test, and in the toilet. :lol
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I think if the theory test was written specifically for bikes it could save lives. Rather than just teach road signs etc, actually make riders understand safe road positioning at junctions etc, OK so not everyone will put it into practice but some will and that has to help prevent accidents.
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I still think everyone should ride a bike for at least a year before even contemplating getting in a car.
The grey area is that in 29 years of bike riding, i've never tried driving a car, yet i could jump into a three wheeler motor and be on my way without question!
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I still think everyone should ride a bike for at least a year before even contemplating getting in a car.
The grey area is that in 29 years of bike riding, i've never tried driving a car, yet i could jump into a three wheeler motor and be on my way without question!
If you ever get the chance to drive a reliant or similar you'll soon understand why they allowed riders to use them without a full car license.
Saying that though I used to be able to drift mine at wet junctions, much to the amusement of pedestrians
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Also it's worth noting that according to nearly every bit of research that's been done the most dangerous age group on motorbikes is 31-40 year olds. More riders of that age die on the road every year than any other, followed closely by 41-50 year olds.
Similar story with cars but with a higher age group. Over 70s are actually the most dangerous people on the road ( which we all know) probably due to the fact that most of them passed in the 60s and haven't had any kind of testing since.
So really what you can take from this is if you a driver/rider between the ages of 24 to 30 or 51 to 60 then your insurance should be free haha
Oooy! I'm only 10 weeks away you cheeky young whippersnapper lol
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I still think everyone should ride a bike for at least a year before even contemplating getting in a car.
The grey area is that in 29 years of bike riding, i've never tried driving a car, yet i could jump into a three wheeler motor and be on my way without question!
If you ever get the chance to drive a reliant or similar you'll soon understand why they allowed riders to use them without a full car license.
Saying that though I used to be able to drift mine at wet junctions, much to the amusement of pedestrians
Same as that I scuffed the drivers side door handle off my old Regal van one night going around a tight left hander had it up on two wheels (Nothing unusual about that) but going much to fast for the bend (I think there was something wrong with the beer that night as it seemed to upset my judgement) and over she went corkscrewed down the road spun 360 degrees a couple of times and came to a stop. I had to get out of it like a tank with a top trapdoor, I stood on the upturned door sill of the old girl leaned out holding the opened outside side of the door, fell off backwards and pulled the old thing back onto its wheels, this enabled Carol the then girlfriend to get out. :eek the only damaged done was wing mirror gone, door handle gone a shed full of paint and fibreglass gone and a broken finger nail with belonged to Carol, she grabbed at the little alloy loop door slam handle and stabbed her finger into it as the old Regal reared up. the good thing is I patched the old regal up, never quite looked the same though.
Carol and I went out for a further 4 years.
I was really upset when she went but there was no way to get her through anymore MOT's :lol :rolleyes
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Carol or the car? 😉
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I still think everyone should ride a bike for at least a year before even contemplating getting in a car.
The grey area is that in 29 years of bike riding, i've never tried driving a car, yet i could jump into a three wheeler motor and be on my way without question!
If you ever get the chance to drive a reliant or similar you'll soon understand why they allowed riders to use them without a full car license.
Saying that though I used to be able to drift mine at wet junctions, much to the amusement of pedestrians
I would still wear a lid, Top Gear stylee.
You can't be ridiculed any more....safety first! ;)
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As soon as the theory test was introduced it should have been part of the cbt and not the main test and only required by those not in possession of full car licence
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I've lost count of the amount of times i've had discussions with new, and even old, car drivers who have no real interest in bikes, about stupidly placed drains, leaves, painted road markings, diesel, oil, petrol, people about to open car doors, BMW drivers, bus drivers, black cabs, BMW drivers, cyclists, BMW drivers, schoolkids, people walking from behind busses, BMW drivers, people crossing between static traffic looking the wrong way, etc.....oh, and BMW drivers, yet they don't really have too much of a clue what i'm on about?
As you're probably aware by now, being a non car driver i'm an absolute nervous wreck as a car passenger!
It was many years ago now, but i took a mate of mine out for a very brief spin on the back of my bike, as i was out with another friend at the time and he'd never been on a bike before.
Firstly, he was a big lump, i've now decided if you're over 10 stone you're way too heavy for my bike as a passenger, due to my own weight/top box/my law.
But in the 10-15mins we were out i've never heard such obscene language directed at other vehicles on the road.
He'd suddenly found himself totally vulnerable and exposed to danger, so when anyone came even close to doing a wrong'un he let them know.
To my sheer delight, once his death defying rollercoaster ride was over (a lot like me going to work every day) his response was fantastic.
In just a very short space of time his attitude towards bikers dramatically changed, but in a very positive way.
I did nothing wrong, we had no incidents, not that i cared about anyway, it was just a quick ride out, yet it opened his eyes from a totally different angle.
He even got off the bike saying "What a bunch of ****s out there", yet to me it had all gone smoothly. :lol
I'm meeting him at a mates 40th in March, and i'll mention this story to him and see what he thinks now. As i said this was a long time ago so he's had plenty of years to gather his thoughts.
NOTE: BMW drivers should be included as part of the Theory Test.
Q: "..If you see a BMW driver, what should you do?.."
A: "..Presume they (always unintentionally) want to hurt you, so avoid them at all costs and take a wide berth whenever possible.."
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@agree Dude
the point I was making was obviously missed. The point was if the car test was as hard to do and get to "unlimited" status, there would be an outcry but as bikes are a minority transport they get picked on unfailrly. The reason used for picking on bike is related to the accident statistics for KSI's in bike accidents vs. car accidents and the fact that proportionally we are involved in more accidents than car drivers.
Some of this is true. Some is bollocks. Car drivers have a lot more accidents than recorded, its just that they can still drive away so goes unrecorded.
If drivers were made to spend 12 months (or more) on a bike before they were allowed behind the wheel of a car, the number of bike accidents would go down as the myopic ones would suddenly be more aware of their surroundings and look out for bikes.
Well said :thumbup
I think they'd rather motorcycles weren't on the roads at all. They can't uninvent them, so therefore they make it as hard as possible to obtain a licence hoping that will put most people off riding.
Aside from accident statistics I think a lot of the negative feeling towards bikes is raised by filtering.
I know several car drivers who are enraged by bikes filtering through traffic, not because they feel it is particularly dangerous, but because that they see it as 'queue jumping'.
They view it the same as pushing in at the supermarket.
The attitude is: 'I've got to sit stuck in the queue, why should you get to the front before me?!'
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@agree Dude
the point I was making was obviously missed. The point was if the car test was as hard to do and get to "unlimited" status, there would be an outcry but as bikes are a minority transport they get picked on unfailrly. The reason used for picking on bike is related to the accident statistics for KSI's in bike accidents vs. car accidents and the fact that proportionally we are involved in more accidents than car drivers.
Some of this is true. Some is bollocks. Car drivers have a lot more accidents than recorded, its just that they can still drive away so goes unrecorded.
If drivers were made to spend 12 months (or more) on a bike before they were allowed behind the wheel of a car, the number of bike accidents would go down as the myopic ones would suddenly be more aware of their surroundings and look out for bikes.
Well said :thumbup
I think they'd rather motorcycles weren't on the roads at all. They can't uninvent them, so therefore they make it as hard as possible to obtain a licence hoping that will put most people off riding.
Aside from accident statistics I think a lot of the negative feeling towards bikes is raised by filtering.
I know several car drivers who are enraged by bikes filtering through traffic, not because they feel it is particularly dangerous, but because that they see it as 'queue jumping'.
They view it the same as pushing in at the supermarket.
The attitude is: 'I've got to sit stuck in the queue, why should you get to the front before me?!'
My boss text me a couple of months back saying traffic was at a standstill, just as a warning, so i text him back saying cheers for the heads up,
He wasn't wrong, the traffic started outside my house, nearly 6 miles away from work, so i knew i was in for a bad journey.
Anyway, when turning up bang on time he was astounded and asked me how i got there so quick, bearing in mind some people turned up two and a half hours late, later on.
Simple, i rode the whole journey on the other side of the road, as that side was really empty and it seemed a waste not to make use of it. :lol
Technically i wasn't even breaking the law as i'm allowed to overtake static traffic, and there were no hard white lines.
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I've lost count of the amount of times i've had discussions with new, and even old, car drivers who have no real interest in bikes, about stupidly placed drains, leaves, painted road markings, diesel, oil, petrol, people about to open car doors, BMW drivers, bus drivers, black cabs, BMW drivers, cyclists, BMW drivers, schoolkids, people walking from behind busses, BMW drivers, people crossing between static traffic looking the wrong way, etc.....oh, and BMW drivers, yet they don't really have too much of a clue what i'm on about?
As you're probably aware by now, being a non car driver i'm an absolute nervous wreck as a car passenger!
It was many years ago now, but i took a mate of mine out for a very brief spin on the back of my bike, as i was out with another friend at the time and he'd never been on a bike before.
Firstly, he was a big lump, i've now decided if you're over 10 stone you're way too heavy for my bike as a passenger, due to my own weight/top box/my law.
But in the 10-15mins we were out i've never heard such obscene language directed at other vehicles on the road.
He'd suddenly found himself totally vulnerable and exposed to danger, so when anyone came even close to doing a wrong'un he let them know.
To my sheer delight, once his death defying rollercoaster ride was over (a lot like me going to work every day) his response was fantastic.
In just a very short space of time his attitude towards bikers dramatically changed, but in a very positive way.
I did nothing wrong, we had no incidents, not that i cared about anyway, it was just a quick ride out, yet it opened his eyes from a totally different angle.
He even got off the bike saying "What a bunch of ****s out there", yet to me it had all gone smoothly. :lol
I'm meeting him at a mates 40th in March, and i'll mention this story to him and see what he thinks now. As i said this was a long time ago so he's had plenty of years to gather his thoughts.
NOTE: BMW drivers should be included as part of the Theory Test.
Q: "..If you see a BMW driver, what should you do?.."
A: "..Presume they (always unintentionally) want to hurt you, so avoid them at all costs and take a wide berth whenever possible.."
I think thats very unfair on BMW drivers………………….
Add Audi drivers to the list as well!
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@agree Dude
the point I was making was obviously missed. The point was if the car test was as hard to do and get to "unlimited" status, there would be an outcry but as bikes are a minority transport they get picked on unfailrly. The reason used for picking on bike is related to the accident statistics for KSI's in bike accidents vs. car accidents and the fact that proportionally we are involved in more accidents than car drivers.
Some of this is true. Some is bollocks. Car drivers have a lot more accidents than recorded, its just that they can still drive away so goes unrecorded.
If drivers were made to spend 12 months (or more) on a bike before they were allowed behind the wheel of a car, the number of bike accidents would go down as the myopic ones would suddenly be more aware of their surroundings and look out for bikes.
Well said :thumbup
I think they'd rather motorcycles weren't on the roads at all. They can't uninvent them, so therefore they make it as hard as possible to obtain a licence hoping that will put most people off riding.
Aside from accident statistics I think a lot of the negative feeling towards bikes is raised by filtering.
I know several car drivers who are enraged by bikes filtering through traffic, not because they feel it is particularly dangerous, but because that they see it as 'queue jumping'.
They view it the same as pushing in at the supermarket.
The attitude is: 'I've got to sit stuck in the queue, why should you get to the front before me?!'
My boss text me a couple of months back saying traffic was at a standstill, just as a warning, so i text him back saying cheers for the heads up,
He wasn't wrong, the traffic started outside my house, nearly 6 miles away from work, so i knew i was in for a bad journey.
Anyway, when turning up bang on time he was astounded and asked me how i got there so quick, bearing in mind some people turned up two and a half hours late, later on.
Simple, i rode the whole journey on the other side of the road, as that side was really empty and it seemed a waste not to make use of it. :lol
Technically i wasn't even breaking the law as i'm allowed to overtake static traffic, and there were no hard white lines.
But really that just means you were the only numpty not to get 2 1/2 hours off work haha
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I've lost count of the amount of times i've had discussions with new, and even old, car drivers who have no real interest in bikes, about stupidly placed drains, leaves, painted road markings, diesel, oil, petrol, people about to open car doors, BMW drivers, bus drivers, black cabs, BMW drivers, cyclists, BMW drivers, schoolkids, people walking from behind busses, BMW drivers, people crossing between static traffic looking the wrong way, etc.....oh, and BMW drivers, yet they don't really have too much of a clue what i'm on about?
As you're probably aware by now, being a non car driver i'm an absolute nervous wreck as a car passenger!
It was many years ago now, but i took a mate of mine out for a very brief spin on the back of my bike, as i was out with another friend at the time and he'd never been on a bike before.
Firstly, he was a big lump, i've now decided if you're over 10 stone you're way too heavy for my bike as a passenger, due to my own weight/top box/my law.
But in the 10-15mins we were out i've never heard such obscene language directed at other vehicles on the road.
He'd suddenly found himself totally vulnerable and exposed to danger, so when anyone came even close to doing a wrong'un he let them know.
To my sheer delight, once his death defying rollercoaster ride was over (a lot like me going to work every day) his response was fantastic.
In just a very short space of time his attitude towards bikers dramatically changed, but in a very positive way.
I did nothing wrong, we had no incidents, not that i cared about anyway, it was just a quick ride out, yet it opened his eyes from a totally different angle.
He even got off the bike saying "What a bunch of ****s out there", yet to me it had all gone smoothly. :lol
I'm meeting him at a mates 40th in March, and i'll mention this story to him and see what he thinks now. As i said this was a long time ago so he's had plenty of years to gather his thoughts.
NOTE: BMW drivers should be included as part of the Theory Test.
Q: "..If you see a BMW driver, what should you do?.."
A: "..Presume they (always unintentionally) want to hurt you, so avoid them at all costs and take a wide berth whenever possible.."
I think you was a bit too kind to cyclists they should have atleast levelled bmw mentions. Especially Boris bikers who should have to do cbt before being allowed on the pavements, roads and super highway
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@agree Dude
the point I was making was obviously missed. The point was if the car test was as hard to do and get to "unlimited" status, there would be an outcry but as bikes are a minority transport they get picked on unfailrly. The reason used for picking on bike is related to the accident statistics for KSI's in bike accidents vs. car accidents and the fact that proportionally we are involved in more accidents than car drivers.
Some of this is true. Some is bollocks. Car drivers have a lot more accidents than recorded, its just that they can still drive away so goes unrecorded.
If drivers were made to spend 12 months (or more) on a bike before they were allowed behind the wheel of a car, the number of bike accidents would go down as the myopic ones would suddenly be more aware of their surroundings and look out for bikes.
Well said :thumbup
I think they'd rather motorcycles weren't on the roads at all. They can't uninvent them, so therefore they make it as hard as possible to obtain a licence hoping that will put most people off riding.
Aside from accident statistics I think a lot of the negative feeling towards bikes is raised by filtering.
I know several car drivers who are enraged by bikes filtering through traffic, not because they feel it is particularly dangerous, but because that they see it as 'queue jumping'.
They view it the same as pushing in at the supermarket.
The attitude is: 'I've got to sit stuck in the queue, why should you get to the front before me?!'
My boss text me a couple of months back saying traffic was at a standstill, just as a warning, so i text him back saying cheers for the heads up,
He wasn't wrong, the traffic started outside my house, nearly 6 miles away from work, so i knew i was in for a bad journey.
Anyway, when turning up bang on time he was astounded and asked me how i got there so quick, bearing in mind some people turned up two and a half hours late, later on.
Simple, i rode the whole journey on the other side of the road, as that side was really empty and it seemed a waste not to make use of it. :lol
Technically i wasn't even breaking the law as i'm allowed to overtake static traffic, and there were no hard white lines.
But really that just means you were the only numpty not to get 2 1/2 hours off work haha
Unfortunately i'm a one man department, and the work needs to be done regardless, so i don't gain anything by going in late, it would just make me stay later as i work to deadlines.
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Carol or the car? 😉
The old Regal of course!
FFS mtread sharpen up mate. lol
I loved that old van, I lost my virginity in the back of that.
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I knew 😉I had a Regal too, and a Janet. Regularly got both off the ground 😀
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the car and bike test are both a con to make money. I took my bike test twenty years after my car, and had to do a theory test and the hazard perception , the hazard I passed and the guy said it was one of the best he had seen. I should think so after how long I have driven. the theory test what a joke, one question was what do I do if my windscreen steams up, f,f,sake . it was the same as the car theory of which I have a full license. so WHY O WHY.
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Technically i wasn't even breaking the law as i'm allowed to overtake static traffic, and there were no hard white lines.
Interestingly, provided the traffic is not moving you *are* legally allowed to overtake even if there is a solid white line on your side of the road! The actual wording is "You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle".
Now I've checked and "stationary" simply means "not moving", I'd always thought before that meant eg "parked" or "with the engine off", but that's not what it says.
You have to be careful, of course, because, if the traffic starts moving whilst you're going past, you are committing an offence and if you were to have an accident, you'd very probably be judged as being in the wrong as you'd need to justify that it was entirely "necessary".
But, none the less, it's useful to know and it can be very handy for making progress in situations like you describe :)
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Technically i wasn't even breaking the law as i'm allowed to overtake static traffic, and there were no hard white lines.
Interestingly, provided the traffic is not moving you *are* legally allowed to overtake even if there is a solid white line on your side of the road! The actual wording is "You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle".
Now I've checked and "stationary" simply means "not moving", I'd always thought before that meant eg "parked" or "with the engine off", but that's not what it says.
You have to be careful, of course, because, if the traffic starts moving whilst you're going past, you are committing an offence and if you were to have an accident, you'd very probably be judged as being in the wrong as you'd need to justify that it was entirely "necessary".
But, none the less, it's useful to know and it can be very handy for making progress in situations like you describe :)
Add to that that you can cross solid white lines to overtake slow moving trafficwith a flashing yellow lights, so buy loads of them and out them on the roof of vehicles as you go past. :lol
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I knew 😉I had a Regal too, and a Janet. Regularly got both off the ground 😀
I had a regal van with a bench seat in the back, picked up a couple of girls going to a nightclub one evening, they asked me to drop them round the corner, of course I delivered them straight to the front door lol
Bloody awful thing to drive, no anti roll bar meant it would wallow down the road every time you hit a bump etc
Had a drive in a Bond Bug a few years ago, like a sports car in comparison