old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: DangerNoodle on 16 November 2016, 10:14:31 pm
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Okay so as much as I hate starting out with a negative post, this is quite important.
I picked up a 2000 Model FZS recently and everything seemed good, It started and ran both before and after transport from Liverpool to my house. The bike stopped running seemingly dye to lack of petrol, as I was putting it away and has since refused to start. So far I have filled the tank to rule out lack of petrol, charged the battery and checked the emergency cut out isn't active but still it won't start.
When I try using the starter there is no noise whatsoever, the only thing that happens is the engine light comes on along with the yellow light next to the fuel gauge. Any ideas will be appreciated!
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is it in gear? make sure it's in neutral. could be a dodgy side stand switch or kill switch.
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It's definitely in neutral, both standard have been dropped and lifted before and after attempting the start as far as the kill switch, thst is possible because I don't have the kit to check that is 100%.
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Was the bike sitting around for long before buying it?
Just 'cos you've charged the battery doesn't mean the battery is good.
Try jumps leads from a car WITH THE CAR ENGINE OFF, and see if it starts. Obviously easier for someone to press the button while you hold the leads on, as they don't really clip on too well..
If it starts, dud battery.
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Always wise to check the fuses particularly the ignition fuse
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True I'll see if I can get some jump leads tomorrow and test that idea out. As far as the ignition fuse, is it located in the 'fuse' box?
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Yep, fuse box under the seat near the battery.
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Dirt corrosion on contacts either switch,solanoid,starter also bad earth can do this,put a screwdriver across the solanoid terminals if it turns over problem is the switch end.
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I had a similar problem with mine about two weeks ago
Pressed the starter button and nothing happened at all
No clicking from the solenoid
It turned out that the alarm loop plug had come disconnected.
The alarm loop plugs (two of them) are located under the seat near the CDI box.
I think that's where you connect an alarm if you have one.
How one of them got disconnected... I've no idea.
Anyway thanks to 'Unfazed' it now seems to work fine.
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If the lights on the dash are illuminating and the engine isn't cranking then the kill switch is turned off or it thinks its in gear.
Try this.
Make sure the kill switch is ON
Make sure the neutral light is ON
Make sure the side stand is UP
make sure the clutch lever is pulled IN
and press the start button
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Cheers everyone, I'll go through these suggestions today and get back to you with my results.
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So far the culprit seems to be a blown fuse in the ignition circuit. Haven't had chance to test it yet because I have none to hand. Thst and I've lost the block thst the positive battery terminal screws in to -_-
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If it is a blown fuse then you still have to find the reason it has blown.
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If it is a blown fuse then you still have to find the reason it has blown.
Could just be old age. too many heating and cooling cycles and the just go.
As an aircraft engineer I was taught, find the fault before resetting any circuit breakers or replacing any fuses. Real life taught me, reset the damn thing and see if it goes again, that way, IF it goes again you may see the spark or hear the pop where the problem is. At worst, you will at least have a fresh puff of smoke to sniff for.
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I am hoping it's more of an 'old age' issue since when it blew the bike was already running and I was actually riding it into its storage. But as always I'll get the fuse in, start it up, and I'll get back with the outcome.
Cheers everyone so far :)
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Replaced the fuse and still nothing. Getting the two lights when I press the ignition switch but still no signs of attempting ignition.
Checked and replaced the ignition fuse,
checked the solenoid fuses and they're fine, battery charge seems fine after checking it on a trickle charger.
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At the start of the thread you said the engine light is on ?? And the fuel gauge warning light , but no neutral light ?? Or does the neutral light go out when starter pressed ?? .
I just tried starting mine after being laid up for a while and the battery was almost dead but not enough to turn starter and the lights went out when the starter was pressed due to the current drain,
Are you 100% the battery isn't shagged ? Is it the correct battery or check solenoid I had one go ages ago and it didn't click it was like I had a dead battery so I got a battery same fault then after much fault finding stuck a screwdriver across the starter motor connectors and hey presto it turned over the solenoid was shagged , you said the solenoid fuse was ok did you check the solenoid or just the fuse ??
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Was the fuse definitely blown???
Did you check the other fuses??
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Definitely blown, took it out and checked under light. Checked every other fuse in the box plus the ones in the Solenoid. The only one I needed to replace was the blown ignition fuse.
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In reply to Graham yes the neutral light was on when I turned the key, the fuel light (yellow) and the engine light (red) came on when I pressed the starter.
As far as the solenoid I only checked fuses as it started to rain and my bike is outside. If its dry tomorrow I'll try the bypass.
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Humour me, and try a jump lead start!
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I don't have any leads Darsi, otherwise I would do.
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If you want to bypass the starter cut out relay and circuits:
Connect the white/blue wire from the solenoid to the white/blue wire in the brown plug in wiring junction box under the tank
The white/blue wire in the brown plug runs to the starter button
I had a very similar problem last week.
Ultimately it turned out to be one of the alarm loop wires under the seat near the cdi box (the plug had come partially disconnected)
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I don't have any leads Darsi, otherwise I would do.
That's what neighbours are for. ;)
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Haha agreed but the guy went and got a girlfriend and is more often at her house now :')
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It could be dodgy kill switch, but it would not cause the fuse to blow.
To give a little insight
The Ignition fuse you replaced supplies power to the solenoid and ECU (ignitor would be the correct term for the one in the fazer).
It also supplies power via the kill switch to the coils and the two relays in Starter cut box under the left side panel.
The relays in the Starter Cut box are the solenoid primary relay and the fuel pump relay.
Pressing the starter button supplies an earth via contacts of the solenoid primary relay to operate the Solenoid, which means this relay needs to be working for the solenoid to operate
A faulty side stand switch will not stop the engine turning over/starting if neutral light is on.
Check as Paul said the whitish looped connectors under the seat on the left side behind the frame cross brace to ensure they are connected properly and not corroded as these looped plugs are part of the starter and ignition circuits.
A simple way to test the kill switch if you do not have a meter or tester is to drain one bowl of the carbs.
Turn off the kill switch
Turn on the ignition switch
Turn on the kill switch, if kill switch is working the fuel pump will start clicking.
If it does not click check the fuse again.
If you have proved the kill switch to be working ok then try bypassing the solenoid with an insulated pliars or something strong but insulated like a piece of thick wire which will bridge the connectors. It will make a lot of sparking so beware. Let us know how you get on.
Word of warning, be extremely carefull not to earth the item you are bridging the solenoid contacts with
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Okay so if I'm reading this correctly the problem is somewhere in the ignition circuit rather than an issue with a stand? I need to check the white looped plugs then try, if that doesn't work drain a carb and test the kill switch? By the way, does the switch have a fuse within its assembly or is the fuse box the only place?
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Loop plugs as I found them. They all seem secure. Put the battery back on the optimiser as it showed up as needing a top up I think I'll buy a batter just as a matter of course now.
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The fuse you replaced is used by the kill switch to supply power to the coils and start cut out circuit. Nothing in the assembly just small pieces including a small spring
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If the ignition fuse blew I'd be checking around the headstock/ignition switch area for a broken wire that managed to make contact with something earthed. The parts of the wiring harness that get flexed regularly are the most likely places to get trouble, but it's also worth checking anywhere it can get pinched.
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Had a look around the ignition cable and found this... (see photo) so I'm going to re connect it while the new battery arrives (any recommendations?
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Strip both ends back about 3/8" then solder together and cover it with heat shrink, don't forget to slip the heat shrink over one of the wires first.
I would check all the other wires there for damage as well and see if you could move the wires enough to stop them getting chafed again in the future,
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Cheers mate got the wire stripped back and ready to go, just need to order some shrink because I don't own any.
That being said, have you any experience with the shrink and solder tubes?
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Never used the solder tubes but they should work, probably a bit easier to use as well.
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Haha agreed but the guy went and got a girlfriend and is more often at her house now :')
Go break into his shed then :rolleyes
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Had a look around the ignition cable and found this... (see photo) so I'm going to re connect it while the new battery arrives (any recommendations?
That would be your problem and why the fuse blew. Looks like its been pinched due to poor routing rather than chaffing since it looks more like a cut.
With limited tools the Solder tube is probably your easiest option and permanent. Take care to route it properly when complete.
Is it the cable to the switch gear or the Ignition switch difficult to tell from the picture?
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I've not seen those solder/heat shrink tubes before, they look like a great invention, as long as you own a heat gun. :thumbup
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A candle would even do to heat the solder and shrink the insulation, most important is to keep it away from the flame itself, might take a little longer, but will work :)
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I like the look of those heat/shrink solder joiners. I often think about getting one of those trendy kitchen blowtorches for little jobs like this but looks like a lighter will do it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9J9zOW3-74 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9J9zOW3-74)
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Just splicing the wires together will put a rigid section where the loom flexes with the steering which will possibly end up with the same problem again unless the loom can be rerouted so it flexes on another section away from the repair.
Alternatively replace a longer length of the broken wire so it's a bit of new wire that is doing the bending but this means two splices instead of one.
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Candle does sound all nice and that, especially one with a nice strawberry scent perhaps, but not much good in this case for instance in a built up area, or anywhere near possible fuel. :lol
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Yeah, but watch the candle grease, won't do the front mudguard or rad any good dropping it on it :lol
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I like the look of those heat/shrink solder joiners. I often think about getting one of those trendy kitchen blowtorches for little jobs like this but looks like a lighter will do it
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9J9zOW3-74[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9J9zOW3-74[/url])
A kitchen blowtorch would be far too hot I think.
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Evening all, sorry for the lack of replies lately, I'm not dead!
Anyway just an update, I've got a new Yuasa and I'll be installing it tomorrow along with fixing the previously mentioned cable. Fingers crossed that'll fix the issues.
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Okay so while attempting to join the cables I accidentally clipped through one >. < so what thickness cable do I need to buy to rejoin the two sides?
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Okay so while attempting to join the cables I accidentally clipped through one >. < so what thickness cable do I need to buy to rejoin the two sides?
Anything that isn't thinner than what's already there.
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I had a similar problem with mine about two weeks ago
Pressed the starter button and nothing happened at all
No clicking from the solenoid
It turned out that the alarm loop plug had come disconnected.
The alarm loop plugs (two of them) are located under the seat near the CDI box.
I think that's where you connect an alarm if you have one.
How one of them got disconnected... I've no idea.
Anyway thanks to 'Unfazed' it now seems to work fine.
i wonder????
i put a new battery in mine last thursday and its as dead as a dodo already. yet i only have a positive and negative lead going to my battery. anybody have any suggestions
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Just a couple of suggestions did you fully charge new battery before fitting & if you use the steering lock,did you turn the key to much anti clockwise & turn the parking lights on by mistake.
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I had a similar problem with mine about two weeks ago
Pressed the starter button and nothing happened at all
No clicking from the solenoid
It turned out that the alarm loop plug had come disconnected.
The alarm loop plugs (two of them) are located under the seat near the CDI box.
I think that's where you connect an alarm if you have one.
How one of them got disconnected... I've no idea.
Anyway thanks to 'Unfazed' it now seems to work fine.
i wonder????
i put a new battery in mine last thursday and its as dead as a dodo already. yet i only have a positive and negative lead going to my battery. anybody have any suggestions
I'd charge up the battery fully. then start the bike and measure the voltage across the battery while the bike's running and revved to check if it's charging or not or if it's over charging. if the voltage is staying the same or dropping you'll have to test the charging circuit. if it is charging you might have something drawing current while the bike is off. turn the bike off. disconnect one of the wires going to the battery and set your multimeter to amps then connect one of the multimeter leads to the battery and the other to the wire you just disconnected from the battery. check if there's any current draw draining the battery
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I had a similar problem with mine about two weeks ago
Pressed the starter button and nothing happened at all
No clicking from the solenoid
It turned out that the alarm loop plug had come disconnected.
The alarm loop plugs (two of them) are located under the seat near the CDI box.
I think that's where you connect an alarm if you have one.
How one of them got disconnected... I've no idea.
Anyway thanks to 'Unfazed' it now seems to work fine.
i wonder????
i put a new battery in mine last thursday and its as dead as a dodo already. yet i only have a positive and negative lead going to my battery. anybody have any suggestions
I'd charge up the battery fully. then start the bike and measure the voltage across the battery while the bike's running and revved to check if it's charging or not or if it's over charging. if the voltage is staying the same or dropping you'll have to test the charging circuit. if it is charging you might have something drawing current while the bike is off. turn the bike off. disconnect one of the wires going to the battery and set your multimeter to amps then connect one of the multimeter leads to the battery and the other to the wire you just disconnected from the battery. check if there's any current draw draining the battery
You want 14 to 14.75 volts steadily when the bike is running. Obviously anything above is over charging and below could mean your charge circuit is broken.
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Cheers gents, all food for thought :)
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Managed to rejoin the broken cable today and the bike is officially alive and running again!
Thanks everyone for the input, it was massively helpful and I'll absolutely be sticking around the forums now.
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Well done.
Just keep an eye on extra wear by the joins.