old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: tommyardin on 24 September 2016, 03:34:27 pm
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I'm sure it has been covered on many many occasions, but here goes again, an old chestnut.
My FZS600 Foxeye 2002, 03 registered (That's the silver one, yes you got it, the fastest colour) is a great bike and I love it, it has been in my possession for 3.5 years now.
I purchased it with about 28K on the clock, it had been used for commuting, but to be honest the previous owner had treated the bike well, and, I believe it was always been garaged when not in use.
He had a top end service done on the bike about 1K before trading it in (Valve clearances, new inlet manifold rubbers, carb tune and balance) plus a full engine oil/air filter service, including fuel filter and coolant change.
Looking through the bikes history, engine servicing was something of a regular theme with him, he appeared to change the oil and filter every 4K, and air filter every 8K.
So basically the bike was cared for, if not loved as it was a workhorse to him.
I purchased the bike from a dealer at £1,900, knowing I would need to spend some time on her if not money.
I have done the usual things to her, after a full day of washing and polishing and half a tube of Solvo polish on the alloy and chrome, I then purchased a set of S/Steel down pipes and collector, added a S/Steel link pipe and a Pipeworks sports can.
Other upgrades have been blue braided S/Steel brake pipes, back and front. Fitted a S/Steel FAZER radiator gaurd
Front carbon fender extender and matching rear huger, upgraded the headlight bulbs to 100 watt hint of blue units, replaced the side light bulbs with bright LED hint of blue bulbs and added two 50mm 30 watt Cree LED projector spot lights (I want to be seen, I ride with all on in the daytime, plus a bright yellow Full Face Bucket). I have mid blue pin stripped the wheels, matching blue bar end weights and front screen screws, standard screen has been replaced with a flip screen (Not really sure it made any real difference) all the engine case screws have been replaced with blue S/Steel allan screws and other odd bits like the oil filer cap has been replaced with a blue alloy filler cap.
I have the 12 mm front sprocket nut and washer kit waiting to go on.
I have the Nitron gas mono-shock on order, OUCH! £414-00, but have been informed by a number of riders its much better than the Hagon unit, watch this space.
Now to the front end, The Forks, now this in itself is a minefield, some say progressive springs , some say get springs that are matched to your weight, other say stick with the standard springs and drain and clean out the forks and just replace the oil with something like Silkolean Pro fork oil at about 10 -15 weight.
I am open to suggestions from guys who have a valid opinion, IE: Have done the job themselves.
My riding style? I like to crack on a bit but definitely not a scratcher wanting to scuff knees, The old Fazer still motors on, I have had 140 out of her and I honestly believe she has another 5 mph in her.
Handling is OK at best that is why I want to do the suspension upgrades, the back end is up and down like a whores drawers, never thought I would be sea sick on a bike :groan but the Nitron should sort that out.
So any opinions on the front end would be much appreciated.
Cheers guys its a great forum with a shed full of knowledge and experience. :kiss
Tom (tommyardin)
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So i stuck some standard hyperpro progressives in mine, made a world of difference, combined with the R6 shock in the rear end
no more bobbing or diving in corners or under hard breaking, it picks up nicely.....
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Thanks for the info anutz.
One other thing is someone said that by raising the fork stanchions/legs up through the yokes by 15 -20mm is supposed to help, this would drop the nose by that amount and throw the weight more forward, to be honest I'm not sure what the advantage would be as the bikes weight is the bike weight and moving the weight forward with unload the back wheel by that amount.
Anyone have any thoughts?
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dont know the specifics but my gsxr has the forks poking through and its common to do, it changes the steering angles so the bike does turn quicker i think, but i only wanted it to stop dipping in regards to the FZS600, so the firmer springs sorted me out no probs.
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Tommy - as a test, it might be worth changing the fork oil first to a heavier grade (15w) and adding some spacers into the forks. This would effectively stiffen up the front and you can play around with the spacer size. Bigger spacer = firmer linear springs etc. Progressives don't suit every one due to the changing of the spring rate say mid corner when the front is loaded. Staying linear may be the way to go......and it's a damn site cheaper. After all, you have a fair bit of spare time on your hands judging by the lack of dirt on your bike. Got to be worth a go for the cost of fork oil + plastic tubing.
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Got to be worth a go for the cost of fork oil + plastic tubing.
I think I may be setting myself up for a bit of piss taking here :'( what is the plastic tubing for ?
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based on this and the nice graphs, i think it stiffens up the fork by putting you further up its graph for force/compression...
http://www.sportrider.com/technicalities-spring-rate-and-preload (http://www.sportrider.com/technicalities-spring-rate-and-preload)
So one way to make it feel firmer i guess, i did not do this, so not 100% but know some foccers have done
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based on this and the nice graphs, i think it stiffens up the fork by putting you further up its graph for force/compression...
[url]http://www.sportrider.com/technicalities-spring-rate-and-preload[/url] ([url]http://www.sportrider.com/technicalities-spring-rate-and-preload[/url])
So one way to make it feel firmer i guess, i did not do this, so not 100% but know some foccers have done
That's basically it. Imagine a spring in a tube, the you put a spacer in the tube. All you've done is compress the spring which makes the travel shorter and the spring force stronger whilst still keeping it linear. I totally understand the piss taking caution - there is some history between us on that front but not this one mate....trust me. The thicker fork oil is also true - imagine pushing water through a syringe then try it with a thicker oil. The oil will take more force so makes the front suspension firmer.
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Had my 600 foxeye for 10 years although I've kept it pretty standard I have tried dropping the forks before , it's basically doing the same as a jack up kit which come in 2 sizes, 25mm and I think 50mm from lust racing it quickens up the steering but does make it a bit less stable at speed I'm not sure but I think it changes the geometry of the bike but I might be wrong on that.
I have heard of some guys that do a jack up kit and drop forks but it always seemed a bit extreme to do both although dropping forks made it a bit quicker steering , changing fork oil weight did make a difference too that was done by a yam dealer when I took forks in for a rebuild.
Blue is by far the fastest colour for on saying that I've just bought a silver 1000
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Blue is by far the fastest colour for on saying that I've just bought a silver 1000
Ahh! great choice the silver one, I'm glad it's not just me that likes his bikes in primer.
I have been chatting with anutz in messages and he has given me some things to think about fork wise, and some of the graphs that he has posted on here make sense about pre-load and spring rates, my Fazer FZS600 is a Foxy model so it has the pre-load adjusters on the fork tops, but I think I will still try a few large penny washer on top of the springs below the fork tube caps, I would guess bouncing up and down for 38K mile will have compressed/shortened the springs a tad.
The info on linear springs also makes sense to as the spring compression rate remains the same albeit progressive. that sounds like bollocks now I said it. lol :lol
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OEM springs are already progressive, albeit not very good ones.
15w oil does make a big difference for little cost and effort though, it may just do enough for your style of riding.
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Blue is by far the fastest colour for on saying that I've just bought a silver 1000
Ahh! great choice the silver one, I'm glad it's not just me that likes his bikes in primer.
I have been chatting with anutz in messages and he has given me some things to think about fork wise, and some of the graphs that he has posted on here make sense about pre-load and spring rates, my Fazer FZS600 is a Foxy model so it has the pre-load adjusters on the fork tops, but I think I will still try a few large penny washer on top of the springs below the fork tube caps, I would guess bouncing up and down for 38K mile will have compressed/shortened the springs a tad.
The info on linear springs also makes sense to as the spring compression rate remains the same albeit progressive. that sounds like bollocks now I said it. lol :lol
If you look at the length of spring Tommy I would start with about an inch of spacer first go. Only change one thing at a time so either spacers by itself or heavier oil. Changing 2 things gives too many variables to think about. It's only time we're talking about so bit by bit and decent test ride after each tweak. Good luck and we need updates :thumbup
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If you look at the length of spring Tommy I would start with about an inch of spacer first go. Only change one thing at a time so either spacers by itself or heavier oil. Changing 2 things gives too many variables to think about. It's only time we're talking about so bit by bit and decent test ride after each tweak. Good luck and we need updates :thumbup
Thanks for the advice Frosties (You little Tiger you) but it makes sense, one thing at a time and then the changes can be accurately assessed, rather than doing a number of things and not being able to pinpoint the thing that has made the most significant difference.
15 weight Silkolean Pro Fork oil first and give it a couple of weeks, to assess. and move on to more pre-load by adding spacers/large penny washer to the tops of the springs. then maybe lifting the fork stanchion/tubes by 15mm through the yokes to add a bit more down-force at the front end and hopefully sharpen up the turn in.
Bit at a time is good advice. Thanks. :kiss
I don't think the old Fazer FZS600 steers or handles badly, it's just not inspiring, and, all the confidence boosters this old fart can get will be gratefully received. I feel the chicken strips are laughing at me now, the tyres have done about 600 miles and I still have 3/4" of virgin rubber on both side of the back tyre.
Me dreaming on a Tyco, Mrs said get off it and act your bloody age not you shoe size, they can be so hurtful at times.
But in all fairness to her she cuts me a lot of slack in life, bless her. :rolleyes
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You'll need heavier fork oil, 15w probably the best compromise. Then you WILL need different fork springs, as adding preload can't compensate for the standard items. They are dual-rate, but the 'soft' part of the spring is too soft and the 'hard' part of the spring is too hard. Replace them with springs more suited to your weight. I used VFR800 springs with the fork's inner steel spacers recut to size. Then finally, for the harshness in the damper rod forks I used emulators, which brings them close to cartridge forks for ride quality. If you don't do the first two mods above, the forks will never handle well enough to satisfy 'spirited' riding. the third is an optional luxury but I wouldn't go without it.
For the rear use a modified 2008-2016 R6 shock. It's a mod that I pinched from the Fazer 1000 brigade and can work just as well for the 600's with the correct weight spring and a few other parts.
For comparison, I had a Nitron 'Track' model fitted to my old FZS1000 and it was only slightly better than when I had the R6 shock fitted, but almost three times the price.
Save yourself a few hundred £££ exploring the options above ... I've documented all this stuff across this forum if you search for it long enough
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Cheers Kebab,
That is what I am looking for, as much advice and ideas as I can get from guys who have done the business, I have to admit though I am a bit on the stuborn side and have set my heart on the Nitron Mono-Shock.
I have heard nothing but praise from guys who have used them, not just on the FOC-U forum but from riders of different machines, the general consensus is that its the best you can get without going for a full race blown unit.
I'm not a scratcher, but I do like to ride in a spirited manner and wish to run the chicken strips off my rear tyre, so I have plumped for the Nitron on the rear and will slowly try to improve the front end, firstly with 15 weight Silkolene Pro in the forks, and, if necessary go down the spring change route.Thanks guys for your wisdom and great advice. :kiss
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Hey Tommy, nowt wrong with sitting on that Tyco, if you want it and can afford it then have it - one life so enjoy it.
Acting your age never comes into it - my kids are always telling me to grow up. Only a state of mind as you know, biking keeps you young.
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Hey Tommy, nowt wrong with sitting on that Tyco, if you want it and can afford it then have it - one life so enjoy it.
Acting your age never comes into it - my kids are always telling me to grow up. Only a state of mind as you know, biking keeps you young.
I just looked at the Tyco pictures again and really believe its an omen, check out my socks they are perfect for the Tyco colour scheme, it is obviously meant to be, so I am changing the word from Omen to Amen. :book
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Just watched the Guy Martin prog on Channel 4, the idiot is now going to cross the English Channel on a pedal power helium filled Air Ship.
That Man's Balls are massive, lol!
He has no fear and he is incredibley fit, and strong as an OX.
He flipped over/righted in a swimming pool a 29 man emergency life raft by himself ,the military said they would expect it to take two men to flip it in water because of the suction effect of the water.
In guy's own words ' ITS PROPER '
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tommy when I got my latest 600 it had done 51000 miles & the suspension was shagged! After all it was basic when new.
Near me in West Mids (Halesowen) reside Revs Racing who only do suspension. I ordered a Wilbers rear shock((quality German brand) with spring designed for my weight -&.riding style which I suspect is similar to yours. To say it transformed the handling would be an understatement but it then highlighted the tired front end. So they rebuilt the front forks with new springs, seals & heavier weight oil. She now goes where I point her. Didnt want to mess about with jacking up rear/altering front fork leg height in yokes. Cost was £295 for rear unit & £212 for front rebuild. Very happy I am-no more pogo sticks :lol
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£295 for a Wilbers shock sounds like a bargain
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Hey Tommy, nowt wrong with sitting on that Tyco, if you want it and can afford it then have it - one life so enjoy it.
Acting your age never comes into it - my kids are always telling me to grow up. Only a state of mind as you know, biking keeps you young.
I just looked at the Tyco pictures again and really believe its an omen, check out my socks they are perfect for the Tyco colour scheme, it is obviously meant to be, so I am changing the word from Omen to Amen. :book
Errrrrrrrr, shit socks and Sketchers = old age Tommy mate. Feckin bin 'em :lol :lol
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Fuck off I only just got rid of my Y fronts :'(
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Don't panic mate - all sorted :D
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Is the fazer worth doing about £600 senpension mods, all these other mods when... It's just a fazer?
I might offend a few people saying that but i have just bought a cheap one to run around, and as fun as it is - It's no match against my ZX6R or newer up right bikes
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Is the fazer worth doing about £600 senpension mods, all these other mods when... It's just a fazer?
I might offend a few people saying that but i have just bought a cheap one to run around, and as fun as it is - It's no match against my ZX6R or newer up right bikes
I think £600 is a lot against a 1-2k bike.
I actually find nothing wrong with the suspension although only 18k on the clock and I have been the owner for 15 years, I only weigh between 9.5 and 10 stone so perhaps the suspension doesn't get abused much.
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Is the fazer worth doing about £600 senpension mods, all these other mods when... It's just a fazer?
I might offend a few people saying that but i have just bought a cheap one to run around, and as fun as it is - It's no match against my ZX6R or newer up right bikes
It depends on whether you're keeping the bike medium to long-term.
The suspension is by far the weakest point in the package, fix both ends properly (no half-measures) and you basically have an upright FZR600R giving 50+ mpg, 200 mile + tank range, room for a full size pillion, fairly low insurance group, 24k valve clearances, hard luggage capability, having a useable engine midrange for the road and being able to get off it after 300 miles without booking an osteopath appointment.
Also, according to this month's Classic & Motorcycle Mechanics, it's also destined to become a future classic and prices are at an all-time low before they inevitably start picking up again.
Just as a matter of interest, what newer, upright BUDGET bikes did you feel were better, since the FZS600 was Yamaha's Bandit 6 rival and we should be comparing apples with apples?
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Don't panic mate - all sorted :D
Wooo! wooo!
Where do I buy a pair of them bad boys :eek
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Is the fazer worth doing about £600 senpension mods, all these other mods when... It's just a fazer?
I might offend a few people saying that but i have just bought a cheap one to run around, and as fun as it is - It's no match against my ZX6R or newer up right bikes
I think £600 is a lot against a 1-2k bike.
I actually find nothing wrong with the suspension although only 18k on the clock and I have been the owner for 15 years, I only weigh between 9.5 and 10 stone so perhaps the suspension doesn't get abused much.
Foccing heck!
Fazersharp you really are a racing snake, I will get the Red Cross to pop around your pad with a Food Parcel.
I thought I was a racing snake at 12.5 stones.
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when... It's just a fazer? Kebab! Kebab! (Oh another thing Kebab you should never spell Fazer with a lower case 'f' its rude.
What the foc are you saying man? 'JUST A FAZER' how do you sleep at night?
You do realise this is The Fazer Owners Forum don't you?
Admin bounce his arse out of here LOL!
My ole 2003 FZS600 is worth spending 600 quid on (Hoping to sort it for £500)
It is in great condition 38K on the clock, pulls like a train, have to admit it does handle mediocre, not badly, but not in a inspiring way, but I love the retro look of her and she is comfortable.
My thinking on it is this, If I throw it up the road cos the back is bouncing about like Jordan's breasts, I am going to knock some bark off me at the very least, and, the bikes value will be much lower if anything at all (Depends how hard I throw it I guess) so £500 to Poss £600 is a good investment and I should get more mileage out of my tyres cos I have 3/4" of rear tyre each side not brought into play as yet.
There you are, you know it makes sense. :lol
A thousand apologies Kebab (grovel grovel) :kiss :kiss :wall :uhuh
It was Html who was was coming out with blasphemy. Only a fazer (notice his use of the far inferior lower case 'f')
Html likens the Fazer to his Kwacker ZX6R, completely different beasts designed for completely different tasks. London to Edinbourgh on that Kwacker would be a killer for my old bones but on the Fazer manageable.
But I do have to admit as to taking a liking to the Ninja.
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when... It's just a fazer? Kebab! Kebab! (Oh another thing Kebab you should never spell Fazer with a lower case 'f' its rude.
What the foc are you saying man? 'JUST A FAZER' how do you sleep at night?
You do realise this is The Fazer Owners Forum don't you?
Admin bounce his arse out of here LOL!
My ole 2003 FZS600 is worth spending 600 quid on (Hoping to sort it for £500)
It is in great condition 38K on the clock, pulls like a train, have to admit it does handle mediocre, not badly, but not in a inspiring way, but I love the retro look of her and she is comfortable.
My thinking on it is this, If I throw it up the road cos the back is bouncing about like Jordan's breasts, I am going to knock some bark off me at the very least, and, the bikes value will be much lower if anything at all (Depends how hard I throw it I guess) so £500 to Poss £600 is a good investment and I should get more mileage out of my tyres cos I have 3/4" of rear tyre each side not brought into play as yet.
There you are, you know it makes sense. :lol
On the sauce last night perchance? :b
Kebab has been around here more than long enough to never ever belittle a Fazer, you're addressing the wrong person! :pokefun
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There are those who spend their cash on "Bling"(Tommys socks spring to mind here!) and then you have FAZER owners who LOVE their bikes & actually ride for fun-not just as a workhorse commuter although thay are good at that also.
When the Fazer was new it had to compete in the price dept with other "budget" bikes so the way Yamaha saved a few yen was in the suspension area. Fortunately they had a lot of Blue Spot calipers left in the parts bin to go with the proven Thundercat derived motor. So now we have a bike that goes & stops like a good un.
Economy suspension might be ok for the more sedate,lightweight rider for a year or so from new but most of us FAZER afficionados know that springs and oil get tired and to buy a well used but cared for example it makes sense to UPGRADE the worn out bits & REPLACE with good stuff that does what it says on the tin.
According to the knowledgeable guys at Revs Racing-even the likes of BMW, Triumph etc are economising on the standard of shocks fitted to their new bikes & in their opinion the shocks fitted to say the MT07 are inferior to those fitted by Yamaha as OEM to their "budget" bikes of 10 years ago.
This is similar philosophy to makers of white electrical goods over the last few years who have kept their RRPs down at the expense of longevity/reliability.
An example of this is the "cheap" TV i bought 3 years ago-the built in DVD player failed soon after the warranty ended & I have just replaced my upright fridge/freezer after 5 years. My previous one lasted 18 years! At least I didnt buy one of those tumble driers that self combust! :eek
So for those who might think spending money on suspension is a waste-DONT KNOCK IT TIL YOU TRY IT :lol
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Im with Fazersharp on the £600 suspension on a £1500 bike thing . I'd be more likely to sell the fazer and put the £600 toward a £2100 lower mileage bike with far less worn components.. I love all my bikes but never get that attached to any.. :)
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Im with Fazersharp on the £600 suspension on a £1500 bike thing . I'd be more likely to sell the fazer and put the £600 toward a £2100 lower mileage bike with far less worn components.. I love all my bikes but never get that attached to any.. :)
I did my suspension for one reason, to make sure it stays on the road with 18 and a bit stone pootling around on it - now i have a thousand i am moving the R6 shock i had on the FZS600 over to that.
The R6 shock is the cheapest route i expect and if you go to a 1000 it can be re-used....so for me its worked out well....
I did look at racetech but the pure cost was too much, i ended up spending around 300 all in to get the front and rear sorted, i was lucky to find a set of hyperpro progressives on ebay, but spacers and other tricks can save a lot of money here.
Anutz
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Foccing heck!
Fazersharp you really are a racing snake, I will get the Red Cross to pop around your pad with a Food Parcel.
I thought I was a racing snake at 12.5 stones.
Yep I weigh about the same as a tank of petrol -- basically the bike doesn't know I'm there.
When you think of some of the things that people spend there money on, bike bling or personal goodies, suspension would be one of the more worthy and benefit producing spends.
For me, one day I will sell and get a 1 or 2 year old speed triple and I would never get that £600 back.
The Racing Snake :lol I think I am going to change my user name
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Cost for my bike's setup:
Modded R6 shock £200
Fork Oil £20 (max)
Fork Springs £80 (well actually, mine were from a VFR800 and about £10 off ebay)
Debrix Emulators £60
That's a fair bit short of £600 even by my pitiful maths abilities and the emulators are optional
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Cost for my bike's setup:
Modded R6 shock £200
Fork Oil £20 (max)
Fork Springs £80 (well actually, mine were from a VFR800 and about £10 off ebay)
Debrix Emulators £60
That's a fair bit short of £600 even by my pitiful maths abilities and the emulators are optional
Hey Kabab,
Enlighten this simple country boy, WTF are Emulators? and what function do they have and do they help?
The Nitron shock is expensive a tad less than 415 quid, I am hoping that a fork clean out and recharge with 15 weight oil will improve the situation up front and maybe the next stage for the forks will be pre-load shims/washers added to top of springs then next try raising the fork tubes up through the yokes by 15mm.
I'm hoping to be done by 450 maybe 500 quid if I change the springs for linears matched to my elf like gazell weight.
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Hey Kabab,
Enlighten this simple country boy, WTF are Emulators? and what function do they have and do they help?
Emulators are small oil valve mechanisms created by Race Tech about 20 years ago that fit inside your fork legs & emulate the compression stroke of cartridge forks. Fazers (and most other budget bikes) have forks with damping rod internals within which have a fixed orifice oil hole size that flows oil at a particular speed; they work good at one 'speed' and feel a bit harsh everywhere else. Emulators open at a variable speed to let differing amounts of fork oil through, hence they get rid of the harshness you normally feel.
The 'catch' is that you drill out the standard damper rod oil hole orifices, so only the Emulator transfers fork oil. In other words, it's a permanent alteration to the forks (unless you buy a spare pair of damping rods). This puts quite a few people off...
The original Race Tech versions are expensive, available from PDQ for around £150. There are however cheaper 'Debrix' versions from the far East which are surprisingly good quality and about a quarter of the price.
Technical explanation for Gold Valve Emulators:
http://www.sportrider.com/technicalities-damping-rod-forks-and-race-tech-gold-valve-emulator?image=0 (http://www.sportrider.com/technicalities-damping-rod-forks-and-race-tech-gold-valve-emulator?image=0)
Emulatro installation guide for FZS600 forks:
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,71.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,71.0.html)