old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: anutz on 24 August 2016, 06:45:06 pm
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Hi All,
So i usually frequent the FZS600 section, i have a 2001 box eye....just got a 2003 FZS1000
Over the moon with it but have noticed something i cannot quite figure out...
When i accelerate, in my mind hard, then sometimes it almost feels like the chain jumps a tooth, or the rear wheel skips, i cannot figure it out, i am going to double check the chain slack later, and the rear tyre is a little worn so may need replacing, aside it rides really nice.
It is worth noting its the first 1000cc i have ridden, i do own and ride a GSXR 750, and have not noticed this problem, so maybe its more likely chain and not wheel starting to spin up....
Thanks
Anutz!
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Other possibilities to consider: slop in the suspension such as worn bushes in the linkage or swingarm pivot... or a knackered shock, or the cush drive or a dying wheel /cush bearing.
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Other possibilities to consider: slop in the suspension such as worn bushes in the linkage or swingarm pivot... or a knackered shock, or the cush drive or a dying wheel /cush bearing.
So just checked the front sprocket and its ok...not sure if the chain slack is too much, just got in and i am sure i can head some slight slapping, but again only under hard acceleration do i see this...
how can i test for the above i.e. bushes/bearings, pulling and looking for movement on wheels, swingarms etc?
It rides well just not sure about this skipping/slipping...
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Other possibilities to consider: slop in the suspension such as worn bushes in the linkage or swingarm pivot... or a knackered shock, or the cush drive or a dying wheel /cush bearing.
Have had a good tug around the suspension linkages, and the swingarm, little bit of play in that, but nothing more than what is in my FZS600, or my GSXR750, its play but not around linkages, more as a whole unit....it was the same when it was MOT'd
I will keep an eye, i think the rear tyre is low, so that combined with this happening only as i really wind it on, makes me wonder, will also get a photo of the sprocket so can see what others think, my judgement says its ok but i am no expert...
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I have a similar sensation when I use the back brake hard to slow down. Feels like the chain has jumped, sort of clanking noise. I suppose it could be chain hitting the rubber guide?
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Skipping?
Is your pre-load wound up too hard? The bike needs to be able to squat a little under acceleration to allow the tyre to work.
Bw
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Post up a pic of the front sprocket?
I would say that is odds on!
Whale
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Skipping?
Is your pre-load wound up too hard? The bike needs to be able to squat a little under acceleration to allow the tyre to work.
Bw
Pre-load is on 6 i think....will get a photo of the sprocket up tonight after work.
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Skipping?
Is your pre-load wound up too hard? The bike needs to be able to squat a little under acceleration to allow the tyre to work.
Bw
Lots of info on set up
Here is one
http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm (http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm)
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Front
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/sp1_zpslhwgeo9c.jpg)
Rear
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/sp2_zpssynm0aut.jpg)
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Starting to look hooked I'd say.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
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Is this happening in all gears or just one gear?
Could be gear selector issues, normally 2nd gear caused by ham fisted wheelies.
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Front
([url]http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/sp1_zpslhwgeo9c.jpg[/url])
Rear
([url]http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/sp2_zpssynm0aut.jpg[/url])
On it's way, but not enough to skip, at least not if adjusted correctly
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i am going to adjust the chain, i think its a tad loose, i might have heard it rattling a little last night when i slowed down - will try that first, just servicing exup right now.
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So as suggested by Fazerider...
I have had a good tug at the frame, wheels etc, there is play in the rear wheel, not around the whole circumference, but definite clunking when i try to twist it with hands at top and bottom...
do you think bearing replacment is something i can DIY, or is it best left to someone who has done it before?
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The best way to check for bearing play in the wheel is to remove the caliper. The caliper will and pads will reduce the level of play because of their grip on the disk.
Rattling on slow down could be the EXUP valve is it is not adjusted properly
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So i have the rear caliper off, i just put the wheel in with the hanger etc, and then torqued it all up with the chain adjusted, and rotated it around trying at points to twist it...
When i rotate the rear wheel i can hear and feel different sounds/patterns, as opposed to a smooth running of the chain over the sprockets, and my FZS600 or GSXR750 have no such play when i try to twist their rear wheel...
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at the risk of looking like an idiot, have a video of what i think it play, will stick it up asap....
Anutz
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So this may be normal, i have no idea
https://vimeo.com/180425737
:D
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That front sprocket is scrap and the rear doesn't look too good.
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i will be changing the lot anyway now i have the other issues, may as well give it a good doing over
did u look at the video, is that just normal or not?
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That bearing is definitely knackered!
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You beat me to it, that bearing is totally f***ed!!
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So i suspect i will be doing the following
New Front/Rear sprocket/chain
New Rear Bearings
The chain and sprockets i can change myself i have done that before
have never messed with drifting bearings out and seating new ones, is this best left to the local mechanics?
don't want to nacker the wheel
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If you are confident doing the chain/sprockets, then you'll be fine replacing the bearings. Plenty on here will offer any advice that you'd need.
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Change that bearing, it's focced and change the seal also. :eek
A chain and sprockets won't go astray either.
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Bearing is 60/28 C3 2RS
Seal is 35mm x 52mm x 8mm (unsprung)
The OEM Chain and Sprocket Kit part number is 5LV-W001A-01 and can be reasonably priced, the only down side is that the swinging arm has to come off to fit it as it is an endless chain.
However I find it worthwhile as it allows me inspect and grease linkage and swinging arm bearings at the same time.
! NOTE: If you do the bearing yourself be aware it has a circlip holding it in and is between the seal and the bearing !
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Thanks Unfazed, have a full bearing set on the way with seals etc, and reading up now on whats involved, looks fine as long as i get the thing in straight!
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Just seen the video. Oh dear.
I would be looking at suspension bearings/bushings as well as i'm guessing that bike hasn't seen much tlc.
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Once i have the front sprocket off ( which is proving a challenge ) i will then get the swingarm off and the rear shock will get a good going over, its actually really handling well - so not going to change the shock right now, but the whole rear end needs TLC.
Its like my FZS600 all over again, but its fun!
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Don't break it :lol :lol
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so far so good!
Got the sprocket off with lots of heat and plus gas, so what can go wrong eh?
not going near any exhaust studs.....till Christmas... :evil
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Update...
Chain/Sprockets etc all off, have had a look at the swingarm...
It has tiny movement up and down, just like my 600cc, and this is normal, but it does have a little left and right movement, not normal compared to my FZs600....
So assuming the bearings in here also may need replacing...any other signs to look out for, currently removing swing arm....
:b
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Update...
Chain/Sprockets etc all off, have had a look at the swingarm...
It has tiny movement up and down, just like my 600cc, and this is normal, but it does have a little left and right movement, not normal compared to my FZs600....
So assuming the bearings in here also may need replacing...any other signs to look out for, currently removing swing arm....
:b
Looking at the manual, it does allow for 1mm of side play at the end of the swingarm, will whip mine out and check the bearings and re-grease any way, decide what they are like then, or may just replace them whilst its all in bits, have the rear wheel bearings to do anyway...
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Since you have the rear end stripped out it makes sense to check ALL the bearings & seals-swingarm/suspension linkage/wheel bearings/cush drive rubbers.
Yamaha were never generous with grease in these bearings & being "out of sight" & "in the line of fire" from road shit/wet/salt etc tend to be overlooked until bike develop symptoms like you describe. When you are putting nigh on 140bhp through drivetrain onto road you need to make sure there is no excess play/wear & that caged rollers are free to do their job. Eventually you may want to replace rear shock as at 13 years old it will be well past its best.
The FZS 1000 is an amazing bike-wish i still had mine!
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So i suspect i will be doing the following
New Front/Rear sprocket/chain
New Rear Bearings
The chain and sprockets i can change myself i have done that before
have never messed with drifting bearings out and seating new ones, is this best left to the local mechanics?
don't want to nacker the wheel
If you're replacing the wheel bearings while its all out, take your time drifting the old bearings out, try and drift it out evenly all the way round. Once the first one is out its much easier to access the next one. When you put the new ones in, I always use the old bearing on top of the new one to tap it virtually all the way home, just make sure you don't tap the new one in too far so you can't get it back out! Good luck.
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Thanks for the input Fazerjon....
I am going to get a pic of all the bits i have in order in the wheel...
The bearing i am replacing is on the disc side, i am not sure i will so the others, as they have no play, and are no grinding or crunching...
Access should be ok with a long drift, i can remove all the spacers easily any way to get access....will get a pic
Was a pain to get the oil seal out, rusted in, and now i need some circlip pliers so off to a shop...
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Soak circlip in wd40 they can stick/rust in and be a pain to get out. If really bad you can heat up centre with a small blow torch they then fold in half and come out, but you will need new after.
I know its more expense but its worth replacing both bearings while your at it, they have all done the same mileage and its job done for a good few years.
good luck
Des
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Soak circlip in wd40 they can stick/rust in and be a pain to get out. If really bad you can heat up centre with a small blow torch they then fold in half and come out, but you will need new after.
I know its more expense but its worth replacing both bearings while your at it, they have all done the same mileage and its job done for a good few years.
good luck
Des
I have a set on the way with 3 bearings i.e. 2 for the wheel and one for the sprocket carrier, as well as seals...
I shall read up on the other 2, the one i think may be tricky is the inner rear wheel one behind the sprocket carrier, i can see how to get the one by the disc, the one that is certainly knackered, and the one in the sprocket carrier is not hard, its the spindled one that i am trying to figure out...
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Oil/Dust seal removed, this is the main bearing i wanted to replace, as the video shows its buggered.
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0911_zpslpgj92sq.jpg)
with spacers removed i have good access from the back of it
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0910_zpsf86vzh8c.jpg)
Said spacers...
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0908_zps8nsbdh8i.jpg)
And the other near side bearing, which is ok but may replace, just cannot see much of a lip on it to be able to whack it out from the other side...
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0909_zpsluco6dhv.jpg)
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Done the knackered one, as you can see came out evenly, just took my time as others suggested, was a little nervy but all seems good...
Now...how do i get the other one, the lip is almost none existant?
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0915_zpsgeknpmh5.jpg)
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0916_zpsgaqc2hmw.jpg)
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0918_zpsqoev3gn0.jpg)
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/IMG_0919_zpsqhvmppyf.jpg)
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Anyone any experience on how i get the needle roller bearing out, i.e.the other one in the rear wheel.
I have access to the back of it but its almost got no lip above the inner of the wheel assembly, so dont see how i can use the same technique i used for the other bearing.
Anutz
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Is the needle bearing actually worn? I have only ever replaced one, but many roller bearings. Last roller bearing I replaced was on Downeys bike and the needle and sprocket hub bearings were fine.
Best way to check is is with the axle in and the new bearing lightly seated, unfortunately you have driven the new bearing all the way in and I do not think it is possible to remove the needle bearing without removing the roller bearing first. Thankfully for you if the needle bearing is worn, new roller bearing are very cheap even for branded ones, last FAG one I bought from a local supplier was €10.
Worst case scenario is you will have to remove the roller bearing again and use it to push out the seal thus keeping the seal intact.
Last time I removed one of these needle bearing I used an off cut of steel 300mm long from the local engineering shop the same diameter as the spacer. Dry heat and a good few thumps of a Club hammer should get it out, just ensure it is well supported at a height than the length of the bearing and the space for the bearing to drop out is clear.. It will much harder to get out than the roller.
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Front
([url]http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/sp1_zpslhwgeo9c.jpg[/url])
Rear
([url]http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/sp2_zpssynm0aut.jpg[/url])
On it's way, but not enough to skip, at least not if adjusted correctly
Those sprockets are shot and I suspect the chain is knackered as well, looks like I would be renewing those first before going down another route, they are toast.
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Thanks both...
Unfazed, have not put the new bearings in yet, not even got them yet :)
May be worth doing if i am doing the other one, the sprocket carrier one i can easily do any time...
As for the sprockets/chain, yep doing them without a doubt, if u look at the video i posted a link to earlier you will see why i also ended up removing this bearing..
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So all is well!
Put the new bearing in, i put it in the fridge first, and it went in easily with the old one to whack on, i did shave the old one off all round with a dremmel so no worries with it getting stuck....
Put the new chain on, and riveted it, fun...
End result no play in the back end any where....
But STILL got this slipping/spinning sensation, went to do some overtakes tonight off roundabouts onto A roads, and giving it gas it goes but then almost slips, so might be clutch...
which is fun as never messed with a clutch, and plan to do an oil/filter change soon....
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What type of oil are you running, I found fully synthetic oil made my old 1989 FZR1000 clutch slip and had to change back to mineral oil.
Sure you will get a few reply's ref oil now.
Worth checking clutch plates first
Des
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Hi Des,
Not sure as not done an oil change yet, but will happen next few nights as need to get the sump off to sort the water pump out!
Will be replacing with Semi 10W/40 Motul i think it is and a new filter...
Anutz
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Yep
10/40 is the way to go, as for make that's a 10,000 post question :-)
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I always use silkolene 10W 40 semi with a filter from M&P around £30