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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: andy352299 on 11 March 2012, 08:34:19 pm

Title: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 11 March 2012, 08:34:19 pm

this has probably been done to death but i have treid searching but cannot find the answer i am looking for
so here goes.
i was out on the bike today and some of the roads were fairly bumpy anyway the back end of the bike seemed to wallow and was not very inspiring. the spring is set on the highest preload but one. the front end feels fine.
I am not the fastest or best rider and weight about 12 stone
so i am considering a rear shock change   I am looking for a budget solution
i have seen mention of a 1000 fazer rear shock fitting a 600 but how hard is it and does it alter the ride height
also i have heard of an r6 shock on a 1000 fazer - so will an R6 shock fit a 600 fazer
or should i just accept that i cant ride for toffee
thanks in advance
thanks in advance
 
 

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: FuZzBoM on 11 March 2012, 11:19:07 pm

I have one of these on order http://www.calsport.co.uk/YAMAHA/7793-2003-FZS_600_Fazer_0003/129-Suspension__Handling/Hyperpro_Suspension__Steering_Dampers/145762 (http://www.calsport.co.uk/YAMAHA/7793-2003-FZS_600_Fazer_0003/129-Suspension__Handling/Hyperpro_Suspension__Steering_Dampers/145762)
When i get it and have it fitted i will let you know if its any good.
I have just fitted their fork spring kit and the difference is epic.
The damper itself could be past its best in your case though and the spring might not help at all.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 12 March 2012, 09:54:24 am

There is no direct replacement Yamaha shock bar the Diversion 900 (allegedly).
The 1000 is a close fit but different spring rates & leverage ratio. Not sure if the remote reservoir would foul something.

The FZS600 shock is not rebuildable unless you go the schrader valve route. I believe one of the site members in Scotland can rebuild it using this method, but I don't have their details - may be somewhere on the old FOC-U site if you search there.

Failing that it's a new rear shock, either Hagon or Nitron @ the cheapest end of the market, & I'd plump for a basic Nitron unit.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 12 March 2012, 10:15:58 am

thanks Kebab
 
i was looking on the hagon site and there shock for the fazer has the same part number as the xj900 and xvs110 so maybe

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: thom_1991 on 12 March 2012, 06:26:18 pm

Get a Nitron if you can. I'm sure the Hagon will be an improvement but i've never known anyone be dissapointed with a Nitron.i know even the basic one is a fair wedge of money but also the Nitron will have decent re-sale value if you sell the bike on. At just under 11 stone ifound the stock forks springs far too soft especially considering the power of those bluespots. Definitely worth putting in stronger fork springs imo.  Probably about .9 or .95 kg/mm rated linear springs if you're 12 stone.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 12 March 2012, 06:34:43 pm

thanks for the info about the nitron, the only reason i was looking at the hagon site was to try and cross reference part numbers
 
kebab am i right in thinking you had a trx850, i think they weigh roughly the same i dont suppose you know any of the dimensions for that rear shock i know its a long shot but then again the trx850 rear caliper and bracket bolted straight on. 

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: thom_1991 on 12 March 2012, 08:01:41 pm

IIRC when i looked at a trx shock the spring was about half that of the standard fzs600s shocks spring rating(14.7kg/mm) so it'd be serously under sprung. Annonyingly racetechs site lists spring rates front and back and what weight that spring is correct for, for pretty much every bike EXCEPT the fazer. I took my Nitron (it came from a vfr400...) in to be re-sprung for me and it came back with a 900lb/inch (16.11kg/mm) spring put on so we can assume 16.11 is right for an 11ish stone rider so you'll want a spring even stiffer than that.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: virtual bodysnatcher on 13 March 2012, 08:12:23 am

It's the damping that's really the problem - hence wallowy feeling as it can't control the soft spring, is poor at the best. Have just ordered a Nitron off WE Moto tho' was torn between it and the Hagon, had a Hagon on my zxr750 and it was fine so if you're not using it to "best advantage" I'd go with the Hagon, is a fair bit cheaper than the Nitron and will be a huge improvement over what you've got, rebuilding an OE one I wouldn't think is much of an option as I'm sure by the time you add replacement bits (which I don't expect are in the price....) and be without a shock for the time taken, wouldn't be a huge jump to a new one?


Main reasons I've gone Nitron was adjustable ride height and as I'm light a spring for me is a good idea, at 12 stone you've an advantage in that you're more average weight :)

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 13 March 2012, 10:52:30 am

I know some people like Hagon, but I've had them on 2 of my bikes in the past & didn't rate them. The basic Nitron option is far better IMO & not that much more.

I did indeed have a TRX but the unit is longer - more like 325mm instead of 300. Different length dogbones might allow it to fit, but you'll be a pioneer here as I don't recall anyone trying it before. That's not to say it wont work....esp if you also fitted the TRX shock linkages

TRX unit also has a remote reservoir you'll have to attach somewhere - not impossible but bear it in mind.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: thom_1991 on 13 March 2012, 10:57:47 am

It might be worth ringing round specialists asking about rebuilding your shock with the right spring for you. IIRC brook suspension in Bradfords had some good noises made about his oe rebuilds. New oil and a re-gas (that right?) and it'd feel a marked improvement after 10 years of the oil getting more and more like cappucino...

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 14 March 2012, 09:27:03 am

Here you go, pilfered from the old site:

"Your rear shock can be reconditioned to a point.
Hans at Caledonian Engineering can do it for you
call him on 07917034544.
...don't do it yourself"


I assume this is the guy who can do the Schrader valve conversion, otherwise the standard shock is for the bin.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 14 March 2012, 07:06:14 pm

thanks again everyone,
just a bit of info the max length the shock can be is 300mm.
with the bike on the centerstand i disconnected the bottom shock mount and let the back wheel rest on the ground the aluminium lump that the shock and the dog bones attach to  now moves slightly until it hits on the frame near the center stand. the bottom shock hole and the hole in the aluminium lump are now out of line by about 5mm.- in other words 300mm is about the max shock length without major surgery
god i hope that makes sense  one photo would have covered this so much easier
 

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 15 March 2012, 09:33:14 am

How about a complete TRX850 rear-end conversion? Better (rebuildable) shock with preload, compression & rebound, swingarm looks much nicer, superior rear brake as good as FZS1000 & fazer wheel is identical to TRX rear so a straight fit. I have a swingarm out in the shed, could measure dimensions if it appeals to anyone?

Early Fazer1000 shock is 305mm long....wonder if it could be made to fit as plenty of owners are selling them as they are converting to R6 shocks.
Also I think the newest R6 shocks are 300mm....another option?

Both also rebuildable too, which would be a bonus over the standard 600 unit

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: thom_1991 on 15 March 2012, 10:07:11 am

What he said. Also the Nc30 Nitron shock i got was over 300mm needed a bit cutting off the frame centre stand type area, it really wasn' t too bad a job. Anything with a "piggyback" rather than remote reservoir is ikely to have clearance issues as i looked into a late R6 shock but as already said bear (bare?) in mind with the standard linkage you need a very stiff spring so most shocks from other bikes will be well undersprung.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 15 March 2012, 08:52:40 pm

kebab
yes some measurements please
thom_1991
i agree with you about spring rates, i can only think that Yamaha had to fit such a strong spring as they got there calculations wrong with the linkage so needed a heavy spring to compensate. also the remote reservoir has got to be easier than a piggy back one 

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: Fazbaz on 15 March 2012, 10:05:05 pm

Quote from: kebab19 on 14 March 2012, 09:27:03 am

Here you go, pilfered from the old site:

"Your rear shock can be reconditioned to a point.
Hans at Caledonian Engineering can do it for you
call him on 07917034544.
...don't do it yourself"


I assume this is the guy who can do the Schrader valve conversion, otherwise the standard shock is for the bin.

Hans rebuilt my shock and it's a cracker.... Far better than any Hagon stuff etc. The downside is that he's moved and his phone number is incorrect ( he's also really busy and hasn't had time / bothered  :b to register on the new site) so you'll have trouble contacting him  :(
 
 But his shocks are good and they do carry a 5 year warranty !
 
 Baz  :)

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 16 March 2012, 10:27:11 am

just found this info on the web and have sent an email. so we will see if its the same Guy
 
 
 

Caledonian Engineering[/t][/t] Address:[/t] 15 Glenartney Road Chryston Glasgow Scotland G69 9NS Contact:[/t] Mr Kruger Telephone:[/t] 0141 779 2335 Email:[/t] cal.eng(http://www.motorcyclewebsite.com/at.gif)onmail.co.uk Category:[/t] suspension / wheel building County scope:[/t] scotland

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 16 March 2012, 11:33:27 am

Andy,
TRX850 swingarm details:

spindle area 255mm wide
full length about 575mm
widest point of arm (just before chain adjusters) about 335mm from outer surface to outer surface.

Can post up images or more measurements if required.

If it'll fit the FZS & anyone wants my swingarm for an FZS conversion they can have it for the postage costs. The problem with it is that one of the chain adjuster bolts has snapped off in situ. A decent engineering shop should be able to extract it.
My swingarm has the rear wheel spindle, wheel adjuster blocks and chainguard. Can post a pic if anyone's interested.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: Fazbaz on 16 March 2012, 09:19:53 pm

Quote from: andy352299 on 16 March 2012, 10:27:11 am

just found this info on the web and have sent an email. so we will see if its the same Guy
 
 
 

Caledonian Engineering[/t][/t] Address:[/t] 15 Glenartney Road Chryston Glasgow Scotland G69 9NS Contact:[/t] Mr Kruger Telephone:[/t] 0141 779 2335 Email:[/t] cal.eng([url]http://www.motorcyclewebsite.com/at.gif[/url])onmail.co.uk Category:[/t] suspension / wheel building County scope:[/t] scotland

As per my earlier posting... This is the same bloke BUT he's moved address and his contact numbers aren't the same :(

If you're keen to contact him send me a message and I'll pass on your contact details.

Baz  :)

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 18 March 2012, 06:43:51 pm

thanks Baz you have an email  this is going to be my prefered option at the moment however
Kebab could you take a couple more measurements please
can you measure the width of the swinging arm where it attaches to the frame and also the distance from the centre of the swinging arm pivot point to the centre of the wheel spindle slot to see how it will affect the wheelbase.
 
thanks in advance
 

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: Fazbaz on 18 March 2012, 07:16:56 pm

Andy, you've got a message with his details and also an email if that's easier.

Baz  :)

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: bwizz on 18 March 2012, 08:07:48 pm

The thou shock on my thou works much better than standard 600 unit   and   ride height is the same . just need to swap 600 spring to thou unit .
full details on old site.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: YamFazMan on 19 March 2012, 11:44:16 pm

Revs Racing in West Mids does Fazer shock rebuilds.
ATB YFM

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: YamFazMan on 19 March 2012, 11:48:24 pm

Link to Revs Racing
http://www.revsracing.co.uk/shockrefurbs.php (http://www.revsracing.co.uk/shockrefurbs.php)
ATB YFM
 

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 21 March 2012, 11:08:39 am

Quote from: andy352299 on 18 March 2012, 06:43:51 pm

Kebab could you take a couple more measurements please
can you measure the width of the swinging arm where it attaches to the frame and also the distance from the centre of the swinging arm pivot point to the centre of the wheel spindle slot to see how it will affect the wheelbase.

Width of the TRX swingarm where it attaches to frame is 254 or 255mm.
Center of swingarm pivot point to centre of wheel spindle is adjustable from minimum of 508mm to a maximum of 534mm.

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 21 March 2012, 01:11:18 pm

254-255 is the same as the fazer as far as i can tell without removing the swinging arm, i will check the length later

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 21 March 2012, 05:43:10 pm

centre of fazer swinging arm pivot to centre of wheel spindle slot 540mm

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 21 March 2012, 06:29:43 pm

Hmm, bit disappointing, hoped it woulda been the same  :\ .

If the wheelbase was 15-20mm shorter would it be too radical? Prob'ly wheelie like a turbo hayabusa

How much does a chain stretch over its lifespan anyway?

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: andy352299 on 04 April 2012, 10:26:30 pm

a bit of an update,
i have had the original shock rebuild by a chap called Hans who was recommended to me by Fazbaz,
it took two weeks in total from the time i took it to the post office until i got it back and refitted it.so i cannot complain about that. £70 inc p&p i could have had the spring powder coated any colour i liked for an extra £10 but i did not think it needed it
so the main thing is does it work?
1st impression after a 10 minute ride is yes,   tommorrow i plan to have a ride to a couple of places that have some large dips in the road and see how it feels then.
After that the next plan is to service the forks

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: His Dudeness on 04 April 2012, 11:07:06 pm

what does a rebuild involve?

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: kebab19 on 05 April 2012, 10:49:36 am

Drilling a hole into the top of the shock body and emptying out existing oil.
Welding a schrader valve onto the area that was drilled.
Pressurising the shock through the schrader valve - not sure if it's done through oil only or with gas too.
Eventually the shock will go off but because of the valve it can easily be re-done again and again, in effect allowing a non-rebuildable shock to be used repeatedly.

A very practical and cost effective solution; my only concern would be the legality from an insurance point of view in the event of a payout? F***ers would probably try & weasel out because of 'modified / non-standard suspension parts'.....

Title: Re: rear shock advice please fazer 600 2002
Post by: JoshVaughan on 20 April 2013, 05:32:18 pm

is it possible to put a 2000 model r6 swing arm onto a 2001 fzs 600 fazer?