Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 26 April 2016, 08:33:00 pm
Is it normal or it should be tight.
The screw it's still on the shaft hold by washer
Post by: Fazerider on 26 April 2016, 09:17:12 pm
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=92.0 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=92.0)
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 26 April 2016, 09:27:39 pm
I have ordered bigger nut from yamaha.
Do you think it's safe to run a bije for those couple of days until new nut come?
Post by: Fazerider on 26 April 2016, 09:40:23 pm
Having said that, the early Fazers have a plate screwed to the inside of the sprocket cover which prevents a loose nut from actually falling off the end of the shaft and a lot of us have probably ridden quite a long way with it in that condition without realising.
Post by: His Dudeness on 26 April 2016, 10:28:45 pm
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 26 April 2016, 10:51:29 pm
Post by: darrsi on 27 April 2016, 06:28:02 am
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 27 April 2016, 08:09:35 am
Post by: tommyardin on 27 April 2016, 08:44:10 am
I have straightened out the lock/tab washer 32mm socket with 500mm bar and put all the pressure I can on it, had a mate sit on bike, in gear, brakes on and fucking near burst a blood vessel trying to loosen that bastard to no avail. One of the other foccers in here came up with the solution which I have yet to do, that is ride down to a friendly mechanic pop the sprocket cover off the bike and get him to put his air/impact wrench on it, nip it back up tight by hand ride home and complete the task. I thought KingKong was an American but the cupid stunt worked for Yamaha in the front sprocket nut department when they built my bike.
But what a great bike they are though, great for pottering about in town and great for tear arseing about down country lanes, basically a brilliant all rounder with a nod towards the retro look, I love it.
Post by: tommyardin on 27 April 2016, 09:04:20 am
Although one member in here tack welded the nut on his shagged shaft and has ridden the bike for a number of years like that. (Not ideal though, but a solution as a cheap but practicle workaround)
Good luck Chris keep up posted as to how it pans out :thumbup
Post by: darrsi on 27 April 2016, 10:41:33 am
1988
Okay, i'll meet you half way and we'll call it a 1998.
FAZERSHARP, are you reading this? :pokefun :rollin
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 27 April 2016, 12:31:50 pm
Yep it's 98 typed it wrongly
Post by: fazersharp on 27 April 2016, 12:49:59 pm
Im here ---- before we go to deathcon 51988
Okay, i'll meet you half way and we'll call it a 1998.
FAZERSHARP, are you reading this? :pokefun :rollin
Chrischristopherson could you tell us (me) how many miles your bike has done
Post by: darrsi on 27 April 2016, 12:55:10 pm
Im here ---- before we go to deathcon 51988
Okay, i'll meet you half way and we'll call it a 1998.
FAZERSHARP, are you reading this? :pokefun :rollin
Chrischristopherson could you tell us (me) how many miles your bike has done
What's that gotta do with the price of fish? :lol
Post by: fazersharp on 27 April 2016, 01:12:58 pm
Ok I am waiting for him to say 24k or more in which case the nut will of been off to already replace the sprocket---- meaning it is not a factory fitted un touched nut that has came loose, and therefore still maintaining my pet theory.Im here ---- before we go to deathcon 51988
Okay, i'll meet you half way and we'll call it a 1998.
FAZERSHARP, are you reading this? :pokefun :rollin
Chrischristopherson could you tell us (me) how many miles your bike has done
What's that gotta do with the price of fish? :lol
So chris do you actually know if it has had a new chain and sprocket set in the past
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 27 April 2016, 01:49:39 pm
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 27 April 2016, 01:53:14 pm
I am optimistic
Post by: fazersharp on 27 April 2016, 02:00:57 pm
28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
Post by: fazersharp on 27 April 2016, 02:03:29 pm
for some background info on this banter see here http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,19504.msg225613.html#msg225613 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,19504.msg225613.html#msg225613)
Post by: darrsi on 27 April 2016, 04:46:52 pm
28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
Post by: Fazerider on 27 April 2016, 05:10:44 pm
Here's some competition for the later-bikes-have-an-undersized-shaft theory:
a) the nut was underspecified
b) early Fazers had it glued on with a ridiculously strong threadlock (hence the need for a scaffolding pole extension on the socket to shift it )
c) Yamaha realised they'd made the bond too strong and switched to a different compound on later Fazers which proved to be inadequate
d) when owners/mechanics replaced the sprocket, the thread was contaminated with oil and they didn't use high-strength superglue hence subsequent failures on early bikes
e) Yamaha's instruction to dealers regarding shaft replacement relied on a measurement of the diameter of the threaded portion not because they'd made some too small, but as a means of determining whether the thread had been too badly damaged by the loose nut and/or sprocket.
Post by: fazersharp on 27 April 2016, 05:40:24 pm
You still don't get it do you - its not the nut its the output shaft on 99 onwards.28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
We are yet to find a 98 with an un touched nut that has had the nut come off on its own
Post by: fazersharp on 27 April 2016, 05:44:47 pm
Here's some competition for the later-bikes-have-an-undersized-shaft theory:
a) the nut was underspecified
b) early Fazers had it glued on with a ridiculously strong threadlock (hence the need for a scaffolding pole extension on the socket to shift it )
c) Yamaha realised they'd made the bond too strong and switched to a different compound on later Fazers which proved to be inadequate
d) when owners/mechanics replaced the sprocket, the thread was contaminated with oil and they didn't use high-strength superglue hence subsequent failures on early bikes
e) Yamaha's instruction to dealers regarding shaft replacement relied on a measurement of the diameter of the threaded portion not because they'd made some too small, but as a means of determining whether the thread had been too badly damaged by the loose nut and/or sprocket.
Also my pet theory is that the original 98s shaft was only produced in 1 factory and it was after 98 when production stepped up that other factory's were brought online to produce the shafts which were undersize. So all 98s are ok and thereafter its a game of chance where your shaft was made as to whether or not you have the issue because remember that not all 99 onwards have the issue. And ones yam found out they made sure the shaft spec on new bikes was correct
Post by: tommyardin on 27 April 2016, 06:27:46 pm
I was born in 1947 and my Mrs reckons my shaft is undersized, and my nuts chatter as well. :eek [size=78%] [/size]
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 27 April 2016, 06:48:14 pm
28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
IT'S definetelly old small nut (really rusty) but I can't be sure if it's original
28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
Post by: sinto on 27 April 2016, 08:42:12 pm
Post by: darrsi on 27 April 2016, 08:47:53 pm
You still don't get it do you - its not the nut its the output shaft on 99 onwards.28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
We are yet to find a 98 with an un touched nut that has had the nut come off on its own
Have you tried a museum?
To have a bike 18 years and not use it is just weird.
Post by: fazersharp on 27 April 2016, 09:19:58 pm
Yes that is now becoming an issue - to find 98s still running factory chain and sprockets, but every one we do find backs up my theory.You still don't get it do you - its not the nut its the output shaft on 99 onwards.28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
We are yet to find a 98 with an un touched nut that has had the nut come off on its own
Have you tried a museum?
To have a bike 18 years and not use it is just weird.
Just like this one has
I shall remind you that twas YOU that :pokefun me
Post by: darrsi on 27 April 2016, 10:01:30 pm
Yes that is now becoming an issue - to find 98s still running factory chain and sprockets, but every one we do find backs up my theory.You still don't get it do you - its not the nut its the output shaft on 99 onwards.28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
We are yet to find a 98 with an un touched nut that has had the nut come off on its own
Have you tried a museum?
To have a bike 18 years and not use it is just weird.
Just like this one has
I shall remind you that twas YOU that :pokefun me
Not sure if we can accept "probably"?
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 27 April 2016, 10:18:18 pm
Yes that is now becoming an issue - to find 98s still running factory chain and sprockets, but every one we do find backs up my theory.You still don't get it do you - its not the nut its the output shaft on 99 onwards.28k but the nut it's still there just loose a bit.Ok thank you for the info
It's original nut and sprocket looks as it was changed
Just as I thought 28k and already been replaced
DARRSI. are you reading this? :pokefun (I believe it goes ) :nana
The sprocket may have been replaced, but still the original nut!
Hardly surprising it's done over 24K on an 18 year old bike!
We are yet to find a 98 with an un touched nut that has had the nut come off on its own
Have you tried a museum?
To have a bike 18 years and not use it is just weird.
Just like this one has
I shall remind you that twas YOU that :pokefun me
Chain it's definetelly new.
I have bought new pair of sprocket and 12mm nut.
All coming on Friday so finger crossed I can took of that loose nut and put all as it should be.
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 27 April 2016, 10:19:48 pm
You might be interseted to know, especially fazersharp, I've eventually done my chain and sprockets on my '98 it had covered 28,400 miles and probably original chain and front sprocket not sure of back on as it looked have abused as the front one did.
Will do some picture tomorrow morning but I don't think it's so bad as on the picture
Post by: tommyardin on 27 April 2016, 10:31:57 pm
You might be interseted to know, especially fazersharp, I've eventually done my chain and sprockets on my '98 it had covered 28,400 miles and probably original chain and front sprocket not sure of back on as it looked have abused as the front one did.
FFS Sinto I think you were lucky that the chain had not jumped the sprocket and wiped out the clutch push rod assembly. :eek :fish
Post by: sinto on 27 April 2016, 11:39:40 pm
FFS Sinto I think you were lucky that the chain had not jumped the sprocket and wiped out the clutch push rod assembly. :eek :fish
I know!
I kept putting it off due to one thing or another, knew it needed done but came end of last season I put it away and one thing led to another, work/family issues etc but yes, I'm extremely lucky so it's a lottery ticket at weekend me thinks :)
I think the original Yamaha engineers would be really pleased/interested of how long the original chain and sprocket lasted :lol
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 29 April 2016, 11:43:57 pm
FFS Sinto I think you were lucky that the chain had not jumped the sprocket and wiped out the clutch push rod assembly. :eek :fish
I know!
I kept putting it off due to one thing or another, knew it needed done but came end of last season I put it away and one thing led to another, wirk/family issues etc but yes, I'm extremely lucky so it's a lottery ticket at weekend me thinks :)
Ok so all done new sprocket and nut on place:)
The picture of old sprockets and that small nut attached
(http://)
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 29 April 2016, 11:59:54 pm
tmp 5921 20160429 182907249810580 |
FFS Sinto I think you were lucky that the chain had not jumped the sprocket and wiped out the clutch push rod assembly. :eek :fish
I know!
I kept putting it off due to one thing or another, knew it needed done but came end of last season I put it away and one thing led to another, wirk/family issues etc but yes, I'm extremely lucky so it's a lottery ticket at weekend me thinks :)
Ok so all done new sprocket and nut on place:)
The picture of old sprockets and that small nut attached
(http://)
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 30 April 2016, 12:03:10 am
tmp 5921 20160429 1829291866326807 |
I know!
I kept putting it off due to one thing or another, knew it needed done but came end of last season I put it away and one thing led to another, wirk/family issues etc but yes, I'm extremely lucky so it's a lottery ticket at weekend me thinks :)
Ok so all done new sprocket and nut on place:)
The picture of old sprockets and that small nut attached
(http://)
Post by: Val on 30 April 2016, 08:53:09 am
Two questions. I see on the pictures the rear wheel is almost at the end of the stretching the chain? Not sure from the picture is that the case.
Do you have enough chain slack, it must be 30-40mm. Do you have measured your chain wear? 10 links must be no more than 150mm long. If it is more the chain has been stretched too far and needs change.
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 30 April 2016, 09:26:52 am
Good job that you have changed the nut :thumbup
Two questions. I see on the pictures the rear wheel is almost at the end of the stretching the chain? Not sure from the picture is that the case.
Do you have enough chain slack, it must be 30-40mm. Do you have measured your chain wear? 10 links must be no more than 150mm long. If it is more the chain has been stretched too far and needs change.
Chain slack its ok
IT'S still 2 lines to limit. It's better when I changed sprockets.
I will check that 150mm when have time.
Thanks
Post by: His Dudeness on 30 April 2016, 01:37:09 pm
Post by: darrsi on 30 April 2016, 01:59:43 pm
Might just be the picture but do the threads on that shaft look stripped to anyone? I'd be keeping a close eye on that I think they look pretty worn
What threads? :look
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 30 April 2016, 02:19:49 pm
Might just be the picture but do the threads on that shaft look stripped to anyone? I'd be keeping a close eye on that I think they look pretty worn
Luckily was good as new. Put new bigger nut on it.
It's propobly only picture quality.
Post by: unfazed on 30 April 2016, 03:07:12 pm
Chain slack its ok
IT'S still 2 lines to limit. It's better when I changed sprockets.
I will check that 150mm when have time.
Thanks
The lines are not for the limit of the chain they are only for lining up the rear wheel to ensure it is in straight., :eek
Fazer 600 Chains on standard sprockets are well worn long before the adjustment lines get down too two showing. :rolleyes
Any chain on standard sprockets that far back on the adjusters is a failure waiting to happen. :eek
Ignore the numbers for chain slack, when on the centre stand, Engine off, rotate the wheel until you can feel the tightest section of the chain. Now push the chain up to the swinging arm, it should just touch the rubber protector on the swinging arm without too much force.
If it does not touch the rubber protector the chain is to tight. :thumbup
Post by: tommyardin on 30 April 2016, 06:03:16 pm
Really clean that thread properly (Meth or trichloroethylene) so there in no sigh of any oil, grease or dirt on the shaft thread and the same with the nut (I know is a new nut) as there may be cutting oil on it from where it was factory threaded, use lock tight on the thread and be generous with it, torque setting should factory recommendation 94Kn, but if the thread are as worn as they look in the pics I would be concerned about torquing up that high for fear of stripping the threads off the shaft, bend the new washer over at least two flats of the nut.
someone mentioned Locite superglue in one of the posts but the only problem with that is it may set before the nut is really tight giving a false torque setting.
It seems with all the reading that I have done on the web and in here that it is really really important to get this right otherwise it is a huge expense correcting it if it goes tits up on you.
I hasten to add I am only talking from reading up and not personal experience, as, I have yet to manage to get the fucking nut undone on my :faz .
But I have had a couple of great ideas how to accomplish this from friendly foccers in here.
I have not written the above to be an ogre or someone full of doom and gloom, but a :faz is to nice a bike to be shagged by a stupid loose nut and sprocket.
Best way to find out if a chain is past its sell by date is to compress/push about 10 links together measure it between the centre of two extreme link pins, then stretch it out and measure it again if it is any more that about 8mm/5/16" longer its time to change it, a broken chain will get you off quicker than a 22 year old pole dancer. :lol
Buy yourself a can of chain lube its much cheaper than changing chains and sprockets, I know a lot of guys brush their chains with used engine oil and I sure it lubes the chain fine, but only for as long as it stays on the chain, a quick thrash through the lanes and most of it is on you back wheel rim. I personally like the Motul chain lube is stays dark when dry and sticks like s--t to a blanket, it also means no dirty rear wheel and less chance of an inconvenient broken chain.
And this cat thinks I'm fucking stupid.
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 30 April 2016, 06:12:25 pm
Looking at the photos that Chris has submitted I would be really concerned (unless they are really really poor quality pics) the treads on the shaft look almost non existent as do the threads on the old Nut that is balanced on his knee in the pics (Not that the nut matters as its being replaced) but the shaft really is important, it's a fine thread anyway and it should be torqued up to 94 Km. :eek :eek :eek
Really clean that thread properly (Meth or trichloroethylene) so there in no sigh of any oil, grease or dirt on the shaft thread and the same with the nut (I know is a new nut) as there may be cutting oil on it from where it was factory threaded, use lock tight on the thread and be generous with it, torque setting should factory recommendation 94Kn, but if the thread are as worn as they look in the pics I would be concerned about torquing up that high for fear of stripping the threads off the shaft, bend the new washer over at least two flats of the nut.
someone mentioned Locite superglue in one of the posts but the only problem with that is it may set before the nut is really tight giving a false torque setting.
It seems with all the reading that I have done on the web and in here that it is really really important to get this right otherwise it is a huge expense correcting it if it goes tits up on you.
I hasten to add I am only talking from reading up and not personal experience, as, I have yet to manage to get the fucking nut undone on my :faz .
But I have had a couple of great ideas how to accomplish this from friendly foccers in here.
I have not written the above to be an ogre or someone full of doom and gloom, but a :faz is to nice a bike to be shagged by a stupid loose nut and sprocket.
Best way to find out if a chain is past its sell by date is to compress/push about 10 links together measure it between the centre of two extreme link pins, then stretch it out and measure it again if it is any more that about 8mm/5/16" longer its time to change it, a broken chain will get you off quicker than a 22 year old pole dancer. :lol
Buy yourself a can of chain lube its much cheaper than changing chains and sprockets, I know a lot of guys brush their chains with used engine oil and I sure it lubes the chain fine, but only for as long as it stays on the chain, a quick thrash through the lanes and most of it is on you back wheel rim. I personally like the Motul chain lube is stays dark when dry and sticks like s--t to a blanket, it also means no dirty rear wheel and less chance of an inconvenient broken chain.
And this cat thinks I'm fucking stupid.
Thanks for advise:)
I was suprised as well but the tread on shaft was in very good condition.
Picture wasn't clear enough to see it.
Post by: tommyardin on 30 April 2016, 10:40:22 pm
Post by: tommyardin on 30 April 2016, 11:00:28 pm
The picture of my rear sprocket was lubed with Motul about 300/350 miles ago and the stuff is still on the chain.
Useful tip on checking chain tension from Unfazed, thanks for that mate.
Tight chain will trash rear wheel bearings as well as gear box bearings and Foc up chains and sprockets, and an aside it will certainly lose you power to. :uhuh :moon
I will shut the Foc up now and go to bed :z I'm still thinking about that pole dancer. :evil
Post by: unfazed on 01 May 2016, 12:17:03 am
The torque on the 12mm nut is 90Nm not 94Nm
Post by: tommyardin on 01 May 2016, 12:29:56 am
Post by: fazersharp on 01 May 2016, 12:19:02 pm
Unfazed to the rescue again cheers buddy 90 it is then :thumbup
There was a thread on this some time ago and if I remember right the old thin nut was 70NM and the new fat one 90nm, people were questioning the 90nm as being a bit over the top and in its self risked stripping the thread so as a compermise people went for 80nm
Here found it ---- http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,14924.msg169018.html#msg169018 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,14924.msg169018.html#msg169018)
More (other) nut stuff here
Post by: chrischristopherson1313 on 07 May 2016, 10:02:02 pm
Good job that you have changed the nut :thumbup
Two questions. I see on the pictures the rear wheel is almost at the end of the stretching the chain? Not sure from the picture is that the case.
Do you have enough chain slack, it must be 30-40mm. Do you have measured your chain wear? 10 links must be no more than 150mm long. If it is more the chain has been stretched too far and needs change.
So you were right. 10 links was 200mm long.
I have closely check the chain and was shocked that I didn't see before how worn was it.
All change now. Completly different bike now :)
Post by: sinto on 07 May 2016, 10:36:26 pm
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,17296.210.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,17296.210.html)
Reply #219
Post by: fazersharp on 12 May 2016, 06:57:41 pm
Post by: unfazed on 12 May 2016, 07:27:06 pm
Post by: polecat 1 on 16 May 2016, 10:38:19 am