old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: dickturpin on 01 January 2016, 10:39:48 am
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I know some will sceam in horror...but I understand that some use car oil in their bikes because of the 'rip off' bike oil prices.
With that in mind I have looked at different oils but generally they appear to be suitable for petrol and diesel engines which is a reason not to use and also any oil with 'friction modifiers'
So the question is what brands are you using that don't contain additives or diesel suitability?
HNY everyone!
D
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1000 cc and skimping on oil?
On a car, the last thing I'd skimp on is oil.
With a motorcycle, I add tyres as well.
For a sport, recreation motorcycle, add suspension and brakes to the save a penny, loose a pound list.
This one has sloppy factory suspension, rather cheap tyres, but even there I use fully synthetic motorcycle (marketed) oil. I do always buy on discount, well in advance, but never use cheap oil. JASO MA2 for the clutch and fully synthetic.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuBan5sT8SMcyOwXcCm-TaLKiXqgIfWYoZHJSDLor9ZqLShH-9)
Expensive oils are a ripoff - both for a car and bike, but I have no way of testing an oil. Not a laboratory, nor a test vehicle to run it for 100.000 km and measure wear compared to more expensive oils.
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You don't have to splash out on the mega expensive bike oils, although i refuse to use car oil as i had an issue before with another bike with a slipping clutch.
Just make sure you change it within the recommended mileage limits, and all will be good.
The 600's have a 6000 mile limit, but i tend to change it between 4-5000 miles, but that's just personal choice.
I can't imagine the 1000's being too much different though, if at all.
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:agree
I really don't think it's worth taking the risk of foccing up your clutch for a few quid. I use that motul stuff, It's a little over £20 for 4 litres.
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:agree
I really don't think it's worth taking the risk of foccing up your clutch for a few quid. I use that motul stuff, It's a little over £20 for 4 litres.
:agree
Realistically we are talking £40-50 a year for a medium/high user. You may save a tenner a year on car oil - totally pointless to me.
Like Slaninar, I also add tyres - might be £140 a set for a mediocre set or £200 for a quality set. Add pads to that list aswell. But it's your money....
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I use car oil 10/40w 12 pound for 5 litres :eek for last 5 years on my faze 600 and my Zzr 600 2 years and I been riding for last 28 years know and guess what yes I use car oil on all off my bikes in them years :eek and I never have clutch slip or bike go bang on me yet I must be lucking :rolleyes I think not stick it in ride dame thing happy new year ;)
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It's an interesting debate...I do use quality tyres pr2 or 3 and ebc pads etc etc and I won't risk damaging the bike with the wrong oil but why pay more for the same thing? Are we being fooled by the sales blurb...I tend to think so. The fazer manual doesn't even require semi synth oil bot most tend to use it even though Yamaha don't specify it
I'm just opening the debate....and asking what car oils are being used
D
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What I want to know is at what point does oil become either car oil or bike oil? does it come from different oil wells, don't think so, does it go to different refineries, doubt it, does it have different additives, yes it can have a milage enhancer like PTFE and this could make your clutch slip, does it undergo different testing, yes the grading is different (the letters and numbers) for car and bike oils but it doesn't mean the oil is different.
What we need is the person who puts the labels on the cans of oil to tells us the facts. I know bike engines tend to rev higher than cars do but which has to do the most work, a 1000cc bike at 200Kg plus max of 2 people or a 1400cc car around 1000Kg plus up to 5 (or more) people?
Oh and I use GTX 10/40w semi in my FZ6 which is around £23 but the last lot I bought at £10 for 4 litres at wilco's in a sale and also got some 15/40w for my other bike at half price in 1 litre packs as it takes 5 litres.
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I use halfords 10/40 semi synthetic motorcycle oil in the bike but as I only do about 4000 max a year when I change the bikes oil I keep it and it goes a long way in my diesel car's oil change as its the same spec so I only add 2L of new oil to the car and change it a little bit sooner
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I use vegetable oil in the engine, cotton wool for an air filter, and to save even more money I use elastic bands around the wheel rims :evil
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I use vegetable oil in the engine, cotton wool for an air filter, and to save even more money I use elastic bands around the wheel rims :evil
Sunflower oil is cheaper, belly button fluff more effective and silicone sealant lasts longer :lol
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I use vegetable oil in the engine, cotton wool for an air filter, and to save even more money I use elastic bands around the wheel rims :evil
No need to be ironic. I'm more than interested to know someone used a car oil in a fazer and the engine was fine for 100.000 miles. Really. Wouldn't risk testing it on my engine, but if it's worked, I'd love to know the make and model of the good enough cheap oil! Most of it is a ripoff and marketing, just wouldn't risk it for the price difference.
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No need to be ironic. I'm more than interested to know someone used a car oil in a fazer and the engine was fine for 100.000 miles. Really. Wouldn't risk testing it on my engine, but if it's worked, I'd love to know the make and model of the good enough cheap oil! Most of it is a ripoff and marketing, just wouldn't risk it for the price difference.
I agree...sure its marketing to increase the price if it says
'Bike' on the label
But I also seek reassurance before trying it on my pride and joy!
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Get some of this and be done with it.
As you just said it's your "pride and joy" so i don't understand why you would begrudge it a few extra quid anyway?
I could understand if we were on about brake discs or rear shocks for a price check, but not for 20 odd quid that'll last you 6000 miles.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Advance-AX7-10W-40-Four-Stroke-Motorcycle-4T-10W40-Engine-Oil-4-Litres-4L-/181244295991?hash=item2a33007b37:g:GYgAAOxyyq5TLDrk (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Advance-AX7-10W-40-Four-Stroke-Motorcycle-4T-10W40-Engine-Oil-4-Litres-4L-/181244295991?hash=item2a33007b37:g:GYgAAOxyyq5TLDrk)
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I think more to the point about a rip off is why don't they do a 3 l bottle for bikes and a 5 l bottle for cars
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I think more to the point about a rip off is why don't they do a 3 l bottle for bikes and a 5 l bottle for cars
That's a very good shout, 2.7 litres with a filter change on a 600, and a tad more if you ever need to top up, which i never do anyway.
Here you go, an absolute bargain. :lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Advance-SX2-2T-Motorcycle-Mineral-Engine-Oil-3x1L-3-Litre-/151320211439?hash=item233b632fef:g:xC0AAOxy7nNTT3q- (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Advance-SX2-2T-Motorcycle-Mineral-Engine-Oil-3x1L-3-Litre-/151320211439?hash=item233b632fef:g:xC0AAOxy7nNTT3q-)
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Get some of this and be done with it.
As you just said it's your "pride and joy" so i don't understand why you would begrudge it a few extra quid anyway?
I could understand if we were on about brake discs or rear shocks for a price check, but not for 20 odd quid that'll last you 6000 miles.
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Advance-AX7-10W-40-Four-Stroke-Motorcycle-4T-10W40-Engine-Oil-4-Litres-4L-/181244295991?hash=item2a33007b37:g:GYgAAOxyyq5TLDrk[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Advance-AX7-10W-40-Four-Stroke-Motorcycle-4T-10W40-Engine-Oil-4-Litres-4L-/181244295991?hash=item2a33007b37:g:GYgAAOxyyq5TLDrk[/url])
Thank you for the link....ordered...:)
I would still like to know about the difference...if any....with the car oils.
D
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I've always used wilko 10w40 semi synthetic in my fazer 1000. Change it every 3k with filter change every 6k. £15 for 5 litres
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I just changed my oil last week, Halfords 10/40 semi synthetic bike oil, £28.98 for 4 litres.
I think I need to shop around a bit more!
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To add practical experience to this, I have a 600cc Honda Hornet (so not a fazer) but I have done 47,000 mile using semi synthetic car engine oil, the API standard is better than the quality stated in my Haynes manual. I do not mind sharing this info as I will run the bike till it is passed any resale value, as I have done with all the vehicles I have owned.
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To add practical experience to this, I have a 600cc Honda Hornet (so not a fazer) but I have done 47,000 mile using semi synthetic car engine oil, the API standard is better than the quality stated in my Haynes manual. I do not mind sharing this info as I will run the bike till it is passed any resale value, as I have done with all the vehicles I have owned.
That's what I've done with my vehicles. Seems practical to me. Hate buying and selling.
Anyway, what oil are you using?
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Nowt wrong with halfords oil, think it's more important to change your oil & filter regularly.
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I used car oil in my Divvy for a number of years and so do a lot of people on the Divvy forum. It seems to be ok for that use. I tried Halfords semi synth bike oil when I had a ZZR and it was rubbish, the gear change was definitely worse so I stopped using it. That said I've put a bit in at this oil change because I didn't have quite enough of the Castrol semi synth to fully top it up.
Isn't the difference between car and bike oil down to friction modifiers and their use with a wet clutch? With something low powered like a Divvy it might not matter, with more power through the clutch it might.
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After reading loads of stuff on the net which is mostly years out of date, it seams that the main differance between car and bike oil is the fact that most but not all unit construction bikes use the engine oil to lube the gear box. Pre-unit construction (seperate gearbox and engine sump) and many unit construction bikes from the 1950's onwards used an EP oil (extreme presure) for the gears.
It's the shear effect that breaks the oil down? and shortens the effective life of the oil, now there is the point if with modern semi and synthetic oils if it has any adverse effect if the oil is changed every 6,000 miles.
A few years when I got a new works van the FIRST service was at (from what I can remember) 26,000 miles or one year. A motorbike would be on its 5th service at that rate? if it did that milage.
So should you use bike oil..........YES.........will it make a differance ..........that's up to you?
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A few years when I got a new works van the FIRST service was at (from what I can remember) 26,000 miles or one year. A motorbike would be on its 5th service at that rate? if it did that milage.
Maybe instead of mileage and the oil it would be fairer to compare engine revolutions when comparing cars against bikes
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Good point about the RPM but what about maximum piston speed? most bikes have a short stroke and cars a longer stroke so even though bike engines might be reving twice as fast (not my MT-01 LOL) the max piston speed could be the same and I would think that most of the stresses take place in the cylinders?
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Ok what about total piston distance traveled
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Think everyone agrees bikes are harder on oil than cars and yet they design bike engines so that one oil has to do all the jobs. Seems mad. I wonder why they don't separate the component parts of a bike engine like gearbox, clutch, cylinder and then have an oil for each section? An engine would have to last longer. Maybe that's why they don't do it :lol
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What I want to know is at what point does oil become either car oil or bike oil? does it come from different oil wells, don't think so, does it go to different refineries, doubt it, does it have different additives, yes it can have a milage enhancer like PTFE and this could make your clutch slip, does it undergo different testing, yes the grading is different (the letters and numbers) for car and bike oils but it doesn't mean the oil is different.
What we need is the person who puts the labels on the cans of oil to tells us the facts. I know bike engines tend to rev higher than cars do but which has to do the most work, a 1000cc bike at 200Kg plus max of 2 people or a 1400cc car around 1000Kg plus up to 5 (or more) people?
Oh and I use GTX 10/40w semi in my FZ6 which is around £23 but the last lot I bought at £10 for 4 litres at wilco's in a sale and also got some 15/40w for my other bike at half price in 1 litre packs as it takes 5 litres.
you can get 20L drums with proper semi synth Silkolene Super 4 10W-40 for about £90, so paying £23 for 4L car oil is no saving at all? 4L Silkolene proper motorcycle oil cost the same:
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-846-silkolene-super-4-10w-40-semi-synthetic-4-stroke-motorbike-oil.aspx (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-846-silkolene-super-4-10w-40-semi-synthetic-4-stroke-motorbike-oil.aspx)
This article explains the differences with exact details about the exact oil content in car and motorcycle oils:
http://www.sportrider.com/oils-well-ends-well-part-2 (http://www.sportrider.com/oils-well-ends-well-part-2)
Long story short some car oils may be better than some motorcycle oils and vice versa. Good oils have the same ingredients. The only problem in some good car oils is the additives that make possible oil changes for say 10 000 miles - these are not good in motorcycle and may foc up your clutch.
Think everyone agrees bikes are harder on oil than cars and yet they design bike engines so that one oil has to do all the jobs. Seems mad. I wonder why they don't separate the component parts of a bike engine like gearbox, clutch, cylinder and then have an oil for each section? An engine would have to last longer. Maybe that's why they don't do it :lol
If you look at the article above about the content of different components in oil - there is no difference between some good car oils and good motorcycle oils. Means you can use any if it is good. Emphasis is on good :)
INB4 good car oils are also expensive even more expensive than good motorcycle oil.
The whole debate point is wrong. There are no excellent car oils that are cheaper than motorcycle oils. There are good oils priced accordingly :lol
The price difference between crappy oil and good oil is about £10 for one oil change. The awfull cranking sound of your engine running on crappy oil - priceless.
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Yep always used and always will use car oil in my bikes, been riding 36 years and no issues on normal road bikes with clutch slip, funny I posted a a similar thread on Practical sportsbikes Face book page, it got quite heated at one point, I think one of the staff writers spat his dummy out at me because I did not use 'motorcycle specific oil'. Each to there own, a lot of people do what the sales blurb says :'( Oil is Oil.
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And on the point of cost - brent crude is now £35 (or should that be $ ) I know our bike oil is treated etc but should we be seeing the price of 4ltrs come down like we see petrol come down in price
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It really is not advisable to use ordinary engine oil in your bike, most modern car oil has additive like molybdenum and other additives these act as extra lubricants and will eventually cause wet clutches to slip.
You might be lucky cleaning the clutch plates out after you have given the engine a complete flush out, but more often than not they will need replacing as they get a burnt on shellac like substance caused by the slippage.
Best spend a tenner more on some quality oil and save yourself a fortune and a lot of hassle, plus down time for the bike.
I personally use Shell Advance and found it to be reliable and it some how stays cleaner than other oils I have used, also it has no additives what so ever so completely detergent free.
Keep the shiny side up and the greasy side down.
Tom
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Dangerous to aquatic life !
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Garages at Tesco Extras have got Castrol 10/40 Racing fully synthetic on special offer at £6 for a litre bottle at the moment. Whereas the semi is £10.
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I don't understand why anyone would begrudge paying £25-£40 on bike oil to go on a 6000 mile journey?
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Darrsi Sounds like a good move to me mate.
Good quality Oil on eBay £27-50 and they will even bring it to you front door for nothing.
Shell Advance Ultra 4T 10W-40 Fully Synthetic Motorcycle Oil 10W40 4 Litres 4L (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Advance-Ultra-4T-10W-40-Fully-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-10W40-4-Litres-4L-/181170151008?hash=item2a2e951e60:g:d78AAOxykmZTLDwE)[/color]£27.50
RRP £43.10[/font][/color][/size]
(£6.88/L)[/size]- [/color][color=rgb(51, 51, 51) !important]Free Postage[/color]
990 sold- [/color]
[/font][/size]
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Hey Fazersharp!
If you rub them in it, it will waterproof them and when you take them out of the tank to play with them the water runs off the instantly, but what I like the most is if you squeeze them really hard you can get them to shoot from one side of the room to the other, they love it :rollin :lol [size=78%] [/size]
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Hey Fazersharp!
If you rub them in it, it will waterproof them and when you take them out of the tank to play with them the water runs off the instantly, but what I like the most is if you squeeze them really hard you can get them to shoot from one side of the room to the other, they love it :rollin :lol
:thumbup
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Hey Fazersharp!
If you rub them in it, it will waterproof them and when you take them out of the tank to play with them the water runs off the instantly, but what I like the most is if you squeeze them really hard you can get them to shoot from one side of the room to the other, they love it :rollin :lol
Love your pets - they will tell no one! :)