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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Bretty on 29 December 2015, 01:43:15 pm

Title: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Bretty on 29 December 2015, 01:43:15 pm
My rear brake seizes every winter, but frees up with use. I should have serviced it ages ago, but finally took it off today.

One piston moves with force, the other is stuck. I could probably free things up with penetrating oil, a soak and a clean but am I wasting my time?

Is it a case of "new seals, it'll be fine" or "bin it and get a new one"?

I would obviously prefer to fix it on the cheap, but is it a false economy?

Cheers,

Brett
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: celticdog on 29 December 2015, 01:50:54 pm


I would obviously prefer to fix it on the cheap, but is it a false economy?

Cheers,

Brett


I'd have a go at fixing it, if you don't have any luck then you can always source a new one.


Nice little renovation project . . . Can you get access to a bead/shot blaster? I think it'd come up lovely  ;) 
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Bretty on 29 December 2015, 02:13:09 pm
I hate to say it, but my bike lives on the street in London. So my whole ethos is, it must function safely (engine, brakes, tyres) but look like junk in order to not draw attention to itself and/or get stolen.

So I'm not fussed what it looks like, but will it work?

I'm going to go and reattach it to the brake lines to see if I can force the pistons out for inspection...
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Gnasher on 29 December 2015, 02:18:33 pm
From what you've posted it needs some TLC just a rebuild should do the trick.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Deefer666 on 29 December 2015, 02:31:11 pm
It depends, I have had a few lately that as you clean them up the corrosion has eaten away at the
lip that holds the dust seal inon the inside piston. I would say that you need to get the pistons out, clean it up and then check the caliper body. If its all still good then rebuild it.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Paulfzs on 29 December 2015, 03:29:55 pm
£60: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-1998-2003-rear-brake-caliper-seal-repair-kit-pistons-/181539177349 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-1998-2003-rear-brake-caliper-seal-repair-kit-pistons-/181539177349)


Or £55 for the thou caliper: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-2003-YAMAHA-FZS1000-FZS1-FZS-1-FZ-1-CALIPER-REAR-BRAKE-6767-/351610724966?hash=item51dda1e266:g:wcgAAOSwSdZWeeo0 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-2003-YAMAHA-FZS1000-FZS1-FZS-1-FZ-1-CALIPER-REAR-BRAKE-6767-/351610724966?hash=item51dda1e266:g:wcgAAOSwSdZWeeo0)
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: sinto on 29 December 2015, 04:18:48 pm
You can also split it to have a better look at it and makes working with it easier.
There's a post or two about it in here somewhere, I know as I done it and so did joebloggs :)
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Bretty on 29 December 2015, 04:39:35 pm
Well I couldn't push the pistons out, as there is now air in the brake line. I probably should have bled it and persevered, but instead have split the caliper.
The outer seals look knackered for sure, and pistons are pretty corroded on the inside. I have no idea how to get the pistons out now, but for the cost of new pistons and seals I might as well hunt for a half decent secondhand caliper....
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: sinto on 29 December 2015, 04:44:13 pm
I have no idea how to get the pistons out now,

If you've got an air compressor, join your two bits of calipers together again and blow them out :)
Make sure they're connected or you'll do more than "blow the bloody doors off" :b
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: sinto on 29 December 2015, 04:47:21 pm
Make sure they're connected or you'll do more than "blow the bloody doors off" :b

Mind you that could make ano interesting thread :lol
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: His Dudeness on 29 December 2015, 06:10:11 pm
I'd reattach the caliper, bleed it and clamp the piston that's moving and then pump the stuck one out a bit, then clamp it and pump the moving one out a bit and keep alternating the clamp until both pistons are out. You have to pump them out evenly or one will get stuck. Then as deefer says clean and inspect the seal recess and decide if new seals will work. I'd buy Yamaha seals, after market seals can be a bit hit and miss.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: unfazed on 29 December 2015, 06:29:32 pm
The problem with these calipers is that the small drain holes at the bottom get blocked and all the salt and crap from the roads get stuck inside the caliper. It soaks past the dust seal and corrodes the seal housing (as Deefer66 already stated).
The reason Fzs1000 option works well is: the pistons are the same diameter no need to change the master cylinder (both fzs1000 and 600 rear master cylinders are identical) and there is no well to hold the road crap because the pads are inserted from the under side of the caliper.

I would cut your losses and get a fzs1000 replacement. Judging by the level of corrosion on your caliper and the fact one piston is stuck, the seal seat damage may already be a factor.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: red98 on 29 December 2015, 07:06:35 pm
I'd reattach the caliper, bleed it and clamp the piston that's moving and then pump the stuck one out a bit, then clamp it and pump the moving one out a bit and keep alternating the clamp until both pistons are out. You have to pump them out evenly or one will get stuck. Then as deefer says clean and inspect the seal recess and decide if new seals will work. I'd buy Yamaha seals, after market seals can be a bit hit and miss.





 :agree   well said dude....I have a couple of rear calipers with sheered nipples...if you replace I would be interested in your old one....or.....the other way round ?
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Deefer666 on 30 December 2015, 10:40:47 am
I have no idea how to get the pistons out now,

If you've got an air compressor, join your two bits of calipers together again and blow them out :)
Make sure they're connected or you'll do more than "blow the bloody doors off" :b

I have a blow gun that I have adapted with a Banjo bolt, so that the body of the gun screws into the caliper. Compressed air normally gets the pistons out. Also I find a bit of heat helps if they are being stubborn... The seals are fucked anyway so a blow torch wouldn't hurt anything so long as you don't go mental and melt the o-ring seal between parts of the caliper.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Bretty on 30 December 2015, 01:52:45 pm
To answer my own question. No... no it's not salvageable. Both seals seem to have extruded out the gap bringing bits of the casing with them.

I thought it was a bit sticky.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Deefer666 on 30 December 2015, 02:05:45 pm
Yup, That's fucked
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: joebloggs on 30 December 2015, 03:49:00 pm
I have no idea how to get the pistons out now,

If you've got an air compressor, join your two bits of calipers together again and blow them out :)
Make sure they're connected or you'll do more than "blow the bloody doors off" :b

I have a blow gun that I have adapted with a Banjo bolt, so that the body of the gun screws into the caliper. Compressed air normally gets the pistons out. Also I find a bit of heat helps if they are being stubborn... The seals are fucked anyway so a blow torch wouldn't hurt anything so long as you don't go mental and melt the o-ring seal between parts of the caliper.

I've used a grease gun on the bleed nipple to ease them out in the past, OK so you need to give them a good clean after but I prefer the grease method as you not have pistons flying past your ears when they finally pop free
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: unfazed on 30 December 2015, 07:44:10 pm
Yup, That's fucked

Understatement of the year  :lol :lol
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Gnasher on 30 December 2015, 10:28:57 pm
Thats got to be the almost the worst I've seen :eek they didn't look like that in the first post  :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: celticdog on 31 December 2015, 09:39:52 am
£60: [url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-1998-2003-rear-brake-caliper-seal-repair-kit-pistons-/181539177349[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-1998-2003-rear-brake-caliper-seal-repair-kit-pistons-/181539177349[/url])


Or £55 for the thou caliper: [url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-2003-YAMAHA-FZS1000-FZS1-FZS-1-FZ-1-CALIPER-REAR-BRAKE-6767-/351610724966?hash=item51dda1e266:g:wcgAAOSwSdZWeeo0[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-2003-YAMAHA-FZS1000-FZS1-FZS-1-FZ-1-CALIPER-REAR-BRAKE-6767-/351610724966?hash=item51dda1e266:g:wcgAAOSwSdZWeeo0[/url])



Plan b it is then!
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Deefer666 on 31 December 2015, 10:23:01 am
Put the flat shock spanner that comes in the standard tool kit in the middle of the caliper, when the pistons pop out under air pressure they cannot come all the way out that way

I have no idea how to get the pistons out now,

If you've got an air compressor, join your two bits of calipers together again and blow them out :)
Make sure they're connected or you'll do more than "blow the bloody doors off" :b

I have a blow gun that I have adapted with a Banjo bolt, so that the body of the gun screws into the caliper. Compressed air normally gets the pistons out. Also I find a bit of heat helps if they are being stubborn... The seals are fucked anyway so a blow torch wouldn't hurt anything so long as you don't go mental and melt the o-ring seal between parts of the caliper.

I've used a grease gun on the bleed nipple to ease them out in the past, OK so you need to give them a good clean after but I prefer the grease method as you not have pistons flying past your ears when they finally pop free
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: darrsi on 31 December 2015, 12:20:03 pm
£60: [url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-1998-2003-rear-brake-caliper-seal-repair-kit-pistons-/181539177349[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-1998-2003-rear-brake-caliper-seal-repair-kit-pistons-/181539177349[/url])


Or £55 for the thou caliper: [url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-2003-YAMAHA-FZS1000-FZS1-FZS-1-FZ-1-CALIPER-REAR-BRAKE-6767-/351610724966?hash=item51dda1e266:g:wcgAAOSwSdZWeeo0[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-2003-YAMAHA-FZS1000-FZS1-FZS-1-FZ-1-CALIPER-REAR-BRAKE-6767-/351610724966?hash=item51dda1e266:g:wcgAAOSwSdZWeeo0[/url])



Plan b it is then!



That 2nd caliper was £65 not £55, plus would they not sting you for tax as well as it's from the states?
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Bretty on 31 December 2015, 09:14:33 pm
Do you pay import duty on 2ndhand stuff?

Anyway UPDATE: I bought a secondhand caliper on ebay and collected it yesterday. It also had knackered seals, but the case was good and it was only £30.

Got it home realises it was seized.. FFS! Spent an hour or so faffing about with it trying to get the pistons out.

I used the 'new' case and a combination of all the best remaining parts to make one good caliper (minus the dust seals) all cleaned up on the bike and working.
I have some new seals on order so when they arrive, unless the existing seals are leaking, I might just fit the dust seals, although the dust seal recess has seen better days!

Brett
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Jules-C on 01 January 2016, 12:09:46 pm
They metal at the edge of the dust seals on mine was starting to corrode and the dust seals trying to squeeze out siezing the pistons on mine so rebuilt it without dust seals a couple of years ago as a temporary measure to get it through MOT.  Got a eBay caliper to rebuild but it was as bad as my one so never rebuilt it.  Had no problems running without dust seals and just clean it once a year
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: darrsi on 01 January 2016, 01:09:20 pm
It would appear so!



Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: His Dudeness on 01 January 2016, 02:00:01 pm
They metal at the edge of the dust seals on mine was starting to corrode and the dust seals trying to squeeze out siezing the pistons on mine so rebuilt it without dust seals a couple of years ago as a temporary measure to get it through MOT.  Got a eBay caliper to rebuild but it was as bad as my one so never rebuilt it.  Had no problems running without dust seals and just clean it once a year

Are ya mad? It's your brakes. Get a good caliper.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: Deefer666 on 01 January 2016, 07:01:50 pm
I have in the past (on my own bikes) run a rear brake with no dust seals in but only as a temporary measure. If the main seal is in good condition it is not a problem..... I wouldn't do it on a front brake but on a rear as a stopgap measure its not a problem.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: His Dudeness on 01 January 2016, 08:02:09 pm
I have in the past (on my own bikes) run a rear brake with no dust seals in but only as a temporary measure. If the main seal is in good condition it is not a problem..... I wouldn't do it on a front brake but on a rear as a stopgap measure its not a problem.

So have I for a couple of days to get back on the road while waiting for new seals but riding around for a year banananananannas
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: sinto on 01 January 2016, 08:17:04 pm
Do you pay import duty on 2ndhand stuff?

Brett

This thread http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,18913.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,18913.0.html) will help you figure it out :)
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: joebloggs on 01 January 2016, 10:25:24 pm
I hope I'm not tempting fate here but I ordered a pair of discs from the states (second hand) and they tried to deliver them the other day but I was out, I've recieved no bill from the tax man or information on how to pay the dreaded, so I'm hoping it all depends on how the seller packages the items or the value he/she stated the parcel was worth (mine was above the threshold so was expecting to pay before they would deliver)


Fingers crossed
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: darrsi on 02 January 2016, 11:05:39 am
A friend of my mum's got sent a text the other day saying she owes £20 tax for a parcel that was delivered to her, with a website address where she could pay the excess.
Only thing is, she hadn't ordered anything or received any packages.
I checked out the tracking code for her and it all looked legit, and had been signed for by a bloke the previous day.
Dunno if someone's made a mistake with her number, or it's deliberate or not.
But there are different ways of paying if needed, although i don't know what would happen if you've already received the goods and then don't pay?
I had to go to the Post Office and pay the tax before they released an item i bought. They normally send the item back if you don't collect within 3 weeks.
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: joebloggs on 02 January 2016, 07:59:48 pm
Had two focin great discs delivered today, looks like they'll stop a truck, no charge yet, and as you said darrsi, I was expecting to pay before they released the items.

A pair of Ferodo 320mm discs for £60 delivered from the US, bit of a bargin me thinks
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: RMT1983 on 06 January 2016, 12:53:59 am
got this for sale if any good? need 1 'R' clip and a new plate for it..........
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: tommyardin on 07 January 2016, 01:09:28 am
If you use an airline to blow out pistons on calipers FFS put a piece of wood between the pistons to stop them flying right out once they make the initial move, what you are creating is an air rifle with two F-----g great pellets, make your eyes water to say the least.
lol 
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: joebloggs on 07 January 2016, 07:08:33 pm
You also need to make sure they both come out at the same time, if ones free its obviously going to pop out before the seized piston
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: tommyardin on 07 January 2016, 11:11:54 pm
Good point, then you would be f----- for sure
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: joebloggs on 08 January 2016, 06:48:08 am
Good point, then you would be f----- for sure

This is why I prefer the grease gun method, far slower, you can see which piston is seized/free or less seized before you pass the point of no return
Title: Re: is this rear caliper salvageable?
Post by: sinto on 08 January 2016, 08:10:13 am
Going back to original post :)
My rear brake seizes every winter, but frees up with use. I should have serviced it ages ago, but finally took it off today.

One piston moves with force, the other is stuck. I could probably free things up with penetrating oil, a soak and a clean but am I wasting my time?

Is it a case of "new seals, it'll be fine" or "bin it and get a new one"?

I would obviously prefer to fix it on the cheap, but is it a false economy?

Cheers,

Brett
You'd be as well just throwing this set in the bin :b