old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: BBROWN1664 on 23 July 2015, 05:10:33 pm
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Is it just me that thinks the migrants storming the tunnel should be shot as a deterrent to others?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33637756 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33637756)
Perhaps if the French started sending them back to Italy or Belgium and the EU started enforcing things better we wouldn't be having these problems. What with the strikes by MyFerry the other week, the militant (unemployed now) workers again blockading the port this week, how the fec are we meant to go on holiday and boost an otherwise ailing French economy if the French government wont stand up and do something about it.
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Was watching an episode of Ross Kemp's Extreme World about the problems in Calais and I never realised how bad the situation is in that area.
People were doing absolutely anything to get here though, they weren't interested in anywhere else.
The French are trying not to encourage them by not giving them any help at all, so they have even more reason to take any risk whatsoever to make it over here.
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I came back through Calais at Easter. Approaching on the Autoroute from Belgium, loads of trucks were very slow and as I came up the outside at about 50mph, I saw why there were loads of - presumably North/Horn Africans - all over the motorway. Very dangerous. I actually went into Calais centre-ville to get some food, which was a masterstroke, as the entrance to the port from the A16 was tailed back out of the port, but the local road that I on was clear and it fed me and a camper straight into the controls.
I understand that some migrants want to come to the UK due to English being their first language, but it seems apparent that many believe - aided and abetted by traffickers - that the UK is a land of milk-and-honey. The Schengen zone has led to unprecendented free movement and pressures. Hungary is erecting border fencing, the last time I crossed into Italy from Switzerland (on a minor-ish crossing) there were checks in place and France has put controls back in at Menton.
I'm off to wherever next week, but i'm considering Portsmouth-Cherbourg (sodding rip-off cost wise), as Dover-Calais looks painful and Dover-Dunkirk/Folkestone-Coquelles not much better.
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I looked at Portsmouth crossings for next week but got 5x return trips on euro tunnel for not a lot more than a single return trip via Portsmouth
with myself and the Mrs each going out via folkestone next week I hope the M40 gets cleared soon. Going via Ashford is a nightmare and going the long way round via Dover or Canterbury will probably add a significant amount of time too.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3172042/Astonishing-aerial-images-Calais-migrant-camp-sprawled-size-small-town-home-5-000-refugees-farm-mosque-shop.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3172042/Astonishing-aerial-images-Calais-migrant-camp-sprawled-size-small-town-home-5-000-refugees-farm-mosque-shop.html)
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Some Napalm needs testing there.
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Some Napalm needs testing there.
+1. Or a Pitbull training ground.
We all know they want the UK benefit system, and whilst there's free movement within Euro, buuuuut don't they start out as fecking asylum seekers? With asylum defined as the first place/country of safety..........not head for the UK :grumble
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I spoke to one a couple of weeks ago in Calais. He was from Sudan, he had landed in Italy but didn't want to stay there because the locals didn't like immigrants and he could get beaten up, oh and the language was too difficult. I asked him why he didnt want to stay in the South of France (its lovely for focs sake) as he had come through there, he gave the same answer, the people and the language. So I told him that the English don't like illegal immigrants either but he clearly didn't believe me, so I asked why he wanted to get to the UK, and he replied, because it is a good country, he didn't mention benefits, just that it was a good country. So I asked him who he thought paid for the immigrants who got through, he genuinely believed that it was the US and the UN who footed the bill. He said that he wanted to get to the UK then go on to Canada, when I asked him how he was going to get there he didn't know, I think he thought that there was as much traffic between the UK and Canada as there was between the UK and France. It seems to me that these guys believe that we can afford it and we don't mind having them over here.
Oh and one more thing, he got out of Italy on a train, with a ticket which was given to him by officials just to move him on to France. A £50 train fare and the problem is gone, shame we cant do that, but it wouldn't work anyway would it? Why leave when you are going to get everything for free?
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The worst part about it is that nobody actually likes us, but they all want to live with us, and turn the UK into the shit country that they just left.
It's mindbending stuff. :rolleyes
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Reckon we could borrow the Australian government for a while to sort this shit out cos ours just don't have any balls. Average Joe has been bitching about this for 10yrs or more - Government still thinking about the best PC approach without affecting their human rights ffs.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!
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Reckon we could borrow the Australian government for a while to sort this shit out cos ours just don't have any balls. Average Joe has been bitching about this for 10yrs or more - Government still thinking about the best PC approach without affecting their human rights ffs.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!
The fact that we are even discussing this will have us labelled as fascists.....
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Is it just me that thinks the migrants storming the tunnel should be shot as a deterrent to others?
I guess why not.
I mean, I guess seeing as we have slaughtered 100,000's in Afghanistan and Iraq, that we have been arming the battle in Syria and that our allies fund ISIS, I mean what's a few more bodies?
I mean we bomb wedding parties, so why not shoot a few refugees at Dover? Nothing but sand niggers - what?
Hey I mean we might have created a few million refugees but what gives the dirty bastards the right to come over here!
Some Napalm needs testing there.
Pour it over yer heid and try a match you stupid dumb foccer
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:lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk :lurk
I don't think I've got enough popcorn! :lol
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It really offends me how much popcorn you have Nick you fat Foccer :lol
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Since VNA seems so keen on the illegal immigrants we should send them all to Scotland , problem solved.
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Since VNA seems so keen on the illegal immigrants we should send them all to Scotland , problem solved.
So back to the Italian idea of a £50 train ticket.....like it :lol
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Since VNA seems so keen on the illegal immigrants we should send them all to Scotland , problem solved.
So back to the Italian idea of a £50 train ticket.....like it :lol
:think Yes, yes, of course we want you to have independence, sign here... :deal :lol
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Did you know that to get a job on the IOM it is only possible if a local person cannot fill the position(unless they have changed the law since I worked for a shipping recruitment company there way back in the 80's) Also as soon as you became unemployed and needed to sign on the dole, they gave you a boat/air ticket and told you to feck off back to were you came from.
Seeing as VNA blames us for all the wrongs in the world to make amends when we get a load of these (sand Niggers) VNA's words ship them up to under populated areas of Scotland. Might as well as no other fecker wants to live there.
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I'm an IT engineer. Working part time in a bicycle repair shop. I get some 2 euros per hour. Why is my hour less valuable than a UK worker's one? Because I was born outside UK, or EU for that matter.
Sanctions, even NATO bombarding my country, etc.
Did I get any saying into my, or any other country's policy? Nope. You get to vote once in 4 years between 2 equally corrupt politicians.
Situation in Africa is even worse. Those people are looking for living, survival. They go through ordeal and take lots of sacrifice to get to EU. They are the same as people anywhere else. Poor, desperate, but basically the same. Imagine how desperate a man must be to go from a land of sunshine, all the way to, no less, than bloody England?! :)
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Sorry, almost forgot, I asked the feller if he had any skills he could use to make a life in the UK, he didn't understand so I explained and he just said no, then thought for a second and said, Im a Barber! I may have been heard to say, we've got enough of them! The conversation came to a natural end at this point, and I went back inside the pub to drink my pint and shake my head in despair of this situation.
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I'm an IT engineer. Working part time in a bicycle repair shop. I get some 2 euros per hour. Why is my hour less valuable than a UK worker's one? Because I was born outside UK, or EU for that matter.
Sanctions, even NATO bombarding my country, etc.
Did I get any saying into my, or any other country's policy? Nope. You get to vote once in 4 years between 2 equally corrupt politicians.
Situation in Africa is even worse. Those people are looking for living, survival. They go through ordeal and take lots of sacrifice to get to EU. They are the same as people anywhere else. Poor, desperate, but basically the same. Imagine how desperate a man must be to go from a land of sunshine, all the way to, no less, than bloody England?! :)
So are you saying you were all better of as a British colony then
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So are you saying you were all better of as a British colony then
My country was a lot better of as a part of Socialist Federation of Yugoslavia. Before we got democracy. Free education, medical care, lots of jobs, etc.
However, that is not the point. The point is that 80% of world's population lives in poor condition. Some 2% of the richest hold 90% of the total resources. Then there's a rather small amount of people still living in somewhat decent conditions, feeling threatened by an influx of immigrants. Germany, UK, Italy...
It takes a lot to leave one's family, home and go live abroad. It's a hard life, being a stranger all your life. People don't do it unless they have to. Do I deserve a decent life more than some African man? Just because I was born 1000 miles to the north? I don't think so.
What we need, IMO on a global scale is German engineers, British police officers and Italian chefs. No excuses, no choice. A fascist regime. :)
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I'm an IT engineer. Working part time in a bicycle repair shop. I get some 2 euros per hour. Why is my hour less valuable than a UK worker's one? Because I was born outside UK, or EU for that matter.
Sanctions, even NATO bombarding my country, etc.
Did I get any saying into my, or any other country's policy? Nope. You get to vote once in 4 years between 2 equally corrupt politicians.
Situation in Africa is even worse. Those people are looking for living, survival. They go through ordeal and take lots of sacrifice to get to EU. They are the same as people anywhere else. Poor, desperate, but basically the same. Imagine how desperate a man must be to go from a land of sunshine, all the way to, no less, than bloody England?! :)
When was Band Aid?
1984.
Yet the poor kids we saw suffering and enduring hell have since had their own kids and shown them on telly in adverts echoing exactly the same circumstances and suffering that they endured THIRTY ONE YEARS later.
Partly their fault, and probably even more to do with crazy despot leaders with zero conscience who honestly don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Here's a perfect example of how skint Africa is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3169433/Lionel-Messi-accused-receiving-2-4m-lay-stone-2017-Africa-Cup-Nations-stadium-Gabon-guest-controversial-president-Ali-Bongo.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3169433/Lionel-Messi-accused-receiving-2-4m-lay-stone-2017-Africa-Cup-Nations-stadium-Gabon-guest-controversial-president-Ali-Bongo.html)
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Darrsi - are you being so bold as to suggest that the vast majority of overseas aid is syphoned off by governments, armed forces and local police etc with probably 5% max reaching those in need :eek.
And that if it were not syphoned off by corruption they wouldn't have to ponce off us..
You sir are a cad :lol
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Darrsi - are you being so bold as to suggest that the vast majority of overseas aid is syphoned off by governments, armed forces and local police etc with probably 5% max reaching those in need :eek .
And that if it were not syphoned off by corruption they wouldn't have to ponce off us..
You sir are a cad :lol
5% sounds quite genorous, i doubt it's that much.
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Darrsi - are you being so bold as to suggest that the vast majority of overseas aid is syphoned off by governments, armed forces and local police etc with probably 5% max reaching those in need :eek .
And that if it were not syphoned off by corruption they wouldn't have to ponce off us..
You sir are a cad :lol
5% sounds quite genorous, i doubt it's that much.
A load of dogooders seem to like underwriting corrupt leaders and over-paid bosses of NGOs and we're expected to swallow it hooklinesinker.
OT: sounds awful around Kent, even coming out of Folkestone is now gridlocked apparently. Wondering if things will change in the next few days.
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why not shoot a few refugees at Dover?
You missed the point entirely VNA (as seems normal)
I meant to shoot them whilst they are still in France :pokefun
Real refugees I don't have an issue with. The ones I have an issue with are the ones that cross several safe countries to get to the UK because it is seen as the place where they will live the life of luxury with someone else paying for their houses etc. A refugee is meant to stop in the first safe place and claim asylum. These people are economic migrants, not refugees. England is struggling to cope with the ones we have already. France (and other European countries) just help them move on to the UK and do no thing to really stop them trying to get to the UK.
In the past 3 months, channel crossings have been affected between Dover and Calais on 1 out of every 3 days due to two things.
First are the MyFerry workers who got a strop on because Eurotunnel (their owners) were told to cease operations to help avoid them having a monopoly. The result of this was that MyFerry sold two of the ships to DFDS who, sensibly or not, decided they wanted cheap Asian labour running their boats rather than the militant French ferry workers.
Second are the economic migrants who are storming the tunnel and Calais port on a daily basis. All the French are doing is telling the UK to do more. WTF? The French let these people into their country. They let the same people set up camp alongside the port. They let the same people climb in to lorries waiting to get into the port. They don't sent them back to Italy or wherever they arrived from. They let them go again to try again.
I like France as a country. I generally like the people. I like it enough to have bought a house there which I want to go to soon. With the current disruption on getting across there though for the reasons mentioned above, the holidays of thousands of people are being affected.
So yes, I do want to see positive action taken against the migrants as they nothing but a feccin nuisance and should be jailed for a lot of the things they are doing at the moment. A few snipers waiting in the tunnels for someone to poke their head in might prevent people trying though.
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the holidays of thousands of people are being affected.
I know it's terrible. These scum bags fleeing our wars and neocon exploitative so called free market politics are disrupting people's holidays! It's outrageous.
So yes, I do want to see positive action taken against the migrants as they nothing but a feccin nuisance and should be jailed for a lot of the things they are doing at the moment.
Oh diddums! Why don't you fire up the gas ovens.
probably even more to do with crazy despot leaders with zero conscience who honestly don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Yup every dodgy leader round the globe is usually propped up and encouraged by the west or Russia. And having crazy despot leaders means we can sell em loads of arms that they either don't need or shouldn't have.
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bbrown, buy a caravan I wales you can go every week, without all the hassle lol. :lol
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Taylor. We have a tin box on wheels. We keep it in France for when we have guests starting with us. As soon as I get the building work done though the mobile shed will be sold.
I have been to Wales a lot. Apart from on rugby tour weekend, I have only ever been on business. I don't want to go there unless someone pays me to : pokefun
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its pissing it down here today :'(
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I must have been to Wales 50 times over the years. Only twice it didn't rain. One if those two occasions it was snowing
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As someone said above, these people in and around Calais are NOT refugees now, they WERE refugees fleeing in fear of their lives when they landed in Italy (or wherever), but because they never registered as refugees in Italy and continued up to Calais, they are now economic migrants from outside the EU and therefore we should be able to send them back to the country they were last officially living. So, fit out a boat and drop them off in North Africa. Probably quite expensive, but not as expensive as supporting them in this country. Or we could just load them into the Eurotunnel trains and drop them off in Calais.
I do feel sorry for them, but if what they say is true and they are genuinely in fear of their lives in their own country, they should have registered in the first country they arrived in because they were no longer in danger.
I get the feeling they (and the rest of the EU) are just taking the piss out of us because of the bleeding hearts, overly PC, wishy washy liberal attitude which our Government seems to have to adopt to keep the small number of pressure groups (in relation to the general population) happy, in an attempt to keep their votes.
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Slag off the UK etc all you want but at least we do have some form of border control so we can at least stop some these scum bags coming in.
Just have a look at them trying to board lorries , How many are families , all I seem to see are young men. Were are there woman and children all fecking left behind to fend for themselves.
I note VNA is not asking or insisting they take them up to Scotland, Ideal really put them on the islands Tyree would be ideal, not even a fecking tree can survive on there.
One of the first things they should do is if we have to take them, medical inspection, free family planning included, snip & clip.
Am I going a bit far here???
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Slag off the UK etc all you want but at least we do have some form of border control so we can at least stop some these scum bags coming in.
Just have a look at them trying to board lorries , How many are families , all I seem to see are young men. Were are there woman and children all fecking left behind to fend for themselves.
I note VNA is not asking or insisting they take them up to Scotland, Ideal really put them on the islands Tyree would be ideal, not even a fecking tree can survive on there.
One of the first things they should do is if we have to take them, medical inspection, free family planning included, snip & clip.
Am I going a bit far here???
Well you do sound as though you're proposing some kind of Nazi-style eugenics programme.
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And Doctor Strangelove once again has to slap his left hand over the right arm to stop it raising automatically in a Nazi salute.
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Well you do sound as though you're proposing some kind of Nazi-style eugenics programme.
That's what I was thinking of a few posts in this thread.
Slag off the UK etc all you want but at least we do have some form of border control so we can at least stop some these scum bags coming in.
Just have a look at them trying to board lorries , How many are families , all I seem to see are young men. Were are there woman and children all fecking left behind to fend for themselves.
I note VNA is not asking or insisting they take them up to Scotland, Ideal really put them on the islands Tyree would be ideal, not even a fecking tree can survive on there.
One of the first things they should do is if we have to take them, medical inspection, free family planning included, snip & clip.
Am I going a bit far here???
A lot of countries workers do it this way. The men work, the women mind the home. If there is no local work they travel either within the same country or abroad and send money home. I did a bike tour in Morocco. There seemed a lot of men hanging around which gave the place a slightly uncomfortable feel. A South African couple on the tour explained they just didn't have a job that day, so appear lazy and just hang around. Their wives do all the home and growing veg in their gardens/allotments etc. That's how it works throughout Africa.
I've worked for a company with a lot of Indian workers. I couldn't believe the number of colleagues in Pune India who come from other parts of India and have family 24 hours train journey a way. Some worked in the UK for a year without going home once.
I don't think they are necessary scumbags, just desperate. To get into Europe they have probably paid people smugglers a lot of money after being sold the good life story for them just to be dumped in a boat. The smugglers and the corruption in those countries needs tackling otherwise we will get a steady stream of immigrants.
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So tell me!!! have probably paid a lot of money to get here, so they must have had a job to earn money to get here. If they have a job why are they leaving??
I am sorry but we have enough of our own young people who have no work and are having to live with parents etc!! more people landing on our shores we do not need.
Call me a Nazi if you like I am only saying what a lot of people are thinking. Let them in if you like but you are only stoking the fire and there will be a day of reckoning.
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These people need our humanitarian help. Morally I'm not comfortable with women and children drowning in the Mediterranean just to get to Europe. It's a foccin' mess and we've only got ourselves to blame. Getting shot of Gaddafi was a mistake and you could say the same of Sadam (and maybe even Assad). These despots ran authoritarian states which generally caused the West no problems, suppressed radical Islam and maintained border controls. Now borders are open and every chancer from south of the Sahara can walk in. The great majority of the immigrants are poor, illiterate and unskilled Africans with nowt to offer Europe. If the tide of immigrants is not checked it will transform the character of Italy and much of Europe for the worst. It's a disgrace that the Royal Navy is assisting in dumping these people in Italy - take them back to the African coast.
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So yes, I do want to see positive action taken against the migrants as they nothing but a feccin nuisance and should be jailed for a lot of the things they are doing at the moment.
And what are they doing at the moment?
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Breaking into lorries, then the driver gets heavily fined if they are caught in wagon. Harassing people trying get away on or coming back from holidays and generally making a dam nuisance of themselves.
Yes the west has a lot answer for interfering in the affairs of Iraq, Syria and Libya etc!This open borders policy across the EU has to stop. Yes it will affect me travelling back and forth between the UK France &Spain.
Did someone post earlier that the Italians are giving some of these refugees a train ticket out off Italy for onward travel to France? As usual the Italians washing there hands again.
The EU needs to man up stop the influx and those that get through are transported back to the country they left from.
Dare I say old Enoch forewarned of this https://youtu.be/mw4vMZDItQo
"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood.'"
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And what are they doing at the moment?
Breaking into trucks and ruining food/goods meaning the whole truckload has to be destroyed as it is contaminated as well as damaged trailers.
Breaking into security zones at Calais and Eurotunnel disrupting travel.
Stowing away in trucks leaving the drivers with large fines.
Do you really need any more things listed crickleymal?
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(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy231/celticfisherman_photos/Jackson_popcorn_zps1ed2fc76.gif) (http://s795.photobucket.com/user/celticfisherman_photos/media/Jackson_popcorn_zps1ed2fc76.gif.html)
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If you allow these illegal immigrants to stay anywhere in Europe then in effect you are saying to the people smugglers just carry on what you are doing.
The EU should be sending them all back no matter which country they land in and then using all that money they have
to find and jail the people smugglers, its not just this country that has a massive problem with illegals, most of the other EU countries are in the same position, the locals in those countries don't want them either.
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In my street of 23 houses we have 2 polish families and 1 romanian family...they are proffesionals and largely are good neighbours....there are a few cultural differences shall we say.....when the street was still being built the Romanian guy pinched my other neighbours wheelbarrow...just walked down the side of his house and pinched it when he was at work....then he used it to half inch barrow loads of hardcore and sand from the workies......in that sense i dont think you could take Romania outta him no matter how much money he has the romany bugger :lol .
But yeh apart from that they are broadly simillar, polite and friendly and they look after their houses and kids....i cant really fault them...they have integrated.
But i wouldnt be so happy living next to some other nationalities....just too many differences....regardless of proffession or wealth.
I also grew up next door to a pakistani family for 16 years and they were also no hassle really.
But heres the thing.....i dont think entering another country should be any different than entering another persons house.
Would the supporters of these migrants be happy if they started walking into their house in the middle of the night?....they help themselves to everything else in the name of desparation so what makes you think they wont rob you or your family in desperation too.....regardless of how nice they are there are no jobs for them here and the system cannot cope...they have little skills and little prospects of a good and honest life....even the nicest person can do some devilish things if desperate enough.
They should only be here if they have been invited to be here....just like us in our houses.....simple as.....if they decide to come anyway then youd call the police or kick them out yourself and it is the police and government that should be doing more.
It's not on really and it's the do gooders and do nothings that will enable them and countless other undesirables to overrun everything that we hold so dear.
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Smugglers take money and don't care whether their "clients" end up living in Europe, or get deported. Tens of thousands of those people left in my country and told it's wherever they were planning on going.
Most of those people were poor, desperate, sold all they had to look for a decent life. I don't blame them. I'd do the same for my family. It's not their fault they were born where they were born. UK has gained lots of it's wealth from exploiting colonies. Nowadays it's done in a much more effective way - you make people have democracy, capitalism and make deal with the politicians to take loads of loans.
My girlfriend is going to work on a trans-atlantic ship since there are very little well paid jobs where we live now. 6 months cruise, 2 months home. I work 2 jobs now. Might (legally though) go to Germany, or Switzerland in two years time if nothing I'm planing here works out. Minimum wage here is around 1 euro. School teachers get under 400 euros per month.
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And what are they doing at the moment?
Breaking into trucks and ruining food/goods meaning the whole truckload has to be destroyed as it is contaminated as well as damaged trailers.
Breaking into security zones at Calais and Eurotunnel disrupting travel.
Stowing away in trucks leaving the drivers with large fines.
Do you really need any more things listed crickleymal?
Apparently £250million/worth of goods were disposed of last year due to contamination by illegals - whether or not they actually travelled if the load is in anyway contaminated or damaged firms won't take the risk of being liable. I'm in 2 minds as to whether this is raw desparation or purely acts of destruction based on some skewed view of what the UK is like. I also worry that all of these 'refugees' are men (do they not have womenfolk or children) and many still seem to have resources for a smart phone and expensive sportswear.
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So tell me!!! have probably paid a lot of money to get here, so they must have had a job to earn money to get here. If they have a job why are they leaving??
I am sorry but we have enough of our own young people who have no work and are having to live with parents etc!! more people landing on our shores we do not need.
Call me a Nazi if you like I am only saying what a lot of people are thinking. Let them in if you like but you are only stoking the fire and there will be a day of reckoning.
I wasn't saying we should let them in. Legally they have no right to be here. They need deporting back to where they came from (from the camps in France) if they are economic migrants and the trade in people smuggling stopped.
If a lot of people are thinking the way you are they should write to their MP/MEPs so the laws can be changed or the EU/UN as a whole to enforce the current laws.
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People do complain to their MPs and MEPs but nothing happens because you are immediately classed as a racist or fascist when the subject of any kind of immigration control is mentioned.
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what I can't understand is why don't these lorries have locks on their doors .
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People do complain to their MPs and MEPs but nothing happens because you are immediately classed as a racist or fascist when the subject of any kind of immigration control is mentioned.
I contacted my local MP a number of times on this and similar matters. The response was usually generic and in all honesty patronising - to be fair the one time their researcher came back in detail was when I queried a news story ran by MCN that motorcycle VED was to rise much faster than inflation and more than other classes of vehicles; MCN had the story very wrong (surprise, surprise).
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what I can't understand is why don't these lorries have locks on their doors .
most lorries do have locks. they just bust the locks open when the driver stops overnight/for a piss/for food and climb in. some even sit under the lorries on top of the axles and just hold on :eek
or slash a hole in the side if its a curtain sider.
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what I can't understand is why don't these lorries have locks on their doors .
Bolt croppers usually make short work of padlocks!
The humanitarian crisis is what worries me and we must(all western nations) shoulder our share of the blame for supporting crazy despotic regimes just so we can keep our armaments industries in business. And when its suited us to storm in & destabilize these countries. No wonder radical Islam thrives.
We dont as humans appear to be able to learn anything from history and seem doomed to repeat the same mistakes over & over again.
What would I do if i was desperate enough?-cant answer that since Ive been fortunate enough to have been born in the UK and benefit from our education system/NHS etc
Guess its easier for the Italians, Spanish,French to move the problem out of sight & preferably over the channel to us.
Yes we can blame our "elected" so- called leaders but theyre not about to "rock the boat"(excuse pun) are they. Perhaps true leaders only appear in times of national crisis like Churchill in 1940.
I dont care whether people call me a racist/pacifist/bigot whatever but I do care about my children & grandchildrens future-we kowtowed to Hitler until it was almost too late, but the whole system operates on fear & greed just like always!
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The humanitarian crisis is what worries me and we must(all western nations) shoulder our share of the blame for supporting crazy despotic regimes just so we can keep our armaments industries in business. And when its suited us to storm in & destabilize these countries. No wonder radical Islam thrives.
indeed, and we continue to exploit these countries for political or economic reasons. The problem won't go away until wealth is redistributed from rich to poor nations.
Guess its easier for the Italians, Spanish,French to move the problem out of sight & preferably over the channel to us.
We don't have Schengen, and we are the only one of these counties to have a natural sea border. If you go to Sicily or southern Spain you will find far more migrants than at Calais. Germany has taken many more refugees than the UK.
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If you go to Calais you will see these guys wandering round wearing new trainers, decent clothes and almost all of them have an MP3 player headphones either in their ears or round their necks. I'm not exaggerating these observations, this is what I saw, anyone who goes to Calais will see the same thing. In most cases they were dressed better than us.
When we peeled off the A16 onto the Eurotunnel slip road 5 or 6 guys came running up the embankment waving for us to stop, we ignored them of course, but I found myself wondering what they wanted, we were on fully loaded bikes FFS. Thinking about it the only thing we could have given them is cash, but do they really think people will stop on a motorway slip road and ask what they wanted with all the publicity thats surrounding them?
Something needs to be done short term, probably sending ANY person found in this country illegally from outside the EU back to either Calais or wherever they came from. Before anyone makes a comparison with the people who came from the West Indies in the 50's and 60's and all the "Send 'em back" rhetoric which was around years after, we ASKED those people to come here because we needed them, we did not ask the people trying to sneak in now to come here, we DONT need them!
Something also needs to be done long term, we need to stop making this country so appealing to them, but this will be difficult as they believe that they will be made welcome here, as told to them by the traffickers and the general gossip between themselves. The UK is the promised land, once you get in there's free money, housing, clothes, and when they get accepted by the authorities, the chance to bring over their families to increase their burden on the rest of us who are paying for all this.
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If you go to Calais you will see these guys wandering round wearing new trainers, decent clothes and almost all of them have an MP3 player headphones either in their ears or round their necks. I'm not exaggerating these observations, this is what I saw, anyone who goes to Calais will see the same thing. In most cases they were dressed better than us.
When we peeled off the A16 onto the Eurotunnel slip road 5 or 6 guys came running up the embankment waving for us to stop, we ignored them of course, but I found myself wondering what they wanted, we were on fully loaded bikes FFS. Thinking about it the only thing we could have given them is cash, but do they really think people will stop on a motorway slip road and ask what they wanted with all the publicity thats surrounding them?
Something needs to be done short term, probably sending ANY person found in this country illegally from outside the EU back to either Calais or wherever they came from. Before anyone makes a comparison with the people who came from the West Indies in the 50's and 60's and all the "Send 'em back" rhetoric which was around years after, we ASKED those people to come here because we needed them, we did not ask the people trying to sneak in now to come here, we DONT need them!
Something also needs to be done long term, we need to stop making this country so appealing to them, but this will be difficult as they believe that they will be made welcome here, as told to them by the traffickers and the general gossip between themselves. The UK is the promised land, once you get in there's free money, housing, clothes, and when they get accepted by the authorities, the chance to bring over their families to increase their burden on the rest of us who are paying for all this.
I totally agree with you.
If these were genuine refugees there would be women and children. There would be no smart phones. There would be much less tendency to threatening behaviour. These people are economic migrants and as such have no valid grounds to seek asylum in the UK (or anywhere else in the EEA for that matter). I wonder how many who have travelled from war zones are using Calais as a 'rat line' and pose a potential danger if allowed into the UK?
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People do complain to their MPs and MEPs but nothing happens because you are immediately classed as a racist or fascist when the subject of any kind of immigration control is mentioned.
Have you or anyone written to your MP/MEP and got that sort of response? If so please feel free to name and shame and do something about it.
This is what our current PM said recently.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-on-immigration (https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-on-immigration)
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Because of the stupid voting system we have in the UK,first past the post those who mention immigration will never get a fair shout in parliament.
The party that polled the 3rd largest number of votes in the last uk election was UKIP, 12.6% of the vote 1 member of parliament elected.
I am sorry to say this but if these people are willing to risk their lives crossing the Medi in some wreck of a boat let them but no way should they be taken onboard any other vessel to be rescued. The west has the naval power to turn these boats back to were they came from and that is what they should be doing. An old trick they use is when they see a ship they will set there own craft on fire to draw attention to the fact that they are now in distress and the law of the sea is that if possible they are to be rescued.
New trainers and decent clothing on these so called refugees , well obviously they are helping themselves when then break into wagons parked up for the night. I am really surprised that to date some poor truck driver has not been murdered in their own wagons.
I am a firm believer that the UK must lend more assistance to the French in the port areas of France to help kerb and control these scumbags. Like it or not that is what the vast majority of these illegals are. Every wagon should be stopped and searched before arriving in the port area and again when they get into the port. Open the back of a wagon and let a sniffer dog into the container the fact that it is a Rottweiler , Doberman or an Alsatian may prove to be an effective deterrent.
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I am a firm believer that the UK must lend more assistance to the French in the port areas of France
+1
Its now turned into a lawless scrum and something HAS to be done locally NOW or someone will get killed.
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:agree
The French are turning a blind eye to it 99% of the time as they just want the people out of France and into the UK.
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I know Bob I've witnessed it for myself. There were scores of bobbys spread out along the approach roads just watching the migrants walking in the road to force the trucks to stop while all their mates were bashing away at the truck doors to get them open. One day a trucks not going to stop and take half s dozen of them to meet their maker.
Getting back to spoiled loads, the andrex paper mill by me regularly find stowaways when a delivery of paper unloads and the whole truck load gets destroyed because of the piss and shit'
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I know Bob I've witnessed it for myself. There were scores of bobbys spread out along the approach roads just watching the migrants walking in the road to force the trucks to stop while all their mates were bashing away at the truck doors to get them open. One day a trucks not going to stop and take half s dozen of them to meet their maker.
Getting back to spoiled loads, the andrex paper mill by me regularly find stowaways when a delivery of paper unloads and the whole truck load gets destroyed because of the piss and shit'
at the least the illegals can wipe their arse in comfort!
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Interesting fact, single asylum seekers get higher living benefits in France than the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33268521 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33268521)
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Asylum seekers may get better benefits but they have to wait longer for it and provide more evidence that they are asylum seekers.
In the UK we have a weak government who give in to the EU too easily. The French don't.
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Its now turned into a lawless scrum and something HAS to be done locally NOW or someone will get killed.
I think millions already have died. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on.
But none of you give a fuck about that.
Getting shot of Gaddafi was a mistake and you could say the same of Sadam (and maybe even Assad). These despots ran authoritarian states which generally caused the West no problems, suppressed radical Islam and maintained border controls.
Most of these guys were our guys. If they weren't our guys they were the Russian's guys. Countries like Iraq were drawn up by ourselves to suit our own interests. Indeed that lovely sweet racist Winston Churchill gassed the Kurds long before Saddam did the same in 1988 with the chemicals that we had sold him. Of that nobody cared until it suited us to care over 15 years later, and of course still nobody uttered a word of Churchill's slaughter.
Here's an interesting wee article
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13499912.UK_government_spent_13_times_more_bombing_Libya_than_on_rebuilding_post_war/ (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13499912.UK_government_spent_13_times_more_bombing_Libya_than_on_rebuilding_post_war/)
Says it all really.
If these were genuine refugees there would be women and children. There would be no smart phones.
I pissed myself at that. Who decided that a refugee can't have a smart phone? Foc me!
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Does the name Custer mean anything to you :rolleyes
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More facts from the BBC article
Last year, 38.8% of UK decisions ended in a grant of asylum or an alternative form of protection. For France the rate was 21.7%.
But, while the rate of approval differed between France and the UK, the overall number of people allowed to stay was 10,050 in the UK, for France it was 14,905, because France had more than twice as many applicants.
So that debunks much of the myth about France dumping their asylum seekers on the UK.
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Well said VNA, Afghanistan,Iraq,Libya, Syria dead, I don't give a fuck about that. What I do give a fuck about is the 100,000s of thousand crossing the Medi and finding there way through Europe, a lot heading for the UK to scrounge of the state. Fuck the lot of them send them back. All you bang on about is fucking history about what we did in the past. Yes a lot of it was crap, so what are we supposed to do now say fucking sorry and welcome them with open arms.
Get real for fucks sake.
Youth unemployment in the whole of the EU is through the roof.We need to take care of our own fuck these tossers back to were they come from.
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Totally agree with you Lew, fuck the lot of them.
Stop having sex and multiplying when you can't support the lives you're bringing into this world.
If I was starving and lived in a war torn country the last thing I would be thinking is 'hey, fancy having lots of kids?'
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If there is 5,000 of them at the tunnel all hell would break loose if they all decided to storm the tunnel,,,we hopefully have a plan for that :o perhaps not,,if the army collected them at our end,,what would they do with them then?
We need a door to keep them in France :lol
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Youth unemployment? You want democracy and capitalism, why stop employers from getting cheaper labour?! You didn't mind cheap materials from 3rd world countries, why mind cheap labour?
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If there is 5,000 of them at the tunnel all hell would break loose if they all decided to storm the tunnel,,,we hopefully have a plan for that :o perhaps not,,if the army collected them at our end,,what would they do with them then?
We need a door to keep them in France :lol
Let em storm the tunnel. We just extend it all the way back to Africa :lol
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If there is 5,000 of them at the tunnel all hell would break loose if they all decided to storm the tunnel,,,we hopefully have a plan for that :o perhaps not,,if the army collected them at our end,,what would they do with them then?
We need a door to keep them in France :lol
Let em storm the tunnel. We just extend it all the way back to Africa :lol
And use them to dig it, giving them useful emlpoyment and returning them at the same time, problem solved. :)
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Its now turned into a lawless scrum and something HAS to be done locally NOW or someone will get killed.
I think millions already have died. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on.
But none of you give a fuck about that.
Getting shot of Gaddafi was a mistake and you could say the same of Sadam (and maybe even Assad). These despots ran authoritarian states which generally caused the West no problems, suppressed radical Islam and maintained border controls.
Most of these guys were our guys. If they weren't our guys they were the Russian's guys. Countries like Iraq were drawn up by ourselves to suit our own interests. Indeed that lovely sweet racist Winston Churchill gassed the Kurds long before Saddam did the same in 1988 with the chemicals that we had sold him. Of that nobody cared until it suited us to care over 15 years later, and of course still nobody uttered a word of Churchill's slaughter.
Here's an interesting wee article
[url]http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13499912.UK_government_spent_13_times_more_bombing_Libya_than_on_rebuilding_post_war/[/url] ([url]http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13499912.UK_government_spent_13_times_more_bombing_Libya_than_on_rebuilding_post_war/[/url])
Says it all really.
If these were genuine refugees there would be women and children. There would be no smart phones.
I pissed myself at that. Who decided that a refugee can't have a smart phone? Foc me!
Nobody said they couldn't have phones, but when these migrants prioritise carrying a phone over a passport and bringing their own families something stinks. Where is the phone registered, I doubt the Eritrean Phone Board provide free EU roaming! It's not unknown for an illegal (found to be illegal, with no right to asylum proven in court) to return 2 or 3 times and be picked up by UKBA or the police several times over. I consider that an utter waste of money. As a law abiding citizen it really narks me that people can repeatedly break this law, yet when we detain people who are here without established legitimacy the dogooders complain.
England is in the top 10 countries by population density with more than 10 million people; we are running short on public services meaning quality is being undermined. We already have housing crisis and homelessness, yet somehow we want to place those systems under more pressure.
I won't take personal responsbility for the actions of those before my time or in the present. That Iraq was divided by folk 70 years ago is beyond my control - even last year there were idiots talking about the futures of countries based on oil revenues, so times haven't changed on that one. I was against the War in Iraq and am unsure what they were thinking on that one.
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2000 broke into the tunnel area Monday night
1500 broke into the tunnel last night. 1 died.
Disruption and problems again.
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Youth unemployment? You want democracy and capitalism, why stop employers from getting cheaper labour?! You didn't mind cheap materials from 3rd world countries, why mind cheap labour?
For someone who comes from Serbia I think you need to look into your own countries recent history before you criticise the failings of the UK and other Western European nations.
Oh!!! and before you start slagging me off, my Daughter Inlaw hails from Albania.
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Youth unemployment? You want democracy and capitalism, why stop employers from getting cheaper labour?! You didn't mind cheap materials from 3rd world countries, why mind cheap labour?
For someone who comes from Serbia I think you need to look into your own countries recent history before you criticise the failings of the UK and other Western European nations.
Oh!!! and before you start slagging me off, my Daughter Inlaw hails from Albania.
I can say all the worst about history from 1988 to today. Have attended many anti-government demonstrations at the time of wars. However, Serbia is not a subject of discussion here.
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Correct it is not but you seem happy enough to point out the failings of the UK and other EU nations.
If you have a skill and are willing to work for the going rate of pay here in the UK or the EU feel free to come , but please do not do what others do and undercut the minimum wage scales set by law in these countries. There are plenty of bent employers around who will happily let you work for a £ under the going rate.
Just tell me what you think the masses that are crossing the Medi have to offer use here in European Union, they are all on the scrounge and just want a free meal ticket.
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Correct it is not but you seem happy enough to point out the failings of the UK and other EU nations.
In terms of influx of refugees - yes, they are responsible to a degree. Just as I blame mostly Serbia of all the former Yugoslav republics for the war and crisis here, I blame "the west" mostly for the problems in the middle east, and to a certain degree Africa.
If you have a skill and are willing to work for the going rate of pay here in the UK or the EU feel free to come
This is not easy, especially in the UK. Geting a visa and a work permit...
but please do not do what others do and undercut the minimum wage scales set by law in these countries. There are plenty of bent employers around who will happily let you work for a £ under the going rate.
Just tell me what you think the masses that are crossing the Medi have to offer use here in European Union, they are all on the scrounge and just want a free meal ticket.
I'm sure they'd be more than happy to work for money. Just like everyone else.
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It appears that some did make it on foot through the tunnel and are now being processed as asylum or whatever,,,economic migrants more like.
When this word gets back there will be more raids on the tunnels
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It appears that some did make it on foot through the tunnel and are now being processed as asylum or whatever,,,economic migrants more like.
When this word gets back there will be more raids on the tunnels
+1 If allowed to remain, even on appeal, then others will consider it a viable option. Expect lots of incidents, delays and deaths because of some warped sense of responsibility from a bunch of politicians and liberals
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snipers in the tunnel from tonight.
When this word gets back, they may think again.
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For every one of them that manages to make it to the UK illegally there is probably another 1000 back home that the people smugglers are now taking money off and telling of the success that others before have had.
We are now officially endorsing people smuggling, criminals smuggling people who have no identification that can be checked properly and these same criminals are financing terrorists.
Just google links between people smugglers and terrorism , the amount of money these criminals are making make drug smugglers look poor, they are charging £8000 per person., where the hell do these people find eight grand?
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Anyway....The French.....Economic terrorism as I see it, holding our country to ransom and effecting businesses all over Europe.
What can be done about it ? I'm not sure without doing something drastic which will be open to severe criticism. The trouble is, the French authorities aren't taking control. Only this week I heard a story of the French police preying on British motorist and fining them for speeding when they weren't and laughing at them with contempt. They hate us for some reason.
Picture of our main artery to Europe, the knock on effect on all the local villages and side roads are totally unacceptable.
It's only when you see this for yourself you realise the scale of the problem. This traffic jam, taking up both carriageways of the M20 stretches from the terminal to almost Maidstone, as far as your eyes can see in both directions from where I took this picture.
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My Mrs is heading to Eurotunnel I the morning. Hopefully she will get across of.
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AS said on the BBC news, stop blaming the French. They only have to say fuck border controls. At least you still have to show your passport when entering the port/euro tunnel areas. They only have to wave everyone through load the ferry and let the UK sort the problem out our side and then all they have to do is introduce border controls for those entering France from the UK and send them back. So those of us think us giving £7 million to help beef up and assist the french at the end of the day that is small change.
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on the news yesterday was a figure from the French I believe saying that they have recently stopped circa 37, 000 illegal immigrants from entering the UK....that is staggering....only the ones they know that they stopped.
the same day I hear that the British Army has cut its numbers ahead of schedule by 20,000............now stands at about 80, 000 strong...or weak rather.
so the UK government has crippled the British Army to save money...... but will end up with a far greater number of immigrants that will cost it more than the average squaddie......and be foc all good.....and allot will end up being terror threats.
ah well......I bet allot of folk moaning about the immigrants still voted to keep the torys in....this is the result...you can keep your posh houses and have them ransacked by a mob of Liberians right after they've shit on your Leylandii's & scoffed your Bichon Frise. :evil
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Is it any wonder we are having hoards from all over wanting to get into the UK.
That fecking Idiot Cameron is giving them all the encouragement they will ever need.
He said: "This is very testing, I accept that, because you have got a swarm of people coming across the Mediterranean, seeking a better life, wanting to come to Britain because Britain has got jobs, it's got a growing economy, it's an incredible place to live.
[/size]Well done David best advert for the UK in years, do you ever actually stop and think that maybe you are not sending these scumbags the message they need to be told and hear. The message should be WE DON'T WANT YOU , WE ARE FULL UP, THERE IS NOTHING HERE FOR YOU, WE WILL NOT FEED YOU, WE WILL NOT GIVE YOU ANY KIND OF AID APART FROM A TICKET BACK OR BETTER STILL FREE TRANSPORT BACK TO WERE EVER YOU CAME FROM.[/color]
[/size]The man is not in touch with how the vast majority of people in the UK and Europe feel.[/color]
[/size]Time to target a few bang bang, some of these guys have to be ISIS that is a good enough excuse.[/color]
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Don't let compassion drown . . .
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The news reports last night and this morning were telling us about the problems in Budapest. They had closed the railway station and told people that they needed to register for asylum there. None wanted to as they knew the benefits were better elsewhere.
The other night there was a documentary on C4 about the migrants trying to climb onto trucks in Calais. The reason they gave? "In England they give you a house. They give you money while they sort out your papers so you can work". These are not asylum seekers, they are economic migrants.
As a Country we need to make it clear and advertise the fact that illegal immigrants will be shipped back to their homeland and NO benefits are available to them. Our politicians are too weak for that though. We will continue to give them housing and cash.
I have nothing against real asylum seekers and they are welcome here if this is the first safe country they get to. If the first safe country is Spain or France, or Turkey or Italy, they should claim asylum there, not continue to England for a free house.
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well said bbrown, that,s the facts of it, also how many are terrorists, ? we wouldn't know until it is to late,. :'(
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(http://i59.tinypic.com/2qlcy1h.jpg)
And I'm sure they're all terrorists, coming to destroy the lovely peace loving countries.
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([url]http://i59.tinypic.com/2qlcy1h.jpg[/url])
And I'm sure they're all terrorists, coming to destroy the lovely peace loving countries.
What is the acceptable level of terrorists per 10,000 illegal immigrants then? The whole of the EU and a fair few other countries have enough trouble keeping tabs on their own home grown terrorists to want to allow just one more in.
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Yes yet again the guy from Serbia has an opinion on how the west should behave.
Funny I am just reading a book at the moment about the atrocities that took place in and around Sarajevo,
I will say the west has a lot to answer for over the years how dare they stop the Serbians slaughtering Muslims in there hundreds of thousands???
We in the west have only ourselves to blame, assisted in the removal of Gadaffi , again arming the so called freedom fighters in Syria, the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Oh yes we will pay a heavy price at the end of the day. Even if just a few ISIS members get in and try and cause murder an mayhem.
A sad fact of life is the security forces need to get lucky all of the time, a terrorist only needs to get lucky ONCE.
It really is time to stop pussy footing about over this immigrant thing, the world needs to put boots on the ground again and go in for the long haul, rid the world of these scum bags. When that job is done the people of these war torn countries should be given assistance to rebuild their lives and devastated regions.
The oil majors should be made to stump up vast amounts of funds to assist in this regeneration, lets face it Iraq was all about oil, etc!
Have you ever noticed the favoured weapon of a terrorist seems to be the AK47 Kalashnikov, what western arms manufacturer makes these then. :eek The big bad old west eh!!!!
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What is the acceptable level of terrorists per 10,000 illegal immigrants then? The whole of the EU and a fair few other countries have enough trouble keeping tabs on their own home grown terrorists to want to allow just one more in.
Exactly. You can't arrest all the people.
What caused those problems? Once stable countries, Siria, Lybia etc were given democracy, whether they wanted or not, by US & NATO (Germany, France, and the UK).
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Yes yet again the guy from Serbia has an opinion on how the west should behave.
Funny I am just reading a book at the moment about the atrocities that took place in and around Sarajevo,
I will say the west has a lot to answer for over the years how dare they stop the Serbians slaughtering Muslims in there hundreds of thousands???
I blame Serbia mostly for all that horror. But it is true that the west did nothing to make it better, only made it worse with economic embargo.
[/font][/size]
We in the west have only ourselves to blame, assisted in the removal of Gadaffi , again arming the so called freedom fighters in Syria, the Taliban in Afghanistan.
[/font]
Exactly.
[/size]
Oh yes we will pay a heavy price at the end of the day. Even if just a few ISIS members get in and try and cause murder an mayhem.
A sad fact of life is the security forces need to get lucky all of the time, a terrorist only needs to get lucky ONCE.
It really is time to stop pussy footing about over this immigrant thing, the world needs to put boots on the ground again and go in for the long haul, rid the world of these scum bags. When that job is done the people of these war torn countries should be given assistance to rebuild their lives and devastated regions.
The oil majors should be made to stump up vast amounts of funds to assist in this regeneration, lets face it Iraq was all about oil, etc!
Have you ever noticed the favoured weapon of a terrorist seems to be the AK47 Kalashnikov, what western arms manufacturer makes these then. :eek The big bad old west eh!!!!
[/size]
You don't have to produce anything in order to (re)sell it. And it is a mess mostly caused by the US & the west.
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We fucked over Afghanistan.
We did the same to Iraq.
We screwed Libya.
We thought we could get rid of Assad, that is Assad the friend of Iran and Russia.
So we armed ISIS to screw Assad, while Russia sold unlimited arms to Assad and got backing from Iran. The civilians in the middle got slaughtered. How dumb can you get? Who are the real terrorists?
We screw them over, put in our strong men (dictators) steal their oil and fight over land and influence.
Then we throw our hands up in the air when the refugees start running our way looking for safety.
This is our mess.
Refugees are welcome here!
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the banker could have been an immigrant himself.?
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We fucked over Afghanistan.
We did the same to Iraq.
We screwed Libya.
We thought we could get rid of Assad, that is Assad the friend of Iran and Russia.
So we armed ISIS to screw Assad, while Russia sold unlimited arms to Assad and got backing from Iran. The civilians in the middle got slaughtered. How dumb can you get? Who are the real terrorists?
We screw them over, put in our strong men (dictators) steal their oil and fight over land and influence.
Then we throw our hands up in the air when the refugees start running our way looking for safety.
This is our mess.
Refugees are welcome here!
+1
Lots of refugees going through Serbia. Unofficial policy has been to let them pass through and let the EU fuck with them. :)
But even with that, we've got some 10,000 so far and rising. Collecting blankets and food, but when the winter comes... it will be tough for all.
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We fucked over Afghanistan.
We did the same to Iraq.
We screwed Libya.
We thought we could get rid of Assad, that is Assad the friend of Iran and Russia.
So we armed ISIS to screw Assad, while Russia sold unlimited arms to Assad and got backing from Iran. The civilians in the middle got slaughtered. How dumb can you get? Who are the real terrorists?
We screw them over, put in our strong men (dictators) steal their oil and fight over land and influence.
Then we throw our hands up in the air when the refugees start running our way looking for safety.
This is our mess.
Refugees are welcome here!
VNA......i dont disagree with lots of the things that you say...clearly you are of open mind....but with open mind comes the chance of just letting anything in.
This "we"..... I hope you dont mean me...or my family.....or my extended family.....becuse we all have values far from what you claim....do you mean yourself......i would hope not......do you mean your own country, the UK...or do you mean half of the world......anyway i think to state that this royal "we" is to blame is to not admit that you participate to be the "we" as one of the sum of parts.
All of this arming ISIS trifle........i do not buy that one bit......ok our government has secret agendas and it is well proven that they fucked up with Iraq....so be it...that is life....they were forced to eat humble pie over that.....but to say that they are arming ISIS....ISIS arm thereselves....through their own funding & pillaging and beheading.....that is quite clear......to suggest otherwise is playing into the hands of ill.
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Can anyone answer this one how many of these refugees have attempted to cross from Syria, Libya to other Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates, Iran.
Okay I am aware of the Sunni & Shi'a problems may have a baring on movement so why not organised airlifts to assist the different sects to a country of their faith.
I would have thought that if once you had reached a safe haven/country and were seeking asylum that was that your family are safe etc! but no a lot of these people are proving themselves to be no more than economic migrants by there insistence on getting to Germany and other so called wealthy western nations.
For all the wrongs and mistakes the west have made to rectify these past errors like it or not the Western countries are going to have to put boots on the ground and sort this shit out once and for all.
Also like it or not we are going to have to ask for the assistance of Mr Putin and Co.
Concerning the removal of Gadaffi this time around the USA cannot be blamed for that as they took no action in that cockup, that was down to Britain, France, Germany and Italy.
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Of course they are economic migrants. Would you settle for 1 pound per hour?! For the rest of your life?
So just because one is born in... say UK, they are 100 times more worth than someone born in say Africa?!? Fuck that. Market economy, mobile labour - got that at it's best.
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Fuck your mobile labour , stay in you own country and do what the rest of us did and fight for a decent living wage and standard of living. Do you think that we just accepted what an employer said we are worth, no we fought for our standard of living through trades unions , protests etc!!! and you think we will simply stand by and let economic migrants just erode all those rights away. All is happening is resentment towards these people who think they can just wander around Europe and pick off jobs for a few ££ or €€ an hour less than a local.
In the UK and I assume in other EU countries there is a minimum wage to protect us from totally unscrupulous employers. If these people keep coming in the droves they are you will see a rise in Nationalism along the lines of what happened in the 1930's and NO ONE wants to see that again, but keep pushing and once that train starts rolling it will be very difficult to stop.
UKIP in the UK only returned 1 MP at the last general election but were still the received the 3rd largest share of the vote @12.6%. If this situation continues they will double their vote next time around and they will continue to gain more support as time goes by.
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Fuck your mobile labour , stay in you own country and do what the rest of us did and fight for a decent living wage and standard of living. Do you think that we just accepted what an employer said we are worth, no we fought for our standard of living through trades unions , protests etc!!!
You think that would work in Serbia, or Africa. It doesn't. Been there, done that.
and you think we will simply stand by and let economic migrants just erode all those rights away. All is happening is resentment towards these people who think they can just wander around Europe and pick off jobs for a few ££ or €€ an hour less than a local.
That's what big economies do to small economies. Mass production, price lower for a few cents and small economies are pushed out of the market. All that undeveloped countries have to offer now is cheap labour. Why is it not allowed to be offered in all the markets?
In the UK and I assume in other EU countries there is a minimum wage to protect us from totally unscrupulous employers. If these people keep coming in the droves they are you will see a rise in Nationalism along the lines of what happened in the 1930's and NO ONE wants to see that again, but keep pushing and once that train starts rolling it will be very difficult to stop.
But that train has rolled long time ago in Syria, Iraq, and even in Europe - former Yugoslavia as the best example.
The problems US was mostly responsible for (with the aid of UK, Germany mostly) is now coming back.
The main problem is that the poor will suffer most - refugees taking most minimum wage jobs I presume. Middle class as well. But the rich I presume will keep getting richer and richer no matter what.
More than half the world population lives in poverty, hunger. Until a worldwide (communist) revolution happens, it will never be good, or right.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-hundreds-of-volunteers-join-convoy-to-take-asylum-seekers-from-hungary-to-austria-as-train-stalemate-continues-10486170.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-hundreds-of-volunteers-join-convoy-to-take-asylum-seekers-from-hungary-to-austria-as-train-stalemate-continues-10486170.html)
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Fuck your mobile labour , stay in you own country
Umm where do you reside again Lew?
Can anyone answer this one how many of these refugees have attempted to cross from Syria, Libya to other Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates, Iran.
Because probably like us they wish to live in a secular society. Why would a refugee flee the terror of the Wahhabist ISIS, only to try and seek safety in a repressive wahhabist state that is along with some of our other so called Gulf Allies accused of funding ISIS?
This "we"..... I hope you dont mean me...or my family.....or my extended family.....becuse we all have values far from what you claim....do you mean yourself......i would hope not......do you mean your own country, the UK...or do you mean half of the world......anyway i think to state that this royal "we" is to blame is to not admit that you participate to be the "we" as one of the sum of parts.
Yes 'we' as in the UK. We have a responsibility to these refugees. And a responsibility to resolve the many issues of our making in the Middle East.
This crises is potentially the tip of the iceberg.
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VNA, I live in Spain, why?because I can fucking well afford to, I also have a home in the UK , why because I fucking well can afford to +it makes me money. Why have I got this kind of life style, because I worked all my fucking life at sea 43 years, but even that started to change, why because of cheap foreign labour.
I have sympathy for those from war torn countries yes let the genuine ones in give them support and comfort , but as soon as this shit is sorted out ship em back.
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VNA, I live in Spain, why?
So you are an immigrant in Spain. Shouldn't the Spanish ship you back (Lord help the English!)
Or should you not practise what you preach and "stay in you own country"?
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Big difference I am not here living off the state, I pay taxes in the UK and taxes in Spain. Next question?
Oh the guy that does the garden and cleans the pool is a young Spanish lad that a group of us employ.
I have no doubt that my tax bill will increase this year here and the UK seeing as Spain and the UK are taking in refugees/economic migrants.
This will no doubt please you and a few others, Mr Ian Duncan Smith has stopped expats winter fuel allowance £200.00. Now I don't have a problem with that as he says the government have to make savings also I don't need it.
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Oh the guy that does the garden and cleans the pool is a young Spanish lad that a group of us employ.
Probably can't afford a house though cos all you wealthy economic migrants have pushed the house prices up, and as a UK landlord not just in Spain but the UK too.
stay in you own country
But seriously shouldn't you practise what you preach?
I am not here living off the state,
Under UK rules, Asylum Seekers are not allowed to work. They are forced, against their will, to live off the state.
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VNA, just for you
An [/size]economic migrant[/color][/size] is someone who [/color][/size]emigrates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration)[/color][/size] from one region to another because living conditions or job opportunities are not good enough for one's expectations in their own country and to seek an improvement in their standard of living elsewhere.[/color][/size][1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_migrant#cite_note-1)[/font][/size][/color][2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_migrant#cite_note-2)[/font][/size][/color] Economic migrants who work outside of their home country are termed [/font][/color][/size]migrant workers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_worker)[/color][/size] by the United Nations.[/color][/size][ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_migrant#cite_note-3)[/font][/size]
I am retired and live in Spain as I like the climate.
So are you saying that as an EU citizen I do not have the right to live in another EU member state.
The fact that these refugees are not wanting to stay in the first country in the EU that has allowed them to land for me shifts their status from refugee to economic migrant. Have you noticed though that those flooding into Germany are not Black? also a lot of people from Syria have startlingly Blue eyes!!!!
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I have just e mailed, d Cameron about this subject, instead of arguing on here tell him, his e mail on on the net, surely it,s better to tell someone who can do something about it, instead of kicking of with fellow wankers, eeerrrh fockers lol, xx lew Is ace living the dream.
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I am retired and live in Spain as I like the climate.
Nothing to do with economics then. Aye right!
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Oh you sad sad person, you just go on and enjoy your climate mate. Cold wet and windy, no summer this year for you worth talking about. Maybe you have that SADS syndrome, Just think the onset of winter short daylight hours, freezing winter temperatures, yes you have a lot to look forward to for the next 8 months at least.
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VNA, I live in Spain, why?because I can fucking well afford to, I also have a home in the UK , why because I fucking well can afford to +it makes me money. Why have I got this kind of life style, because I worked all my fucking life at sea 43 years, but even that started to change, why because of cheap foreign labour.
I have sympathy for those from war torn countries yes let the genuine ones in give them support and comfort , but as soon as this shit is sorted out ship em back.
You've worked hard Lew - where you choose to spend your money on living is totally up to you. Money and taxes into two economies = top bloke in my book. Jealous as fook...........crack on fella :thumbup
Big difference I am not here living off the state, I pay taxes in the UK and taxes in Spain. Next question?
Oh the guy that does the garden and cleans the pool is a young Spanish lad that a group of us employ.
I have no doubt that my tax bill will increase this year here and the UK seeing as Spain and the UK are taking in refugees/economic migrants.
This will no doubt please you and a few others, Mr Ian Duncan Smith has stopped expats winter fuel allowance £200.00. Now I don't have a problem with that as he says the government have to make savings also I don't need it.
As said before - you're paying your own way.
My 2p - where and how Lew chooses to live has got feck all to do with the basic issue of UK immigration. Any Happy Clappers or tree huggers need to aim elsewhere.
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Few percent of the richest people in the world hold about 90% of the world resources.
90% of the world population are poor.
Few percent of not so poor people (USA and EU middle class, mostly) are hoping to stay in the middle, sort of an oasis as long as possible. But since the fall of communism, there is no alternative, and soon all the workers will be, like in China, working for a few dollars per hour. Immigrants are just making that process a bit faster, but it is not their fault and they aren't the ones to lay blame on. IMO.
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If this has been said before, sorry, just not going to trawl through five pages.
Illegal immigration isn't the problem is it!
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https://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2015/09/20/europe-forgets-that-serbia-alone-received-900000-refugees-in-the-nineties/
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Just remember Slaninar.
There are two sides to every story.
The Bosnian War for independence resulted in large-scale destruction and dramatic population shifts during the Siege of Sarajevo between 1992 and 1995. Thousands of Sarajevans lost their lives under the constant bombardment and sniper shooting at civilians by the Serb forces during the siege.[51] It is the longest siege of a capital city in the history of modern warfare.[52] Serb forces of the Republika Srpska and the Yugoslav People's Army besieged Sarajevo, the largest city of Bosnia and Herzegovina, from 5 April 1992 to 29 February 1996 during the Bosnian War.
When Bosnia and Herzegovina declared independence from Yugoslavia and achieved United Nations recognition, the Serbian leaders and army whose goal was to create a "greater Serbia", declared a new Serbian national state Republika Srpska (RS) which was carved from the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina,[53] encircled Sarajevo with a siege force of 18,000[54] stationed in the surrounding hills, from which they assaulted the city with weapons that included artillery, mortars, tanks, anti-aircraft guns, heavy machine-guns, multiple rocket launchers, rocket-launched aircraft bombs, and sniper rifles.[54] From 2 May 1992, the Serbs blockaded the city. The Bosnian government defence forces inside the besieged city were poorly equipped and unable to break the siege.
During the siege, 11,541 people lost their lives, including over 1,500 children. An additional 56,000 people were wounded, including nearly 15,000 children.[51] The 1991 census indicates that before the siege the city and its surrounding areas had a population of 525,980
Yes the Albanians did there fair share of butchering Serbs wrongs on both sides. There are no winners in any wars only victims.
The world was a far safer place with that wall running through Berlin.
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No question about that. This is just about refugees - numbers. All the panic.
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I think more of us have concerns about the number of these so called refugees that turnout to be ISIS or some other terrorist group. I suspect the west may be about to reap what we have sown due to the interference in the middle east.
Now this may surprise you Slaninar, Putin and Russia have my 100% backing by putting boots on the ground in Syria, we here in the west have huffed and puffed long enough and screwed up to often. Iraq(big oil) Libya (big oil). Shell oil & B.P in Russia (oil & gas)now that was funny, hand the Russians all the technology to improve their oil industry. When it is all singing and dancing tell them to feck off.
Now we even have a Prime Minister in the UK it would appear he loves PIGS. The Labour party have just committed political suicide by electing a new leader who wants to turn the clock back to dark ages.
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I just don't see terrorism being a great threat, we have had tens if not hundreds of wanabe ISIS converts go to the middle east yet none comited acts of terror before leaving. And please don't say its because they had no training.
If some group wanted to kill and maim others, a co-ordinated attack, be it with bats, knifes, acid or vehicles would set widespread panic amoung the population, these weapons are readily available and if we can think about the damage such an attack would do then so can they.
I was living in Leicester at the time of 7 7 and the police raided several properties on my street as it was apparently teaming with terrorist suspects. You know how many were ever charged with any terror related crimes....None, not one.
People need to stop reading the press and listening to the government. Those focers would have you stay inside 24 7
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On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma,
(Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Shari ‘a Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honourable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians. The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes!
The man has a point :eek
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I'm not much of an admirer of Putin. Gangster, dictator.
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Recently in the UK a British service man was told to move out of the public area in the A&E of a Hospital. Hospital staff were concerned that the sight of his uniform may cause offence to other patients. Sorry but this is has to stop. If anyone regardless of race or religion takes offence or any aggressive behavior towards a member of the Armed forces while in the UK they should be arrested and if found not to be a British national they should be deported. If they are a British national they should be jailed.
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Recently in the UK a British service man was told to move out of the public area in the A&E of a Hospital. Hospital staff were concerned that the sight of his uniform may cause offence to other patients. Sorry but this is has to stop. If anyone regardless of race or religion takes offence or any aggressive behavior towards a member of the Armed forces while in the UK they should be arrested and if found not to be a British national they should be deported. If they are a British national they should be jailed.
And while you're at it, add some Hugo Boss leather coats to the uniforms...
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Have you noticed though that those flooding into Germany are not Black? also a lot of people from Syria have startlingly Blue eyes!!!!
Now this may surprise you Slaninar, Putin and Russia have my 100% backing
Why I am not surprised that all right wing xenophobic racists are against asylum seekers and admire Putin?
How do you argue with that kind of ignorance? You simpy don't. Do not even bother.
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So who else on here thinks it is acceptable for a serving member of the British armed forces to be moved to a more discreet area while waiting for treatment at A&E in a UK hospital just incase it would cause offence to others in A&E.
This is bollocks, are we going to ban remembrance Sunday next just incase we offend the Muslim, Asian and Germans who live in the UK.
Unless I am viewing a different News Channel than the likes of Val those being welcomed with open arms into Germany were Syrians or from other middle east countries, and yes a lot of Syrians do have striking blue eyes. Merkel has really not helped with her statement, 800,000 bet she did not expect them to try and turn up in the first week
Anyone else think Putin was wrong here . Wish our politicians had the same kind of balls. On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma,
(Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Shari ‘a Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this ??honourable?? legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians. The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes!
I wonder how many who shout folk like me down have actually ever lived , or worked with different ethnic groups or have they just been abroad for their two weeks holiday.
Slaninar have you started to pack yet, you want to earn a decent living , which you and others are entitled to, the German Chancellor has said all are welcome.
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I'm not much of an admirer of Putin. Gangster, dictator.
Well there's a feckin surprise - didn't see that coming :rolleyes
Recently in the UK a British service man was told to move out of the public area in the A&E of a Hospital. Hospital staff were concerned that the sight of his uniform may cause offence to other patients. Sorry but this is has to stop. If anyone regardless of race or religion takes offence or any aggressive behavior towards a member of the Armed forces while in the UK they should be arrested and if found not to be a British national they should be deported. If they are a British national they should be jailed.
And while you're at it, add some Hugo Boss leather coats to the uniforms...
This is a prime example of what Putin is referring to...or did you miss that bit eh? Hugo Boss eh... :finger
Just in case, here it is again...[size=78%].[/size]
So who else on here thinks it is acceptable for a serving member of the British armed forces to be moved to a more discreet area while waiting for treatment at A&E in a UK hospital just incase it would cause offence to others in A&E. Not me for very fucking good reasons
This is bollocks, are we going to ban remembrance Sunday next just incase we offend the Muslim, Asian and Germans who live in the UK. Soft as shite government so wouldn't bet against it Lew.
Unless I am viewing a different News Channel than the likes of Val those being welcomed with open arms into Germany were Syrians or from other middle east countries, and yes a lot of Syrians do have striking blue eyes. Merkel has really not helped with her statement, 800,000 bet she did not expect them to try and turn up in the first week
Anyone else think Putin was wrong here . Wish our politicians had the same kind of balls. On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma,
(Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Shari ‘a Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this ??honourable?? legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians. The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes! :woot
I actually think Slaninar that you are just an argumentative prick who keeps swerving the core issue of this thread. Another Non English/British who wants to dictate how we live - BOLLOCKS.
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So who else on here thinks it is acceptable for a serving member of the British armed forces to be moved to a more discreet area while waiting for treatment at A&E in a UK hospital just incase it would cause offence to others in A&E.
This is bollocks, are we going to ban remembrance Sunday next just incase we offend the Muslim, Asian and Germans who live in the UK.
Unless I am viewing a different News Channel than the likes of Val those being welcomed with open arms into Germany were Syrians or from other middle east countries, and yes a lot of Syrians do have striking blue eyes. Merkel has really not helped with her statement, 800,000 bet she did not expect them to try and turn up in the first week
Anyone else think Putin was wrong here . Wish our politicians had the same kind of balls. On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma,
(Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Shari ‘a Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this ??honourable?? legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians. The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes!
I wonder how many who shout folk like me down have actually ever lived , or worked with different ethnic groups or have they just been abroad for their two weeks holiday.
Slaninar have you started to pack yet, you want to earn a decent living , which you and others are entitled to, the German Chancellor has said all are welcome.
:agree
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I'd never arrest anyone for not feeling comfortable next to military or police uniforms. Nor do I find that non-patriotic. Sorry.
The Putin philosophy some here admire is what started civil war in my country. Lack of tolerance, understanding, fear and hostility towards different religions (in that case).
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Well what a surprise Slaninar, you would never arrest anyone for not feeling comfortable to someone in a uniform sitting next to Military or police???
So the murdering scum that hacked Lee Rigby to death on a London street should be released?
Someone who comes from a country that did not seem to have a problem about Ethnic cleansing in recent times to be voicing an opinion about what goes on here in Britain.
???
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Well what a surprise Slaninar, you would never arrest anyone for not feeling comfortable to someone in a uniform sitting next to Military or police???
So the murdering scum that hacked Lee Rigby to death on a London street should be released?
Someone who comes from a country that did not seem to have a problem about Ethnic cleansing in recent times to be voicing an opinion about what goes on here in Britain.
???
I would arrest for murder.
One doesn't choose race, religion, or a place of birth. Judging people by that is called nationalism, or fascism. Too often mistaken with patriotism.