Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: sadlonelygit on 12 June 2015, 11:47:43 am
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firstly no i haven't been done :rollin
i was coming out of Laaaaaahndan t'other day and the usual crawl of 20-30-40 to hammersmith, then M25 and bikes were buzzing around, then we get onto the open m'way and traffic is flowing nicely and still bikes are filtering at 80+.
the thing is, at low speeds i can see bikes weaving along and make some space because my stopping distances are pretty similar to cars, however once i'm doing 62, i spend less time looking in the mirrors as i need 2/3x the stopping distance, so if you come flying past me in a coach/delivery van sandwich don't complain if you get squeezed.
would just like to say that i didn't see any fazers doing this, mainly ducatis and triumphs!!
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Id say anything above 10mph traffic flow is not filtering, there must be a textbook answer somewhere.
I noticed the other day that cars on a and b roads were almost putting themselves in the gutter as if to let me by.....ok so i suppose they are trying to be nice but more to the point i bet theyve been bullied so much by over keen riders that they think it is the accepted norm....no thanks mate ill hang back & pass when it is safe rather than all this swerving about mallarky
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I searched high and low for a definition on filtering when I was doing the IAM training and couldn't find anything anywhere.
My take is, if they(authorities) don't give a definition then they can use it against you when ever they want.
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It'll be really down to the interpretation of the copper who stops you.
That said, Met Police at a Bike Safe day suggest: a max 10mph difference to adjacent traffic and no filtering over 40mph. Which TBH seems fairly reasonable.
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I was told by a cop that there's no legal definition for filtering ref speed
it is legal to filter and its recognised in the Highway code
IMO filtering above 25mph on a motorway is foolish to say the least as stationary traffic still move out to change lanes/block you....observation is key, if you're filtering at 70+ between traffic (moving or not) then you're a twat who's asking for trouble
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It'll be really down to the interpretation of the copper who stops you.
That said, Met Police at a Bike Safe day suggest: a max 10mph difference to adjacent traffic and no filtering over 40mph. Which TBH seems fairly reasonable.
This is pretty much exactly what I do and feel comfortable with though I rarely filter anyway as most of my rides are luxury and not commuting therefore the situation rarely presents itself.
I will admit to some undertaking on the motorway though, but now that I think about it that has only ever been on the M25... lanes 1 + 2 seem to move much more freely for a motorcycle if you do undertake. I'd like to point out that I'm not zipping past at 3-digit figures here, just making progress at around 70, sometimes up to 80 to get past without lingering in a blind spot.
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You get used to it filtering into London and back on a daily basis. I generally stick to about 10mph faster than cars - that kind of speed I'd only not be able to stop if someone litearlly pulled out into the side of me. Tend to quit at about 70 and just sit there on the a roads i go into work on!
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What is DWDC ?
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My guess is driving without due care .
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What is DWDC ?
According to Google, it's the Dominican Women's Development Center.
I think I should start slowing down :rolleyes
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My guess is driving without due care .
Ah yes. Of course. :o
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It'll be really down to the interpretation of the copper who stops you.
That said, Met Police at a Bike Safe day suggest: a max 10mph difference to adjacent traffic and no filtering over 40mph. Which TBH seems fairly reasonable.
This is pretty much what I stick to as well. I do t feel safe or comfortable filtering above 35-40mph.
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Surely common sense prevails.....i mean if you're "filtering" at 40mph then you are also surely undertaking one of the vehicles which is therefore illegal?
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Undertaking itself is not illegal though noggy, it's careless driving you will get done for if your doing it at high speed etc.
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Undertaking itself is not illegal though noggy, it's careless driving you will get done for if your doing it at high speed etc.
Shit.....you learn something new everyday......always thought it was illegal......foc now i feel like ive been missing out :b
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Filtering itself is not illegal. Even undertaking (overtaking on the left) is perfectly legal now.
If you filter or undertake it is for the police to prove that your standard of riding fell below what would be considered acceptable.
It will be DWDC if you weave from lane to lane, suddenly cut across the front of vehicles, or ride too aggressively between them.
So filtering on its own cannot be DWDC. If you ride smoothly and safely, do not take risks, and do not compromise the safety of others then you shouldn't have a problem. Speed does not make any difference here.
If done sensible it is ok for example this chap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSuwEqu9T8U) :lol
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is this ok?
sorry link not working?
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You get used to it filtering into London and back on a daily basis. I generally stick to about 10mph faster than cars - that kind of speed I'd only not be able to stop if someone litearlly pulled out into the side of me. Tend to quit at about 70 and just sit there on the a roads i go into work on!
Apart from knackering my mirror on the arse of a lorry the other day (my bad) I agree with Joe....although there are times in London where "point & squirt" applies and others where 10mph goes out of the window on the basis of London's Mantra being "look after yourself and screw all others".
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I do the speed that I'm feeling comfortable with at the time. Too busy concentrating on the traffic to be watling the speedo
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I searched high and low for a definition on filtering when I was doing the IAM training and couldn't find anything anywhere.
The advice I was given when I did my Advanced Test was "20 delta 15" ie you shouldn't filter if the traffic is doing more than 20mph and you shouldn't filter at more than 15mph faster than the traffic is going.
This is covered in the IAM's "How to Be a Better Rider" book.
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How many cars are needed in each lane before it can be classed as filtering and not under just under/overtaking ;)
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there is no such thing as common sense in Law, so to say something like "common sense would tell you not to do it/slow down etc" is completely unforceable in a court
in layman terms, the reason is that my IQ is different from the next persons and what I consider to be common sense may be totally alien to what the next person perceives as common sense given the same set of circumstances, hence the term is load of old bollix and would be thrown out of court
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When I did BikeSafe a few years back Mr Policeman said filtering 'up to 40ish', meaning the traffic you were filtering through was doing no more than 40 - beyond that you were starting to take the piss a little, although he didn't come out with a definitive speed for 'taking the piss', I suspect, because there isn't one so it'll be down to the judgement of any copper who sees you.
On my commute home from Central London to North Kent I often see police bikes filtering at those sort of speeds - sometimes faster.
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My cut off is around 30 mph for traffic speed withe me at around 10mph more, but il aslo judge the twat level of the drivers around me.
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Same here, about 20-30mph depending on traffic conditions. I have done it faster on motorways but I don't really feel safe much above 40.
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Just caught up with this thread (been on my hols)
You've got to look at regional differences here too.
Filtering in London is seen very differently as for instance in Blackpool. I was taught to ride in London by a city riding veteran, and its brutal in comparison, but the car drivers are used to it. Ride like that in Blackpool/Preston, and you'll get pulled by the law, or not seen and probably knocked off!
As for legal side of filtering. As long as your not doing stupid stuff like making people take evasive action, or being dangerous/endangering other road users, then it's a case of just be careful.
The speed is up to you, just think of how it looks filtering at 30,40,50 to other road users who maybe are not bikers, and could very well be an unmarked cop car with video fitted. Condemning evidence to a layman in court.
Ride safe guys! ;)
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Filtering itself is not illegal. Even undertaking (overtaking on the left) is perfectly legal now.
If you filter or undertake it is for the police to prove that your standard of riding fell below what would be considered acceptable.
It will be DWDC if you weave from lane to lane, suddenly cut across the front of vehicles, or ride too aggressively between them.
So filtering on its own cannot be DWDC. If you ride smoothly and safely, do not take risks, and do not compromise the safety of others then you shouldn't have a problem. Speed does not make any difference here.
If done sensible it is ok for example this chap ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSuwEqu9T8U[/url]) :lol
This chap reminds me of me when a courier in London. Only joking.
I think I've seen this bike for sale, low mileage, never been thrashed, slightly used limiter and horn
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hope this link works
https://www.facebook.com/100007648515418/videos/1562982180633384/ (https://www.facebook.com/100007648515418/videos/1562982180633384/)
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Cops I've spoken to about this subject and other things bike related have always quoted "you must be able to stop on your own side of the road that can be seen" so in general terms, if it's deemed that you can't when your filtering and an accident prevales, guess who's at fault? Regardless of the cage driver turning into your path as you filter :eek
Law is an ass really.
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I've just posted this link on the Fazer Down thread, but it's worth repeating here.
Here's a list of some legal precedents for filtering accidents (http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/accidents-involving-filtering-what-the-law-says-lu-2811.htm)
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Cops I've spoken to about this subject and other things bike related have always quoted "you must be able to stop on your own side of the road that can be seen" so in general terms, if it's deemed that you can't when your filtering and an accident prevales, guess who's at fault? Regardless of the cage driver turning into your path as you filter :eek
Law is an ass really.
Acually cops do not have any word whatsoever on the legality of filtering. They can do you for dangerous driving, but again nothing to do with filtering per se which is perfectly legal.
London cops are pretty relaxed about filtering. Obviously for local ones filtering may look like thousands of kittens bloodbath :eek
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b8/b8d1040fd24a4ab58264e561213da0858068c6a8f3901ac9ecae2bd7cb175efb.jpg)
Anyway if there is an accident thankfully not the cops, but the court decides who is to blame :D
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Am I the only person to have knocked down two people when filtering on 2 separate occasions in 2 different towns :rollin
Hit a flower seller coming out of London on the Westway.
And hit a woman who jumped out in front of a parked Bus on the High street in Oxford.
Only time I been hit by a car was in Banbury in a similar situation to Red98's
I finds peds will throw themselves at you because they only see the queued cars and don't look for bikes at all, and on dark nights they will wear Ninja clothing just to make your job harder at trying to spot them. :rolleyes
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Am I the only person to have knocked down two people when filtering on 2 separate occasions in 2 different towns :rollin
And for that, you win first prize :woot
Of course.......unless anyone knows different?? :rollin
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Acually cops do not have any word whatsoever on the legality of filtering. They can do you for dangerous driving, but again nothing to do with filtering per se which is perfectly legal.
London cops are pretty relaxed about filtering.
Anyway if there is an accident thankfully not the cops, but the court decides who is to blame :D
Yeah I know the courts decide but they put a report in and can deal with it on the spot if you wish to accept it and you could end up with a fine and points if you do. Lots of people would 'take the punishment' there and then to save the hassle of going to court.
Most Scottish cops I've seen when I've been filtering are ok about it too, unless your an idiot of course.
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Should a filtering 'accident' be reported by the Police and end up in court for whatever reason, and no dangerous, or due care definitions be breached, they will use 'stated cases' as previously mentioned.
However, there's a stated case that was proved last year which moved the goalposts in our favour for a change.
It's gone from 50/50 blame to I believe something like 25/75 in our favour!!!
Just don't do what the R6 rider did yesterday when I was taking my daughter on a driving lesson. He came flying past on a nsl B road at about 13,000rpm. He scared the shit out of both of us!
Just something else to be aware of when filtering is taking the cager by suprise. Most of them are blissfully aware your even there.
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Am I the only person to have knocked down two people when filtering on 2 separate occasions in 2 different towns :rollin
I don't know, but I did scare the $hit out of one idiot who thought that because two lanes of traffic were stopped, he could cross the road without bothering to check anything was coming, so got the fright of his life when I was filtering between them and gave him a blast on my horn!
(He wasn't in any danger because I'd already clocked him since I always look out for pillocks like that, but maybe it will teach him to be a bit more careful next time :) )
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When I did the BikeSafe they guy said the 20:20 law. Traffic no more that 20MPH and you no more that 20 faster than the traffic. I personally twist that to I won't do more that 40 max, so even if traffic doing 30 I'll still filter.