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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: darrsi on 10 June 2015, 06:28:50 pm
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Just rode the bike home from work, and at lower constant speeds I can only describe the bike as sounding like it was mildly shivering.
Open the throttle up and it responded absolutely fine, but to me something is not quite right, but I don't know what?
I balanced the carbs not so long ago and they were all good.
The only similar thing I've had before was when my TPS was gradually breaking down, but I just checked that and it pinged straight to 5K rpm so I'm a bit stumped, I don't even know where to begin?
Any ideas anyone?
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put a nice warm jumper on it , sorry, I'm not helping am I :o
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when you say shivvering....
Dull vibration of a definite small stutter???
Does it seem like a timing issue of a starvation issue, i.e. does it seem very ropey and un-responsive, appears no....or does it seem starved of something...i would geuss it is sturrling for air or fuel....for some reason....
anything been taken off and cleaned recently...
i thought i had killed my engine today, but turned out i forgot to put an ignition coil back on - the relief! :lol
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Not touched anything BUT the last 2 tanks had some STP Fuel System Cleaner in them, and I'm wondering if it's unsettled something then duly clogged something else up?
Imagine the sound of someone's mouth/jaw when they're really cold and shivering, it's a spot on description.
May just need a good blast, but I know my bike well by sound and right now it's just not right to me.
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Air filter due a clean or replacement ?
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Not touched anything BUT the last 2 tanks had some STP Fuel System Cleaner in them, and I'm wondering if it's unsettled something then duly clogged something else up?
Imagine the sound of someone's mouth/jaw when they're really cold and shivering, it's a spot on description.
May just need a good blast, but I know my bike well by sound and right now it's just not right to me.
Put it to bed, a warm blanket and some lemsip, it will be fine in the morning :lol :lol
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Air filter due a clean or replacement ?
K&N, the bike is only on around 45K in total, not entirely sure without checking when fitted but it shouldn't be that anyway.
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Still reminds me of when the TPS goes wrong, i've always known when it was about to go, but as i said it's not showing any physical signs yet so it's all a bit puzzling, although i still won't rule it out.
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Air filter due a clean or replacement ?
K&N, the bike is only on around 45K in total, not entirely sure without checking when fitted but it shouldn't be that anyway.
Why shouldn't it be that? Have you ever cleaned the filter since you fitted it? Always worth a check, also make sure your plug caps are tight on the leads. This would be just a start point.
What many do not realise is the the Sahara dust issues last year left many air filters requiring premature changing/cleaning.
I cleaned 2 K&N filters for 2 bikes used in the UK around that time and both had over 5mm of dust on the base of the filter box which was oil laden and going nowhere. The amount which came out of the filter was like they had ridden through a sand storm.
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Air filter due a clean or replacement ?
K&N, the bike is only on around 45K in total, not entirely sure without checking when fitted but it shouldn't be that anyway.
Why shouldn't it be that? Have you ever cleaned the filter since you fitted it? Always worth a check, also make sure your plug caps are tight on the leads. This would be just a start point.
What many do not realise is the the Sahara dust issues last year left many air filters requiring premature changing/cleaning.
I cleaned 2 K&N filters for 2 bikes used in the UK around that time and both had over 5mm of dust on the base of the filter box which was oil laden and going nowhere. The amount which came out of the filter was like they had ridden through a sand storm.
Okey doke, fair point, i'll have to take a look at that on Saturday. :thumbup
Bit more info for the record, did the same again this morning, most noticeably between 2000-3000rpm, but especially noticeable at 2500rpm.
Found a clear bit of road and gave it some welly, and it responded with no issues at all or spluttering, I went up to about 80mph in a few seconds without faltering, restricted feeling or any bad noises.
Yet when I ride around the 2500rpm mark it sounds more like a twin engine with quicker pulsing noises?
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Just a thought with the fuel cleaner in mind - at what revs does the 600 change over from pilot jets to main jets in the cars? Blocked idle jets ???
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Ahhhh Story of my life Darrsi,i have exactly the same prolems for months now,and i cant find a solution,neither any mechanic can...
Hope you will be lucky...
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Just a thought with the fuel cleaner in mind - at what revs does the 600 change over from pilot jets to main jets in the cars? Blocked idle jets ???
Forgot to mention, the idle is solid @ 1200rpm, no hunting at all.
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Just ordered K&N filter cleaner kit.
Ebay £8.71 delivered
Halfrauds £15.99 and you have to go and get it yourself. :rolleyes
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thanks god for ebay :b
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Ahhhh Story of my life Darrsi,i have exactly the same prolems for months now,and i cant find a solution,neither any mechanic can...
Hope you will be lucky...
Were the valve clearances ever checked?
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Ahhhh Story of my life Darrsi,i have exactly the same prolems for months now,and i cant find a solution,neither any mechanic can...
Hope you will be lucky...
Were the valve clearances ever checked?
20,000 miles ago
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What were the tolerances at the time, or were you told?
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What were the tolerances at the time, or were you told?
No mate, it was when I got the bike, had a load of things done.
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Just ordered K&N filter cleaner kit.
Ebay £8.71 delivered
Halfrauds £15.99 and you have to go and get it yourself. :rolleyes
Kit turned up at 11.30am next day, a decent Ebay seller for a change. :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
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So, finally got round to having a look at the air filter, and I was quite surprised at how dirty it was to be honest.
And when I took it out there was a bit of the old oily mayonnaise in there again.
Cleaned it all out and gave the K&N a good clean up with the recharge kit, then left it on my metal garage flip up door so the sun was shining directly on it to dry it out, then I oiled it.
Not tried the bike yet, I'll know if it's sorted things out on the way to work in the morning.
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make sure the breather pipes are free and not trapping when you fasten the tank back down
easily overlooked and can cause silly problems lol
get hold of the pipes and pull on them as you lower tank into position
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make sure the breather pipes are free and not trapping when you fasten the tank back down
easily overlooked and can cause silly problems lol
get hold of the pipes and pull on them as you lower tank into position
What breather pipes?
Only pipe I touched was the fuel pipe
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so what is the orange stuff, and why is it coming out of the fuel pipe, its not tango is it?
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make sure the breather pipes are free and not trapping when you fasten the tank back down
easily overlooked and can cause silly problems lol
get hold of the pipes and pull on them as you lower tank into position
What breather pipes?
Only pipe I touched was the fuel pipe
theres breather pipe at the back of tank goes down between frame and airbox then in between frame and engine and comes out underneath next to main stand
what happens is when you lower tank into place they fold up at back under tank
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one some of the newer models i think thats gone, like on mine, the pipes are not attached to the tank, but the holes rest into a fixed bowl the pipes are fitted to the underside, its fitted on top of the airbox and routes, so you can move your tank around and off with no concern for kinking....etc...
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Yep, what "anutz" said, no kinky pipes on my bike!
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so whats the orange stuff then?
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so what is the orange stuff, and why is it coming out of the fuel pipe, its not tango is it?
It's not coming out of the fuel pipe, if it was I would hazard a guess the bike would sound like a bucket of nuts and bolts.
I believe it's a mixture of moisture and oil that collects over time at the bottom of the air box.
This time wasn't too bad, when I first got the bike it was swimming in the stuff when I opened up the air box.
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These photo's were taken when I first got the bike.
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That gunk looks like an oil+water emulsion. Are you sure it's not coming out of the crankcase breather? Have you changed the oil recently, was that OK?
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Oil's recent and fine.
Last photos are seven years old.
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Crankcase breather pipes will be choked with oil emulsion over last 15 years or so. Clean it out from air box and take pipes off to clean them through. Be 15 years before need to do it again
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might give mine a little fettle see whats in them whilst i have the tank off.....
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Crankcase breather pipes will be choked with oil emulsion over last 15 years or so. Clean it out from air box and take pipes off to clean them through. Be 15 years before need to do it again
Air box is clean as a whistle now, but where exactly are the breather pipes you're on about?
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i`ll get a photo later
but you`ll have to tell how to upload it
never works when i try ??
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I'll give it a go too when I get home. Never tried putting a photo on here before so anything could happen
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When you've got your photo online, or on your phone, choose "Additional Options" underneath the box for writing in when you reply, then browse for your photo.
You do have to have something written as well, even if it's just a full stop.
Press "(more attachments)" if you want to send more than one photo. (up to 4 per post) :thumbup
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here is mine on a spare engine - the one with red dots on - i added them!
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/1aab908d-797a-49e7-b0d2-b033c4031e7c_zpsdzhjgcxk.jpg)
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When you've got your photo online, or on your phone, choose "Additional Options" underneath the box for writing in when you reply, then browse for your photo.
You do have to have something written as well, even if it's just a full stop.
Press "(more attachments)" if you want to send more than one photo. (up to 4 per post) :thumbup
pipes
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so they are they fuel breather and overflow i think???
the one i posted has the main crankase breather with red dots on it.....thats the one i think you are asking about???
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When you've got your photo online, or on your phone, choose "Additional Options" underneath the box for writing in when you reply, then browse for your photo.
You do have to have something written as well, even if it's just a full stop.
Press "(more attachments)" if you want to send more than one photo. (up to 4 per post) :thumbup
pipes
They're tank pipes which I said before my bike doesn't have, you must have an older model.
The one Anutz has shown is one, and the other is on the left side of the engine buried somewhere?
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I presume 31 & 33
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Pipes connect to both front bottom corners of the air box. If the pictures load in one of them you can see it between the idle adjuster screw and the clutch cable. The pipes connect to a T piece and then join the pipe coming out the top of the gearbox. There is a black plastic connector that has a piece of sponge in it that acts as a firetrap to stop you setting fire to the oil in the engine if the bike backfires through the air box.
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I presume 31 & 33
31 and the other pipes will be on airbox fiche. Don't recognise 33 it might be the tank breather for the later models
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Are you sure those 2 pipes either side of the air box are for crank case ventilation?
I thought they were for drainage?
I could swear a while ago i was told that somewhere on here as i asked what they were for...
i need to go look at my bike :lol
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I'm confused now.
You're now saying air box pipes, not crankcase?
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so there have been a few pipes mentioned...
Fuel Overflow
Fuel Breather
Crank Case Ventilation - i showed a pic of what i believe that to be, and the service manual only identifies one Crank Case Breather
The other 2 pipes that form a T coming from either side of the airbox and meet with a pipe from the gearbox i am not sure what they are for...i am sure they are just for venting the airbox and gearbox, not crankcase....
point is i am not aware of more than one crank case breather
clear as mud :rolleyes
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They connect the crankcase breather to the air box so any fumes/oil mist get sucked through the cylinders and burnt instead of dribbling out and leaving an oily puddle when you park the bike.
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OK to update....on my bike...
Crankcase Breather connect from the top of the crankcase to the Air Box directly - no joins to anything else
A hose from either side of the airbox meets in the middle with a T and then the resultant single hose goes over the transmission to a cage on the center stand where it is held and pointed downwards to drain
I have no sign of any hoses connected anywhere else - this is a 2001 FZS 600
Not sure how other people are configured
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Soooooo, what am I checking, the hoses from the airbox to see if they have any yellow snot clogging them up?
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the one i initially posted a pic of - the one i put red dots on - the crank case breather :lol
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https://www.YAMAHAmotorcyclespares.co.uk/genuineparts/9656/10/yamaha%20fzs%20600%20fazer/intake?uID=0 (https://www.YAMAHAmotorcyclespares.co.uk/genuineparts/9656/10/yamaha%20fzs%20600%20fazer/intake?uID=0)
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good find - exactly as mine is layed out
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24 is news to me, that MUST be clogged up?
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never looked into mine, i know its inline from the T piece that connects the pipes from the air box, i think its for allowing the air box to drain if it gets moisture in it...
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Mine must be full of yellow shit, meaning not breathing properly.
I need to change it then balance carbs again I reckon.
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the crank case breather or the T piece and the inline filter thing it has?
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That number 24 jobbie.
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Sorry for the confusion the airbox drain and engine breather pipes don't connect to each other. I was working from memory when I cleaned mine about 5 years ago and checked them both so had it in my mind they connected directly.
The 24 thing has a piece of sponge in it and this will be solid with oil gunge.
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Sorry for the confusion the airbox drain and engine breather pipes don't connect to each other. I was working from memory when I cleaned mine about 5 years ago and checked them both so had it in my mind they connected directly.
The 24 thing has a piece of sponge in it and this will be solid with oil gunge.
Just ordered one.
If it's totally clogged up then I'd imagine the pipes are too with the yellow stuff.
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i best check all mine at some point as well.....then carb balance as well
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Just ordered one.
If it's totally clogged up then I'd imagine the pipes are too with the yellow stuff.
I just cleaned old one out, I thought it was just sludge in it that's when I found it had bit of coarse sponge in it. I thought about leaving it empty when put it back together to reduce chance of it blocking again but decided to push a bit of sponge in it in case it sucked unfiltered gritty air up into the air box. I know it wouldn't be much but doesn't take much to damage the cylinder bores
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Just ordered one.
If it's totally clogged up then I'd imagine the pipes are too with the yellow stuff.
I just cleaned old one out, I thought it was just sludge in it that's when I found it had bit of coarse sponge in it. I thought about leaving it empty when put it back together to reduce chance of it blocking again but decided to push a bit of sponge in it in case it sucked unfiltered gritty air up into the air box. I know it wouldn't be much but doesn't take much to damage the cylinder bores
Wasn't sure what is was about so just ordered it anyway.
£15 for a sponge. :\
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OEM parts.....gold mines.....
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So i thought i'd have a quick inspection of the breather/drain pipes on the air box, and the first thing that sprang to mind was to gently blow into it to see if it was proper clogged up, but other than a very slight gurgle it was reasonably clear.
I couldn't get to the pipe towards the middle of the engine, as it was not only difficult but my engine was still hot, so i pulled it apart where the filter (number 24) joins the pipe attached to the t-piece.
A few drops of yellow goo dropped out, but nothing in comparison as to what i was expecting.
I let that drip for a while then used a few cotton buds to clean the inside of the pipe.
Then, i got a bucket of hot water and washing up liquid and rinsed the "filter" which is actually just a piece of plastic, so i've been totally mugged off ordering a new one.
Anyway it's all clean now so no harm done.
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Got a full refund from AJ Sutton for the so called filter (#24). :thumbup
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so has it cured the problem ??
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No. :'(
But I still need to balance the carbs again, I'm sure I had a false reading due to the dirty air filter as the bike's starting popping again, that tends to go away when balanced properly.
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So i just got round to balancing the carbs again and sure enough they were not level, even though I did them a few weeks ago.
I presume the combination of blocked drainage/breather pipes with emulsified oil from the air box, and a dirty K&N air filter gave me a false reading, so by freeing the airways and doing them again has resulted in much smoother running, and I also managed to get them much more level than I ever have before.
Mind you I had fun and games for a while as I had kinked the fuel pipe when turning the tank around so the readings were a bit iffy, then it ran like a pig and conked out.
Taken it for a spin and it feels much better and it would appear that my shivering sounding problem has gone as well. :)