old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: anutz on 30 May 2015, 02:53:30 pm
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:D
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A link to the ebay item i purchased as well : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201346306792?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201346306792?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
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...so a bargin and its in good condition...
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2ezqq7d.jpg)
Really? The pad guides are pretty worn. On good calipers the complete surface is flat.
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no idea pal - sorting other stuff out - will have a look later, i have to stop spending now so if they won't do the job will have to re-asses.....but they cannot be that bad?!
to be fair as well the pistons i thought were toast....well looking back, they would have worked ok aside from one.....so i am starting to err on the side of it does not have to be crystal perfect to work.....
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let me see what they look like after a clean....
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ok so you are right again - no idea if this will affect them - anyone have any idea - have i got 51£ of junk?
If so then how do i proceed....can you do anything to them?
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The pads can stick in the groove. I bought a pair of R1 front calipers and one of them had the same problem and I scraped it. On the auction pictures it was not possible to see it because the pads had been installed....
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:wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall
i seem to take one step forwards then 10 back..... :'(
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cam you fix this or not i.e. can they be smoothed out or machined in any way
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You can try to smooth it out but:
1) The pads will have more play in the guides which may leed to quick wear and negative effects on "brake feeling"
2) The surface of the R1 calipers is anodized to make them resistant to wear. You will loose that surface treatment. But like in your an my case this wear protection might be only something theoretical.
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hmmm....
a new caliper OEM is 300$ so 200£ - and to be honest i don't have much more patience left with it right now....MOT is June 12th...
I can only see old FZs600 ones one bay, that would most likely, have their own issues....
have emailed powerhouse performance to see what they think of them and if they have ever dealt with the guides being worn...
looks like its not the bargin it seemed....but then as you say, how can you tell with pads in :groan
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Why do you not buy in Germany?
This one looks good an shipping is to Europe:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-YZF-R1-RN01-RN04-Bremssattel-Bremszange-hinten-/131501069210?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item1e9e13139a (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-YZF-R1-RN01-RN04-Bremssattel-Bremszange-hinten-/131501069210?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item1e9e13139a)
some others with an unclear status:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Bremssattel-hinten-Yamaha-R1-RN01-RN04-rear-brake-caliper-/201298870866?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2ede590252 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Bremssattel-hinten-Yamaha-R1-RN01-RN04-rear-brake-caliper-/201298870866?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2ede590252)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-YZF-R1-RN01-RN04-Bremssattel-Bremszange-hinten-/131521412003?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item1e9f497ba3 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-YZF-R1-RN01-RN04-Bremssattel-Bremszange-hinten-/131521412003?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item1e9f497ba3)
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i cannot read german :b
Is that one you linked to OK from the looks of it and what the post says?
I shall try translate it....and check the exchange rate
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:wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall
i seem to take one step forwards then 10 back..... :'(
You could stop taking the step forward as a start point and that might help it :lol :lol :lol
The caliper, file it down a bit with a fine file to smooth it and it will be fine
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i am taking a step forward....i am learning german...
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Is that one you linked to OK from the looks of it and what the post says?
The seller says that it has scratches an that the condition is visible on the pictures.
And he says that if the item has damages it would be listed in the description.
The pad guides look o.k.
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OK so...
Thanks for the idea riedrider.....might need it IF filing them down does not work....i have to try that first...
Unfazed...i shall give it a bash...
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If you want to look for calipers yourself:
"Bremssattel hinten R1" or "Bremszange hinten R1" means "rear brake caliper R1"
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danke! :D
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Gern geschehen :)
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OK so...
Thanks for the idea riedrider.....might need it IF filing them down does not work....i have to try that first...
Unfazed...i shall give it a bash...
It is more important to have good unpitted guide pins as pads use these to slide within the caliper and wear on the caliper body is more often due to worn corroded guide pins and/or poor fitting spurious brake pads.
Any sign of pitting on the guide pins which cannot be cleaned or removed, means they should be replaced. The guide pins are rarely replaced and when they wear it exacerbates the wear on the caliper body.
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ok thanks unfazed, sure enough there are some wear marks on these, but i can pick up some new ones easily...
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http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-5LV-25924-00-00.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-5LV-25924-00-00.html)
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have had a go a cleaning them and with a tad of wet and dry they have come up nicely - smooth enough as well....so it looks like it was just a layer of rubbish..
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The caliper should still work but you might hear a bit of a clunk when you hit the brakes because the pads will have a bit of movement
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i will look at the pad guides tommorow night i suspect - then re-assemble and bleed then see if they work ok...
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the rear R1 bluespot have the same piston diameters as the fzs600 standard caliper.
I know the pads mount differently, from the bottom leaving the caliper more open to remove water/road crap, but if the pistons are the same it won't affect brake feel at all.
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hi, i think the FZS1000 caliper i have put on has larger bore pistons, than the FZS600 stock one - i am not 100% sure, main reason for the change was my rear caliper was in appauling condiiton
Be careful with R1 calipers, i do not think they transfer, they look identical but are different, i know that XJR1300 ones can be used in some cases
I am sure a few on here will comment when they see this so could confirm the pistons are the same or not....
If i get time i will look as they are both in the garage
I suspect you will get different feel and performance as thats one other reason people upgrade, but i literally had no choice and did not see any well conditioned FZs600 ones on ebay
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Have a read of this...
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=942.0 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=942.0)
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The FZS1000 rear caliper pistons are 5mm larger in diameter, 43mm as opposed to the 600 at 38mm.
However the important bit here would be the master cylinder, but the master cylinder on the 600 and the 1000 are exactly the same part number 4BP-2583V-01.
With the 1000 rear caliper on the 600 you will have the same braking setup as on the the 1000 and a caliper less prone to seizing :) :thumbup
For info. This master cylinder was first used on the Japanese only market XJ400 and is used across many bikes in the Yamaha range
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the rear R1 bluespot have the same piston diameters as the fzs600 standard caliper.
I know the pads mount differently, from the bottom leaving the caliper more open to remove water/road crap, but if the pistons are the same it won't affect brake feel at all.
You are correct the pistons in the R1 rear Bluespot are also 38mm diameter
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the rear R1 bluespot have the same piston diameters as the fzs600 standard caliper.
I know the pads mount differently, from the bottom leaving the caliper more open to remove water/road crap, but if the pistons are the same it won't affect brake feel at all.
You are correct the pistons in the R1 rear Bluespot are also 38mm diameter
I thought so.
As a patternmaker, I was planning to make a new bracket to fit the R1 bluespot onto the fzs600 as I know they don't fit the standard bracket. However, on finding out they were the same piston diameter, and realising you're not really gaining much, other than being less prone to seizing I decided not to bother.
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so been at the caliper with a file and a little wet and dry, just took the lips off and its nice and smooth now, old pads seem to fit ok with not a shocking ammount of play, waiting for new ones to arrive...
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/006_zpsj3jfx4tp.jpg)
(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy120/antz15/008_zpsanoso7wm.jpg)
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Nearly look as clean and smooth as your office hands anutz ;)
Well done mate :)
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Nearly look as clean and smooth as your office hands anutz ;)
Well done mate :)
:agree
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Just looking at re-aligning the back wheel and then will fix the caliper in place again.....so almost there - need to add some pics of the alignent once i have the wheel sorted...
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OK so i may have an issue...
The 2 pistons - should they retarct FULLY and sit flush with the caliper internal surfaces with the bleed nipple loosed off one each chamber...
I suspect they should as all my front ones did - anyone comment..
If so this might be something i need to look into as right no i doubt i would be able to get the pads in and seat the caliper....they both are about 2mm proud when fully retracted...???
will try to pump them out a little them push them back in anyway...
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I suspect they should as all my front ones did - anyone comment..
If the protrusion is equal on both sides it might be normal for this type of caliper.
You can measure the gap between the pistons and the thickness of pads and brake disk and easily calculate if it will fit.
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Yes they are mate.........................
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Every home mechanic needs one of these!!!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-DISC-PISTON-PAD-SPREADER-SEPARATOR-BRAKE-CALIPER-CAR-HEAVY-DUTY-44977401-/271521429797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f37f03925 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-DISC-PISTON-PAD-SPREADER-SEPARATOR-BRAKE-CALIPER-CAR-HEAVY-DUTY-44977401-/271521429797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f37f03925)
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Every home mechanic needs one of these!!!
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-DISC-PISTON-PAD-SPREADER-SEPARATOR-BRAKE-CALIPER-CAR-HEAVY-DUTY-44977401-/271521429797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f37f03925[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-DISC-PISTON-PAD-SPREADER-SEPARATOR-BRAKE-CALIPER-CAR-HEAVY-DUTY-44977401-/271521429797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f37f03925[/url])
Looks a good bit of kit, but I just use two small bits of wood or plastic, and a screwdriver or such to push them back in.
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I got this one:
https://www.louis.de/en/artikel/rothewald-disc-brake/10003009?filter_article_number=10003009 (https://www.louis.de/en/artikel/rothewald-disc-brake/10003009?filter_article_number=10003009)
A little bit more expensive but it works fine and I bought it during a 20% off sales promotion ;)
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Easy to use as well, save my wee knuckles next time me thinks ;)
https://youtu.be/8MZ33PEVeUk
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I think for bikes the blades are to thick. I always use the thin ones of my tool because in most cases the thicker won´t fit.
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OK so one pistons i have sorted out - moves fine now and nice and clean, sits flush etc...
the other will not budge a bit, and one strange observation, if i take the bleed nipple out of the side that WILL seat flush, then pump air in it whistles out the nipple...
Do the same on the other side, NOTHING...
Not messing with it anymore, sending it to powerhouse for a service hopefully they can sort it out
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I think for bikes the blades are to thick. I always use the thin ones of my tool because in most cases the thicker won´t fit.
Your probably right, was just showing the idea really :)
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the other will not budge a bit, and one strange observation, if i take the bleed nipple out of the side that WILL seat flush, then pump air in it whistles out the nipple...
Don't understand why your saying 'pump air in'?
Should be brake fluid that's in there :)
Have you pushed the pistons back far enough to fit over your pads? Then bleed the brakes?
Do the same on the other side, NOTHING...
As above really, I don't understand what your trying to do?
Not messing with it anymore, sending it to powerhouse for a service hopefully they can sort it out
Don't send it yet till you've tried to sort it, will be something simple, take a step back and think it over.
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Do the same on the other side, NOTHING...
Maybe the bleeder hole in the caliper is clogged.
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OK so here is what i did ....
Close both bleed nipples...
Use compressed air blown in the brake fluid hole to push out the pistons - piece of material in the disc slot to stop them popping out initially...
Left one moves, right one not a jot of movement...
Left one i can remove and looks fine, and can easily re-seat
Right one just no movement...
I also did a test, open the Left bleed nipple and with the piston ALL the way recessed in air passes to the bleed screw, no such luck on the second piston, no idea what it means....
tried all sorts...
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OK so here is what i did ....
Close both bleed nipples...
Use compressed air blown in the brake fluid hole to push out the pistons - piece of material in the disc slot to stop them popping out initially...
Left one moves, right one not a jot of movement...
Left one i can remove and looks fine, and can easily re-seat
Right one just no movement...
I also did a test, open the Left bleed nipple and with the piston ALL the way recessed in air passes to the bleed screw, no such luck on the second piston, no idea what it means....
tried all sorts...
So the pistons are dry at the moment?
If so, before you do the air test, the one that moves ok, put a thicker block in there so it's less to move, better still if it can't move, smaller bit in piston that won't move at the moment, then try the air again.
I'm thinking that the air is only giving good enough pressure to push out one piston, so needs to be directed to one piston only. Can you pull that piston out by hand or turn it at all? Is it free to move I mean?
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no luck its stuck.....
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going to connect it to the rear line and see if i can use the brake pressure to push it out... :b
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PROGRESS....so refitted the brake line to the rear and the pressue pushed out the stuck piston - the dust seal was warped and chewed up but the piston is in good condition and so have ordered a new seal kit to put in.....
As you hinted Sinto not enough pressure from the footbal pump....
Looking promising again - also have some 0.5mm washer to sort the alignemnt out on the caliper as 1.25mm seems to take it too far back to center and offline again...
shall hopefully eventually post final pics etc :D
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PROGRESS....so refitted the brake line to the rear and the pressue pushed out the stuck piston - the dust seal was warped and chewed up but the piston is in good condition and so have ordered a new seal kit to put in.....
Better this than sending it away at more cost :)
As you hinted Sinto not enough pressure from the footbal pump....
Football pump? No wonder it wasn't moving :lol
But guess it would of moved if the seal was ok :)
Looking promising again - also have some 0.5mm washer to sort the alignemnt out on the caliper as 1.25mm seems to take it too far back to center and offline again...
shall hopefully eventually post final pics etc :D
Hurry up man, we've been waiting on more pics ;)
And your missing riding time :pokefun but then you've still to test it all for its MOT :( sure it'll sail through with all the foccin work you've done
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as a side project i dug out the old caliper - now that i understand more about them i think i can clean it up nicely.....will need re-painting so will post some pics of that as i go....
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I wander if anyone can answer my query....all i have left to do it bleed the rear brake....however in thought i would just check the torque on the banjo bolts and it raised a point...
There a "Projections" on the Master Cylinders and Calipers, front and rear, not just specific to this one i am fitting....
In the Service Manuals it highlights the importance of contact being made with these prjections when tightening the banjo bolts...
This is something that is making me have to carefully consider HOW i do this with the bluespot rear i have as the standard hose does not seem to "reach", but i am looking at putting a braided hose i have on, still i need to know the importance of the "projections"...
Thanks
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The projections should prevent the brake lines from spinning around when you tighten the banjo bolts.
If you can apply the specified torque to the bolts and you can keep the lines in place (maybe with cloth wrapped pliers) everything is fine.
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My 2p worth :)
That sounds like it's only to do with the original pipes and not the braided as it's in the manual, they wouldn't be talking about upgrades I wouldn't imagine.
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If you have good braided lines then the fittings are the same like original and the projections should fit.
Here are braided lines from Melvin on my ex-blue spot calipers. The projection is marked with yellow arrow:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/dg40mq.jpg)
Problems might occur if a caliper is from another bike. Then you can use custom made lines with the right fittings for the caliper.
Examples for fittings on page 4:
http://media.melvin.de/Infoseiten/Sonderbestellungen.pdf (http://media.melvin.de/Infoseiten/Sonderbestellungen.pdf)
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The difference is slight between the angle of the Banjo insertion on between the Bluespot Rear i have put on versus the OEM caliper....but it IS enough based on what i have been messing with to stop the projection being adhered to..
Will do some more playing tonight and see if it CAN fit correctly....if not may need to contact HEL and ask them for a longer rear hose and also account for the custom caliper i am fitting....
It is not miles off just too tight to be comfortable, and i am not going to force anything when its related to braking...
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The protrusion as you call them are there to prevent the banjo moving when tightening the banjo bolt. Locate the best position for the banjo with least strain on the hose. Place a piece of metal or a small nut in between the protrusion and the banjo and tighten banjo bolt to the correct torque. :thumbup
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The protrusion as you call them are there to prevent the banjo moving when tightening the banjo bolt. Locate the best position for the banjo with least strain on the hose. Place a piece of metal or a small nut in between the protrusion and the banjo and tighten banjo bolt to the correct torque. :thumbup
Thanks for that Unfazed, shall take a look later tonight...
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OK got it on and updated my origonal post, looks ok and stops the wheel dead so happy for now....watching the bleed nipples again...seem to be doing nothing but watching nipples right now.... :lol
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OK got it on and updated my origonal post, looks ok and stops the wheel dead so happy for now....watching the bleed nipples again...
Well done :thumbup
seem to be doing nothing but watching nipples right now.... :lol
:bobby you could get locked up for that if you get caught :pokefun