old - Fazer Owners Club - old

Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: phil on a fazer on 09 February 2012, 06:07:17 pm

Title: oil filter?
Post by: phil on a fazer on 09 February 2012, 06:07:17 pm: How doooo

I normally change my oil and filter every 3k (i buy Motul 5100 and a filter in a pack off ebay).

while looking for filters (as i already have oil This time) i found the K&N ones (http://www.intobikes.co.uk/products/001076/003194/K-and-N-Oil-Filter-suitable-for-Yamaha-FZS1000-Fazer-2003?mn=22&pt=186&bf=1&st=mn&sf=price). any one used one? there are more expensive but are they worth it....or would it be an idea to change the filter every 2nd oil change? (so 6K)

thoughts?
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: Slaninar on 09 February 2012, 07:46:38 pm: I wouldn't risk it for a small saving of a filter cost, so change filter on every oil change. I also think HiFlo is good enough.

I am a bit curious:
Why 3k oil changes? I thought those 1000 cc engines are good enough for 4, or even 6 k mile changes?

Would Motul 7100 (full synth) and 5 k oil changes be simpler and cheaper?
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: tomlinscote on 09 February 2012, 08:43:00 pm: mmm I was lead to believe that using fully synth oil on a fazer was a bad idea and would lead to clutch slip??
Personally I use semi-synth and change both oil and filter once a year - which equates to between 3 and 5 thou miles, bike runs just lovely and the old oil looks pretty clean, at least compared to my diesel van's :).
Cheers
P
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: The Male Whale on 09 February 2012, 11:01:47 pm: Clean oil? Great! :\

Wouldn't you prefer to see the oil dirty and full of all the crap that your engine produces rather than lovely clean oil and a dirty engine??

Sorry, bit of a hobby horse of mine - clean oil coming out is either not in there long enough or not doing the job it is there for.

Think about it....

Whale
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: Falcon 269 on 10 February 2012, 07:15:44 am: Quote from: tomlinscote on 09 February 2012, 08:43:00 pm
I was lead to believe that using fully synth oil on a fazer was a bad idea and would lead to clutch slip??
Personally I use semi-synth and change both oil and filter once a year ...

Fully synth bike-specific oil will not cause clutch slip. It does not contain the friction modifiers present in some car oils which do affect wet clutches.

Likewise, if you know what you're shopping for and what to avoid, you can run bike engines with wet clutches on fully synth auto oils. Basically, avoid any such oils labelled Energy Conserving and/or with high temp viscosity lower
than 30. So, for example, 0w30 = bad idea. 0w40 or 10w/40 or 5w/50 etc etc = OK.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: phil on a fazer on 10 February 2012, 08:36:47 am: Quote from: The Male Whale on 09 February 2012, 11:01:47 pm
Clean oil? Great! :\

Wouldn't you prefer to see the oil dirty and full of all the crap

no. the point of my regular(ish) oil changes is that i dont want "crap" in the oil flying round my engine (i do know what you mean though :) ). Oil change every 3K was a bit incorrect really (sorry), its more 3.5 - 4k....depending on what the bike has been up to (or should i say the rider? :) )

Slaninair: yeah ive always used HiFlo filters.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: Strifae on 10 February 2012, 08:49:25 am: I'm fairly sure the K&N oil filter IS a HiFlo filter with a nut on it and the branding (read it somewhere)
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: ghostbiker on 10 February 2012, 09:34:00 am: i tend to change oil and filter each year to, but as the bike is only used for pleasure and running around now i dont have a car, the mileage tends to be around 4-5k.

I either use OE filters or HiFlo depending on how flush i feel at the time.
If i got a good price on a KnN (as in very close to HiFlo prices) i would be happy to use one. It wouldnt supprise me if KnN hiflo and others use the same filter inners and just have diff shells. lets face it a filter isnt realy hitec lol
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: tomlinscote on 10 February 2012, 11:29:04 am: I stand (in the corner with the D cap) corrected! ;)

Cheers

P
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: kebab19 on 10 February 2012, 01:03:03 pm: Hi-flo oil filter is good enough...I change it every time with oil change once a year, which usually works out around 4000 miles. You're just paying for the K&N name

As for oil....few years back I had the misfortune of having to change the engine's waterpump, so had to drop the sump pan. I can tell you now that no matter how much oil you drain from the engine when doing a regular oil change there's still a *helluva* lot left inside.
If you don't change the filter along with the oil you're leaving over a litre of the original oil in there, so it wont matter how superb your new oil is, it'll get contaminated with the old stuff....right away. Unless you get a flushing agent or some other way of getting the old stuff out.

Of course, if you're using your new wonder oil several times in succession then that'll be fine

Agree with the Male Whale....oil *will* change colour, becoming darker no matter what, particularly when it has to work harder in the Winter. Golden oil doesnt guarantee engine protection indefinately
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: tommyteeman on 10 February 2012, 03:05:20 pm: my service reads like yours phil, 3k changes with new filter every 6k, my Aprilia sxv gets fully synth every 3hours :eek
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: phil on a fazer on 10 February 2012, 05:06:52 pm: i used to work with a chap who was a high up engineer at Rover and his brother was an even higher up engineer who had worked for everyone...BMW, Land Rover....and so on. They and their kids had raced bikes and cars and they were all total petrol heads....and not to mention highly qualified and experienced engineers.

They always used to say the most important thing you can do for any engine is feed it decent oil regularly. If money and time wasn't so important they would change the oil in their bikes weekly......but money and time is important so that would be ridiculous 8) (unless your a race team)
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 February 2012, 05:54:22 pm: Best not to use fully synth on low mileage bikes as you can risk bore polishing and then burning oil (apparently).

12,000 miles is the usual figure quoted, by which time the piston rings should be fully bedded in.

I change the oil every year whether it needs it or not, and semi-synth is just fine by me.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: ghostbiker on 10 February 2012, 06:05:37 pm: Everyone and thier dog has views on oils, most of them seem to know some one that is someone in the trade/race team/oil expert etc and its rare ppl ever agree.
One thing i think most if not everyone agrees on is regular changes is the most important thing.
everything else comes down to cost, time and personal views.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: bludclot on 12 February 2012, 09:02:52 am: i wonder how many different oils there are - really. i bet that there's many more different oil containers than factory end products - so i'm guessing that some of us are paying for our favourite brand name on the tub and the same oil inside as the next tub on the shelf that's 'less' branded.

experience tells me that some engines discolour their oils and some don't. when i've bought well - an obviously looked after and cared for low mileage vehicle - the oil tends to stay clean.....

as for (theoretical) weeekly oil changes i'm not convinced. for every up there's a down - once new oil is in after a drain and the engine started there's always that first second or two where's there's insufficient oil to keep everything quiet before the pump re-fills and sufficient pressure returns to fire oil up into the top of the engine again. this can't be good.

i use rock oil guardian for my bikes, i like it. but it's only really important to me at change time, the rest of the year while starting and using the bike i don't give the engine oil a second thought!
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: dickturpin on 12 February 2012, 12:51:21 pm: Interestingly I can't remember seeing in the owners manual that semi synthetic is necessary. It does give a grading that the cheaper mineral oils achieve. I assume the gust at Yamaha know best.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: dickturpin on 12 February 2012, 01:25:26 pm: Extract from owners manual......
[/font]
Engine oil:[/b][/font]
Type:
SAE10W30 or SAE10W40 or SAE15W40
or SAE20W40 or SAE20W50
Recommended engine oil grade:

API service SE, SF, SG type or higher

I acquired some Castrol bike mineral oil graded as 'SG' so I'm assuming thats fine based on a 3k oil change interval.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: Phil TK on 12 February 2012, 05:09:38 pm: Oil threads are always interesting because very few people actually give a reason why they prefer one oil over another. Logically you'd only refrain from using a particular oil in favour of another if you'd experienced engine damage because the oil failed (are there other reasons?). How many people have experienced engine damage they could put down to a particular oil?
I've used Castrol GTX (a mineral oil) in my Fazer without mishap and would use it again no trouble (it is up to spec for the engine) but I now use Halfords semi-synth -because it is almost as cheap mainly, but also partly because it's fashionable - I have to admit.
I have actually experienced engine failure due to bad oil in the distant past, on my XS250 a valve seized taking out the valve gear and blew a hole in the rocker cover. The oil? that was actually Castrol GTX in fact, but the XS was a hack and the oil hadn't been changed for at least 20,000 miles. I think that illustrates the greater importance of regular changes, I don't think the brand or type of oil (synth, semi or mineral) is really an issue as long as it has the right spec.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: nettshubby on 12 February 2012, 05:59:17 pm: Like you say, every one has a view on oil type/ brand/ colour/ grade etc, ad infinitum!
There`s a little tale I have told on a couple of forums in the past. I bought a Jaguar XJ 6 3.2 a couple of years ago (don`t reply on this as it`s irrevalent), but I did my usual oil filter change on a new vehicle and put correct grade of Castrol semi synth in.
Now the point, after just this oil change, I got 20 miles more from half a tank of fuel than before the change.
If nothing else, this shows you can`t say what the previous owner used in the vehicle, hence I always change the oil in anything I buy as a matter of course!
Ray.
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: cable tie on 12 February 2012, 11:25:54 pm: ive trawled that many forums regarding what oil for bikes to use ive lost count, motorcar oil is 100% usable if you no what to avoid as per mike's (falcon) post and its probably half the price as well, its all label branding making as much money out of you for owning a bike its bo11ox, lets face it if the big brand names told you car oil can be used for motorbikes as well !! would you buy the one £10 cheaper! the sale of bike spec oil is huge business and big profit most bike branded oil is a £10 more and with more frequent changes than a car means you spend 4x as much.

The chaps across the pond (us) run car oil's in there fazer's without issues and there is plenty running fully syn bike spec oil as well as myself .

:)
Title: Re: oil filter?
Post by: Falcon 269 on 13 February 2012, 05:39:01 pm: I ran a Volvo 240 estate for nearly a quarter of a million miles on Castrol GTX. Never burned a drop to the day I sold it. That said, the oil got changed every 5k miles.

I like to take advantage of the technology in modern semi and fully synthetic oils, mostly the fact that they retain their viscosity at operating temps better and for many thousands of miles more than mineral oils.

Still change the Fazer oil every 4k miles, though. :)