Post by: jonest27 on 03 March 2015, 05:17:48 pm
All of them are reading 10,000 regardless of how much I adjust them.
I did exactly what the manual says. Warm the bike up, set the idle to between 1150 and 1250.
It wont budge from that 10,000 mark.
I've even tried turning the idle right down (3 - 4 turns more) just incase where the idle is is whats causing the 10000 reading.
I just dont get it.
Is there anything else I can change / adjust to see if I can get it to lower from the 10,000 mark?
Thanks
Post by: Ebme Geek on 03 March 2015, 05:52:00 pm
Post by: jonest27 on 03 March 2015, 05:55:48 pm
I assume your rev counter works properly when it is connected normaly, and gives sensible indication of engine speed, if so check the condition of the conections on the Ignitor module and check the continuity of the three wires, think they are Blue, Yellow & Black with Blue stripeHiya, yep, tacho works fine normally. The ignitor module, is that the CDI unit?
Post by: Paulfzs on 03 March 2015, 06:09:05 pm
then undo the 2 screws and very very slowly move it... like just under a mm very slowly and watch the tacho to see if it moves at all.
if you go too fast and skip past it then the tacho wont move.
it really does have to be minute adjustments.
Post by: jonest27 on 03 March 2015, 06:16:16 pm
unplug tps, switch ignition on, plug in tps
then undo the 2 screws and very very slowly move it... like just under a mm very slowly and watch the tacho to see if it moves at all.
if you go too fast and skip past it then the tacho wont move.
it really does have to be minute adjustments.
I thought that if they are at 10, 000 and I moved it passed the "sweet spot" then it would jump to 0.
I have tried moving them really slow,( I've even put them on backwards and then turning them) but it just sit's at 10,000
Post by: Ebme Geek on 03 March 2015, 06:16:42 pm
As your RPM's show ok it means the tacho and connection back to the ignitor module seem ok, so either you have a pile of duff sensors or the only other bits its likely to be are the wiring back to the ignitor or the module itself
hope that helps
Post by: Paulfzs on 03 March 2015, 06:23:04 pm
keep it the propper way and do it superr gently, where abouts are you? profile doesnt state location.
Post by: darrsi on 03 March 2015, 06:25:44 pm
I hate to say it but if they are then there is that small chance they could all be faulty, seeing as how old they are and the fact they are prone to be faulty.
My bike is on its 3rd one now.
You need to try one that you know for sure is good and working correctly, but that's obviously a bit of a tricky one unfortunately.
Post by: jonest27 on 03 March 2015, 06:28:45 pm
you need to understand, they are VERY sensitive, a fag paper would set it wrong.
keep it the propper way and do it superr gently, where abouts are you? profile doesnt state location.
Really?! That sensitive? Thats crazy, I noticed they're all a bit rusty on the metal bits inside the holes, would that make any difference?
I'm in south Wales
Post by: jonest27 on 03 March 2015, 06:31:45 pm
I'm presuming they're all used ones?Hiya Darrsi!
I hate to say it but if they are then there is that small chance they could all be faulty, seeing as how old they are and the fact they are prone to be faulty.
My bike is on its 3rd one now.
You need to try one that you know for sure is good and working correctly, but that's obviously a bit of a tricky one unfortunately.
Yea, they're all used ones.
Don't wanna believe they're all faulty otherwise it's just wasted money :(
Not much chance of getting one that I know is working I guess unless I bite the bullet and buy a new one, but at £165 don't really wanna do that.
andy chance that it could be that the idle/throttle cables/choke affecting it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 03 March 2015, 06:53:15 pm
I'm presuming they're all used ones?Hiya Darrsi!
I hate to say it but if they are then there is that small chance they could all be faulty, seeing as how old they are and the fact they are prone to be faulty.
My bike is on its 3rd one now.
You need to try one that you know for sure is good and working correctly, but that's obviously a bit of a tricky one unfortunately.
Yea, they're all used ones.
Don't wanna believe they're all faulty otherwise it's just wasted money :(
Not much chance of getting one that I know is working I guess unless I bite the bullet and buy a new one, but at £165 don't really wanna do that.
andy chance that it could be that the idle/throttle cables/choke affecting it?
possibly, when its at 5000 if you twist the throttle it goes to 10,000
Post by: jonest27 on 03 March 2015, 08:29:37 pm
moved all 3 tps's a slowly as possible needle didnt move an inch, loosened throttle cable, turned down idle and tried again.
Running out of ideas here :(
Post by: Paulfzs on 03 March 2015, 08:51:16 pm
did you get off ebay?
did the seller say they work
Post by: jonest27 on 03 March 2015, 08:56:22 pm
Post by: darrsi on 03 March 2015, 08:57:03 pm
Then unplug the TPS.
Does the needle alternate between 0rpm and 3000rpm?
Post by: darrsi on 03 March 2015, 08:59:26 pm
One is the original off my bike, one is off Ebay (seller said it 's off a running bike) and the third on is from a bike breakers near me.
May have been a running bike, but that's not to say they didn't realise their TPS could've been faulty.
Same with a breakers, if you tell them it doesn't work they just generally change things for you.
You may just be unlucky. :'(
Post by: jonest27 on 04 March 2015, 01:19:04 am
One is the original off my bike, one is off Ebay (seller said it 's off a running bike) and the third on is from a bike breakers near me.
May have been a running bike, but that's not to say they didn't realise their TPS could've been faulty.
Same with a breakers, if you tell them it doesn't work they just generally change things for you.
You may just be unlucky. :'(
I guess I'll just have to at some point bite the bullet and get a new one or find someone with a working one.
If I got a new one and still cant get it to 5000, what would the next step be?
Post by: Paulfzs on 04 March 2015, 01:39:22 am
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Large_bonfire.jpg)
Post by: jonest27 on 04 March 2015, 02:29:26 am
See, I'm not even sure that I care that much about the tps.
The bike runs, it has a few issues, but it'll still get me from A - B.
It's just the fact that I know it's not set up right, makes me want to sort it to know how it would run if it was sorted.
My biggest problem with the bike is a loud grinding/crunching noise that it gets intermittently when riding slowy that causes the bike to jerk (almost like the brakes are causing it) but I serviced the brakes recently and made sure that they weren't binding so I doubt thats it.
If anyone wants to have a stab a whats causing that then that'll help.
Post by: slappy on 04 March 2015, 03:03:58 am
Post by: jonest27 on 04 March 2015, 03:05:26 am
The loud grinding/ crunching noise is probably your chain. Clean it, inspect for tight spots, adjust it correctly and lube it. Also check your sprockets are in good condition.Pretty much a brand new chain and sprocket set. Less than 500 miles on them...
Post by: darrsi on 04 March 2015, 06:29:48 am
Post by: Paulfzs on 04 March 2015, 02:40:46 pm
Does the needle alternate between 0rpm and 3000rpm when the TPS is unplugged?
Post by: jonest27 on 04 March 2015, 04:41:16 pm
Does the needle alternate between 0rpm and 3000rpm when the TPS is unplugged?Yup, all of them do this
Post by: Ebme Geek on 04 March 2015, 05:48:46 pm
First of all, this is how mine show up as ok on the tacho, pic taken this morning before I went to work
TPS Tacho 5k |
First lesson learnt - > This is ok and in the acceptable range, drop below the range and the needle drops straight to '0', be a fraction above the range and it jumps straight to '10'; so I should not have touched it :rolleyes
Second lesson - > The adjustment is very sensitive and easy to move as you tighten the screws.
Anyway back to the main bit - >
The TPS is just a potentiometer so first check the track resistance, Haynes spec this as 5 KΩ +/- 1.5kΩ
I used some test clips to get onto the two outer contacts
TPS Track resistance |
Then I checked the resistance from one end of the track to the 'wiper', this at idle position
TPS res Idle |
Then at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) position
TPS res WOT |
The actual figures may vary quite a bit, hell the tolerance on the track is +/- 30%.
But another important bit is that as you move the throttle from idle to WOT the reading should smoothly and consistently change, there should not be any drop-outs or blips, this is a little easier to see with an analogue meter (that is one with a needle)
And finally just to show the wires
TPS wires |
Post by: darrsi on 04 March 2015, 06:26:05 pm
Does the needle alternate between 0rpm and 3000rpm when the TPS is unplugged?Yup, all of them do this
Then surely that means the info is getting to your clock in the correct manner meaning the system is working but your TPS collection isn't. :'(
Post by: jonest27 on 04 March 2015, 09:44:08 pm
Does the needle alternate between 0rpm and 3000rpm when the TPS is unplugged?Yup, all of them do this
Then surely that means the info is getting to your clock in the correct manner meaning the system is working but your TPS collection isn't. :'(
I'm beginning to think this too.
But also I'm wondering if my actual throttle position is wrong somehow and that's what's giving the 10,000 reading. Maybe the TPS's are reporting what they are seeing. I'm just unsure how/what to adjust throttle-wise to see if that moves the needle.
Any ideas?
Post by: darrsi on 04 March 2015, 10:55:16 pm
Make sure you have the right one, they'll normally mark them.
Post by: jonest27 on 05 March 2015, 12:40:16 am
Contact the breakers and say it's faulty.Yea I could take it back there, that wouldn't be an issue, but it's the only one they had so won't get a replacement
Make sure you have the right one, they'll normally mark them.
Post by: Paulfzs on 05 March 2015, 03:09:41 am
Post by: jonest27 on 05 March 2015, 03:53:13 am
know anyone nearby with a 100% working one?I only know 1 other person with a Fazer but havent seen him for a while since he moved jobs. I emailed him about it but havent heard back yet.
Post by: Paulfzs on 05 March 2015, 11:06:33 am
try using the members map to see if anyone's nearby
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=7685 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=7685)
^^^ richard is breaking a fazer, maybe itll be worth asking if he can test the tps on the one hes breaking see if he can get 5000 and ask kindly if he will post it out to you if you pay postage to test it then either post it back or buy it if it works for you?
if it works > you have 3 broken tps's
if it doesnt work> other bike issue.
Post by: jonest27 on 05 March 2015, 08:08:33 pm
where abouts are you?
try using the members map to see if anyone's nearby
[url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=7685[/url] ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=7685[/url])
^^^ richard is breaking a fazer, maybe itll be worth asking if he can test the tps on the one hes breaking see if he can get 5000 and ask kindly if he will post it out to you if you pay postage to test it then either post it back or buy it if it works for you?
if it works > you have 3 broken tps's
if it doesnt work> other bike issue.
Cheers for this, I didnt even think of checking the member map.
There are 2 guys quite close to me. I'll message them and see if they can help.
I'll also send a message to the guy you mentioned and see if he can help.
Post by: darrsi on 05 March 2015, 08:27:15 pm
Post by: unfazed on 05 March 2015, 08:48:10 pm
Set the TPS to test mode (disconnecting reconnecting with ignition on).
Remove the TPS screws/bolts completely
Rotate the TPS until it can be set to 5000
Check the location of the screw/bolt holes in relation to the screw/bolt holes on the carburettor.
If holes are way off way off or you cannot set it to 5000 change the TPS. :thumbup
Post by: jonest27 on 05 March 2015, 09:06:54 pm
My money's still on 3 dodgy TPS units.
Methinks you're right,
Just spoke to a mate of mine (the guy I mentioned earlier) his is at 10,000 too, he's gonna try and adjust it at the weekend, if he is able then I'll try it on mine and we'll know for sure.
Post by: jonest27 on 05 March 2015, 09:08:18 pm
There is a very simple test to check if the TPS is outside the spec if you cannot get it to move from 10000.
Set the TPS to test mode (disconnecting reconnecting with ignition on).
Remove the TPS screws/bolts completely
Rotate the TPS until it can be set to 5000
Check the location of the screw/bolt holes in relation to the screw/bolt holes on the carburettor.
If holes are way off way off or you cannot set it to 5000 change the TPS. :thumbup
Hiya,
I've tried this. I can't get it to move at all, whether it's got the screws in it or not, no matter how much I rotate it, it still stays at 10,000
Post by: Ebme Geek on 05 March 2015, 09:13:44 pm
but also I remember what you said -
I thought that if they are at 10, 000 and I moved it passed the "sweet spot" then it would jump to 0.
I have tried moving them really slow,( I've even put them on backwards and then turning them) but it just sit's at 10,000
and you said all three were the same, have you checked the connections to the ignitor module yet ?
If you have a meter, or could get one, really would be interested to know what resistance measurements you got off the three sensors like I put in reply #24, or just turning the centre without them on the bike.
Post by: jonest27 on 05 March 2015, 09:18:39 pm
Darrsi may be right, 3x duff, and agree with unfazed, would have thought at least one of the three might be able to get the '0' reading even if they are badly worn at the sweat spot
but also I remember what you said -
I thought that if they are at 10, 000 and I moved it passed the "sweet spot" then it would jump to 0.
I have tried moving them really slow,( I've even put them on backwards and then turning them) but it just sit's at 10,000
and you said all three were the same, have you checked the connections to the ignitor module yet ?
If you have a meter, or could get one, really would be interested to know what resistance measurements you got off the three sensors like I put in reply #24, or just turning the centre without them on the bike.
Havent been able to check resistances etc as I'm in work for the next 4 days (night shifts 12hr shifts ) I'm actually in work at the moment lol.
When I get a chance though I will definitely do this and post the results.