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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Paulfzs on 08 February 2015, 07:46:51 pm

Title: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 08 February 2015, 07:46:51 pm
was looking at getting a k&n for my fzs 600 but not sure its worth it.


anyone got a review of them? maybe got one laying around you want to get rid of.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Fazafou on 08 February 2015, 08:04:51 pm
In my experience, k&n's are only worth it if you're tuning the bike to use one.

I've put them on stock bikes (and cars) before and they make no difference. Most people 'perceive' a difference due to the money they've just spent.

Also, rather than changing filters in the future, you have to clean it. It's your choice whether that's a benefit or a chore.

I personally don't fit them now and stick with standard filters.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: mtread on 08 February 2015, 09:09:33 pm
Disagree. K&N in my 600 makes a noticeable difference. Smoother and perkier. O and I think I can manage the cleaning 'chore' every 50,000 miles ......
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 08 February 2015, 10:09:37 pm
K&N on the FZS600 makes a big difference to the smoothness through the rev range. Couple it with a carb balance and you will not regret it.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 08 February 2015, 10:48:58 pm
K&N on the FZS600 makes a big difference to the smoothness through the rev range. Couple it with a carb balance and you will not regret it.


+1 to that, i don't know how anyone could not feel the bike perk up with a K&N fitted, it certainly does make it feel better.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 08 February 2015, 10:56:52 pm
a carb balance is my next task when i can afford to buy a balancer... i may have to invest in a k&n too
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: His Dudeness on 09 February 2015, 11:25:15 am
I put one in. I'm not washing myself for the next 50,000 miles. Think that's what the box said to do :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Fazafou on 09 February 2015, 12:24:30 pm
The reason they don't need washing for that long is they dont filter the air that well.

High flow is always a trade off with filtration efficiency.

A stock filter in good condition allows more than enough air through with good filtration of fine particles, and won't end up running lean if you haven't tuned your carbs.

But of course just my opinion, each to their own :)
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 09 February 2015, 01:22:08 pm
was looking at getting a k&n for my fzs 600 but not sure its worth it.


anyone got a review of them? maybe got one laying around you want to get rid of.
Probably the best modification to the carburettor model fazer, since the run slightly rich as standard  :)
The filteration is every bit as good as OEM filters.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Fazafou on 09 February 2015, 01:59:40 pm


The filteration is every bit as good as OEM filters.

I'd be keen to see the independent testing for that claim, as there's plenty online showing they aren't.

They let more particulate through to achieve the higher flow rate, fact.

Most people are narrow minded with these as they've paid all that cash and don't want to admit to themselves.

I've tried both in cars and bikes and kept an open mind, and went back to stock.

As I say, each to their own, but no point offering 'advice' on unfounded claims or non-independent testing.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: stevierst on 09 February 2015, 02:12:11 pm
Been using them for the last 25 years on cars and bikes without any engine issues.
They're not a 'miracle' performance mod, but part of the tuning route as per any other mod.
I noticed a bit more smoother running, and maybe a bit sharper on the throttle. The 50k cleaning interval is a bonus, as I probably won't have the bike by then.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: mtread on 09 February 2015, 02:45:52 pm
I'm assuming that in some vehicles there's a noticeable difference, and some not. As has been said, the FZS600 runs rich, so a leaner filter will make an obvious difference. Other vehicles perhaps not. I've been quite happy spending that extra £20  :)
So to summarise for Paul - Do It !

Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 09 February 2015, 03:19:37 pm
Im not convinced by them.
Last year I changed a 16 year old filter for a new OEM filter and noticed NO difference, so if I dont notice a difference between an old dirty one to a new one then I canot see me seeing a difference between a new oem and a new K&N.
Also everyone says that the FZS600 runs rich - but why dose it, it was built that way there must be a reason for it, and so to run it any other way would be damaging wouldnt it somehow perhaps ? 
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: noggythenog on 09 February 2015, 03:54:39 pm
Lets face it they look cool when you put them in plus they sound ice plus you get some K&N stickers.


Who cares about all the rest :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 09 February 2015, 04:15:02 pm
There are plenty of independent groups which have have tested and documented (Dynojet being one) K&N air filters against other air filters and K&N have always comes very close to the top if not the top for air filtration of fine dust particles and flow rate. :eek
I have fitted them to all my bikes and cars over the past 25 years and in every instance have found improvements in all vehicles in which they were fitted. All the Fazers; 400,600 and 1000 I have owned have felt smoother with better sounding intake noise, but my present car, a Mazda 6 has shown the biggest difference in improved throttle response and slightly better fuel economy. :) Even my wife commented on the improved throttle response.
The K&N filter in my 600 Fazer has covered over 80,000 miles and have been washed 3 times in that time thus saving me the cost of buying 3 OEM air filters.  :)
The FZS600 runs rich from the factory to get it through the "Pass‐by noise testing of accelerating road vehicles", which is one of the reasons the engine was phased out as it could not meet the noise and emission testing regulations.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 09 February 2015, 04:24:37 pm
Im not convinced by them.
Last year I changed a 16 year old filter for a new OEM filter and noticed NO difference, so if I dont notice a difference between an old dirty one to a new one then I canot see me seeing a difference between a new oem and a new K&N.
Also everyone says that the FZS600 runs rich - but why dose it, it was built that way there must be a reason for it, and so to run it any other way would be damaging wouldnt it somehow perhaps ?

You're not convinced by something you've never tried?

Interesting.  :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 09 February 2015, 04:31:42 pm
will i be able to wheelie longer
if so then sold!


anything that makes the fazer run and sound better is a must have.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 09 February 2015, 06:13:35 pm
will i be able to wheelie longer
if so then sold!


anything that makes the fazer run and sound better is a must have.

 :thumbup :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 09 February 2015, 06:52:05 pm
Quote
You're not convinced by something you've never tried?


Yeh thats right - there is no logic to my logic. Other than when i swaped I was fully expecting to notice a difference given the state of the old one, see the old and new picture. If I didnt notice any difference from a filter so bad then how much difference is a k&N going to be over a new OEM one, more of a difference than the difference between an old OEM and a new OEM ?
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8824;image)
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 09 February 2015, 09:07:18 pm
Quote
You're not convinced by something you've never tried?


Yeh thats right - there is no logic to my logic. Other than when i swaped I was fully expecting to notice a difference given the state of the old one, see the old and new picture. If I didnt notice any difference from a filter so bad then how much difference is a k&N going to be over a new OEM one, more of a difference than the difference between an old OEM and a new OEM ?
([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8824;image[/url])


Your bike must've been running megashite beforehand.
Trust me, and others, I reckon you would probably notice the difference the most!  :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: RMT1983 on 09 February 2015, 09:20:35 pm
Buy Mine!!!! lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 09 February 2015, 10:10:36 pm
Buy Mine!!!! lol






Ill pay the postage for it :D you can chuck the tank bolt in too with your address ill send the mountain of bubble wrap back :D
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Punkstig on 09 February 2015, 11:23:43 pm
I'm currently in possession of farjo's carbtune which you're welcome to use, but you'd have to come visit!
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 09 February 2015, 11:27:18 pm
The filter in the photograph is age and petrol fumes discoloured making it look worse than it actually is, therefore having little effect on the running. A bad filter will only effect the running at 10 to 13000 revs and then get progressively worse lower down the rev range as the filter continues to get dirtier.  :eek
If you do not regularly use the bike above 10000 revs then the difference in the filter you had and a new one would not be really noticeable. :rolleyes

However what you would notice with the K&N is a slightly better throttle response throughout the rev range and a little less vibration. If you do not notice these changes then you most likely do not rev much above its 7000 power band :pokefun




Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 09 February 2015, 11:28:20 pm
I'm currently in possession of farjo's carbtune which you're welcome to use, but you'd have to come visit!

Does Farjo know you are renting it out while he is away :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 10 February 2015, 10:09:15 am
The filter in the photograph is age and petrol fumes discoloured making it look worse than it actually is, therefore having little effect on the running. A bad filter will only effect the running at 10 to 13000 revs and then get progressively worse lower down the rev range as the filter continues to get dirtier.  :eek
If you do not regularly use the bike above 10000 revs then the difference in the filter you had and a new one would not be really noticeable. :rolleyes

However what you would notice with the K&N is a slightly better throttle response throughout the rev range and a little less vibration. If you do not notice these changes then you most likely do not rev much above its 7000 power band :pokefun


Now I am convinced
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: bigbluebear on 10 February 2015, 10:55:34 am
The other alternative is a Pipercross.....Mike fitted these for the Ivanising of us Scottish Foccers so they must be as good as the K&N but a bit cheaper.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 10 February 2015, 11:41:41 am
The other alternative is a Pipercross.....Mike fitted these for the Ivanising of us Scottish Foccers so they must be as good as the K&N but a bit cheaper.

£2 cheaper, but the K&N nabs the vote for the first 50,000 mile cleaning interval.  :D
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: tony_d123 on 11 February 2015, 09:12:35 pm
K&N's flow more air how? The surface area of the pleats is no better than a paper filter so obviously the material flows more air i.e. they have bigger holes. There was an article in Classic Mechanics last year on air filters and they shone a bright light through a K&N and a paper filter. There were very noticeable visible light holes in the K&N, if you can see them then dust and grit can get through.


So its a trade off between possible slightly better performance (dependent on many other variables) or longer engine life. You pays your money and you takes your choice  :)
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 11 February 2015, 09:55:15 pm
K&N's flow more air how? The surface area of the pleats is no better than a paper filter so obviously the material flows more air i.e. they have bigger holes. There was an article in Classic Mechanics last year on air filters and they shone a bright light through a K&N and a paper filter. There were very noticeable visible light holes in the K&N, if you can see them then dust and grit can get through.


So its a trade off between possible slightly better performance (dependent on many other variables) or longer engine life. You pays your money and you takes your choice  :)

You realise you're talking to people with 12-17yr old bikes that are still going strong?   :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 11 February 2015, 10:01:47 pm
K&N's flow more air how? The surface area of the pleats is no better than a paper filter so obviously the material flows more air i.e. they have bigger holes. There was an article in Classic Mechanics last year on air filters and they shone a bright light through a K&N and a paper filter. There were very noticeable visible light holes in the K&N, if you can see them then dust and grit can get through.


So its a trade off between possible slightly better performance (dependent on many other variables) or longer engine life. You pays your money and you takes your choice  :)

You realise you're talking to people with 12-17yr old bikes that are still going strong?   :lol


mines on its 3rd engine!!
1 change by me
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 12 February 2015, 12:39:25 am
K&N's flow more air how? The surface area of the pleats is no better than a paper filter so obviously the material flows more air i.e. they have bigger holes. There was an article in Classic Mechanics last year on air filters and they shone a bright light through a K&N and a paper filter. There were very noticeable visible light holes in the K&N, if you can see them then dust and grit can get through.

mines on its 3rd engine!!
1 change by me

Mines on its first and now with 86000miles and a K&N in it since its second oil and oil filter change at 4000 miles.

The reason K&N use oil on their filters is to trap the dirt. Well documented fact :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: midden on 12 February 2015, 06:46:36 am
K&N's flow more air how? The surface area of the pleats is no better than a paper filter so obviously the material flows more air i.e. they have bigger holes. There was an article in Classic Mechanics last year on air filters and they shone a bright light through a K&N and a paper filter. There were very noticeable visible light holes in the K&N, if you can see them then dust and grit can get through.


So its a trade off between possible slightly better performance (dependent on many other variables) or longer engine life. You pays your money and you takes your choice  :)

You realise you're talking to people with 12-17yr old bikes that are still going strong?   :lol


mines on its 3rd engine!!
1 change by me
Just for the record and possible future reference: should the 'engine' be comparable  to the broom head, or the broom handle?
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 12 February 2015, 06:53:24 am
K&N's flow more air how? The surface area of the pleats is no better than a paper filter so obviously the material flows more air i.e. they have bigger holes. There was an article in Classic Mechanics last year on air filters and they shone a bright light through a K&N and a paper filter. There were very noticeable visible light holes in the K&N, if you can see them then dust and grit can get through.


So its a trade off between possible slightly better performance (dependent on many other variables) or longer engine life. You pays your money and you takes your choice  :)

You realise you're talking to people with 12-17yr old bikes that are still going strong?   :lol


mines on its 3rd engine!!
1 change by me


What are you doing to the poor thing?
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: tony_d123 on 12 February 2015, 08:22:28 am
K&N's flow more air how? The surface area of the pleats is no better than a paper filter so obviously the material flows more air i.e. they have bigger holes. There was an article in Classic Mechanics last year on air filters and they shone a bright light through a K&N and a paper filter. There were very noticeable visible light holes in the K&N, if you can see them then dust and grit can get through.


So its a trade off between possible slightly better performance (dependent on many other variables) or longer engine life. You pays your money and you takes your choice  :)

You realise you're talking to people with 12-17yr old bikes that are still going strong?   :lol



Of course, there will always be the 95 year old granny who smokes 40 Woodbines and has a tot of whiskey every day and is still going strong. Wouldn't like to see the inside of her lungs though. All I'm saying is you make your choice with all the facts :)

Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 12 February 2015, 09:07:48 am
That may be the case with the grannies, but 3 engines, Midden in this case I would think the Broom Head, not being pushed properly :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 12 February 2015, 10:37:19 am
I am now not convinced again
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 12 February 2015, 12:19:25 pm
haha dont blame me :D


i got it on its 2nd engine which lasted 400 miles before imploding randomly, had oil was being raced a little bit at the time but id barely gone above 70 before this happened.


this 3rd engine though is running amazingly :D but clearly running lean!
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: mikelockyer on 12 February 2015, 12:56:39 pm
Hi My current 54 plate fazer thou has just clocked 20thou miles and a previous 02 model clocked 23thou and i am still using the same K&N filter. Never had engine issues on either bike. Regular maintenance by a good mechanic is the answer to most of the problems on any bike.
Regards Mike
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 12 February 2015, 01:13:14 pm
So how much do they cost (incl oil cleaning kit) compared to an OEM one then.
Plus it looks a faf to clean and you then have to dry it and in the meantime you have a big hole to your engine and a mouse might get down there or something.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 12 February 2015, 04:34:56 pm
So how much do they cost (incl oil cleaning kit) compared to an OEM one then.
Plus it looks a faf to clean and you then have to dry it and in the meantime you have a big hole to your engine and a mouse might get down there or something.

If you bought the filter and cleaning kit right now, about £45 delivered on Flebay.

To me it's not about the money though, the bike just behaves and feels better.

Probably best to clean it when you're not using the bike, in your case when it's raining, so you'll have plenty of opportunity, after you've done your first 50,000 miles (supposedly).  :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 12 February 2015, 05:35:37 pm
So how much do they cost (incl oil cleaning kit) compared to an OEM one then.
Plus it looks a faf to clean and you then have to dry it and in the meantime you have a big hole to your engine and a mouse might get down there or something.




how much does 1 mouse power equate to??
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 12 February 2015, 05:49:31 pm
So how much do they cost (incl oil cleaning kit) compared to an OEM one then.
Plus it looks a faf to clean and you then have to dry it and in the meantime you have a big hole to your engine and a mouse might get down there or something.

Probably best to clean it when you're not using the bike, in your case when it's raining

 :rollin
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: ChristoT on 12 February 2015, 05:49:58 pm
It's squeak x cheese squared, Paul! :lol
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 12 February 2015, 05:52:56 pm
So how much do they cost (incl oil cleaning kit) compared to an OEM one then.
Plus it looks a faf to clean and you then have to dry it and in the meantime you have a big hole to your engine and a mouse might get down there or something.




how much does 1 mouse power equate to??

About 1/2 a hampster which is about 1/4 of a cat which is 1/4 of a dog which is 1/4 of a donkey which is half a horse power.
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 12 February 2015, 05:59:53 pm
I am now not convinced again

So your not convinced now because someone who does not use a K&N filter has replaced the engine in his bike 3 times. :rolleyes The mind boggles  :eek
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: unfazed on 12 February 2015, 06:02:18 pm
haha dont blame me :D


i got it on its 2nd engine which lasted 400 miles before imploding randomly, had oil was being raced a little bit at the time but id barely gone above 70 before this happened.


this 3rd engine though is running amazingly :D but clearly running lean!

How do you know it is running lean? Did you have it dynoed?
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 12 February 2015, 06:14:08 pm
I am now not convinced again

So your not convinced now because someone who does not use a K&N filter has replaced the engine in his bike 3 times. :rolleyes The mind boggles  :eek

Im all mixed up now
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: clayt74 on 12 February 2015, 08:08:41 pm
Just buy one!!!
It's less than £50 and you won't be disappointed!!!!
If you are then sell it on eBay with its life time guarantee  n buy ya self a £7 paper one!!!
Spend the cash you won't be disappointed both in feel and extra mpg!
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: darrsi on 12 February 2015, 08:27:02 pm
I am now not convinced again

So your not convinced now because someone who does not use a K&N filter has replaced the engine in his bike 3 times. :rolleyes The mind boggles  :eek

Im all mixed up now


Get really pissed then search for one one Ebay, preferably the correct one for your bike, then you'll just impulse buy it.  :b
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: RMT1983 on 12 February 2015, 08:30:50 pm
£35 Delivered??? Only used for a month before some twat wrote my bike off!!!
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Paulfzs on 12 February 2015, 08:52:04 pm
£35 Delivered??? Only used for a month before some twat wrote my bike off!!!


should donate to me to end this argument  :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: mtread on 12 February 2015, 09:08:01 pm
£35 delivered for 50,000 miles ! 0.07p per mile. Sod cleaning it, I'd just buy another one  :eek
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: fazersharp on 12 February 2015, 09:58:34 pm
I am now not convinced again

So your not convinced now because someone who does not use a K&N filter has replaced the engine in his bike 3 times. :rolleyes The mind boggles  :eek

Im all mixed up now


Get really pissed then search for one one Ebay, preferably the correct one for your bike, then you'll just impulse buy it.  :b
Ok did that - got pissed - went on ebay, oh shit I now realise Ive just brought 300 tax disc holders--- FOC
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: Sannox on 15 February 2015, 10:27:51 pm
Just ordered a K&N for mine and putting on a Fuel exhaust at the same time, should make some difference????
Title: Re: k&n are they worth it?
Post by: RMT1983 on 15 February 2015, 10:33:52 pm
could have saved some money and offered on mine!!! £30 delivered...............