old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Triggergee on 25 January 2015, 04:10:47 pm
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After having various issues with my gears/clutch I've managed to get it down to only one issue with second gear, it jumps into neutral every time I give it throttle? I think it's one of the selector forks being bent after I tried to force it into gear when the selector rod jammed me in neutral a couple miles from my home. I miss my bike so bloody much now, it's been over two months since it worked and I've bought a Citroen berlingo to tide my over!
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The selector rod is a common issue with the Fazer's and can cause this. However, what condition is your chain in? I found mine would do this more if the chain was a little slack and it's starting to do it more now as my chain is getting pretty worn.
However, if you're getting this every time you change up to 2nd, then it could be more series. Mine has only been doing this occasionally, maybe once or twice on a longer ride.
Usually the procedure to change the gear selector involves engine removal, fair bit of labour, but parts are quite cheap I believe. There was a chap on here who had written up on how to swap the selector with engine in situ though. Sounded fiddly, but doable. Run a search.
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That was me that did the write up, I have done dozens of them.... Its a real common problem and once it starts jumping out of 2nd it normally the start of things that can only be rectified by swapping the selector mechanism in the gearbox.
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Deefer's write-up is here: (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=13101.msg148141#msg148141)
Following his guide a month later, I did the job and took a few pictures (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=13507.msg153970#msg153970).
It also seemed that the root cause of the Fazer's problem is wear in the claw pivot on the gear change shaft. I made a couple of attempts at modification, the last of which has been successful... at least, it's been OK for the 3000 miles I've covered since.
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I read the guide, really well written and I'm very thankfull it's on here. So by selector mechanism do you mean the selector forks and drum? Also my chain is very worn and feels terrible but I've just not got round to fitting the new one. I don't think it would make it jump out of 2nd every time though, I can't use the gear at all.
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The chain can be the cause of the problems, running it too tight or having a knackered chain with a tight spot will definately kill your gearbox bearings as well as the the sleector forks and drum. Replacing the chain wont rectify this once the symptoms have started.
If its got to the point where 2nd is no longer usable get it fixed NOW.... Any delay and you are just wearing away at the tips of the selector forks, the swarf will be circulating in the oil doing a far bit of damage and if the tips of the forks break off and get into circulation it will do a serious amount of damage.
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I stopped using the bike when it developed the problem so no more damage is being done, I didn't realise a nackerd chain can do so much damage I thought it just feels horrid. As for 2nd gear, as soon as I release the clutch and start accelerating passed 3,000 revs or so it jumps out of gear into netruel. I've managed to get hold of another drum but can't find a set of forks, Ebay has a pair including the right and centre forks but no left fork
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You may have more luck looking for a complete gearbox (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321657363383) which is what I ended up buying.
If you check directly with local breakers you can see before you hand over your cash... well worth it since ebay photos rarely give enough detail to judge if the condition is better than the components you're hoping to replace.
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Thanks for that, didn't think to look for complete kits. So in theory if I swap out the forks, drum and grind down the tab on the selector rod claw as well as fit a new chain and sproket I might be round this problem? Which fork corrisponds with second gear just out of interest?
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Yes, that should solve your problem.
The left selector fork is the one that does second gear.
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Easiest way of course is to find a breaker/dealer that'll Pex your engine
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Deefer, are you saying it's easier to swap the engine over than change the forks? I've had it out once and it was a right pain in the arse, for me at least.
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I take fazer engines out all the time so to me it aint no hassle
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The job is certainly simpler if you pay someone else to do it. :)
If you're sorting it yourself, replacing the worn parts with the engine in-situ is easier than swapping the motor. Not that either is going to be a lot of fun in February.
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I'll do it myself, I avoid paying someone for something I can do myself but your right I'm not looking forward to it. One or two of my exhaust stud bolts already have helicoils in them so Im a little nervous, if all mounts and bolts where in good condition I'd feel much easier about it all. If I had an engine crane I'd also be much happier to swap the engine (hurt my back pretty bad lifting it last time)
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Right I'm finally tackling it! Due to being really skint I couldn't just fork out (forgive the pun) for a whole gear box to get my selector forks but I spotted a set of all three off eBay for a tenner and the drum I had bought already for around the same so for around £50 including gaskets and oil I should be all sorted.
I didn't want to have my engine open over night in the damp which has been another thing slowing me down so I brought the bike into my kitchen lol, girlfriend not bothered oddly....
So far it's all going well so I've stopped for some spaghetti bolognaise and a glass of wine or two, getting the bike up was a bit unnerving and I'm not going to enjoy being under it but sod it I'm sick of my Citroen berlingo and this was my only solution.
I've got a query for anyone who's done this before and that is how do I get the drum out? I've been wiggling and everything but it won't budge, is it accessed from underneath once the sump's off?
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my missis would hang my balls for earings if I did that... :eek
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I think we need pics of said missus to fully establish what is happening here.
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That girlfriend of yours sounds like a keeper. :)
Yes, the drum slides out of the side once you've got the selector forks out, to do that you'll need the sump off.
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Cheers guys, she is very forgiving to my boy stuff, let's me fill the house with beer brewing kit, beer, tools, dogs and shooting gear. Her ex convinced her to let him bring his bike 12 floors up a high rise lift and stick it in their bedroom!
Ok so I got the forks and drum out, both look foc'd so that's good, is the damage on the track of the drum the track which relates to 2nd gear and the left fork? I didn't pay attention which fork was where (Oooopppps) and I broke the oil senser in the sump trying to put it out, lucky I'm off to fowlers in the morning for a gasket anyway. Putting it all back together looks bloody impossible in terms of getting the forks and drum in place, might leave it till tomorrow when the light is better. More wine now needed as my chest deflates from being so ace lol. Can't wait to get back on the road! Did my chain and sproket yesterday so after this just fork seals and the thing works again!
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Its tricky, but not impossible. Take your time, follow the guide I wrote and it'll all go back in. I'm on 07887 854614 if you need advice/moral support/piss taking. Good luck!
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I tackled it late last night in the end, was much easier than I thought. Just wiggled it all back in place patiently. All in all not a hard job really but there is no way I would have attempted it without help from deefer and fazerider so thank you both very much!
Now I'm just waiting for my oil level senser and a new bloody sump! I cracked the thing putting the sump plug back in, totally pissed off now I got to say! Another £8 for senser and £25 for the sump plus I have to wait till Tuesday for delivery.......
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:thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
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Well after completing Deefer666's last step in his guide (strutting around like a peacock once the jobs done) I seem to have a working bike again! Rather pleased about it too. Gears are selecting really smoothly and the first to second shift is smoother than ever, hopefully it won't start playing up again too soon if at all. Good stuff cheers guys
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Congratulations! :thumbup
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Hi, I followed Deefers instructions and it really helped me, the only thing is, I have re-assembled the bike and it still jumps out! Any ideas would be greatly received
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The dogs will be worn where the gears engage side by side. The dogs are nice and square but each time it jumps out it'll wear a chamfer on the edges, it gets worse and worse until they no longer stay engaged under any torque... As it jumps out it'll likely be bending your new fork. :-S
You need a new gear box! I'll take a photo of my knackered gears, if it makes it clearer...
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Thanks for the reply, I have a full assembly but the thought of taking out the full engine to change the internals of the box made my balls shrink so just changed the forks while the engine was in situ hoping that that would sort it, photos would be good so I can Identify better.... cheers
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This photo shows the worn bits. The three dogs on the top of the left gear should have sharp edges. You can see the rim underneath that the fork runs in. The fork pushes that lefthand gear across on the shaft so the dogs engage into the holes/slots in the righthand gear. This should also have sharp, not rounded edges in the holes. The combined wear means under any torque they are forced apart and it jumps out into the next hole.
I thought my bike was misfiring!
It cost me £80 for a donor engine, plus a head gasket, a tube of that liquid gasket stuff and three days to get the engine out/in and switch the gearbox in mine. It would be certainly easier if you can do it in your kitchen!
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I was quite smug about finding the problem on my bike, then changing everything over. Things like that don't normally work out for me.
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Thanks for the info and pics, I think I'm going to have a sulk about it for a few days then make a start on removing the engine.