Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 08 November 2014, 10:53:30 pm
Here's what I'm looking at:
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b550/nicknicklxs/DSCF6296_zps6995b898.jpg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/nicknicklxs/media/DSCF6296_zps6995b898.jpg.html)
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b550/nicknicklxs/DSCF6297_zps8946b910.jpg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/nicknicklxs/media/DSCF6297_zps8946b910.jpg.html)
Now, it's not going to wind up looking perfect, I know that. But I wondered if anyone had any suggestions on how to tidy it up a bit, inexpensively?
Cheers.
Post by: Exupnut on 08 November 2014, 11:05:38 pm
Post by: BIG MAC on 08 November 2014, 11:38:01 pm
Post by: ChristoT on 09 November 2014, 01:52:00 am
EDIT: Glass will hold, but even if you're good, it will always look rough. If you aren't good, it'll look manky.
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 10:34:04 am
Mac, sounds good, but TBH a bit more complex than I really want to get involved with. And I probably would make a mess of it! If I was going to do that kind of repair, I'd probably want to practice on some scrap items first, which I don't think is going to happen.
Post by: Nebuchernezzer on 09 November 2014, 10:36:05 am
Came up mint.
Post by: Deefer666 on 09 November 2014, 11:46:47 am
Whaddya reckon Deefer, can you do something with this? Got a piece broken off the tail unit too, clean break, was just going to glue it back on, no distortion in the plastic here I think.
Can do that in my sleep mate, Don't use glue or fibreglass as they are a non-flexing substance and the thing with fairings is that they do flex....Only a very minute amount but the do. The vibrations from a bike will cause the crack to re-open or the paint to deform, if done well a repair with glass or glue may last years but will open/split eventually.
What I do is plastic welding (I don't mean a soldering iron and a coat hanger!). Its a proper plastic weld with matched ABS plastic that will be permanent and just as strong as the original panel, ask anyone on here who I have repaired panels for, the down side is that it is a heat process so the paint will need to be redone & there will be a slight scar on the inside of the panel BUT I have repaired both sides of the panel before (a double weld) to leave a flawless finish on the inside but most people dont tend to want this as it cost extra and not many people are bothered by a slight imperfection on the inside of the panel.
This was Exxupnuts fairing after the repair and before the paint, it was split from the corner of the headlight and the middle of the headlight to the edge of the panel. if you look carefully you can see the weld but once it is painted you are left with an invisible repair.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1780911_10151946133696725_351517535_n.jpg?oh=c45a280921d0bda0677eea31bc59679c&oe=54DA3371&__gda__=1424140970_686e0c01d64ade69cc9344592ba2b39b)
Post by: Exupnut on 09 November 2014, 11:58:49 am
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 12:00:46 pm
So I'm just curious as to whether there is an easy way to just tidy it a little without spending big bucks. Your repair looks good Deefer, but then I'm left with it needing respraying, which I really don't want to spend out on with this bike. A bit of touching up would be fine. So it's looking like I'm hoping for a solution which doesn't exist. Which is kind of what I thought to be the answer, but just threw this out there on the off-chance really.
But at least now I know a bit more about the options, so have learned a little, and for that at least, I'm grateful to Deefer and Big Mac :thumbup
Post by: Deefer666 on 09 November 2014, 12:15:50 pm
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 12:23:58 pm
Post by: Deefer666 on 09 November 2014, 12:28:14 pm
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 12:37:56 pm
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b550/nicknicklxs/bikes_4_zps7c0da632.jpeg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/nicknicklxs/media/bikes_4_zps7c0da632.jpeg.html)
It bubbled up on the top of the cowling by the engine. Sent back for repair, they just did a rough overspray, so I wasn't impressed. I get the idea that they can do a decent job, but only do so when the bike is likely to be high profile and give them some advertising. Paint on mine doesn't look bad though. Or didn't til I got my hands on it :lol
I was taught once that to get the best finish, you spend lots of time and effort on preparing the surface, coats of primer, then paint, then lacquer, all flatted off, and all thin coats. I was told this is how you get a real depth to the shine. But then, the cost for most would be prohibitively high I guess.
Post by: ChristoT on 09 November 2014, 12:44:37 pm
I've had Dream Machine paintwork before, on a GSXR750, the red and black one in this pic:.
It bubbled up on the top of the cowling by the engine. Sent back for repair, they just did a rough overspray, so I wasn't impressed. I get the idea that they can do a decent job, but only do so when the bike is likely to be high profile and give them some advertising. Paint on mine doesn't look bad though. Or didn't til I got my hands on it :lol
I was taught once that to get the best finish, you spend lots of time and effort on preparing the surface, coats of primer, then paint, then lacquer, all flatted off, and all thin coats. I was told this is how you get a real depth to the shine. But then, the cost for most would be prohibitively high I guess.
Knowing how much Exupnut paid for his fairing, you should be breaking Deefer's arm off, Nick! Definitely worth it, the cost is very reasonable, especially considering the finish!
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 12:48:21 pm
Knowing how much Exupnut paid for his fairing, you should be breaking Deefer's arm off, Nick! Definitely worth it, the cost is very reasonable, especially considering the finish!
Even considering this bike's likely future?
Post by: Deefer666 on 09 November 2014, 12:49:40 pm
To be brutally honest I would not want to respray over their paintwork, Despite Christo's kind words... I would offer to do the plastic repair but as for paintwork I dont really wanna touch it.
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 12:58:17 pm
Post by: His Dudeness on 09 November 2014, 12:59:07 pm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Q-Bond-Repair-Kit-Small-ROCK-HARD-IN-10-Seconds-BNIB-Qbond-Q-Bond-/230400862864?pt=UK_Crafts_Cardmaking_Scrapbooking_Glue_Tape_EH&hash=item35a4f62a90 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Q-Bond-Repair-Kit-Small-ROCK-HARD-IN-10-Seconds-BNIB-Qbond-Q-Bond-/230400862864?pt=UK_Crafts_Cardmaking_Scrapbooking_Glue_Tape_EH&hash=item35a4f62a90)
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 01:01:44 pm
Post by: Deefer666 on 09 November 2014, 01:04:50 pm
Without seeing that fairing in the flesh it difficult to quote as you can end up chasing crackes all over the panel. I will pm ya a rough price.
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 01:25:19 pm
Post by: BIG MAC on 09 November 2014, 07:13:22 pm
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action-media;sa=media;in=2346;preview)
Post by: BIG MAC on 09 November 2014, 07:21:00 pm
Post by: BIG MAC on 09 November 2014, 07:25:46 pm
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 07:58:52 pm
Post by: ChristoT on 09 November 2014, 08:36:36 pm
Post by: NorthWestern on 09 November 2014, 10:54:15 pm
The thing with resin based fixes is that the resin doesn't stick to plastic so you need to rough it up to get it to mechanically grip it but this only needs a knock to loosen whole portions of the resin from plastic. Some things you can get away with this (and I have used it in the past) but it will eventually fail so your at the mercy of luck more than anything. Oil covers etc are not too bad but anything that flexes, fairings, mudguards etc are prone to failure. I have spent time getting a really nice finish and its lasted a week, I have slapped some on a part to make do for a week or so and its ended up outlasting the bike! Also you need to finish the presentation side of the piece anyway, presumably with a filler, this is again prone to fail. With plastic welding your fix is on both sides, requires no foreign filler and has no risk of failing.
I have used the hot air + plastic sticks that came out and they are good but expensive ( well they were ), I presume this is what Deefer uses. I did do some experimenting with a soldering iron, using an old fairing to cut slivers of ABS plastic to use as the filler/welding rod. That gives a really good bond and finish, is quick and the fix is almost as good as standard strength wise, your not using a filler that has different properties to crack/come unstuck etc. A lot of people say use tie wraps or coat hangers but they are not good to use, the plastic is different and when you heat it enough to properly melt into the fairing ABS it becomes brittle, you can actually see this when you fix the part, if you flex it you see the different plastics as they flex differently, or not at all. I think this is what prompts the use of paper clips and suchlike to strengthen the join, this is not required in my experience. Use ABS from a fairing, ask a breakers or whatever for some bits they are throwing, it really is the best stuff. I guess you could buy the rods used in the proper kits but I remember these being a bit thick.
You can't beat the proper kits and I am sure that Deefer can fix one in a jiffy with his, I remember using mine and it was a doddle, like icing a cake almost. The solder iron is a bit more fiddly but for a first timer it is probably easier because things happen slower and you don't need to dremel out a groove. The final results are more or less the same.
So as a quick cheap repair all you need to buy is a temperature controlled solder iron, I got mine a while back from CPC for £25. No messing with smelly resin and glass fibre, no waiting for things to cure and its easy to sand. The cheap "stick" ones are a bit crap because they heat to one temp, hot enough to solder with and really its a bit hot but you could give it a whirl, they are about £5
Without further ado... I fixed my fairing tonight. I am planning on respraying it so needed to fix the thing first. Took a couple of hours from start, removing the fairing etc, clearing a space in the garage, seeing to my daughter, sanding and then putting some undercoat on - to finish.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7497/15131641914_d162dc4627_c.jpg)
So this is the fairing on the bike. The crack is clearly visible, I am not entirely sure how it broke, I bought it from a breaker for about £30 or so IIRC. The crack has dostorted the plastic slightly so it will need sanding flat before welding. I find sanding flat first is easier as you can line them up and know its bang on when you need to sand down the welded part later, you also know that once you sand the weld smooth your done, no need to check for steps or whatever.
Here its starting to get flat enough to weld.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/15566161868_41221bedbb_c.jpg)
Ok this picture (below) has the first pass at welding done, you can see the black scar. I have given it a light sand to see any low spots. High spots are fine at this point but any low ones need a bit of a tweak with the iron+rod. You will probably need to do 2 or 3 sand + checks to get it perfect. Remember this will provide the final surface so your not going to have to put any filler etc on so you might as well take the time to get it right.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/15565715539_cd75a1664e_c.jpg)
Here I have blown some undercoat on just to do a final check. Sometimes it looks great and you get your paints out and wham, undercoat shows up some problem areas. This was bang on really. You can't see any issues here. "My god man you painted a dirty fairing", yeah I know... This will be getting a wash, sand + respray tomorrow so I wasn't too bothered about this tonight.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5613/15753120922_4d32fccaa1_c.jpg)
So all in it took about an hour start to finish. I did it just in the garage, no nasty smells etc. The solder method doesn't produce nasty smells unless your burning the plastic, I use temps from 150 to 220 C depending on how its going. The cost is just £25 for an iron and that will pretty much do as many panels as you want, zero cost if you already own one.
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2014, 11:34:35 pm
Either way, I don't think it'll be a perfect job, cos of the problems Deefer says with the Dream Machine paint if he does it, or the difficulty in matching the colour and doing a half decent job if I do it.
Eh, still not decided.
Post by: ChristoT on 10 November 2014, 07:55:40 am
When a friend who knew what he was doing did it, the finish on the welded side was better than the unbroken side!
Post by: NorthWestern on 10 November 2014, 08:06:12 am
Of course someone with experience will do it quicker and potentially better.
The paint is another matter.
Post by: Deefer666 on 10 November 2014, 08:12:54 am
Also you need to match the material that you are welding with.... Plastic may well be plastic but a slight viaration in its chemical make up and it will not adhere correctly. Bits of other fairings cut into strips will work provided its off the same manufactuer and made in the same time period. Factories get fairings made all over the world and the chemical "recipe" for thier ABS changes considerably thoughout the regions.
If you just want a cheap and cheerful fix then Q-Bond is the way to go.
Post by: midden on 10 November 2014, 11:44:47 am
Post by: His Dudeness on 10 November 2014, 12:58:17 pm
Post by: BIG MAC on 10 November 2014, 06:03:55 pm
Post by: NorthWestern on 10 November 2014, 07:52:49 pm
Post by: BIG MAC on 10 November 2014, 08:04:07 pm
Post by: midden on 10 November 2014, 11:56:18 pm
They're stamped as ABS on the inside. Think it might say it somewhere in the manual too.cheers