old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: Gingernutz on 23 January 2012, 12:02:39 am
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I can't believe anyone thinks that theres a problem with capping welfare at the same level as a £35K year salary after tax.
Surely that paying people that much to not work is the reason so many people won't.
Can anyone tell me I'm wrong and explain?
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The theory is all well and good, but, with typical governmental incompetence (no matter *which* government), the idea hasn't been thought through properly such that, were it to be passed, people who now rely on benefits would suddenly be told, for instance, "That's it, no more money, if you can't afford to live in the place which your Council's Housing Department has put you in, you'll have to move. Start packing."
The objections are not to the proposals, but the way in which they are planned to be implemented.
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I agree, when the government get involved, especially local ones, they usually make a cock up of it but, back in the real world that the majority of us live in, means that if we can't afford to live in an area we have to move.
So I think the cap is a good idea, why should the rest of us pay for others to live in expensive areas, or line the pockets of private landlords?
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If you can get £26K in benefits, that is the equivelent of a job paying £12.50/hour on a 40 hour week. Why would you want to work?
As Graham and Kev have said, if I cannot afford to live somewhere I move or I stay where I am and travel to work. Why should I as a tax payer fund the life of someone who sits on their arse all day drinking alcopops or special brew whilst watching Jeremy Kyle whils I work my balls off to ba able to afford less booze each week than I pay for for them?
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Ditto
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please don't rattle my cage on this one. *sits on hands*
BBrown1664, HERE HERE and that's just the tip of the iceburg
Bugger, I'm off...family down the road, in a 100% identical house to us, she's a mature student and he sits at home all day, they have one child we have 2. I work, my wife is a stay at home mum. We are desperate to move, we love our little terraced house but with 4 of us in there it's all of a sudden VERY small. But, we can't afford to move because of stamp duty, movings costs and the increase in the mortgage, council tax and heating bills etc that a bigger house would incur. BUT, people down the road are on benefits, they say the house is too small and get moved into a nice 3 bed semi in a nice part of town, nothing too grand but a house that would suit us down to the ground, so, REMIND ME WHY I WORK!!!!???!! and breathe *sits on hands again*
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GOOD
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Sorry, I have just realised I forgot to add tax to that, it is equivelant to £16.50/hour!!!!!!!!
Put it another way, £35K/year! I know loads of people that earn significantly less than this.
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Labour should have sorted this out instead of leaving it to the tories to do something crude.
A cap is fine but should be regionalised, otherwise you'll be better off being out of work up north where there are no jobs than down south where there are some.
But more generally, why are single people always expected to pay for families? They've got each other to support them, I have to do everything myself! They should be paying me.
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I foresee the only people who object to this are either beneficiaries, or bleeding heart liberals with more money than sense.
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so, REMIND ME WHY I WORK!!!!???!!
Because it's right and just and gives you enormous wellbeing that YOU provide for YOUR family.
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The original concept of the welfare state was a good one and I'm all for helping the needy.
Somewhere along the way it became a right rather than a helping hand.
I am now 62 and I have never even applied for council housing, let alone sit back and expect it.
We now have generations of people who have no intention of ever working and why would they when they can get more for doing nothing?
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well i think its wrong!!
me and my mrs have got 7 kids at home with us and i have to pay maintenance for the other 3 I know about!
only got britney and chardonay at school as the others are either too young to go and the 2 boys wayne and tyson are excluded! we have had to be given a big house with a huge garden so they can ride there quads bikes there as they keep getting arrested when they just pop out on the estate to ride them! I told them if anyone complains send em to me i'll give em what for!!
No I dont drink special brew, well only on special occasions as its well expensive, Lynx is better n cheap!
I cant work cuz i'm on tag but hopefully that will come off before we go to majorca for our all inclusive holiday. and why should i work and get me new white Nike trainers dirty? I never have done cuz why get all that pressure when I can sit at home using my blackberry n watching my 8 foot wide plasma 3d bluray sky TV?
when I get off tag they have promised me I can have a new multiseater car on disability because my wife has got this ingrowing toenail so cant walk the 100 yards to the shop for anything heavier than me fags!
I dont watch Jeremy Kyle on TV, I'm always there i got mor lie dectetor results and DNA results than I have qualifications!
so get off my back and go and earn your money to pay your taxes!!!
(this is tongue in cheek and not aimed at anyone or meant to insult anyone!)
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:rollin
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And the worst thing about Robbie's reply.......parts of this are probably so true! >:
Locksmith, you are quite right, but it don't half p1ss me off when I really think about what people get for sitting on their arse at home all day, especially the stuff I can't afford. BUt I know I'm not alone in my thoughts, Dilligaff sums it up rather well too.
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I agree but the Gov needs to balance this benefit cutting
They are on a mission to get the disabled in work ... fine
, but if you work and claim any disability benefits you are automatically under suspicion and come 2013 will be the first to be investigated even if the medical condition is permanent ????
Can’t have it both ways IDS
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Robbie, you dont know how close to the truth you are with some of what you are saying.
I know of one family, two adults and four kids. All four kids apparently have one issue or another meaning they have special needs and allowances for this that and the other. Only one of the kids I would say really has any problems and even that could be just down to the way the parents treat her (only daughter). Neither of the parents work and claim invalidity benefits resulting in a brand new car every couple of years that they onl;y have to put fuel in!
They have three or four weeks away each year, new branded trainers and clothes on a regular basis, just bought a pedigree puppy (and talked about getting another!) and loads more stuff that I cannot afford even though my wife and I work full time.
Must go and do some more work now, just got my tax code though telling me I owe them more money.
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Need to be careful about who's excluded from this £26K cap - and that's the problem.
At first sight it seems obvious that no one should get the equivalent of £33K on benefits but consider this:
I'm a well-off middle-class self-funded "economcally inactive" engineer with a wife and 2 kids- one of whom is autistic* - we get a total of £1000 a month. That's about £12K a year comprising
£250 DLA , £500 ESA (cos he's over 18) and £230 Carers allowance paid to the wife.
I don't claim any benefits but because I see lot of 'special needs' families I know how the "other half" lives.
1 of these "other half" is a family with 2 Autistic kids and 2 other kids who are in social housing and who can't work because of care commitments. I expect their benefits including housing benefit and jobseekers/ESA and child benefit are WAY north of £26K.
Now, you could argue that because the parents are obviously 'barking mad' they should never have had 4 kids but he fact is that they DO have 4 kids and are unable to support them - what would you do??
On the other hand I have seen plenty of kids who are simply "a bit odd" or "a bit thick" who's parents have cunningly exploited weak-willed social service and benefits staff and are claiming a load of benefits that they shouldn't be getting.
The problem is, as it has been since the days of the "work house" : How do you discriminate between the "Deserving Poor" and the "Undeserving Poor"?
* I mean properly Autistic and needing 24 hr care, not one of these 'slightly shy' "aspergers" kids with a personality problem.
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weak-willed social service and benefits staff and are claiming a load of benefits that they shouldn't be getting.
And there lies the main culprit.
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I don't know all about the politics, but I am a tax payer and am entitled to an opinion, and it is this.
I work a full time job to support myself and my Fiancee, who is a 5th year student in the field of phycology. I pay my bills, I pay my tax and NI, I pay for my car and bikes. We own the house we live in, and we each own our "bachelor pads", which we rent out (not to low life dole scum might I add). I was born in a council estate, no money, poor education...but I worked damn hard to get into a good high school (academy actually), then went onto further education. I got a good job, and continue to work hard. In other words I contribute, to the best of my ability, to the econemy and country in general.
I understand that SOME families need help, and I am proud to live in a country that can offer that...but
In the house right across the road from me, a fat lazy turd (nothing against fat people), the same age as me, was given the house by the council, for him, his pig ugly woman, and three children. He does not work. He does not look after the house or garden. He does not shave or wear an ironed shirt. He sits all day and plays Xbox like a pubecent teenager, or stands at his door watching like some redneck hick.
This is, without a doubt, THE ONLY PERSON in the world I hate. I absolutly hate him. He is the anti-me. I feel for his kids and I would like to know if he know's how mutch of a pathetic, low life, deadbeat, scum-bucket and excuse of a man he is. Why should he live in the same house as I do, when I worked so hard to EARN it?
These people spoil it for other, deserving people. I say the system is wrong, but I don't know if a benefit limit is the right way or not.
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My opinion is the welfare state has evolved into the wrong system, and yes its clear too many folk are getting huge benefit for doing nowt. But instead of taking real benefits away from real deserving cases...which is the stupid tory blunt hammer approach...we should question just how benefits are given in the first place. AND there needs to be a work alternative given. BUT that is the trouble. We dont have 2.6 million unemployed and 2.6 million vacancies. A huge number of unemployed do want jobs but they genuinely cannot find any. Its not just a question of getting on yer bike either. Trouble is, its all starting to become extremely victorian, and everyone on benefit is starting to be classed as a lazy scrounger. As a society we really are slipping into quite miserable intolerance and a " i'm allright jack stance" which is fine till the sword of damaclese descends on your job , then you become a scrounger just cos you need help !
. The way out has to be a limit on benefit for sure, and definitely those who are fit should help on project or community work, not sit at home.But it should be work with dignity and pride, not a workhouse approach. I feel very strongly that this government has abandoned the youth of today...just as the same old Tory government did in Thatchers day. Its just like turning back the clock.Its going to create social division, crime and IMO is just not the way a civilised society should sort out the problem.
People need a vision and encouragement to pull themselves out of the mire,to get off benefit if they can..... not this ridiculous old fashioned same old tory bull approach.
Maybe we also should look at why we have 400 thousand immigrants on welfare too !
And dont go kidding yerselves all these benefits cannot be got right now....there just seems to be no judgement in the system, too much an automatic right .It is a stinking mess for sure...we pay too many people to do nothing, an utter waste of human kind , and then throw abuse at genuine cases if they ask for help .
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ONLY PERSON in the world I hate
Walk a mile in his shoes, then you'll be a mile away and you'll have his footwear (and some interesting fungal diseases too I suspect) :(
More seriously, he has probably discovered that in "T Blairs World" it simply isn't worth working for minimum wage to pay G Brown's taxes in order to make an extra £30 a week. Why should he while he sees "the rich" (and to him that means anyone with a posh car) making more than he can ever hope to earn. Meanwhile the state pays for his kids and the NHS solves his health problems and life is good.
He may not be socially responsible but as things stood in 2010 he is right. The Government's task is to make him wrong.
4WIW , I have discovered that the only good reason for having money (more than say £40K a year) is to fund healthcare that the NHS won't provide (like - jumping the cancer waiting list! :) ). Everything else can be funded out of £40K.
- Cars don't go faster or much smoother beyond about £2K
- Housing is cheap or free if you already own it.
- Expensive holidays are a bore when you've had 10 of 'em - might as well go to Cornwall for £1K.
- Good food can be bought for £50 a week each.
- A good night out can be had for £30.
- If you save any money, HMRC will take 40 percent of it when you die.
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I know whay your saying here, but I would still like the lazy c**t to get a job and show his poor children a better life. A holiday to cornwall would be a massive treat. We went to Bulgaria a few years back, and when his kids enquired as to Bulgaria's wherabouts, I told them its on the eastern edge of Europe, a few thousand miles away and we would have to fly there. They replyed with "we are going to moodiesburn on holiday". Moodiesburn is a feeder town to Glasgow, about 15 miles away. That lazy toad's brother lives there and was taking them for a week. How sad is that :'( .
He is, believe it or not, a qualified motor mechanic and has an HGV Licence. I KNOW that a garage about 2 miles away are activley seeking 2 full time mechanics. WTF?
Its wrong, plain wrong. And I have to admit, In the summer I take great pleasure in washing my car and two motorcycles and peacocking them right out on the front driveway in the sunshine with the engines running, all like - bling, look at my bling, bling, look at my bling. Not that it is bling, but to that MF, it is :lol
ONLY PERSON in the world I hate
Walk a mile in his shoes, then you'll be a mile away and you'll have his footwear (and some interesting fungal diseases too I suspect) :(
More seriously, he has probably discovered that in "T Blairs World" it simply isn't worth working for minimum wage to pay G Brown's taxes in order to make an extra £30 a week. Why should he while he sees "the rich" (and to him that means anyone with a posh car) making more than he can ever hope to earn. Meanwhile the state pays for his kids and the NHS solves his health problems and life is good.
He may not be socially responsible but as things stood in 2010 he is right. The Government's task is to make him wrong.
4WIW , I have discovered that the only good reason for having money (more than say £40K a year) is to fund healthcare that the NHS won't provide (like - jumping the cancer waiting list! :) ). Everything else can be funded out of £40K.
- Cars don't go faster or much smoother beyond about £2K
- Housing is cheap or free if you already own it.
- Expensive holidays are a bore when you've had 10 of 'em - might as well go to Cornwall for £1K.
- Good food can be bought for £50 a week each.
- A good night out can be had for £30.
- If you save any money, HMRC will take 40 percent of it when you die.
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This is quite an interesting one.
As the people who will be financially effected are generally rich Tories. I wasn't convinced they would actually go and do this, because it hurts their own, though of course by the time it's been voted down a few times and amended it won't really make any difference, but the Tories will get applauded for making populist noises. It's a non event, very clever posturing though.
The reason we have this mess comes back to Maggie and the council houses. There's foc all council houses any more.
I know guys at work who have DSS empires. They buy a ropey flat for 30 grand, spend 5 - 10 grand making it meet the regs and then get some DSS in. Every 3-6 years you make your money back on it. My foccing tax money handed over, not to the unemployed, disabled or needy, but rich dudes with little rental empires.
Apparently, this legislation, if it does through, could save up to 250 million a year. Well foc me ain't that a fortune!
Meanwhile crazy Dave is still to scared to do anything about the bankers bonuses, you know the guys we bailed out with a trillion quid or two who are throwing billions about in bonuses. The non-doms and other rich tax avoiders (the more you earn the less you pay tax in % terms). All the failed bankers on their state backed fat pension deals.
All the UK companies, operating in the UK but registered abroad, so they can skip on 100's of billions of pounds of tax.
That's where the money is folks.
But hey don't expect the Daily Mail and the Express to let the obvious truth get in the way of a good story. And you lot, just like the rest of the country swallow it whole. Never mind who's really screwing you, just get that poor foccer on the benifits.
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VNA, tax avoidance is a completely different matter that should be dealt with AS WELL.
For now though, we are talking about scroungers on benefits who could work but are better off by not doing so because of the benefits system we have in this country.
I bet even the pikeys find a way to claim a fortune here too!
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fact is that they DO have 4 kids and are unable to support them - what would you do??
(http://www.mostlylefthanded.co.uk/images/uploads/scissorsbluehandle.jpg)
(http://www.mortonmedical.co.uk/images/Prestige_14_cm_Nurses_Utility_Scissors___Black.jpg)
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(http://media.salon.com/2010/12/will_they_finally_believe_i_dont_want_children-460x307.jpg)
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I must admit I do know of people that are part like I described and just merged them together!
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Good to see even the liberal lot on here won't argue with the concept. £35k for doing foc all is criminal. Did you see the 'example' on TV they dragged out to say it wasn't fair my taxes should keep her in a house that looked a lot nicer than mine cos she doesn't want to move away from her firends? Foc off you sponging twat. The people who are paying for your lifestyle have to move house to find work.
Andy - I know this is only £250M - but thats enough money to run a large NHS Trust for a year. As for tax dodgers I have another idea.
In 1985 in Ireland they brought in a rule whereby if you shopped a tax dodger you got 10% of his back taxes. I reckon this would go down a storm.
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Tax dodging, billions upon billions of pounds of it, is legal in the UK. And that ain't gonna change.
A saving of 250 million, which is somewhat optimistic, by comparison, is a drop in the ocean.
it wasn't fair my taxes should keep her in a house that looked a lot nicer than mine cos she doesn't want to move away
She doesn't get the cash. The landlord does. Good old Tory policy. Your taxes go straight to the rich Tories. And that, my friends, ain't gonna change.
Foc off you sponging twat.
Np foc off you Tory sponging bastards.
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She doesn't get the cash. The landlord does.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am a landlord. I once rented one of my flats out to my ex-mate of 26 years, who is a dole-scum-good-for-nothing. The "social" as we call them in Glasgow (Jobseekers, benefit people...) paid the rent money to him, which he was in turn to pay to me. The do noy pay the landlord directly. They do this in order to give some sence of resposability to to worthless scum they are supporting. Make them feel like they are part of it. I once went along with my ex-mate to meet his assigned worker. She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat. Needless to say my ex-mate Fuc**d off with 4 months rent money, left my flat a stinking mess, and left me to sort all the bills and pay the mortgage. So don't give me all that pi*h about wealthy landlords. Go speak to one and get your facts straight.
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She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat.
that is happening in Doncaster to a mate of ours, he rents his dads house out to 2 girls on social, at xmas they got the money from social but asked if there was anymore money as they has bills to pay and presents to buy, they told them to not pay the landlord all the money, keep what they needed to pay for other things, as it would be more hassle than it was worth to chase them for the money and the landlord could claim it back at £5 per week !!!!!!!!! (he is not a rich tory, his dad is in care, and he cannot leave the house empty it will get broken into, or sell it, as his father will not let it be sold, so he thought he would rent it out
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VAN. it used to be that dss rent would go to landlord In glasgow but its now changed as dj delight says. Kinda screws the landlord cos they used to advertise as no dss even tho they were guaranteed the cash. not so now
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In the "bad" old days, if you had a child outside of marriage or an unexpected pregnancy it was socially frowned upon and the mother and child had to live with the parents and make do............................. = deterrent
Nowadays under age girls are almost encouraged to get pregnant and then given a nice council house and handouts............... + reward.
The government has a policy of trying to increase the input to the taxation pot.
Immigration and an increase in births are a good way to do this if all the extra citizens get jobs and pay taxes. Unfortunately this is not always the case and as a previous poster noted there must be something wrong when people can get money from the system when they have never paid anything in???
Delboys manifesto.........
1. Leave school with no qualifications (because you were too busy doing drugs)............................ NO DOLE.
2. Commit any criminal offence while on social security..................................................................... NO MORE DOLE
3. Immigrants, get convicted of any criminal offence in your first 3 years here.................................. DEPORTED
4. Social security payments to be for 12 months then require a strict review and proof of job applications before renewal.
5. Set up workshops where the unemployed could be utilised for the production of anything rather than doing nothing. However menial this may be it would help to develop a work ethic and encourage them to seek more fulfilling employment.
6. Pay benefits with vouchers and NOT cash.
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Your point number 1 is actually extremely offensive. Just because some kids leave school with no qualifications does not make them drug addicts. You make yerself a fool to say that. Not everyone is capable of passing written exams. Often they have good vocational skills, but due to dyslexia or other problems cannot put their thoughts and ideas onto paper.They simplycannot pass exams of th etraditional kind..Maybe leave this sort of thing to eductional professionals??...who know what they R talking about.
generally this government R doing a fine job of loading the blame for all the countries woes onto the poor, the uneducated and the unemployed. Nice as it shifts attention away from the rich and the banks !..let alone the insane cost of the last 10 yrs spend on wars and defence...
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WHY IS THE BASTARD CHURCH GETTING INVOLVED? JUST FUCKING WELL FUCK RIGHT OFF YOU BUNCH OF KIDDY FIDDLING BASTARDS!!!!!!!! THE JEREMY KYLE CLASSES SHOULD BE TRIMMED TO THE BONE IN THE FINANCIAL SENSE BUT IM SURE SOME CASES ARE GENUINE AND THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN ARE NOW UP SHIT CREEK SANS PADDLE. I GET SO ANGRY COS I HAVE LOST MY JOB THROUGH REDUNDANCY AND COMPANY RELOCATION FOUR TIMES IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. WE MANAGED TO GET THROUGH BECAUSE I WENT OUT AND FOUND WORK. I CAN PROUDLY SAY I NEVER CLAIMED A BEAN FROM MY FELLOW TAX PAYERS. WE ENDED UP IN DEBT AND NOW HAVE NO SAVINGS BUT ARE BACK IN THE BLACK (JUST) THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE IF THE SCROUNGING BASTARDS WOULD LOOK :grumble
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She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat.
that is happening in Doncaster to a mate of ours, he rents his dads house out to 2 girls on social, at xmas they got the money from social but asked if there was anymore money as they has bills to pay and presents to buy, they told them to not pay the landlord all the money, keep what they needed to pay for other things, as it would be more hassle than it was worth to chase them for the money and the landlord could claim it back at £5 per week !!!!!!!!! (he is not a rich tory, his dad is in care, and he cannot leave the house empty it will get broken into, or sell it, as his father will not let it be sold, so he thought he would rent it out
I own 3 properties, one of which I live in. I have worked damn had for everything I have. Born with nothing and I still have most of it left :lol . I have only rented out to DSS once, and that was because it was to my mate of 26 years, and he still fuc**d me. People who get things for free take no pride in them.
I would NEVER rent to a jobless dole scum again. Recently I advertised my pad for rent on gumtree, clearly stating NO DSS. Still, these F**king idiots email asking if I will take DSS, or why I won't take DSS. I say, "Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."
As you can tell, I have a chip on my shoulder about these people. But I'm ok with that, because I pay around £800 PCM in TAX and NI, and I think that entitles me to have an opinion. I paid for it. And if anyone has a beef with thet, they can f**k right off too.
Ahh, I feel much better
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Are you In or around glasgow dj? I'm looking. I must warn you tho, I get a government payout every fortnight
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:rollin
Many years ago BC (before children) we used to rent out rooms in our house to help pay the bills when I was a lowly apprentice. At that time the DSS paid the landlords direct but didn't pay it all. You still had to chase the people for the rest. In the end I would tell the DSS the rent was £10a week more than it was to get the lot from them instead as it was painful getting cash out of dope heads and drunks who would get their money one day and it would be pissed up the wall by the end of the day,
I lived in the house so it wasn't too difficult to control. I wouldn't have taken DSS people if I didn't live there though as simple things like cleaning the feccin cooker after they spilled crap all over it was hard enough when you saw then a few times a week!
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She doesn't get the cash. The landlord does.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am a landlord.
So you have all my tax money! :eek The bulk of the cash is intended for the Landlord. How it gets there, or doesn't, I never commented on.
But what we have is tax payers forking out for inflated rents paid to people with money invested in property. This all comes back to Maggie selling off the council stock, the privatisation of the welfare state.
Meanwhile non of you care or want to do anything about the big money, the 100's billions pounds evey year that rich people avoid in taxation every single year. The kind of money that can get this country out of the mess that's it 's in.
And here's another thought for you all. There was a nice picture of Crazy Dave Cameron at Asda's head quarters in my paper today surrounded by Asda staff. Apparently Asda is spending 500 million on an expansion programme and creating 6000 jobs. Great news what? Now I'm wondering what this expansion is, but assuming it's within their usual retail business model, well that means 6000 low paid jobs, just above the minimum wage but below the living wage. Therefore it's another 6000 jobs that the tax payer will have to subsidise with welfare payments.
Why the hell do we continue to put up with subsidising the wage bill of stinking rich national and international companies? Is it not about time people in full time employment were paid a living wage, particularly when they are employed by a multi million/billion pound business.
The whole system is fucked, and nobody has any intention of doing anything about it.
Delboys manifesto.........
And yes one government policy for pulling the wool over our eyes is to run the agenda. Favourites are welfare, immigration, human rights, anything that with the help of the rich press barons will keep us from wising up to how the economy really works, and who it works for. Divide and rule.
In the "bad" old days, if you had a child outside of marriage or an unexpected pregnancy it was socially frowned upon and the mother and child had to live with the parents and make do............................. = deterrent
In the bad old days girls that got pregnant outside of marriage were considered to be mentally ill, after the child was taken from them at birth they were then placed in mental asylums were many remained for the rest of their lives.
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Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."
That's me tarred then :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Are you In or around glasgow dj? I'm looking. I must warn you tho, I get a government payout every fortnight
Yes, I am "in or around Glasgow". And if you get a giro, how the f**k can you afford a computer, never mind an internet connection? At least 20% of that is mine. ENJOY!
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Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."
That's me tarred then :rollin :rollin :rollin
If I have offended anyone, I honestly don't care. Junkies, Dole-scum and thieves are not entitled to an opinion in my book. I feed your kid's and pay for your pay-as-you-go mibile for f**k sake, I don't need to listen to your selfrighteous s**t aswell. If you don't pay your way, you don't get a say.
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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If I have offended anyone, I honestly don't care. Junkies, Dole-scum and thieves are not entitled to an opinion in my book. I feed your kid's and pay for your pay-as-you-go mibile for f**k sake, I don't need to listen to your selfrighteous s**t aswell. If you don't pay your way, you don't get a say.
:kiss Thank you kindly Sir :kiss
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If I have offended anyone, I honestly don't care. Junkies, Dole-scum and thieves are not entitled to an opinion in my book. I feed your kid's and pay for your pay-as-you-go mibile for f**k sake, I don't need to listen to your selfrighteous s**t aswell. If you don't pay your way, you don't get a say.
It's nice to see so many Daily Mail readers post in these forums...
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It's nice to see so many Daily Mail readers post in these forums...
:agree Maybe the bishops have got a point.
We need a better way of determining who is 'deserving poor' and who isn't.
Likewise we need to figure out who is 'deserving rich' vs 'undeserving'.
And then all we need is a series of well managed concentration camps.
But before that, we could have a TRIAL ... :D
"Fred Goodwin.... Why did you buy ABN AMBRO for silly money and then run off with all Her Majesty's money?"
"I was only obeying orders .. capitalist orders given by M Thatcher, J Major, T Blair and G Brown"
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Mr DJ, having been made redundant twice in a year and having an occupation which is not in demand it's been difficult to get by however for the last 6 months we have paid our bills and haven't seen fit to impose upon your 20%....and your £800 pcm deductions...It pains me a little to think that until redundancy my deductions were almost double that. I guess what I am saying is my 20% over the past 35 years probably entitles me to an opinion in your value system therefore feel free to go make love and travel...As it happens looks like I shall be commuting up to Glasgow from Portsmouth on a weekly basis from next month..so don't harp on about commitment etc. We are not all the same and I don't like your sweeping generalisations and assumptions...
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But what we have is tax payers forking out for inflated rents paid to people with money invested in property. This all comes back to Maggie selling off the council stock, the privatisation of the welfare state.
Bollocks, there's more 'social housing' about now than there ever has been. All new developments must have at least 30% set aside for social housing. But look what it's done for the rest of us.
I moved into a rented flat about 5 years ago. New development where a few had been bought as buy to lets with the bulk bought by owner/occupiers. Those that had bought had been told that the development was being aimed at essential workers so there were a couple of teachers, a serviceman, a nurse, two coppers and the rest were all respectable, professional people (if you count a professional footballer as respectable). Even the rentals were let out to similar. But, on the opposite side of the road was an identical block that was bought by the local housing authority and filled with the dregs of society. I don't think one of them worked. The one directly opposite me had a couple with 3 kids under 4 and the obligatory Staffie. The only time this animal saw the outside world was when it was kicked out onto the balcony when it wanted a shit. In 3 years I don't think I saw her dressed in anything other than a dressing gown while sitting on her arse watching telly. Within 2 years the private owners were putting their places up for sale. Of those that managed to sell, it was at a loss, to others that were buying to let as nobody else would touch them. What had started out as a tidy looking, respectable area had turned into a slum and the amount of social housing increased even further. I'll give it another 5 years before all of it will be rentals.
I got out and, while I would have preferred to buy, moved into another rented place. This time a house, privately owned and in a village rather than a housing estate. The letting agent came last week to do an inspection and make sure I wasn't trashing the place. She was gobsmacked to find that I had pressure washed the driveway, repainted the garage door, repaired a drooping gutter and the place was cleaner than when I'd moved in. It may not be mine but I live here and want a place that I feel comfortable inviting friends and relatives to. Just because I don't own it doesn't mean I don't care about how it looks, unlike those that aren't paying the rent out of their own pocket. If you don't have to work for something, why should you care about it?
Getting back onto topic, I think a £26k cap is too high. I earn slightly over what this works out to as a salary. I pay my own rent, rates, utility bills and food. I own 3 cars and the bike, all bought and paid for, all taxed, Mot'd and insured and I still pay a percentage of the mortgage on the house I half own with my ex. If I can do that on a net take home of £28k (as my P60 is laying here having just done my tax return), why the hell should anybody be given almost as much for doing foc all?
Meanwhile non of you care or want to do anything about the big money, the 100's billions pounds evey year that rich people avoid in taxation every single year. The kind of money that can get this country out of the mess that's it 's in.
Not that nobody cares but it's totally irrelevant to this discussion.
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to my mind, this governments psycology is working ...all the attention is on how bad the welfare system is, how its to blame for everything. But then that is exactly how Thatcher worked, divide and conquer. FFS no tax payer wants to pay for ideleness, but all this posturing does is attack anyone who is a genuine case. And please do not be so facile as to suggest there are enough jobs out there for all the unemployed and they are on benefit just cos its better. There always is a residual amount of unemployed , possibly up to 1 million, made up of people who cannot work, dont want to work, or are between jobs. But the rest by and large are unemployed , looking for work. Yet somehow now, these people are being branded " scum"... FFs I cant believe how the worm has turned.Its like going back to the dark ages.
Our welfare state should support genuine cases, and the way its going , the tories will soon convince you there are none at all.
how long will it before the unemployed have to wear a special badge, and get herded into camps...
whilst no supporter of VNA, its incredible how much tax dodging by big companies goes on,big bonus culture is still rife etc... all of which escapes the media spotlight.Just remember it was not the poor , needy or unemployed who created this financial crisis...and witchhunts on them wont solve it either.
we need an welfare system based on need, which offers appropriate support , and more importantly a way out off welfare.Thats what we should be looking at.The decline of manufacturing in this country is as much to blame as a generous welfare state...we need more jobs and less reliance on imports.Get people working , paying taxes...thats how to balance the books, not by attempts to economically starve the needy.I never have believed we can sort the financial crisis out just by cutting what we spend...its a self defeating downward spiral. And to my mind, after 2 yrs of this government , we have a huge amount of unemployed and no debt reduction....I can see the UK bouncing along the bottom of this recession for years to come at this rate...
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So you have all my tax money! ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) The bulk of the cash is intended for the Landlord. How it gets there, or doesn't, I never commented on.
VNA, the cash is intended for the person on benefits to rent a roof over their heads at the prevailing market rate. If that means them moving across town to a similar property thats a lot cheaper then that it what has to be done.
If you think all landlords are rich Tory b'stards then you are very wrong as well as very nasty.
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Mr DJ, having been made redundant twice in a year and having an occupation which is not in demand it's been difficult to get by however for the last 6 months we have paid our bills and haven't seen fit to impose upon your 20%....and your £800 pcm deductions...It pains me a little to think that until redundancy my deductions were almost double that. I guess what I am saying is my 20% over the past 35 years probably entitles me to an opinion in your value system therefore feel free to go make love and travel...As it happens looks like I shall be commuting up to Glasgow from Portsmouth on a weekly basis from next month..so don't harp on about commitment etc. We are not all the same and I don't like your sweeping generalisations and assumptions...
Take it easy there BigMac. I aint talking about guys who have worked all their days are are put out of work because our country went into ressesion. If you look at my earlier post, I am talking about the lazy bas**rds who DON'T want to work. Who sit at home an do fek all all day, and bleed the system for everything they can without any contribution. You paid your dues, I have only been working for 16 years (as I'm 32) and am happy to pay for my part. And if and when I need it I expect it to be there. I do not, however, like to see my money paying for some chav's new tracksuit and wine. You get where I'm coming from here?
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In defence of my post and subsequent reply.
When I was at school there were NO pupils who left without qualifications and unable to read and write.
Why. Because there was discipline and pupils were not left to decide whether they attended school or not without consequence.
Nowadays there is no discipline from parents or teachers and it is considered normal to abuse or even assault teachers.
And FYI my son was recognised to be dyslexic and went on to university and graduated with a 2:1, as did my daughter who is epileptic.
So I believe I actually DO know what I'm talking about and I believe that by following your advice to ..."Maybe leave this sort of thing to eductional professionals?? is why this country is in the state it is.
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An investment banker, a Daily Mail reader and a welfare claimant are sitting round a plate with 12 biscuits on it.
The Investment banker takes 11 biscuits, then turns to the Daily Mail reader and says - "Watch out - that fucking scrounger is after your biscuit"
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oh we are lucky enough to have 64 plots of "social housing" built on a former factory site at the back of our house, whilst some of them have been given to local people, we now have the cream of Nottinghams unwanted social problems living right behind us. we are assured at the council meeting that these social houses were needed for "doctors, nurses, care workers" without whom we could not function as a town. why nottingham by the way in northants...... the houses were put out to tender, and there is a policy now to move certain families away from the area they came from to help them gain respect in a new neighbourhood !!!!!!!!!! and there was me thinking you earnt respect, buy not leaving sh*t everywhere
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Are you In or around glasgow dj? I'm looking. I must warn you tho, I get a government payout every fortnight
Yes, I am "in or around Glasgow". And if you get a giro, how the f**k can you afford a computer, never mind an internet connection? At least 20% of that is mine. ENJOY!
Ye can sing for yer 20% mate. I'm having it. In fact, i'm taking a chunk of all your wages SUCKAS!!!!!
I hope you lot are happy to learn that your hard earned tax dollars are keeping my local boozer afloat. I'll justify that by saying its a charity that funds many theatre and art projects, but i don't think about that as I WANTONLY TOSS YOUR HARD EARNED AT THE STAFF FOR TIPS!!!!! WOOO HOOO
ANDYNASTYVERY
The cash is intended for the landlord, but it gets paid to the tenant (in glasgow at least) to promote independence blah blah blah. They often don't get it cos we're all manky smackhead alkies.
So "She DOES get the cash"
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Woman from CITB on BBC news 24 reckons 45000 jobs going to be lost in Construction over the next few years.
So glad that that Deejay will be able to differentiate by tone of voice over the telephone between
I would NEVER rent to a jobless dole scum again. Recently I advertised my pad for rent on gumtree, clearly stating NO DSS. Still, these F**king idiots email asking if I will take DSS, or why I won't take DSS. I say, "Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."
And the poor sods
guys who have worked all their days are are put out of work because our country went into ressesion. If you look at my earlier post, I am talking about the lazy bas**rds who DON'T want to work. Who sit at home an do fek all all day, and bleed the system for everything they can without any contribution. You paid your dues, I have only been working for 16 years (as I'm 32) and am happy to pay for my part. And if and when I need it I expect it to be there. I do not, however, like to see my money paying for some chav's new tracksuit and wine. You get where I'm coming from here?
Amazing ability you have then Deejay. seeing as you couldn't figure out that somebody you'd known for 26 years would take the piss
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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4500 jobs to be lost in construction you say? To be honest I'm not surprised with my recent experience of 'trades' in London. Add in utilities to the pot of unreliable idiots with no professional pride or ability too!
it is interesting how DIY is so popular in this country. Most other places in the world pay people to do stuff because it is cheaper (in an opportunity cost calculation), less stressful and you get a better job done.
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4500 jobs to be lost in construction you say?
That would actually be in the regulated part of the industry, ie architects, technicians and qualified/acredited contractors on large projects. The 'loft conversion' type worker is not included in the figures.
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Ah, shame. aren't they getting any HS2 / Hammersmith underpass work then? Isn't the school building programme still happening? Government has committed to spend on council housing too. But I suppose office building, especially government office building has stalled.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/25/construction-industry-lose-45000-jobs-2012 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/25/construction-industry-lose-45000-jobs-2012)
4500 jobs to be lost in construction you say? To be honest I'm not surprised with my recent experience of 'trades' in London. Add in utilities to the pot of unreliable idiots with no professional pride or ability too!
Foc me did I just get tarred again :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Depends - do you work for EDF and agree an appointment for the meter to be changed with my wife a month ago? Was it you that didn't turn up to brighten my 'work from home' day? Or send the text saying the electrician would be there the day? I'm sure it wasn't you that i spoke to on the phone who said that date was what was recorded in the system but rescheduled for the next week. i really hope it wasn't you that turned up the following day to find no one home - what a waste of the electrician's time! I know it wasn't you that sent the first latter relating to the account as a second and final demand for payment (er, against what bill?) - because that was computer generated.
:rolleyes
If you are a builder who quotes for removing a wall without even bothering to poke yer head through the loft hatch to see if it is a supporting wall or not then you deserve the tarring! ;)
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Even the BBC seems to think it is too much judging from this article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185)
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I love the news tonight that the Indian government said they didn't want the £290M a year aid given by the UK and had to be begged to take it because it would embarass David Cameron if they didn't. They said it was peanuts..................
Ironic isn't it that the amout saved from the 26K cap is nearly exactly the same as the cost of avoiding David Cameron's embarassment
I still think its right not to pay people this much but next time the government winges about trying to find a million here or there I'm remember todays news
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Just remember where you read it!
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Rules in N.I.(UK) are different.Rent is capped at £290pm.If you're rent is any dearer you pay the discrepancy out of you,re own pocket.All DSS are not the same.I have been made redundant 3 times,with no big pay offs.Presently in a 1 year temp contract for NICS,which will end in July.Probably have to sign on again,unless i,m one of the fortunate ones.
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I love the news tonight that the Indian government said they didn't want the £290M a year aid given by the UK and had to be begged to take it because it would embarass David Cameron if they didn't. They said it was peanuts..................
Aid is an investment. It generally comes with strings attached. I haven't seen that news report. But it was generally understood that that aid package was tied to a large arms deal, a sweetener.
What I assume (my guess) is that the Indians are saying shove your arms deal. Or, you'll need to give us a much bigger sweetener before we buy the arms that we don't really need.
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I still think its right not to pay people this much but next time the government winges about trying to find a million here or there I'm remember todays news
While there is little doubt that the welfare system needs reform, it should not be a priority at this time.
Depending on whose figures you read, in 2010 bankers were paid between 6 and 13 billion pounds in bonuses. Don't ask me why the figure is so vague, but it's foccing huge. And that's basically our money, tax payers money.
And that's just bankers. What about the energy bosses, the supermarkets, and the subsidised railway bosses, etc etc etc etc. And all these companies use the welfare system to subsidise many of their workforce employment costs.
The there's the 'British' companies registered abroad in order to avoid paying billions upon billions of tax - massive tax avoidance. Along with non-doms, some of whom while paying no tax in the UK sit in the house of Lords making decisions on walfare reform!
The truth is we are all getting fucked to keep the so called 'elite', and those who wish to lick their arses, in the style in which they are accustomed.
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Rules in N.I.(UK) are different.Rent is capped at £290pm.If you're rent is any dearer you pay the discrepancy out of you,re own pocket.
Many years ago I was on benefits (Job Seekers Allowance and Rent Rebate) and the Council decided that, to save money, they were going to try to force private landlords to bring down rents on their properties, so they said they would cut £5 off my Rent Rebate and only pay £50 of the £55 rent I was charged (which was actually the standard going rate at the time).
But the Landlords had no intention of charging less rent, so this meant that I would have had to make up the £5 deficit from my JSA which is what the Government says is the minimum I needed to live on (and if the Government says it is the minimum, you can bet that that's the *bare* minimum!) leaving me having to find an extra £5 a week from somewhere (out of work, no jobs available, no savings, where from, exactly?!)
It took a couple of letters to my MP, but fortunately the Council backed down meaning I didn't end up being used as a politiical football.
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Yep! Know the feelin mate.Great topic - someones just opened up a real can of worms.Tho i have heard that some families in mainland on dss live in houses that a husband and wife (both working) could not afford.I think a cap needs to be implemented,but at a higher rate than proposed,and anyone out of work for more than a year should be forced to do community work.I wouldn.t object if it was me.
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I reiterate my above point ...the tactic is working - almost all on here are working class folk, and we are fighting amongst ourselves. Meanwhile the big picture gets foggy..
its not just bonuses either- I would not mind so much, but these bonuses are paid with little regard to performance and benefit to the nation. We should be asking what we want from our government.The present one is too partisan, too much pre- occupied with its years old doctrine and plan. I dont see how we can reduce the welfare state just by cutting the figures. We all know we have to spend less, but a caring government would be looking at best ways to do this, not just cut spending. Thats the easy bit.Our society has developed to where we are now over decades , its no simple thing to change it.
To me, as someone who has never claimed benefit, I still want a welfare system there to act as a safety net and a springboard back into work again. I dont see these reforms do help, cos just what is being done to get folk back into work, if there aint any jobs to go to ?
As for the % of the population who scrounge...well thats always been there...its just Tory bull to try to convince low intelligence people its some sort of recent phenomenon..You really need to ask yourself just why we have 3 million unemployed...listen...it is not because the benefit system is too generous !
As a construction worker I also feel the generalisations about my trade are ridiculous...its absurd tbh. Work is very hard to come by, and to judge our industry by the performance of firms like EDF is daft.There also is no regulation to stop anyone setting up as a builder, so with 3 million unemployed, is anyone surprised by an alarming rise in cowboys.?
Lastly , with regard to education, I cant recall a time when " everybody" exited school with qualifications, and indeed there were still people back then who struggled to read and write. You cant just blame parents for this either, its mostly down to the individual...if they have learning difficulties...its not because parents didnt try. Its yet another stupid generalisation.I will say that in my day there were better facilities for what we called " remedial" classes, whereas today the schools are only bothered with league tables, not trying equally for all pupils.what is different is today there is less discipline, and modern media is very good at disrupting attempts to do so... so many distracting things on offer today.
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I'm not sure if this is on-topic or not, but can anyone explain to me how hiking up business rates for small local businesses and putting them out of business is good for the economy?
I'm seeing it all over, and shops are left empty - it's not as if someone else comes along and pays the new inflated rate. How in the hell does this benefit *anyone* ?
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The rules on business rates changed a couple of years ago. It used to be that there were no, or reduced, rates payable on an empty property. Now the business rates have to be paid even if the place is empty. That's why some landlords have demolished perfectly good business premises. There is an upside to it though. If you want to rent a business unit that has been empty for ages, the landlord will often take a much lower rent for it as long as you take responsibility for the business rates. He may be making virtually nothing on the deal but at least it isn't costing him anything.
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The rules on business rates changed a couple of years ago. It used to be that there were no, or reduced, rates payable on an empty property. Now the business rates have to be paid even if the place is empty. That's why some landlords have demolished perfectly good business premises. There is an upside to it though. If you want to rent a business unit that has been empty for ages, the landlord will often take a much lower rent for it as long as you take responsibility for the business rates. He may be making virtually nothing on the deal but at least it isn't costing him anything.
That is seriously F*cked up! :eek
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I thought £26k was far too generous. Benefits should be capped at a level equivalent to the minimum wage.
If you ain't working expect to have live in a small house
If you ain't working expect to move to a cheaper area
If you ain't working you can't have sky plus, a new car, new mobile, 5000 inclusive minutes etc
If you want kids you pay for them, don't expect me to fund your breeding.
Bring back the workhouse, if you want something from the state, then give something to the state.
Simples. God I wish I was Prime Minister.
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P2N, all makes perfect sense to me.
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The problem is that most people on the minimum wage are on benefits.
Big wealthy companies, dodging billions in tax, paying big shareholder dividends and paying their board of directors millions upon millions of pounds in salaries, bonuses and pensions are shirking their responsibilites by paying large chunks of their hard working staff the minimun wage (or just over), rather than a living wage.
The result is that we the tax payer subsidise multi billion pound businesses and their greedy bosses.
Nor is this any help whatsoever to our economy.
Rich people hoard money, working people spend it.
As for people who cannot work I do not believe that they should be punished for this by being plunged into poverty.
Nor is it possible for 3 million unemployed people to pick up the few dozen jobs out there.
People need to wake up to why we are in this mess.
Is it those who are on benefits who have destroyed our industry, deregulated the banks, filled the pockets of the rich with billions, wrecked the economy and practically bankrupted the UK?
I don't think so.
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Simples. God I wish I was Prime Minister.
:thumbup you'd get my vote mate
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Bring back the workhouse, if you want something from the state, then give something to the state.
The modern version is the state pays a Private company to place claimants with private companies to work for free.
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/ (http://www.boycottworkfare.org/)
As always the taxpayer pays to support the profits of private industry again.
I just applied for the summer maintenance jobs on the council.
Fully expect that wit cuts these real jobs will disappear over the next few years to be replaced by workfare type placements.
Start using unemployed to fill jobs for their benefits , you lose the jobs.
And end up with everybody as a state employee much like the old soviet system
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and also if the Tories get in for a second term I fully expect the minimum wage to go as well.
It's definitely an obstacle to employment in their world.
So we the taxpayer. will probably end up paying out more in benefits(tax Credits)
to cover the fact we have millions in jobs that don't pay a living wage.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/damianreece/9042652/A-minimum-wage-can-be-beneficial-...-as-long-as-its-set-at-the-right-level.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/damianreece/9042652/A-minimum-wage-can-be-beneficial-...-as-long-as-its-set-at-the-right-level.html)
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Benefits should be there as they were designed, as a last safety net to prevent people starving. The problem now is that people can be classed as in poverty if they don't have sky TV. I agree they should be capped, but I would have it far lower than £26k.
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Benefits should be there as they were designed, as a last safety net to prevent people starving.
I never knew that benefits were simply designed to keep people from starving!
NOT!
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YES!
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If you want to live a life of luxury with beer, fags, Sky TV, mobiles, etc, bloody work to earn it. If you can't be arsed to work, then you've made your bed so lie in it. Different if you've been working but been made redundant but most of the people that are going to be affected by any benefits cap haven't.
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Yet there is a severe shortage of jobs.
And the severely disabled are going to be targetted by these reforms.
Is that the sort of country we want to live in, where some of the most vunerable in society, those with severe disabilities, only comfort is that they will perhaps not starve to death.
Meanwhile big companies will continue to get away with not paying a living wage, so the biggest savings in welfare reform will not be tackled. That's becuase it could effect some companies obscene profits and the massive dividends paid to wealthy shareholders.
Billions, if not trillions of pounds are simply vanishing into the hands of the stinking rich, while some of here gloat at the thought of some of the most vunerable in our society get by on starvation benefits.
Doh doh doh!
I reiterate my above point ...the tactic is working - almost all on here are working class folk, and we are fighting amongst ourselves.
Worryingly I find myself in total agreement with Pitternator. :eek
He's right the ordinary working man has been taken in by the crap he reads in his Daily Shit and Lies. Too stupid to see the wood for the trees.
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VNA
Its no shame to agree with me. I was born working class. We lived on small wages in a council house. We never claimed any benefits other than child benefit when it came out. It was a great boon to my mum. I studied hard , got my A levels, and onto uni for a economics degree. I now run my own building company, since 1988. I see myself as one of the few who did get out of the mire. I say that cos it aint a simple task.Education was my key , and parents who scrimped and saved,and encouraged me in my efforts.My parents came from a solid working class society but one where people stuck together..What I did get from my childhood was an immense realisation of how the rich had no care for the poor. I lived through many tory governments, and each one resorted to similar tactics like this one. They want minimal benefits to reduce their own taxation. It is that simple.The rich dont like forking out for the poor.In some ways I can see the argument , but its a purely selfish standpoint since they have access to money , and by and large jealously keep hold of it. Whilst I am no communist , I do believe that society should attempt to share its wealth , and the rich help to support the poor and needy. What is blurred today is the growth of the welfare state and the 12 years of relative prosperity in the Uk till 2007 meant we didnt focus where the cash was going. Now we are hacking away at the welfare state in desperation to cut a deficcit, which in my humble opinion I am sure will be self defeating , and could end up with a greater deficcit. We have a spending dearth in terms of demand, but a growing welfare burden which reduces demand further. It is a crisis of confidence and it i skilling this country.. We should be focusing on how we can up demand, cut imports as well as reviewing spending. So far all I have seen is this doctrinal purge of the welfare state and sod all other considerations. One cynic might say its the easy option , as it only hurts the non torys....I mean, cameroon will never be claiming benefit will he ?, and under his schemes, his private medical care will have easy access to NHS facilities..
Personally every one of us here should feel threatened by this government , it is a minority government whose agenda is really only focused on a minority of the population.
As hated as the lib dems are...imagine what the tories would be like given unfettered power !!
My biggest concern is not now...its the next general election , where I really can see a possibility of the tories getting enuff votes to get a majority ...as labour voters are brainwashed and persuaded to vote tory , and lib dems lose popular support because of their association with this government.
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'...as labour voters are brainwashed'
Yep - that's why they're Labour voters :lol :lol :lol
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Some good points here but two more
Some people claiming benefits are only on benefits because they have been made redundant due to the crisis and the cuts- before that they may have never had a day off work but been chucked on the scrap heap.... and now I cant remember the other one :rolleyes it will come back to me (its my age :'( ) when I am not so stressed for working long hours for reasonable pay- I guess I am lucky I have a job .... still!
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Its no shame to agree with me.
But it's still a bit of a worry ;)
I agree with the general tone of your posts on this subject, but not so much of the detail.
They want minimal benefits to reduce their own taxation. It is that simple.
It's not quite that simple. Thatcher part privatised welfare, in particular housing. She got rid of the bulk of the council houses. Now while working people could invest in their own property, though only later to find themselves totally and utterly priced out of the market, not many could invest in property to rent. That was the preserve of the better off. So the Tories, albeit Tories further down the chain than our elite millionaire public schools boys in government, are one of the biggest recipients of benefits, and a lot of what passes for private DSS rental property is very much sub standard. There's a massive amount of wasted cash here, again all going into wealthy pockets.
What is blurred today is the growth of the welfare state and the 12 years of relative prosperity in the Uk till 2007 meant we didnt focus where the cash was going.
You are right there, Brown's miracle economy , one based on ever rising asset value and no more bust (Gordon Brown must go down in history as the UK's worst ever chancellor) meant that nobody was paying that much attention to the benefits bill. But even today that bill is utterly insignificant compared to the day light robbery and legal fraud being committed by big corporations and their rich friends. And that is what is strangling the economy, not benefits payments - of course as you know. Oh of course PPP has stuffed us as well, but with ever rising asset prices (not) that wasn't supposed to be a problem, but now it is, and a big foccing problem at that.
Personally every one of us here should feel threatened by this government
Indeed, it's a disaster. Look Blair's government was a disaster too, cos they wanted to be like the Tories, but now we have something even worse the bloody Tories themselves :\ .
it is a minority government whose agenda is really only focused on a minority of the population.
No it's not a minority government, it should have been, but it's not. There was only ever one reason for the Lid Dems taking on a suicide mission and jumping into bed with the Tories, and that was to get voter reform for what is basically a dying democracy. They failed, and now they will be wiped out, and wiped out for nothing.
They should have either got a guarantee of voter reform or left the Tories to it. Despite the SNP forming a minority government in Scotland in 2007, and doing so because a party that had much in common with them - The Lid Dems - refused to enter into a coalition with them, the same party down south seemed to think that leaving the Tories to minority rule was not an option! Of course it was, it was obvious and would have been a political master stroke. As you say the Tories look after their own interests and only their own interests, such narrow minded selfish bastards would never survive a whole term of minority government and would end up being wiped out at an inevitable half term general election. And just think with the hapless Ed milliband now at the helm, who seems to have become suddenly confused as to what The Labour Party is supposed to be about now that he's in the driving seat, well the Lid Dems might have even taken a majority!
So yeah you are right about the next election, as it stands we are heading for a Tory landslide.
And as for us in Scotland. 17 years of Tory rule, we never voted, subsequently delivered devolution. Scotland again is looking at 10 - 20 years of Tory rule, I think we'll bail out of the UK before the next general election. Which sadly leaves England with a Tory government for quite some time.
The only positive out of this, is that I think this is the last Tory government that will rule over me in my lifetime. :D
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The only positive out of this, is that I think this is the last Tory government that will rule over me in my lifetime. (http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif)
Don't do it Andy, we'll all miss your wit and humour :rolleyes
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Don't fret LT, I'll still be here.
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tax or spend?
labour, conservative or liberal?
Oh well, look on the bright side, at least the Greens aren't in power.... Cars banned, Bikes banned, windmills everywhere ....
Wonder how long it would take to get to work on a Donkey? :lol
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my basic mesage is there is no easy answer, but the burden of the spending cuts needs to be balanced across the economy. And it needs to be part of a package to revive the economy. Paradoxically I believe we do need to reduce welfare costs, but borrow to stimulate the economy. Any worker idle on benefit is a waste to the nation. Our welfare state does encourage single mums to have more kids, immigrants get full benefit package while domestic workers can get almost nothing, the list is quite long ...there is just too much wrong with how benefits are assessed ,and lack incentives for return to work. But for any return to work to happen, we do need jobs for people to go to.
The severe housing shortage should be addressed by a national building programme. This would directly stimulate the construction sector and have demand knock ons for the whole economy.If we had plenty of cheap affordable housing , private landlords wont have a noose on rental levels...
George osbourne is sitting in his ivory tower just like norman lamont did...and both are doomed to failure.
Personally I dont think brown was " worst chancellor" ..if you review his achievements over the first 2 labour governments it was very upbeat. His issue was trusting Blair who basically sold him down the river, gave him the poisoned chalice...and I still believe darlings method of deficcit reduction would have been more effective and fair than this present government. Trouble is he was discredited by the bankling crisis, which in reality was not something I believe anyone could have controlled at the time. My biggest fear , like VNA is because demand management is discredited in the populaces eyes...osbournes methods willbe perceived as the only way out. Yes we absolutely have to reduce the deficcit , but in an imaginative and positive way, which the tories just cant or wont do.
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Personally I don't think brown was " worst chancellor" ..if you review his achievements over the first 2 labour governments it was very upbeat.
Not really - he mistook the unsustainable bubble for genuine growth (so when it popped we ended up f**ked) and also used a load of slight of hand tricks - some of the benefits he introduced were so universal that practically every family qualified, so if we all qualified for money from the government where did that come from? Tax of course! A big merry go round, tax to pay for the handouts we all got with the civil service skimming off a wage in the process. £10 tax -> £8 benefit :rollin
Borrow for investment? Borrow from China to pay for more shopping malls to sell more junk made by China. Now China is rich and we are bust.
Time to curtail the tax/benefit merry go round. No more handouts.
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What Brown got, was a tenure in No11 through some of the most benign world economic conditions in many years - and he was big headed enough to think it was all his doing cos he's such a good chancellor. No more boom and bust, my arse.
The man's a clueless w@nker, and Darling was no better. The way the pair of them dithered and didn't make a decision - any decision - for days during the run on Northern Rock made the situation far worse; for the folks queuing on the street, for the rest of the banking industry, for NR itself, for the tax payer (as it made the situation worse than it needed to be). Any decision better than no decision, but it took them days to do anything (guarantee the savers funds). Whether that decision was right or not is perhaps another discussion, but it should have been made (one way or the other) much sooner.
The man's a clueless w@nker, and it good to see that he's vanished into the ether since the election. Apart from an attempt to put himself forward for the IMF job (Government corridors around the world are still echoing to the laughter on that one), has he been seen / consulted on anything?
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immigrants get full benefit package while domestic workers can get almost nothing
That's a rather sweeping statement, and frankly one that is not true.
he mistook the unsustainable bubble for genuine growth
Soaring shares, increasing debt level and soaring house prices should have had big loud alarm bells ringing. Brown's miracle economy was built on cheap credit and rising asset prices. It would be interesting to know how many times the world's worst (and unqualified banker) visited No.11, Goodwin was pals with Brown, and indeed it was Brown that got him knighted.
No these fools thought asset values could and would rise forever, that cheap credit was here to stay and that boom and bust was now a thing of the past. What they did was create a massive boom and the biggest bust ever. Incompetent fools.
Now China is rich and we are bust.
China is not rich. In terms of wealth based against population the UK is stinking rich compared to China, however just like China the big bucks are in the hands of the few. And they will hang onto it at any cost. The difference is we can change it, but that ain't gonna happen while the working man frets about irrelevant welfare payments.
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From the Money Saving Expert site: I'm on benefits, but I'm no scrounger (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/reclaim/2012/02/im-on-benefits-but-dont-call-me-a-scrounger)
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'China is not rich. In terms of wealth based against population the UK is stinking rich compared to China'
You're confusing the Chinese people with China the country. China the country is very, very rich, and the rest of the world should better watch their arses!!
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You're confusing the Chinese people with China the country. China the country is very, very rich, and the rest of the world should better watch their arses!!
:agree - China has over 3000 Billion USD in foreign reserves, around 2.5 times that of the 2nd country on the list (Japan). The USA, by comparision, has just 148 billion USD in foreign reserves.
When you compare those figures, with the USA having the largest GDP $14,660,000,000,000 and China second with $10,090,000,000,000, there is no way you can claim China is not a very rich country.
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And the USD is worth ????? :rollin
Sooner we get back on a gold standard the better, then we will have some promissory notes that actually have a value.
Maybe we won't have theses bang busts then. because banks will actually have to hold the values that they are lending instead of creating numbers on a screen.
You know like the days when we had building societies that couldn't lend more cash than they Held,. so that they couldn't contribute to housing bubbles.
Which is what after all brought this current pile down on our heads.
gotta love that Maggie Ronnie Liberalisation of the markets.
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VNA discredited again shocker ;lol :lol
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<i>You're confusing the Chinese people with China the country. China the country is very, very rich, and the rest of the world should better watch their arses!!</i>
So obviously one would want to live in the 2nd richest country in the world, rather than the poor old UK (no.7)
Average salary in the UK - 30,000 pounds per annum
Average salary in China - 9000 pounds per annum
Typical rural salaries are about 1500 pounds per annum.
VNA discredited again shocker ;lol ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])
How exactly?
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You're confusing the Chinese people with China the country.
Sorry for the large text folks, but apparently Andy can't read it when it's all small and normal...
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I have no problem with the cap on banefits but I do have a problem with how the whole chainges to benefits are been handled
my wife is disabled, she had to go for a medical for the new ESA, after which they deemed my wife fit for work. She has arthritis throughout %80 of her body, IBS which means she has next to no control of her bowels when they start to act up, she is diabetic so has to watch what she eats which adds only to the IBS thing.
the woman who did her medical did not put any of my wife's medical problems down in her assessment, in that acording to this "medical Professional" she dose not have any problems standing sitting with her bowels with her grip, and we now have to go through the long winded appeals process, but in the mean time we are trying to run our house on £380 per month ie gas electric food phone TV licence. We are not scroungers but I stopped work a year ago to look after my wife and I do some volentere work where i can
You tell me how many people in here think that the people like us and the thousands like me and the wife should have to pay for the greed of the government and the bankers, we don't have much and it seams like the poorest are the ones been asked to do the most sacrificing.
one last thing my gas bill turned up today £190 for gas and electric for the month as I cant let the house get too cold or my wife will be in pain
Rant over