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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: arieljt on 02 August 2014, 07:08:10 pm
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Hello everyone!
I'm new to this community and today I bought my first Yamaha Fazer 600 99' (fuel injection) :D
Sadly, I didn't pay much attention to the fact that the tachometer is trying to tell me something and I made the deal.
What happens is that the tacho jumps from 0 to 5K again and again and again regardless if the engine is running or not, besides that everything about the bike is great!
I tried to look for manuals or around the forum but I only found info about 3K and 7K and even 4K errors but nothing on 5K. :(
Please help me out, It really ruined the experience for me and I'm afraid to run the bike before I know whats the error.
Thanks!
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sounds like it is the Throttle Position Sensor in setup mode. Unplug the wiring loom from the TPS on the side of the carbs, clean the contacts on both loom and TPS terminal side using Contact Cleaner
Then turn on ignition whilst TPS disconnected, then reconnect TPS still with ignition on then turn ignition off back on and restart
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sounds like it is the Throttle Position Sensor in setup mode. Unplug the wiring loom from the TPS on the side of the carbs, clean the contacts on both loom and TPS terminal side using Contact Cleaner
Then turn on ignition whilst TPS disconnected, then reconnect TPS still with ignition on then turn ignition off back on and restart
Thank you for helping out, you mentioned carbs, will it work with my fazer even though it is fuel injection and not carburated?
And I need to find a good manual with instructions on where is the TPS located, I never had such an advance bike
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Hi arieljt.
Welcome to the forum.
Some questions so that the people in the know can help you a bit more:-
- are you in the United Kingdom?...or another country?.
- is your bike a 1999 Yamaha FZS600 Fazer?.
- do you have a picture of the bike?.
Thanks
Nog
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sounds like it is the Throttle Position Sensor in setup mode. Unplug the wiring loom from the TPS on the side of the carbs, clean the contacts on both loom and TPS terminal side using Contact Cleaner
Then turn on ignition whilst TPS disconnected, then reconnect TPS still with ignition on then turn ignition off back on and restart
Thank you for helping out, you mentioned carbs, will it work with my fazer even though it is fuel injection and not carburated?
And I need to find a good manual with instructions on where is the TPS located, I never had such an advance bike
It will be on the side of the injectors then. Right side when your sat on bike. Big black thing. You can't miss it
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Am i missing something here?
A 98/99 FZS600 is carbed not injected.
Do a search above for TPS, i've written the error codes in several posts.
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Am i missing something here?
A 98/99 FZS600 is carbed not injected.
Do a search above for TPS, i've written the error codes in several posts.
Yeah. The OP says FI but I thought FI came years later... until the fz6
BTW I searched TPS and couldn't find your thread on error codes. I already have them but thought I'd mention it
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Sorry for causing misunderstandings, i'm not sure myself of the exact model, its 99 and it's fuel injections.
I recently moved to Germany and bought this bike, here are some pictures I already had:
(http://imgur.com/QZG9TuI.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/Q88XZjo.jpg)
I can take more pictures tomorrow as it's dark and raining now, and thank you all once again for helping!
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That's not fuel injection
They didn't do fi in 99 on fazer
I can see the carbs, right side of bike (your 1st pic) and I can see the TPS on the side with a white plug and it's to the left of the cooling fins on side of carbs 15cm before the rubber protector for the fuel tank . All on the first picture
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That's not fuel injection
They didn't do fi in 99 on fazer
I can see the carbs, right side of bike (your 1st pic) and I can see the TPS on the side with a white plug and it's to the left of the cooling fins on side of carbs 15cm before the rubber protector for the fuel tank . All on the first picture
Well, apparently the guy was full of shit I guess, thanks for pointing out. Is this the TPS?:
(http://imgur.com/1ADvkz6.jpg)
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Hello again
Looks like quite a nice bike.....and as keratis says it is a Carb engine, not fuel injected........FZS600 fazer.
The fazer was not fuel injected until 2003 with the FZ6 fazer.
Anyway that is by the by....you need to sort out your 5k tacho issue......as Darrsi says if you use the search function on this forum he has listed the different codes and meanings of different tacho needle indications.
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Yes. That is the TPS
Try what I suggested and also...
follow Darrsi's guide
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Thanks! I looked for codes regarding 5K techo, but didn't find, so i'll search for the TPS guide and will report back.
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i Repeat. Try what I suggested and tell us what happens
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Thanks! I looked for codes regarding 5K techo, but didn't find, so i'll search for the TPS guide and will report back.
I searched TPS and found the following recent thread...take a slow read through it and there will be useful info for you.......at a quick glance it looks like 5K is a good code but that you need to complete the setting up process......but dont quote me on that as i only glanced at the thread and I've never done it before.
Here is the thread.
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,13864.msg157056.html#msg157056 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,13864.msg157056.html#msg157056)
Good luck.
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i Repeat. Try what I suggested and tell us what happens
Will do, tomorrow everything is closed and I don't have any contact cleaning spray, so the day after that i'll report back.
Thank you once again! :)
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you might not need the contact cleaner. The electrics could have got "stuck". If doing what I suggest doesnt clear the error (rev counter showing 5,000) then clean contacts. If still 5,000 then we need to diagnose the electrics which I can help with if needed.
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Thanks! I looked for codes regarding 5K techo, but didn't find, so i'll search for the TPS guide and will report back.
I searched TPS and found the following recent thread...take a slow read through it and there will be useful info for you.......at a quick glance it looks like 5K is a good code but that you need to complete the setting up process......but dont quote me on that as i only glanced at the thread and I've never done it
Thank you, I thought about the possibility that the TPS is stuck (?) at the setup mode, but in my case the tacho shows 5K regardless if I plug the TPS cable out and in, I don't know what I can do in that case.
I've tried what keratos suggested - cleaning the contacts but its still the same.
Here's a video:
http://videobam.com/pyvmM (http://videobam.com/pyvmM)
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OK. We can test the electrics. My hunch is that the TPS is faulty or the wiring to it is faulty.
Have you got a multimeter that tests for CONTINUITY and RESISTANCE . if not you need to by one. Prices's vary to quality. Mine cost £350 but you can pick a simple one up from an automotive shop for less than £20. Come back when you have one and we run a few tests
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OK. We can test the electrics. My hunch is that the TPS is faulty or the wiring to it is faulty.
Have you got a multimeter that tests for CONTINUITY and RESISTANCE . if not you need to by one. Prices's vary to quality. Mine cost £350 but you can pick a simple one up from an automotive shop for less than £20. Come back when you have one and we run a few tests
I have a good old fluke multimeter! Please guide me through :D
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OK.
access the ignitor unit. Its under the rear cowling so you will need to take this off. Take off grab bars. (4 allen bolts). Take off cowling note the screws under the cowling (metal and those plastic type things) underneath on both sides of the cowling. The ignitor unit has several plugs (harness) going into it; one harness has three wires of colour: BLUE, YELLOW, BLACK/BLUE . Remove that harness. Remove the TPS harness at the TPS sensor end (you've already done that if you have followed my instruction above). TPS Harness has the same colours. You now have two harnesses in your hand which are both ends of the TPS lead (one from TPS, one into Ignitor) Using the meter in CONTINUITY mode, check for continuity across all three wires. ie. touch BLUE on one harness end, touch BLUE on the other harness. "BEEP" ?? If three BEEPS (three colours) come back. If not then check your wiring for breaks/faults - which will be a nightmare as you will need to remove the TPS wiring from the bike so that you are holding these two harnesses on a workbench as one single end to end cable.
If you get three BEEPS, come back - wiring is good and the fault is likely to be the TPS unit which we can check simply and replace simply
As you own a fluke I'm presuming you are not a novice in electrics so am I ok to dispense with the electrical dumbing down - so as not to unduly patronise you and make this post much simpler :b
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OK.
access the ignitor unit. Its under the rear cowling so you will need to take this off. Take off grab bars. (4 allen bolts). Take off cowling note the screws under the cowling (metal and those plastic type things) underneath on both sides of the cowling. The ignitor unit has several plugs (harness) going into it; one harness has three wires of colour: BLUE, YELLOW, BLACK/BLUE . Remove that harness. Remove the TPS harness at the TPS sensor end (you've already done that if you have followed my instruction above). TPS Harness has the same colours. You now have two harnesses in your hand which are both ends of the TPS lead (one from TPS, one into Ignitor) Using the meter in CONTINUITY mode, check for continuity across all three wires. ie. touch BLUE on one harness end, touch BLUE on the other harness. "BEEP" ?? If three BEEPS (three colours) come back. If not then check your wiring for breaks/faults - which will be a nightmare as you will need to remove the TPS wiring from the bike so that you are holding these two harnesses on a workbench as one single end to end cable.
If you get three BEEPS, come back - wiring is good and the fault is likely to be the TPS unit which we can check simply and replace simply
As you own a fluke I'm presuming you are not a novice in electrics so am I ok to dispense with the electrical dumbing down - so as not to unduly patronise you and make this post much simpler :b
Two things
1. Unplug the TPS turn on the ignition switch, does the rev counter remain at 0 or go to 3000.
now Plug the TPs back in, what does the rev counter do?
2. Keratos, You electrical test advice is good, but there is no need to remove the grab rail or remove the cowling to disconnect the ECU.
Remove the rear stop/tail light unit to give access. it is held on with to 10mm bolts behind the tool kit, you can then undo the connecters to the ECU. Have done this loads of time when fault finding and testing ECUs. A bit fiddley but a lot less hassle than removing all the cowling if you have a Givi Carrier fitted.
3. Not all meters have a beep system :)
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Ahem, with respect...
Remove cowling makes it easier
He has a fluke so it has a beep system
He didn't need to do your test because he had already put the TPS in setup mode and it goes to 5k
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Just making a point for those who may not know and have a rear rack fitted. :)
15 minutes will have the tail light out, your ECU to TPS test done and all back together. How can I be so sure, I did it yesterday :)
The simplest thing to do is remove the TPS.
Check the carburettor to ensure the projection end in not broken or damaged.
Turn the TPS using a flat screwdriver to see if the Rev counter changes and if it does replace the TPS if it remains at 5000 replace the TPS.
The TPS can go high resistance, but that would show 10K.
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Good point. I should provide info making no assumptions as to who may read this thread in future. Good point
Yea 15 to 20 mins is what it took me and I removed the cowling :lol but we shall see if he can do it with or without removal of cowling.... I prefer to remove for ease of access and I have a Givi top box on so it involved a bit more, but only a few minutes.
He should first check the wiring through, to remove that potential from the problem domain as any TPS issue may be masked or affected by poor connections/wiring. Its a simple check. Then move to the TPS after we have confirmed good wiring/connections from TPS to ICU.
Just a minor point , an ECU = Electronic Control Unit as far as my electronic engineering MSc went - also referred to as ECM (Electronic Control Module) which are typically multifunctional and manage various logic circuits associated with automotive applications - new vehicles ECU are quite advanced and include all sorts of applications from tyre pressure to advanced driving modes. However this subject Fazer unit is - as I observe the simple wiring diagram - only preoccupied with the service of the ignition system so technically is an ICU (Ignition control unit) although yamaha termed it a Ignitor. Very minor point not changing the diagnostic for arieljt
EDIT: I'm off to my usual Sunday lunchtime pint and scampi in a minute so please carry on with unfazed who is familiar with TPS problems and more learned with a Fazer than moi !.
Dont forget to check the TPS resistance arieljt:
1. disconnect TPS harness from TPS unit
2. Measure resistance across the TPS terminal where the BLUE and BLACK.BLUE wires connect. this is the TPS terminals not the harness. should be 3.5 to 6.5 +/- 0.5 Kohms
3. Measure resistance across YELLOW and BLACK/BLUE TPS Terminals whilst moving the throttle. again , TPS terminals not the harness. should be zero to 5 +/- 1.5 Kohms
if either of these readings are out , then replace the TPS. If ok and wiring ok then the ICU needs replacing
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OK.
access the ignitor unit. Its under the rear cowling so you will need to take this off. Take off grab bars. (4 allen bolts). Take off cowling note the screws under the cowling (metal and those plastic type things) underneath on both sides of the cowling. The ignitor unit has several plugs (harness) going into it; one harness has three wires of colour: BLUE, YELLOW, BLACK/BLUE . Remove that harness. Remove the TPS harness at the TPS sensor end (you've already done that if you have followed my instruction above). TPS Harness has the same colours. You now have two harnesses in your hand which are both ends of the TPS lead (one from TPS, one into Ignitor) Using the meter in CONTINUITY mode, check for continuity across all three wires. ie. touch BLUE on one harness end, touch BLUE on the other harness. "BEEP" ?? If three BEEPS (three colours) come back. If not then check your wiring for breaks/faults - which will be a nightmare as you will need to remove the TPS wiring from the bike so that you are holding these two harnesses on a workbench as one single end to end cable.
If you get three BEEPS, come back - wiring is good and the fault is likely to be the TPS unit which we can check simply and replace simply
As you own a fluke I'm presuming you are not a novice in electrics so am I ok to dispense with the electrical dumbing down - so as not to unduly patronise you and make this post much simpler :b
I see one unit with two harnesses coming into it, is it this one?:
(http://imgur.com/NeiwQOl.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/z0nwfDm.jpg)
EDIT: Could it be that this TPS is not original?:
(http://imgur.com/3OtCH13.jpg)
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That is it.
Yes is is a standard TPS, it is made by Mikuni
Do you have the security torx to open the bolts on the TPS.
The yamaha service manual has a section on the TPS, but needs to be searched using Throttle position system and is on pages 6-10 and 6-11. It also explains how to test it off and on the bike.
I would be surprised if the ECU or Ignitor as Yamaha call it is faulty since they are extremely reliable and rarely fail.
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Just picking this up on my phone now...
That IS your ICU (although there should be more than two harnesses going into it. Never mind. And that IS your TPS. Good. Right... There are Three colours coming out of the harness from the TPS. Look for a harness going into the ICU with same three colours... Then run the tests I gave above
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Just a minor point , an ECU = Electronic Control Unit as far as my electronic engineering MSc went - also referred to as ECM (Electronic Control Module) which are typically multifunctional and manage various logic circuits associated with automotive applications - new vehicles ECU are quite advanced and include all sorts of applications from tyre pressure to advanced driving modes. However this subject Fazer unit is - as I observe the simple wiring diagram - only preoccupied with the service of the ignition system so technically is an ICU (Ignition control unit) although yamaha termed it a Ignitor. Very minor point not changing the diagnostic for arieljt
Does the Acronym ECU also stands for Engine control Unit :lol
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Possibly. Who knows. All I can deduce from the wiring diagram is that the subject unit I refer to as an ICU -ignition control unit-is only controlling ignition. Not the engine perse, not the other electronics, nothing else bar ignition
For example, an ECU on a given vehicle might control alarm,immobilser, instrumentation, RPM, braking, auto transmission, warnings, speed (limp mode) Etc etc so in that context... not limited to engine only, hence Electronic Control Unit / module.
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I'm looking at the pics...
Could it be that your TPS color leads are as follows
BLUE = your green
YELLOW = YOUR YELLOW
BLACK/BLUE = your white red
Lke I said ... check at the TPS end and at ICU end. Three colours will be the same at both ends... Then run the tests I gave advice on
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.,.
Does the Acronym ECU also stands for Engine control Unit :lol
+1 for the correct term ...'Acronymn' rather than using 'abbreviation' ... Perfect grammar !
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so how is the testing going ??? is it a case of no news = good news
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.,.
Does the Acronym ECU also stands for Engine control Unit :lol
+1 for the correct term ...'Acronymn' rather than using 'abbreviation' ... Perfect grammar !
What else would you expect from an ex college lecturer of Management Information Systems :rolleyes :)
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geek! :book :sun
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Welcome to the club :lol
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Welcome to the club :lol
I inserted some smileys into the last post but they didnt appear so the "geek" hopefully wasnt taken out of context. smileys reinserted
so we have student and lecturer - although admittedly 'twas a long time since I left uni :deal
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:lol
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so how is the testing going ??? is it a case of no news = good news
I wish :rolleyes and no, I wouldn't disappear like that :)
I just tested the continuity and the cables are good. Even if i move them around there is no problem with them.
Now, for the resistance, I didn't understand where do I test it, can someone please clarify?
btw, you guys rock! thank you all for helping :D
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Have you downloaded the service manual from here? Yamaha FZS600 1998 Service Manual 5dm1-ae1 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=8)
Go to page 6-10 and follow the tests with the TPS on the bike.
Let us know the results
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I don't think the manual is going to help. The wiring colour codes are different.
See my post above.
Arieljt... Please read the posts before replying !
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I didn't see you edited it, sorry for that.
I followed your guide and the manual now and its seems that the TPS unit is faulty, the resistance is 20-26 M ohm and it's the same between the black-blue and the black-yellow. I tested numerous times and even tested my fluke multimeter with simple resistors just to make sure its not the fluke fault.
Could it be that it's the TPS? because if I leave it disconnected and start ignition the tachometer still does the same thing as in the video i posted.
Now i'm wondering if I should buy a new TPS unit? (where in Germany?) or I should go to a bike service garage? (and possible have them overcharge and lie to me)
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I didn't see you edited it, sorry for that.
I followed your guide and the manual now and its seems that the TPS unit is faulty, the resistance is 20-26 M ohm and it's the same between the black-blue and the black-yellow. I tested numerous times and even tested my fluke multimeter with simple resistors just to make sure its not the fluke fault.
Could it be that it's the TPS? because if I leave it disconnected and start ignition the tachometer still does the same thing as in the video i posted.
Now i'm wondering if I should buy a new TPS unit? (where in Germany?) or I should go to a bike service garage? (and possible have them overcharge and lie to me)
Where does the needle go when you unplug the TPS with the ignition switched on (not with engine running)?
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Is this correct?
With everything plugged in and you turn on the ignition switch the rev counter goes to 5000 and then slowly returns to 0?
With the TPS disconnected it does the same thing?
With everything connected, Start the engine and leave it running for 5 minutes. What happens with the rev counter?
Post the result/s as it could be an issue with the clocks?????
Just to satisfy me and to absolutely sure you are performing the test correctly.
1. Disconnect the TPS
2. Attach the meter leads to the 2 outer pins of the TPS unit on the Carburettor? What is the reading?
3. Now Attach the meter to the lower and centre pins of the TPS. What is the reading?
4. Now with the meter still attached to the lower pin and middle pin, twist the throttle slowly to fully throttle. What is the result on the meter as you twist the throttle and when it is at full throttle?
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ditto unfazed - indeed, thats what I said isnt it?
anyway, if he's reading 20 MEGA (note the M guys in his post above) - 20Mohms - then this is way way way out; the system will behave as if there is no TPS which will give the results he is observing on the tacho. not sure it is a clocks issue? the behaviour is as expected according to the measurements he has provided.
Replace TPS - £20-30
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Yes, but you did not put a simply as I did :lol
I am just using simply logic, since we cannot see what Arieljt is doing it is important to double check what he tested to be sure rather than assuming, jumping to conclusions and misdiagnosis. :) I am surprised to think that you would not to do this :pokefun
Out of curiosity, how did you conclude from a photograph that the wiring colour codes were different?
The smaller plug has the wire to power via fuse, earth, ignition coils and the speedo reference. The larger obscured plug in the photograph has the wires to the TPS, Rev counter, pick up coil, starter cut out relay and alarm system.
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Where does the needle go when you unplug the TPS with the ignition switched on (not with engine running)?
It doesn't change a thing if the TPS is connected or not, still moves from 0-5K.
With everything plugged in and you turn on the ignition switch the rev counter goes to 5000 and then slowly returns to 0? Yes
With the TPS disconnected it does the same thing? Yes
With everything connected, Start the engine and leave it running for 5 minutes. What happens with the rev counter? Only 0-5K as always
Post the result/s as it could be an issue with the clocks????? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure the TPS is faulty
Just to satisfy me and to absolutely sure you are performing the test correctly.
1. Disconnect the TPS - Check
2. Attach the meter leads to the 2 outer pins of the TPS unit on the Carburettor? What is the reading? Around 20Mohm - 26Mohm
3. Now Attach the meter to the lower and centre pins of the TPS. What is the reading? 23Mohm
4. Now with the meter still attached to the lower pin and middle pin, twist the throttle slowly to fully throttle. What is the result on the meter as you twist the throttle and when it is at full throttle? It reacts to the throttle twist and it moves from ~23Mohm to 1.5 Kohm
I just got back from a Yamaha garage, told them about the 0-5K and they say they are not sure what it is. They set me an appointment for the 14th of August for 25Minutes (lol so precise Germans) of testing of the electrical system and the TPS. They are pretty damn expensive so I would like to buy the TPS myself - Original and give it to them to install, Can someone please link me to a original yamaha TPS for my fazer 600 99'? looked over ebay with no success..
I also called they guy that sold me the bike to tell him about my adventure and he was very unpleasant and told me that it's 100% my problem.
Once again, you guys rock, thank you all so much for helping out.
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If the TPS is unplugged it will show 3000rpm, which would suggest the TPS is not the problem.
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Replace TPS . there are many sources, bit sure about Germany but most eruo parts suppliers ship to DE.
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If the TPS is unplugged it will show 3000rpm, which would suggest the TPS is not the problem.
Not if the system is in setup mode.. Or the fault characterises a setup mode loop circuit. Of his readings.. I say replace TPS. end. Can't add any more. Not interested in a flameout so, arieljt.... REPLACE TPS .end of. Not entering into argumentitve dispute so good luck
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I have seen clocks do amazing thing and it is always wise to keep an open mind when fault finding.
Yes it looks like the TPS as 20 Megohms is definitely wrong. should go from about 5k to about 1.5k
The Yamaha boxed TPS is over €250 and the OEM part number is 4SV-85885-00, but it was superseded by part number 4HD-85885-00 whereas the Suzuki boxed one part number 13550-13D60 is exactly the same and costs about €90.
Check ebay for a secondhand one as they are the same as the ones fitted to the early carburettor R1s.
Fazer spares in Bristol Uk have a used TPS http://www.fazerspares.com/items/131-1_3128-throttle-positioning-sensor---tps.htm (http://www.fazerspares.com/items/131-1_3128-throttle-positioning-sensor---tps.htm). I have bought many items from them over the years and found them to be good to deal with and will probably post to your area
Let me know as I always have a spare one just would have to go looking for it.
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I have seen clocks do amazing thing and it is always wise to keep an open mind when fault finding.
Yes it looks like the TPS as 20 Megohms is definitely wrong. should go from about 5k to about 1.5k
The Yamaha boxed TPS is over €250 and the OEM part number is 4SV-85885-00, but it was superseded by part number 4HD-85885-00 whereas the Suzuki boxed one part number 13550-13D60 is exactly the same and costs about €90.
Check ebay for a secondhand one as they are the same as the ones fitted to the early carburettor R1s.
Fazer spares in Bristol Uk have a used TPS [url]http://www.fazerspares.com/items/131-1_3128-throttle-positioning-sensor---tps.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.fazerspares.com/items/131-1_3128-throttle-positioning-sensor---tps.htm[/url]). I have bought many items from them over the years and found them to be good to deal with and will probably post to your area
Let me know as I always have a spare one just would have to go looking for it.
Always handy to have a spare TPS in yer pocket, you just never know when they're gonna break down....... :lol
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and a spare set of clocks, regulator, alternator, carburettors, coils, spark plug caps clutch lever, brake lever and Ignitor :lol
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to the OP: just fixed my mates Fizzy which had the same prob. a new TPS sorted it. where are you upto with this?
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to the OP: just fixed my mates Fizzy which had the same prob. a new TPS sorted it. where are you upto with this?
Sorry for the late response.
This is very interesting! Did he have the 5K-0 problem exactly like I did? :eek
What happened since my last post:
I went to a Yamaha shop and they brought another fazer, took his ICU and connected it to my fazer. Nothing changed! They had no idea what is it but they insisted that it has nothing to do with the TPS and they showed me what happens when they disconnected the TPS from the other guy's fazer (not the same problem like I have).
I'm still stuck with the bad tacho and i'm still searching for one, having a bit tight budget at the moment i'll get back to it later.
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Sorry for the delay
My pals tach was all over the place. Can't remember the exact patterns of reading but 5k and 3k came into it and his TPS was way out of spec. As the TPS works by varying VOLTAGE to the ICU then the tacho can do strange things with a TPS that is offering up increased resistance and thus varying volts
Looks like you have been advised several times above to replace the TPS , I'm surprised you haven't done this and still wondering what the problem is. If it is the clocks then you won't know until you have fitted a new TPS as if TPS doesnt work (unlikely but theoretically possible as per unfazed comment) then the clocks are far more expensive and you could easily sell on a new unused TPS
Get on with it mate !
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I wanted to do it but there's one thing that's holding me back - how am I going to tune the TPS correctly if my tacho is (indeed) messed up?
Then i'll be stuck with two problems :wall
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I wanted to do it but there's one thing that's holding me back - how am I going to tune the TPS correctly if my tacho is (indeed) messed up?
Then i'll be stuck with two problems :wall
Can't you mark the exact position of the old TPS before removing it, then if it still happens with the new one then at least you have something to fall back on.
You say it goes to 5Krpm when unplugged, that isn't normal, it should go to 3Krpm, so that would point to the problem being elsewhere?
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REPLACE THE TPS.
:groan
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REPLACE THE TPS.
:groan
Explain why with NO TPS, it shows 5K rpm?
I'm normally the first to say they can play up or break down, because i've had to change 2 on my bike, but the reading he's getting unplugged is simply incorrect, hinting at another issue elsewhere!
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I have done
:wall I give up and tired of this so good luck arieljt , I'm outta here
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I have done
:wall I give up and tired of this so good luck arieljt , I'm outta here
Actually all you've done is explain symptoms of a faulty TPS!
Doesn't matter, 'cos you won't be reading this anyway. :b
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nope, soz, still here mate. if I get that pissed off I normally sign off with "un-notified, good luck!"
in this case it is simply too amusing too let go. I mean the guys has been advised / told several times. he wants the help but isnt acting on it. there can only be surely 4 root cause failure modes here, in order of my evaluation (based on likelyhood, cost and complexity to diagnose...)
1. TPS
2. ICU
3. Clocks
4. wiring
1. TPS adjusts voltage fed to the ICU so the return volts to the clocks can and will vary if there is a problem; without knowing every single failure mode of a TPS/ICU combination and the corresponding voltage routed to the clocks, one cannot assert with confidence that the 5K problem is not the TPS, even if it is disconnected and the clock still reads 5K, you dont know what the TPS/ICU has caused, that in turn has led to the anomalous error if indeed the error is anomalous? I suspect however that the ICU is a simple CDI unit ?? but have not seen a diagram of the fazer 600 ICU internals
So all can be done simply and relatively cheaply using a breaker part or something , is to replace the TPS and reset the system. This is the easiest and quickest fix, and has worked before on a 5K error I was working on.
2. If the TPS fix doesnt work then a simple swap out of the ICU is called for; you can pick one up off fleabay cheap as chips:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=yamaha+fazer+600+ignition+unit (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=yamaha+fazer+600+ignition+unit)
The OP may wish to try this first (than the TPS) but I've never heard of an ICU fail - for sure they do - I just never heard of one since 1989 hence the TPS suggestion from me. So then the OP has to sell the ICU and I dont hear much call for ICUs but plenty of demand for TPSs !!
3. If the TPS nor ICU fix solve the problem, then we're looking at the clocks or wiring; clocks may be providing erroneous values. The clocks can be tested on a bench with a power supply with a selectable voltage output; the tacho works on volts and this can easily be driven; however, the OP would need to remove the tacho, get a selectable power supply, and do some bench testing. Even then, if the clocks are in error, then he'd still have to buy a replacement. Hence the TPS and ICU fixes came first above; cheaper and easier to diagnose.
3. If the TPS, ICU and clocks hasnt fixed the issue, then its down to wiring. To strip the bike and trace the wiring through all the looms and check all wires. Good luck!
so there you are, an explanation as requested.
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Thank you, and you made it sound so interesting too. :lol
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Strange, cos I fell asleep when compiling that crap :lol
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nope, soz, still here mate. if I get that pissed off I normally sign off with "un-notified, good luck!"
in this case it is simply too amusing too let go. I mean the guys has been advised / told several times. he wants the help but isnt acting on it. there can only be surely 4 root cause failure modes here, in order of my evaluation (based on likelyhood, cost and complexity to diagnose...)
1. TPS
2. ICU
3. Clocks
4. wiring
1. TPS adjusts voltage fed to the ICU so the return volts to the clocks can and will vary if there is a problem; without knowing every single failure mode of a TPS/ICU combination and the corresponding voltage routed to the clocks, one cannot assert with confidence that the 5K problem is not the TPS, even if it is disconnected and the clock still reads 5K, you dont know what the TPS/ICU has caused, that in turn has led to the anomalous error if indeed the error is anomalous? I suspect however that the ICU is a simple CDI unit ?? but have not seen a diagram of the fazer 600 ICU internals
So all can be done simply and relatively cheaply using a breaker part or something , is to replace the TPS and reset the system. This is the easiest and quickest fix, and has worked before on a 5K error I was working on.
2. If the TPS fix doesnt work then a simple swap out of the ICU is called for; you can pick one up off fleabay cheap as chips:
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=yamaha+fazer+600+ignition+unit[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=yamaha+fazer+600+ignition+unit[/url])
The OP may wish to try this first (than the TPS) but I've never heard of an ICU fail - for sure they do - I just never heard of one since 1989 hence the TPS suggestion from me. So then the OP has to sell the ICU and I dont hear much call for ICUs but plenty of demand for TPSs !!
3. If the TPS nor ICU fix solve the problem, then we're looking at the clocks or wiring; clocks may be providing erroneous values. The clocks can be tested on a bench with a power supply with a selectable voltage output; the tacho works on volts and this can easily be driven; however, the OP would need to remove the tacho, get a selectable power supply, and do some bench testing. Even then, if the clocks are in error, then he'd still have to buy a replacement. Hence the TPS and ICU fixes came first above; cheaper and easier to diagnose.
3. If the TPS, ICU and clocks hasnt fixed the issue, then its down to wiring. To strip the bike and trace the wiring through all the looms and check all wires. Good luck!
so there you are, an explanation as requested.
I do listen and do act according to your advice and I do value it greatly, I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise ;)
I'll answer each diasgnosis:
1 - TPS - The TPS was disconnected and the battery of the bike was removed and replaced. The bike was fired up and the tacho still shows 5K regardless of TPS connected/disconnected.
2 - ICU(/+TPS) - The ICU unit of the bike was replaced with a working ICU from another costumer's fazer of the same model and year, the tacho still showed 5K (also regardless of disconnecting - connecting the TPS).
3 - Clocks - The clocks was blamed to be faulty by the Yamaha garage, they said that it's likely that the previous owner connected a car to jumpstart the motorcycle which fried the clocks. I didn't replaced them as it was way too expensive for me at the moment.
4 - Wiring - I mentioned before that I checked the wiring between the ICU and the TPS and they were good. I didn't check the wiring between the ICU and the clocks though, but i believe that they are good since they rest of the clock's light functions correctly.
I would like to thank you all for helping a new fazer owner with his troubles! it's not for granted to have such a great community supporting :thumbup
I think the next time I update this thread will be when I get my hands on a new set of clocks or when I found out the problem ultimately (A-men).
for now, I have problems with the carbs flooding and i'm on a new adventure with it, and i'll open another thread when I gather my thoughts.
Once again, Cheers mates!
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d)
:)
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[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5[/url])
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d[/url])
:)
He doesn't need the TPS :b (didnt know the SV fits, I knew the TPS off the early TDM works too) but he has already decided its a clocks problem so great link although that yellow dial would have to go but hey, beggers/choosers.
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[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5[/url])
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d[/url])
:)
That's pretty cheap, sucks it's 55K when I have only 21K, I might order an old clock set and just replace the tacho in mine :D
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[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5[/url])
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d[/url])
:)
He doesn't need the TPS :b (didnt know the SV fits, I knew the TPS off the early TDM works too) but he has already decided its a clocks problem so great link although that yellow dial would have to go but hey, beggers/choosers.
What was that???
Did i hear you say he DOESN'T need a TPS??? :pokefun
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He has decided he doesn't need a TPS , he made that clear above. I was merely paraphrasing his diagnosis, not mine
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He has decided he doesn't need a TPS , he made that clear above. I was merely paraphrasing his diagnosis, not mine
Oh, i see...... :lol
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Nice try tho mate :D
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Nice try tho mate :D
You are joking, obviously? :look
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I couldn't give a shit TBH ... Like most people here, I help out, I receive as well. Nobody is forced to listen to me and visa-ve . upto him
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Your teasing him aren't you Darrsi :rollin
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And there was me thinking I was doing the teasing ... Too predictable
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And there was me thinking I was doing the teasing ... Too predictable
Therein lies your problem THINKING :D
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And there was me thinking I was doing the teasing ... Too predictable
Therein lies your problem THINKING :D
ah shit, of course