old - Fazer Owners Club - old

Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: h7thl on 09 July 2014, 06:36:25 pm

Title: broken exhaust studs
Post by: h7thl on 09 July 2014, 06:36:25 pm
hi all as per title i have 2 broken exhaust studs what is the best way to get them out as the engine is still in the bike and i dont fancy trying to take the engine out any help would be great  :( :( :(
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Deefer666 on 09 July 2014, 09:26:19 pm
If they are on the middle ports, chances are that you have to take the lump out
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Candyman on 10 July 2014, 02:26:04 pm
OK don't do this  :rolleyes


I had two middle studs snap on me.  I laid the bike down on a mattress to get easy access, tied the wheel up and very very slowly drilled the studs out starting with a very small high quality metal drill bit, increasing the size of the drill bit as I made progress.   Did take a week of careful drilling and lots of cups of tea and nerves.  Had to make sure I was drilling straight  Replaced with new studs ordered from AJSutton.  As I say don't do it.....unless you you have lots of tea!



Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Jules-C on 10 July 2014, 02:34:25 pm
Where are they broken, flush with the cylinder head? In which case engine out. If they sticking out from cylinder head and have some thread but not quite long enough to get through the exhaust clamp a temporary fix might be possible with furniture connector nuts like eBay item 281189197636
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Buzz on 10 July 2014, 06:41:34 pm
Where are they broken, flush with the cylinder head? In which case engine out. If they sticking out from cylinder head and have some thread but not quite long enough to get through the exhaust clamp a temporary fix might be possible with furniture connector nuts like eBay item 281189197636


Or rivet nuts
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: HarryHornby on 11 July 2014, 07:25:40 am
take it to a local garage........... I did, after focing my attempt up!  But then I'm a very basic mechanic.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: hightower on 12 July 2014, 08:50:29 pm
I know engine out sounds daunting, but I did it myself and I class myself as basic when it comes to these things. I used the opportunity to give my head and block a much needed paint, as well as lapping the valves and changing those stem seals. That's a job I class as never needing to do again now, so all good.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: scottishbybirth on 24 November 2014, 08:27:43 pm
I snapped three bolts at the block this year. My solution was to use the spare lugs either side of the original lugs drilled and tapped fresh holes to take new studs. I ground the old studs flush. Admittedly the exhaust manifolds now look odd being 90degrees out of since to the outsides but a quick and easy fix. I count myself very lucky to have not caught any internal oil/water feed pipes but 3000 miles later with no loss of oil or water I must have been very lucky. And no I don't know the lottery numbers for next week he he.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Kentish on 24 November 2014, 10:14:24 pm
Engine out is the only way.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Paulfzs on 24 November 2014, 10:33:16 pm
engine out?


i did mine with the engine in...

this one is the middle one on the right hand side looking at the bike.. bit tight but still pretty easy..
start with a 2mm drill bit work up by .5.. took me about hour and half - 2 hours


(http://i.imgur.com/vNJhJrd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MkQgl1d.jpg)
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Kentish on 24 November 2014, 10:36:30 pm
to do a proper job the engine has to come out. its easy taking the lump out
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Paulfzs on 24 November 2014, 10:49:29 pm
to do a proper job the engine has to come out. its easy taking the lump out


i did a propper job with the engine in :S


am i missing something lol
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: unfazed on 24 November 2014, 11:43:10 pm
engine out?


i did mine with the engine in...

this one is the middle one on the right hand side looking at the bike.. bit tight but still pretty easy..
start with a 2mm drill bit work up by .5.. took me about hour and half - 2 hours


Paul

It that a GS1000S or GS1000 with S panels on the left in the picture? :)
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Paulfzs on 24 November 2014, 11:57:26 pm
engine out?


i did mine with the engine in...

this one is the middle one on the right hand side looking at the bike.. bit tight but still pretty easy..
start with a 2mm drill bit work up by .5.. took me about hour and half - 2 hours


Paul

It that a GS1000S or GS1000 with S panels on the left in the picture? :)


GS1000 :)
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Kentish on 25 November 2014, 05:37:29 pm
are the Boxeye and foxeye the same frame? Its impossible to get flush on the middle studs on a foxeye . The frame is in the way
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: unfazed on 25 November 2014, 06:15:45 pm
Use left hand drill bits,

Frame down tubes and cross bars in the that section are the same.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Paulfzs on 25 November 2014, 06:19:10 pm
he has the boxeye and the frame bar that goes across is in the way a little bit but if you have a slim drill itll fit in with plenty of room
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Gingernutz on 28 November 2014, 10:48:18 pm
When mine broke the dealer called in an engineer who drilled them in place  - he spends half his life patiently drilling these out
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Dave48 on 29 November 2014, 08:28:19 am
Easier to remove rad & hoses for access to broken studs than to remove entire engine. It is possible with care & patience to drill these out in situ-you need,as said, a fairly narrow drill & long drill bits to bypass frame brace. Get comfortable before starting to drill & get plenty of light on the area.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: tweetytek on 29 November 2014, 11:14:03 am
how do these things break anyway; I've never had studs break on any bikes I've owned. Is this a fizzy only issue ???  does spraying the header nuts for a week - before attempting removal - with WD not help?
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Dave48 on 29 November 2014, 12:53:11 pm
how do these things break anyway; I've never had studs break on any bikes I've owned. Is this a fizzy only issue ???  does spraying the header nuts for a week - before attempting removal - with WD not help?
Yes this does help but the general issue seems to be that part of the stud is open to the effects of corrosion and the standard nuts dont help. better to replace these with dome headed stainless steel ones and apply a smidgeon of copper grease to the threads. Dont overtighten-they are-from memory-only 8Nm and it is very easy to overdo things with resultant pain & frustration!
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: tweetytek on 29 November 2014, 01:04:38 pm
I don't think I will be doing this myself - I have read many posts on this forum relating to this issue. Seems a weak area. I'll just take it to my mechanic when the pipes rot - he can source some from M&P and fit them for £200 ! not worth the agro attempting myself.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: fazersharp on 29 November 2014, 01:19:10 pm
I don't think I will be doing this myself - I have read many posts on this forum relating to this issue. Seems a weak area. I'll just take it to my mechanic when the pipes rot - he can source some from M&P and fit them for £200 ! not worth the agro attempting myself.
Yes but once they snap he wont still be charging you the £200 as there will be an extra 4 hours drilling.
I don't think wd40 for a week is going to be much use, I am going to get some plus gas or I have done a bit of research and found something called Kroil Penetrating Oil and I plan to use this for months.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: tweetytek on 29 November 2014, 01:22:37 pm
No. If he snaps them that's his problematic conundrum.  ha..I was sure to check that with him. "don't worry "he said.  So I'm waiting till they need doing.  I guess it comes down to how good your mechanic is.  But I don't pay for poor application... These guys (good ones at least) know what they are doing and have the correct tips tools and techniques. Change your mechanic mate!!
Ta-da!
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: fazersharp on 29 November 2014, 01:39:01 pm
Quote
Change your mechanic mate!!
Er--- that would be me then!

From the sound of it your mechanic has never had to deal with snapped studs and when yours snap he will have to suck it up and stand the cost himself but the next time someone wants a new down pipes fitting im sure he will be adding a caveat to cover himself for the extra work.
 
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: tweetytek on 29 November 2014, 01:40:06 pm
Lol.whatever.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: andybesy on 29 November 2014, 05:15:10 pm
When I got mine done I discussed risk of them snapping with the mechanics I asked to quote.

First (the people I bought the bike from) simply said didn't want the job "we only want easy service jobs" but would take it on basis of quote of up to 8 hours labour, £576 plus parts.

The other acknowledged the risk and quoted a price range, low to high depending if they snapped and how many.

I asked if he would agree to do the job on a fixed price basis using the mid-point price, I thought that was fair and so did he, can't expect anyone to work for free but equally cant sign a blank check.

In the end all went fine, no snapped studs and came back with copper grease on. I still put gt85 in them every week or so to this day just became a habbit : )
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Deefer666 on 01 December 2014, 04:20:23 am
 £576??????? FFS perhaps its time to up my hourly rate....and 8 hours??? I can change a engine & have the bike out of the door in 4!
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Buzz on 02 December 2014, 02:43:25 pm
I removed the rad and dremelled the rusted nuts off (2 cuts on each in a wedge shape then a cold chisel to tap and turn).  Didn't even try soaking or turning them as the middle 4 were rusted solid.  Replaced with brass domed nuts with some copper slip, ready for when I could get some Motads. 

Fitted the new pipes on Sunday and they sound and look frickin' amazing!
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: fazersharp on 03 December 2014, 10:39:34 am
Quote
I removed the rad and dremelled the rusted nuts off (2 cuts on each in a wedge shape then a cold chisel to tap and turn).  Didn't even try soaking or turning them as the middle 4 were rusted solid.  Replaced with brass domed nuts with some copper slip, ready for when I could get some Motads. 

I think that is the way to go after all we are not going to re use the old nuts are we.
I have ordered a tin of kroil have a google about it as it seems the best stuff but not readily available in this country and what I have brought will last me forever. My plan was although my pipes are good for now by the time i come to remove them I will have had months of applying a penetrating oil, my bike is 16 years old and has the OEM pipes although apart from its first 2 years of life has never been ridden in the wet.

If I was to use a dremel what fitting would i need and is there different types of dremel. I may just buy one on ebay for the job and sell it straight on
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Ebme Geek on 03 December 2014, 12:27:32 pm
I did mine some time ago, used dremel 'cut off wheels'
I got a draper kit with a flexi drive that helped get to the more awkward ones
 
some pics here posts 11 & 13
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,6858.msg67155.html#msg67155 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,6858.msg67155.html#msg67155)
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: fazersharp on 03 December 2014, 06:25:39 pm
That is perfect thanks for the link and the original post, I think I would rather spend £50 on all the dremel stuff needed than have to deal with snapped studs
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Jules-C on 04 December 2014, 12:24:30 am
I Dremelled 3 of my exhaust nuts of a couple of years ago. The ones that wouldn't respond to repeated plusgas treatments. Off course they were the hardest to get to ones on the centre two clamps. Did it without taking radiator off but ended up cutting through the last downpipe close to clamp to get access to the nut.  It's surprising how big a chunk you can slice off the side of the stud and the stainless dome nut still goes on and holds tight!

Use the cutting disks with fibre reinforcement in them, the ones without are about as strong as Pringles and shatter easily
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Wookee on 05 December 2014, 07:55:50 am
I did mine yesterday 42k's worth of seized nuts came off reasonably easily with heat and very gentle persuasion. I had put penetrating fluid on the previous day just to get something on them, I can't quite see the point of doing it for days as it either goes in or it doesn't. When I was heating the centre ones I did spray them again after the first couple of minutes of heat before re-applying. Once I got the first bit of 'give' in the nut I rocked it back and forth a few times before applying more pressure to undo it.


For the time being I've had to put the old nuts back on as the new ones I ordered aren't domed. Can anyone give me a link to the domed ones please?
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Jules-C on 05 December 2014, 09:44:32 am
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=130070198454&alt=web (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=130070198454&alt=web)

Hope the link works or just do a search for m6 stainless dome nut in fleabay
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Wookee on 05 December 2014, 10:29:57 am
Cheers mate...ordered. :thumbup  I take it they're deep enough to be tightened to the right torque?
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: fazersharp on 05 December 2014, 11:52:24 am
  :guitar With what did you heat them - dear Wookee dear Wookee - with what did you heat them- dear Wookee with what  :guitar
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Jules-C on 05 December 2014, 04:46:06 pm
Cheers mate...ordered. :thumbup  I take it they're deep enough to be tightened to the right torque?

They should be I haven't heard of anyone that's had a problem using dome nuts.

They should make stainless studs and nuts standard on all bikes, probably add about £1.50 to the cost of manufacture
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: limax2 on 05 December 2014, 09:37:55 pm
Cheers mate...ordered. :thumbup  I take it they're deep enough to be tightened to the right torque?
 
As said they should be, but if you want to be sure you could screw one on a bolt thread and see how many turns to bottom out. Then as long as it takes less turns when fitting the exhaust all will be fine  :) .
P.S. Mine were fine.
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Wookee on 06 December 2014, 10:44:45 am
  :guitar With what did you heat them - dear Wookee dear Wookee - with what did you heat them- dear Wookee with what  :guitar


A camping gaz butane torch....more commonly known as a plumbers torch. They cost a few quid from any plumbers place and you only need a little can of gas. Listen to the radio when you do it and you heat it up for about one record length then spray some penetrating fluid on it and let it soak in while the DJ chats, then heat for another record length. It will be glowing by then and should come off with a bit of rocking back and forth. I used very little pressure.


You have to be a bit careful after spraying the fluid as it is flammable and will flare up. The other thing I used was three different spanners/sockets as I couldn't get a socket on all of the nuts. Check what spanner/socket fits BEFORE you heat each nut up. Otherwise you end up fiddling around with a red hot nut and that stings a bit :'(
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: savvy on 06 December 2014, 03:12:00 pm
I don't know when they were fitted but my headers are fastened on with hex skt screws into the cyl head. No nuts at all and only need an allen key in the socket to undo them. They are h/tensile so should be ok and I remove every winter and copperslip them.
 Works for me so far. :lol
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2014, 06:17:25 pm
Quote
A camping gaz butane torch....more commonly known as a plumbers torch.
yep ive got one of those but heat until glowing  :eek thats a bit much isnt it
Title: Re: broken exhaust studs
Post by: Wookee on 07 December 2014, 11:55:26 am
Quote
A camping gaz butane torch....more commonly known as a plumbers torch.
yep ive got one of those but heat until glowing  :eek thats a bit much isnt it


No idea if it was a bit much....it worked for me and no studs were broken. Maybe less would have worked and maybe not....