old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Freza on 30 June 2014, 09:28:58 pm
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Do you do it and does it do any harm to the gearbox ?
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Yes, and no, provided it's done properly!
Only time I really use the clutch going up is from 1-2 on my ninja as that's basically pulling off, rest of the time i tend to just clutchless upshift
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I might have a go at this --- is it the same as useing the clutch as in off revs change, and is it a matter of feeling for the right revs and why would I want to do it (not being funny)
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Yes I have too with my gutless underpowered shed, only way to get it to buck up :lol
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I never tried it (should I feel ashamed?), but I'll definitely give it a go.
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I might have a go at this --- is it the same as useing the clutch as in off revs change, and is it a matter of feeling for the right revs and why would I want to do it (not being funny)
yes, but you only have to twitch the revs down a bit, put a teeny bit of pressure on the lever and if you get it right it'll snick in lovely and smoothly. Basically means you can full throttle accelerate continuously through the gears without wasting time changing gears!
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Thinking about it I dont think I pull the clutch in fully anyway when getting a move on------------- perhaps I half shift
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This video helped me a lot:
Smoother gear Changing, gear shifting on your motorcycle. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIhycth8msU#ws)
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I always use the clutch between 1 and 2 and use the clutch between 2 and 3 in town as the revs are generally lower and therefore is very sensitive so if you get it wrong it can give a bit of a clunk. The rest of the time I shift up without clutch. Slight pressure under gear lever with foot then back of throttle for a split second, the gear snicks up and then you're back on the power. Takes a bit of practice to get it smooth but it feels sooo good when you get it.
Chris
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I always use the clutch between 1 and 2 and use the clutch between 2 and 3 in town as the revs are generally lower and therefore is very sensitive so if you get it wrong it can give a bit of a clunk. The rest of the time I shift up without clutch. Slight pressure under gear lever with foot then back of throttle for a split second, the gear snicks up and then you're back on the power. Takes a bit of practice to get it smooth but it feels sooo good when you get it.
Chris
Totally agree with Chris - well described fella. In town clutch 2nd to 3rd, out of town clutch only 1st to 2nd. Slight pressure under the gear lever is the key. Makes a smoother ride I find especially with a pillion.
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I always use the clutch between 1 and 2 and use the clutch between 2 and 3 in town as the revs are generally lower and therefore is very sensitive so if you get it wrong it can give a bit of a clunk. The rest of the time I shift up without clutch. Slight pressure under gear lever with foot then back of throttle for a split second, the gear snicks up and then you're back on the power. Takes a bit of practice to get it smooth but it feels sooo good when you get it.
Chris
Totally agree with Chris - well described fella. In town clutch 2nd to 3rd, out of town clutch only 1st to 2nd. Slight pressure under the gear lever is the key. Makes a smoother ride I find especially with a pillion.
Works really well when your hammering it through the gears and sounds great too
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Just tried it, works perfectly smooth.
Kind of a "DIY" quickshifter :b
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This video helped me a lot:
If he would just shut up for a second I might be able to hear the engine
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it's the blipping on the downshifts that I still haven't mastered properly yet, sometimes get it spot on and other times it's a complete mess. All about practice though and everything that helps you stay smoother and not unsettle the balance of the bike is a good thing.
Chris
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Just tried it, works perfectly smooth.
Kind of a "DIY" quickshifter :b
Lesson number 1 is now complete. Lesson number 2 involves the same principle but with the bike off the centre stand :D
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Just tried it, works perfectly smooth.
Kind of a "DIY" quickshifter :b
Lesson number 1 is now complete. Lesson number 2 involves the same principle but with the bike off the centre stand :D
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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it's the blipping on the downshifts that I still haven't mastered properly yet, sometimes get it spot on and other times it's a complete mess. All about practice though and everything that helps you stay smoother and not unsettle the balance of the bike is a good thing.
Chris
There's a definite knack to it, and I've not mastered it yet. :rolleyes
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If you push with your thumb and pull with your middle fingers its easier to blip the throttle for me
though one has a slipper clutch and does not need to blip now :rollin
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Like most others, I only use the clutch for 1st to 2nd gear changes (and 2nd to 1st) - otherwise IRS clutch less all the way.
I've done this on all my bikes over the last 37 years and whilst every one has been a joy on up shifts, a couple have been pigs to master on downshifts (older Honda SOHC fours were the worst).
Downshift wise, my RSV is the easiest for a beautifully smooth shift and I reckon the Fazer 600 is the easiest (non 2 stroke) for smooth up shifts.
It's all about matching revs and throttle, together with a quick "snick" of the pedal.
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I have had ago today (upshift) and some times it just wont move at all - other times its a "jolt" and then when I think about how I change gear ( when getting a move on) I do exactly the same -- its a flick of the throttle and the clutch is hardly in so I am sort of half clutchles changing, I got it right once and was smooth but ther rest of the time there was a jolt but i dont think I am going to be any quicker clutchless than the way I already ride.
Down shifting with a blip though I do without thinking and somtimes with two fingers on the front brake too
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I have tried this before and found it jerky (maybe I was chopping the throttle off too much?) but I tried again on the way home last night and most of the upshifts felt good. I found the smoothest RPM to do this was around 5-6k I think but it was difficult to tell as I was watching the road, etc.
Anyone have any suggestions for ideal revs to upshift at?
What about this? Seems like kind of a compromise: MXTV Rider Tip - Race changes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0aI9yaoZVA#ws)
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when I did get it right I found that I had to be getting a move on and the revs were mor like 6-7 k as anything under the shift just wouldnt move
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when I did get it right I found that I had to be getting a move on and the revs were mor like 6-7 k as anything under the shift just wouldnt move
Think you could probably do with a bit more pressure on the gear lever - I'm used to short shifting round London at about 3k Rpm. Give it a go fella.
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when I did get it right I found that I had to be getting a move on and the revs were mor like 6-7 k as anything under the shift just wouldnt move
Think you could probably do with a bit more pressure on the gear lever - I'm used to short shifting round London at about 3k Rpm. Give it a go fella.
3k ?? is that on fzs 600 I wonder if it has anything to do with mine being a "98" as they are a bit unique in other areas too.
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maybe just need to back off more so the engine speed can match up then it'll change. I find the lower down the revs the harder it is to get it smooth.
Chris
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when I did get it right I found that I had to be getting a move on and the revs were mor like 6-7 k as anything under the shift just wouldnt move
Think you could probably do with a bit more pressure on the gear lever - I'm used to short shifting round London at about 3k Rpm. Give it a go fella.
3k ?? is that on fzs 600 I wonder if it has anything to do with mine being a "98" as they are a bit unique in other areas too.
Yup on the Fazer....even lower on the Tiger. It's all down to the gear lever pressure and increasing the lever pressure at the same time as you start to roll off a nats. Practice makes everything easier.
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The principle involved here is that the gear lever won't want to move whilst the gearbox is under load - ie acceleration of deceleration.
The way to rake the load off the gearbox on up shifts is to roll the throttle off a touch quickly and then lift the gear lever - just as you would roll off with a clutched changed (the clutch is just a mechanism to disconnect the gearbox from the crankshaft driving force anyway and take the load off).
On downshifts, "blipping" the throttle also reduces the load through the gearbox and makes clutch less shifts easier and smoother.
In the late '80's I had a Ford Fiesta which had a plastic toothed ratchet on the top of the clutch pedal which pulled the clutch cable - and it wore out regularly, leaving me with no clutch. As a result I made half a dozen trips from Liverpool to Newcastle (or back), without a clutch - and once I'd mastered clutch less changes, out of necessity (matching RPM's to speeds in gears), I could change as smoothly without a clutch as with one.
Moving off from a standstill was trickier - into neutral, stop, engine off, into 1st (or 2nd), turn the key in the ignition to engage the starter and as the car jumps forward, hit the gas and let go of the key - then into 2nd ASAP and proceed through the gears. It also made reading the road and reading traffic a real skill, so you try to always keep rolling and avoid harsh acceleration or deceleration.
Great fun - and a surprisingly effective way to drive economically.
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Have you seen little mis sunshine (film)
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Have you seen little mis sunshine (film)
lol
Excellent film! I know the bit you mean!
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I've always quick shifted since buying my fazer. Got told about it, trued it, loved it. Its so easy to match the revs especially with the gear ratio being very close on a fazer. Keep at it. I always use the clutch for downshifting though. And in town 1-3 is all clutchwork.
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Might try this for up shifting myself then. Not too sure on down, I don't think I've actually mastered shifting down properly at all... Anyone got an idiots guide so I can compare? As silly as that sounds LOL (I'm not totally useless and can ride fine, just if my life can be easier or smoother I'd prefer it)
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Tried this yesterday. Just as easy downshifting as it is up!
My question... Will this cause any damage or premature wear?
It's smooth and I like it but won't do it if its going to cause unnecessary wear
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Might try this for up shifting myself then. Not too sure on down, I don't think I've actually mastered shifting down properly at all... Anyone got an idiots guide so I can compare? As silly as that sounds LOL (I'm not totally useless and can ride fine, just if my life can be easier or smoother I'd prefer it)
Main thing to get the hang of with downshifting is blipping the throttle before you close it, it picks the revs up so that when you change down the gears the bike is a hell of a lot smoother!
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Yeah I noticed that, if I'm not actually on the throttle and just coasting it won't go down easily, if im throttling and then lift off and shift down its a total dream... Picked up on this pretty quickly, if I'm slowing quickly and not throttling i just clutch it... So much smoother all round though, I'm sure the mrs will be happy about that lol
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I think that we maybe taliking about two different things here perhaps, clutchless up shifting and normal down shifting with clutch but "blipping" the throttle just befor pulling clutch in and removing most of the engine braking leading to smoother down shifting (and sounds good ), I do this without thinking whilst at the same time 1 or 2 fingers on the front brake (and a bit on the back of course)
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I mean no touchy clutchy if you're referring to me.... No point using it, it's more work than anything else haha. Pulling away and low rev changes are all ill use the clutch for now.. Unless it causes unnecessary wear or damage of course...
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Had a go of the up shifting opn the way to work, works perfect easy stuff. Downshift I use clutch but blip throttle to match revs of the new gear and to make girls caves quiver 8)
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Just an update for me on this is that I have found out why I was not getting on well and it was because I was not giving enough pre "off throttle" pressure on the gear shift, I found that I had to give quite a lot of pressure first and keep it there and as soon as I off the throttle it slips in to the next gear. Keep having to check the speedo as you don't realise the speed so much, its no faster but the lack of any roll on and off motion kind of makes me loose where I am if that makes sense, I guess that I have been subconsciously counting the gears, any way enjoyed it so much I just kept on going for 125 miles