old - Fazer Owners Club - old

Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: shrekster on 28 June 2014, 09:41:34 pm

Title: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: shrekster on 28 June 2014, 09:41:34 pm
I've finally managed to get my gearbox to work smoothly, I was getting really fed up with the stupidly clunky gear change on my bike so decided to have a look inside the clutch to hopefully find out what the problem was. I'd read about the little core plug on the end of the clutch shaft coming out allowing the oil to bypass the clutch plates, but mine was still in situ so that ruled that out. Next I took the clutch plates off, I noticed there wasn't much oil on them with the inner most plates almost bone dry, so much so, the steel friction plates were slightly blued with heat. As standard they are just not getting enough oil, there are little oil holes in the basket that are supposed to allow oil onto the plates but they are not sufficient.
While the plates were off I left them soaking in oil. To improve the oil supply I drilled some additional 4mm holes around the basket between the teeth near the base to get some oil to the driest plates.
I assembled everything and now if I take the oil filler cap off with the engine running I can see oil being flung off the clutch which I couldn't see before.
I went for a run and the difference is amazing, I'd say its 95% better than before. There's still a bit of a clunk going into first from neutral but it's a huge improvement, changing gear up and down is far smoother and now I can get nice slick shifts.
The picture shows a core plug that has popped out of the shaft, if you look at the clutch you can see the oil holes at about the 4 o'clock position. I drilled the additional holes every second tooth, one near the base and one near the middle.
I've only covered about 600 miles so far but the difference is amazing.

Jim.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: SWIFTY on 28 June 2014, 10:37:35 pm
HI, just go a  my fazer up and running, feels conky 1st 2nd gear change, was that the same for yours or was it all gears, SWIFTY :rolleyes
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: shrekster on 28 June 2014, 11:07:30 pm
Very clunky in all gears but definitely more so on first and second. I would avoid putting the bike into neutral because the clunk was so bad going into first. Now it pops into first with a light clunk, way better than before.
Jim.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: b1k3rdude on 28 June 2014, 11:46:53 pm
Quote from: shrekster on 28 June 2014, 09:41:34 pm
  • I've finally managed to get my gearbox to work smoothly, I was getting really fed up with the stupidly clunky gear change on my bike so decided to have a look inside the clutch to hopefully find out what the problem was.
  • If you look at the clutch you can see the oil holes at about the 4 o'clock position. I drilled the additional holes every second tooth, one near the base and one near the middle.
  • I've only covered about 600 miles so far but the difference is amazing.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: Falcon 269 on 29 June 2014, 05:16:07 am
I'd advise anyone against reducing chain slack to that extent.  The original manual spec was 50 - 55m but Yamaha reduced it to 45mm after a year or two of the Fazer being on sale.  Any tighter than that and you risk causing damage to the gearbox internals, particularly the output shaft bearing.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: Dave48 on 29 June 2014, 05:50:38 am
Quote from: Falcon 269 on 29 June 2014, 05:16:07 am
I'd advise anyone against reducing chain slack to that extent.  The original manual spec was 50 - 55m but Yamaha reduced it to 45mm after a year or two of the Fazer being on sale.  Any tighter than that and you risk causing damage to the gearbox internals, particularly the output shaft bearing.
+1!  This "solution" rears its head regularly on the forum as a possible answer to reducing "clunky" changes. Yamaha,in their wisdom specify this amount of chain slack which is necessary to avoid this damage. It is linked to the length of swingarm & the arc of movement of the rear wheel with the rear suspension. The swingarm length is designed to provide stable handling. There is always going to be a bit of a "clunk" between neutral & 1st & 1st to 2nd.
Running the chain tighter than recommmended will have expensive consequences!
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: woodwizzard on 29 June 2014, 07:41:07 am
I have just slackened my chain off to 45mm and the gear change is now smoother. The worst for me is 4th to 5th to 6th. 1 2 and 3 are ultra smooth and never had a bike that didn't clunk a little from neutral to first.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: shrekster on 29 June 2014, 11:54:05 am
My bike only has 8000 miles on the clock, prior to doing this work I checked everything was in spec and lubed. The chain, gear lever, linkage/joints and clutch cable are all in good condition.

Jim.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: bludclot on 29 June 2014, 01:53:06 pm



mine used to shudder reluctantly into first and was very difficult to put into neutral - fixed by de-burring the basket fingers (the same as b1kerdude) and fitting a new, genuine clutch cable. Gear changes are now silky smooth and have been for the last four thousand miles since completing the work.


i also welded the springs at the back of the basket to the basket - this eliminated clutch rattle! nobody else has done this though, so i suspect that shreksters mod may be similarly ignored. great idea though - good work!
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: Krezi on 29 June 2014, 02:01:26 pm
Mine is clunky from neutral to first and from first to second. Any other changes is smooth. The clunkiness is similar to what I experienced on any other bike regardless of manufacturer. I have yet to find a bike where there is no clunkiness at all from neutral to first but I doubt there is one due to nature of motorbike clutch


It doesn't bother me at all really!


Paul
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: shrekster on 29 June 2014, 03:05:13 pm
This is my third Fazer and this one has the smoothest engine of the three but the worst gear change by far. Now the gearbox is sorted it's the business.
My clutch basket showed almost no wear at all and except for the slight blueing of a couple of the metal plates it's in perfect nick.

Jim.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: b1k3rdude on 29 June 2014, 03:57:32 pm
Quote from: Falcon 269 on 29 June 2014, 05:16:07 am
I'd advise anyone against reducing chain slack to that extent.  The original manual spec was 50 - 55m but Yamaha reduced it to 45mm after a year or two of the Fazer being on sale.
For years I have always run 45-50mm and was aware that this got tight as the rear suspension compressed. The 35-40mm advice came from a yam dealer and as it made the gear change better I didnt have any reason to doubt it. So will test going back to 45mm with the clutch mod.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: shrekster on 29 June 2014, 04:12:15 pm
I think the best way to check the chain is not too tight is to make the adjustment then get a couple of mates to sit on the bike. As the suspension compresses the chain will tighten up, all you have to do is make sure there's no slack and it's not too tight.
Jim.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: b1k3rdude on 29 June 2014, 04:19:20 pm
Quote from: shrekster on 29 June 2014, 04:12:15 pm
I think the best way to check the chain is not too tight is to make the adjustment then get a couple of mates to sit on the bike.
that was the thing, when I did the 35-40mm I sat on the bike while the tightest spot was checked etc. Anyway, gonna keep an eye out for a replacement clutch cover and then do the clutch-hole mod.
Title: Taking a step back...
Post by: b1k3rdude on 01 July 2014, 11:55:51 pm
Quote from: shrekster on 28 June 2014, 09:41:34 pm
I drilled the additional holes every second tooth, one near the base and one near the middle and I've only covered about 600 miles so far but the difference is amazing.

I've been think for a while on this, even mentioned it in passing to the small local bike shop, the two questions that came up were -
I've only noticed the dry plate problem on this bike because of the squealing when slipped under duress, the annoying thing is no other FZS1000 I have had has done the squealing thing. At the time I spoke to Yamaha tech explained I swapped the entire clutch inc. bearings and I still get the noise. I'm leaning towards the dry clutch plates causing the noise etc, but I am now hesitant to drill holes in something as serious and important as the clutch hub. @ the OP -
To falcon and other experienced senior tweakers and felters, what are your thought's on this mod..? Is there any other things we as owners could do to fix the dry clutch plate issue..? how is the oild supposed to get to the plates normally?
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: Falcon 269 on 02 July 2014, 11:36:58 am
I've hesitated to post on this because I'm not sure of the engineering stuff at play here.  I've not encountered any clutch problems with my Fazer or R1s, and the 'dry plate' issue you mention doesn't seem to be a prevalent one.

I'm inclined to think that if there were an advantage to having extra holes in the clutch hub, Yamaha would have put them there already.  Alternatively, if this were considered a good DIY mod, I would have expected it to show up on Fazer and R1 forums long ago.  I've not seen anything on it in 12 years of Fazer ownership.

I doubt whether adding a few holes to the basket will cause it to go out of balance or weaken it significantly but that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.

I do mostly clutchless changes from 2nd gear upwards but when I use the clutch, I find the changes plenty smooth.  Clunking into first from neutral is normal, and is louder when the motor is hot and the oil thinner.

I tend to look to the gearchange linkage and clutch adjustment first if I encounter a notchy gearchange.  That said, Jim reports clear improvement from his mod and who's to say that he hasn't hit on something new and worthwhile? :)

Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: shrekster on 02 July 2014, 10:56:28 pm
First of all I should say I'm not an engineer but I am aware of the risk of drilling any part of the clutch. That said, any blow ups I've heard of have been the clutch basket and not the centre. I'd be very reluctant to touch the outer basket. The centre of the clutch is quite a substantial piece of metal.
 I can understand that drilling lots of holes in one area might cause an imbalance, however, I have drilled the holes in an evenly spaced pattern and I don't notice any vibes whatsoever. This, my third Fazer is the smoothest one I've had and still is following modification.
I can only report a vastly improved gear change following modification, with no issues in 600 miles of use.

Jim.

Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: Captain Haddock on 03 July 2014, 06:48:53 pm
Must admit I'm tempted to try this sometime but then my bike is just a toy and if were to go bang it wouldn't be a major headache for me, just a cost, I walk to work and the Mrs. has a perfectly good car for load shifting.
I could do with as smooth a clutch as possible as I currently have a communication issue with my left hand due to a nerve problem and finding clutch control a bit tricky at the moment.
Would have thought small holes drilled in opposite pairs wouldn't do any harm strength or balance wise.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: jonnyboy on 05 July 2014, 10:49:38 pm
i think you may have a good solution here! i have also been having problems with my clutch, not too bad a problem when the bike is cold but when hot the clutch drags and makes it dificult to get into neutral. have checked cable, adjustment etc, oil is correct grade. took the clutch out hoping i might find the plug had come out, but that was in position, plates looked fine and like yours the inner plates seemed drier than expected. no visable signs of wear to any of the basket, the bike has covered about 17000 m's.
going to give this mod a try as i also cannot see that it will have a significant effect on the structural integrity of the clutch or that it will adversly effect balance! will post back as and when its done with results!
 
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: shrekster on 10 July 2014, 10:13:21 pm
Was just browsing looking at stuff on EBay and found a Sigma clutch for an R1, notice the number of oil holes in the clutch centre. The Yamaha one has far less, the picture is from the Sigma website.
Jim.
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: kilofazer on 16 June 2017, 10:25:52 pm
I have similar problems like @shrekster since I've bought my fazer few years ago. I've heard about those popping out core plug, but mine is in place. I have also almost dry friction plates, so I'm thinking about drilling additional holes in inner part of basket. I'm also thinking about improving oil supplay to the center of inner basket, but I'm not sure how oil gets there. Are those marked holes in below photo responsible for oil supply?
(http://foc-u.co.uk/MGalleryItem.php?id=3008)
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: ProdigalSon on 10 July 2017, 12:53:45 pm
Sorry to show my ignorance but is this something that can be done in situ or does the whole clutch assembly need to be removed from the bike?
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: Dustydes on 10 July 2017, 04:21:47 pm

They used to do that on the fzr1000 with grooves as well for oil flow.


http://www.factorypro.com/tech/clutch_y.html (http://www.factorypro.com/tech/clutch_y.html)
Title: Re: Smooth gear change at last!
Post by: b1k3rdude on 10 July 2017, 05:48:42 pm
I wonder if there is a 'howto' guide on this somewhere, as I have killed a set of plates in the past due ti the poor oil feed to the Plates.

So started a quick google search -