old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: b1k3rdude on 13 June 2014, 12:11:23 pm
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I'm finally fed up of the rear locking under braking, because my Bandit1200 dosen't do it nearly as much. Now that is probably partly to do with B12 being heavier, but also it has a lower spec rear caliper and is running an original hose on the back compared to the FZS which came with braided when I bought it.
Could I just put a high mileage stock hose on the back to soften the braking action..? along with the worst pads I can find..? What pads do people recommend?
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I fitted goodridge hoses to the rear brake on my gen 1 and my back brake kept locking up, so i removed it and put the original hose back on. The back brake works perfectly with the standard hose
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some will say "get off that fekkin rear brake" use the front more,more,more
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some will say "get off that fekkin rear brake" use the front more,more,more
:lol
This kind of ties in with my point regards the 600 and thou caliper...interesting how the hoses can change the performance.
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I have a set of original hoses, you can have the rear for £10 including postage
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1) Leave the clutch alone. Many people have a bad habit of pulling the clutch when they hit the brakes. This unloads the back wheel making it more likely to lock, prevents engine braking from having any effect, and prevents the engine from turning the back wheel preventing it from locking. If you do this, then stop doing it.
2) If your bandit has the mushy rear brakes I remember, then you are probably stomping on the pedal. Try and imagine your favourite testical is between your foot and the brake pedal and you wont have any more problems locking the rear.
3) It is possible your rear disc is out of true and 'catches'. With the bike on the center stand, spin the back wheel by hand and gently apply the rear brake by hand. If it always stops in the same place, you know where to look.
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Just a thought. Is it possibly a situation where the brake pedal is set slightly too high. I have recently bought some new boots and they have changed my foot position slightly to my previous ones. When I first rode my bike in the new boots it felt like I was stamping on the brake so I dropped the pedal down a few millimetres and now it's fine again.
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+1 for adjusting the position of the pedal, my rear brake has always been very harsh. I got used to it but whenever I needed to do an emergency stop I couldn't help locking the rear. Since I've fitted the Gillies rearsets and had a play with the position, it has softened it up nicely. Saying that it could be to do with the rearsets, in which case, disregard the first part of this reply. :lol
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2) Try and imagine your favourite testical is between your foot and the brake pedal
ROFL. Brilliant.
Try riding two up! I'll bet the brake is that powerful because it was expected to cope with pillions.
Oh. Not helping. Ok….
Adjust the pedal position, use standard hoses and adapt. When I swap from my other bike (which has a back brake you have to use a lot of pressure to operate) the Fazer's back brake always catches me out, but half an hour and I've readjusted.
It is f. powerful though. I can see why you're fed up with it.
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It is possible your rear disc is out of true and 'catches'. With the bike on the center stand, spin the back wheel by hand and gently apply the rear brake by hand.
ah yes, it passed an MOT but it can't hurt to check.
Just a thought. Is it possibly a situation where the brake pedal is set slightly too high.
Another excellent suggestion and which I knew about but forgot - will lower the pedel.
It is f. powerful though. I can see why you're fed up with it.
yer, came around a miny-roundabout to find a huge drain cover almost covering the whole lane, I was lent over at the time and didn't want to risk going over it. So I applied the front (and auto applied the rear 'muscle memory') and the problem was the rear broke free and started coming around from my right, which then made me go even wider. So had the rear 'not' locked up I would have been able to maintain my original trajectory and speed.
@Bluebear, how old are your the hoses (as in the more miles the better) as I didn't realise till I checked today that I have the stock hose on the back. The bike has only done 16k so I am guessing the hose I have isn't fucked enough yet.
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Get a set of those Goldfren pads off ebay. You will never have to worry about locking the rear again. Dont put them in the front though you need one brake that works. :lol
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I clean it and check it's working before the MOT every year.
That's the only time it gets used. Oh maybe sitting on a slope checking my map. Down the ramp onto ferries, that sort of thing.
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Get a set of those Goldfren pads off ebay.
Yeah I know about those pads, but ironically they aren't crap enough.
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Get a set of those Goldfren pads off ebay.
Yeah I know about those pads, but ironically they aren't crap enough.
If goldfrens aren't crap enough, you must either be trying to ride in motocross boots, or have absoultely no finesse on the rear!
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If goldfrens aren't crap enough.
There have to be worse organic pad's out there than the GF's. But if nothing else is recommended then the GF's it is.
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It is possible your rear disc is out of true and 'catches'. With the bike on the center stand, spin the back wheel by hand and gently apply the rear brake by hand.
ah yes, it passed an MOT but it can't hurt to check.
Just a thought. Is it possibly a situation where the brake pedal is set slightly too high.
Another excellent suggestion and which I knew about but forgot - will lower the pedel.
It is f. powerful though. I can see why you're fed up with it.
yer, came around a miny-roundabout to find a fucking huge drain cover almost covering the whole, I was lent over at the time and didnt want to risk going over it. So I applied the front (and auto applied the rear 'fucking muscle memory') and the problem was the rear broke free and started coming around from my fight, which then made me go even wider. So had the rear not locked up I would have been able to maintain my original trajectory and speed, instead of looking like a novice for those 1-2 seconds.
@Bluebear, how old are your the hoses (as in the more miles the better) as I didn't realise till I checked today that I have the stock hose on the back. The bike has only done 16k so I am guessing the hose I have isn't fucked enough yet.
They are about 9 year old and done about 26k,
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Maybe take bike on a quiet carpark and learn how to to use the brakes properly...how anyone wants to decrease braking potential is behind me. Learn to use them properly as a pair.....
Braced for replys but I suspect all the experienced riders on the forum will agree?
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✳ behond ✳
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What sirgalahad said. Learn to ride properly, if you're locking the rear, you're stomping too hard, it's that simple. Everything on a bike is about finesse, not fitting shit knackered hoses to cover your inability.
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Learn to ride properly, if you're locking the rear, you're stomping too hard, it's that simple. Everything on a bike is about finesse, not fitting shit knackered hoses to cover your inability.
By that logic the same thing should be happening on the Bandit..? I will going with trpFZS/PaulSmith's suggestions.
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I'm finally fed up of the rear locking under braking,
I don't get this problem with my bike ..... ;) ;) ;)
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Nor me on mine :rollin
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Nor me on mine :rollin
Do either of you have a steel rear brake line though?
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Yes
:wall
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All jokes aside here bikerdude i think you've answered your own question here in the thread....you openly admit that you tend to automatically press the back brake AFTER the front......everything I've learnt so far (which is only a short time) is that if anything the back brake should, if used at speed be applied BEFORE the front......just a dab really...enough to load more weight to the front so that the front can get more stopping power.
Think of your bikes back end suspended in mid air & the back wheel running....how much brake do you reckon it would take to lock that suspended & spinning back wheel......not much......that is in effect what is happening when you use the front brake & then step on the rear....not to mention the lack of coordination due to your body already moving forward after the front brake is applied and decreasing back brake finesse.
No great shakes though is it......ive locked up my front brakes twice so i need more front brake finesse.....none of us are perfect......but you used both on a mini roundabout.....how fast exactly were you going because mini roundabouts should not need banking over or both brakes.....10mph & a small weave maybe but not slamming on brakes.........straight line emergency stops maybe but not mini roundabouts.
But maybe the key perhaps lies in skills improvement...the continous cycle.....& im still trying.......by all means i scare myself sometimes but hey thats life & bikes are more complicated than most folk do them credit......fit some crap pads....but why not just take off the back brake in that case & see how you get on as it defo wont lock up if it isn't there will it mate? :)
Personally i dont really use the back brake unless waiting at junctions & roundabouts & even then I'm learning to prefer front brake only.......enjoy the right peg as a peg & leave the thinking to the left side 8)
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It is not possible to slow a motorcycle from speed quickly and in a stable manner only using the front brake. Why do you think they are fitted.
This is my last post on this but I am shocked at some of the posts. Good luck is all I can say to some of you.
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It is not possible to slow a motorcycle from speed quickly and in a stable manner only using the front brake. Why do you think they are fitted.
This is my last post on this but I am shocked at some of the posts. Good luck is all I can say to some of you.
Oh yes it is :nana :nana :nana
:lol
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Gotta agree with the above.... I hardly use my back brake apart from when its pissin down.... (Edited... Pissed waitin for footie)
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How fast exactly were you going because mini roundabouts should not need banking over or both brakes.....
It was either slowing down enough so I could go around it (it being a 3x4ft wet metal drain cover) or risk going over it while lent over. At least going with the brake it gave me more control than I would have had on the drain cover. Wtf the council have put one that large, in the middle of the road, on a junction, on a bend is beyond me.
To all those that only use their fronts, you have obviously gotten used to doing that. The rest of us mere mortals forget to only apply the front when in a mild or not so mild state of panic, its called being human.
In the mean time, I am going to adjust the brake pedal height, check the rear disk for straightness and change the rear pads.
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It is not possible to slow a motorcycle from speed quickly and in a stable manner only using the front brake. Why do you think they are fitted.
This is my last post on this but I am shocked at some of the posts. Good luck is all I can say to some of you.
I'd have to agree with Noggy on this. Admittedly I'm on a sportsbike, so the geometry is different, but if I'm braking hard then I use little to no rear brake, as the rear wheel is only just in contact with the ground. That said, they are rather handy for slow traffic or U turns, but that's pretty much it. Obviously a different story with someone on the back!
I did use the rear brake a bit more with the Fazers I've had, but not having the same weight distribution as my current bike means I could use the rear more with it actually having some effect!
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I personally use my rear brake more than my front, prevents my front from diving at lights and junctions and the front forks being compressed when hitting a fast bend. It's all about personal preference and how you chose to ride. There is no right and wrong and all your self righteous comments are seriously flawed. :rollin
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I rub my foot on my back tyre, i find this helps :lol
Nah, as said , check operation of rear brake is correct,not sticking at a particular point.Then a good idea was to drop the rear lever a little bit,then trust the front much more,and practice it,try a handful of brake,,wet or dry ,you will learn how affective it is.careful now.
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Times to use the rear brake.
On a steep downhill.
On loose surface.
In wet conditions.
For extra in an emergency situation.
When you've focced everything up going into a corner too late/fast and panic :lol
I try to stay off it for most normal riding, or when riding hard in good conditions, but there are times when a little dab can be useful. Gen 1 rears are very easy to lock!
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mmmmmmmm...well i was`nt going to reply to this thread but :rolleyes .....i am surprised at how many of you dont use your rear brake...... i use mine lots,nick has a good list of when to use it,i also use it to loose some speed or to steady the bike whilst still having full grip on the throttle.......probs does explain why this site has so many "sticky/seized caliper threads " .......
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When entering a roundabout or sharp corner I use rear brake along with a touch of throttle so when accelerating out the chain slack is taken up, then release brake and add more throttle for a smooth ride out.
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I don't know the comparison of % effectiveness of front and rear brakes,
i guess with twin disks and much larger diameter up front the front must be about 90% compared to rear 10% rear effective braking,,straight line,
There is a reason for the front being so big and effective , its because that is where ther most effective area to use brakes.
In MOTO GP racing the rear is almost never used,,but Nicky Hayden was known for over heating his rear brake all said to be due to his riding background, which was dirt bikng.
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Mick Doohan after destroying his lower right leg had his team install a rear brake lever on the left bar, for discussion's sake anyway!
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My previous comments look a bit self righteous.......i was pissed up & waiting for the football to start :rolleyes ............i dont really know what im talking about....well i do...but only with regards to my own riding style........like i say i have locked up the front wheel twice now so i have some lessons to learn also but the fact remains that locking up the back brake all the time probably means you need to change a habit that has become ingrained.
& lowering the brake pedal was one of the best adjustments i ever made......it's like a 6 foot five person jumping into a nissan micra & pulling the seat fully in towards the steering wheel & then still expecting to have good clutch control.
Good luck, it must be annoying.
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When entering a roundabout or sharp corner I use rear brake along with a touch of throttle so when accelerating out the chain slack is taken up, then release brake and add more throttle for a smooth ride out.
Who taught you that!
Or are you saying your chain is too slack?
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It is not possible to slow a motorcycle from speed quickly and in a stable manner only using the front brake.
You what? Must be something wrong with your bike bud.
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When entering a roundabout or sharp corner I use rear brake along with a touch of throttle so when accelerating out the chain slack is taken up, then release brake and add more throttle for a smooth ride out.
Who taught you that!
Or are you saying your chain is too slack?
Chain is in spec, I mean the snatch from a closed throttle to just a little, I find this method useful particularly on a wet roundabout.
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I personally use my rear brake more than my front, prevents my front from diving at lights and junctions and the front forks being compressed when hitting a fast bend. It's all about personal preference and how you chose to ride. There is no right and wrong and all your self righteous comments are seriously flawed. :rollin
Dazza, when you are sat on your bike, are the handle bars infront of you or behind you? :lol
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Here are some excercises that someone wiser then me was kind enough to share. I still do them but probably not often enough.
The aim is to be smooth and deliberate.
Go find a carpark with a decent surface, pick a marker and practise passing it at - exactly - 25mph. Do this two or three times so you know how it feels, it is not as easy as you might think. When you are comfortable that you have the speed under control, you are ready to begin.
As you pass the marker, pull the clutch and hit the back brake. Try not to lock up, but still stop as quickly as you can. Two or three attempts and you will have the lockups under control. Note where you finish up (drop a coin or bottle top on the ground) and try to stop the bike a bit sooner. You will quickly find that releasing your brake stops you faster then letting it lock up.
Do the same excercise but don't pull the clutch this time. Deliberatly let the bike stall a couple of times until you know exactly how it feels, then try using the clutch at the last possible moment to prevent the stall. Note where you can stop consistently.
Same speed, same marker, pull the clutch and apply pressure to the front brake slowly.
Repeat, pulling the front brake harder and harder to shorten the braking distance until you feel the front lock up. Don't worry, you will know when this happens because it scary and very fucking distracting. So do it again and again until it is scary but not so distracting that you can't do something about it like ease the brake enough to release the lock. Try to keep the front on the edge of locking up all the way to a stop.
Now try again without pulling the clutch. Things will be happening quickly now so when you get a chance, double check you are still passing the marker at - exactly - 25mph. Try it in a higher gear and a lower one to feel the difference it makes.
Now try again using the back brake as well (this is the excercise I find hardest). Not locking the rear will take a few tries as if you are loading up the front leaving very little weight on the back wheel to stop it locking. Try this a few times and you will probably find your self pulling front and rear together, but the rear frimly and front softly, easing up on the rear to avoid locking while firming up the front as the weight transfer gives it more grip.
Take a breather before trying it all again from 30mph.
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if anything the back brake should, if used at speed be applied BEFORE the front......just a dab really...enough to load more weight to the front so that the front can get more stopping power.
Errr, you won't load the front by applying the rear brake...
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if anything the back brake should, if used at speed be applied BEFORE the front......just a dab really...enough to load more weight to the front so that the front can get more stopping power.
Errr, you won't load the front by applying the rear brake...
Yes you will...the weight transfers forward when you apply the back brake and that makes the front end dig in more coz the more weight on the front the better. :)
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I use mine at the end of half mile, 70mph wheelie.......yeah right!
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This has got to be up with the most idiotic ideas ever posted on focu. Only a loop fruit would want to reduce braking efficiency. Learn to ride to the conditions, have a full understanding & knowledge of the the limits of the controls available to you & ride accordingly. If you're regularly locking up alter your technique because it's crap.
Noggy, if bfp is correct why does my front wheel come down when I dab the rear brake doing a wheelie ;)
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Ha ha ha ha ha :lol :lol :lol
Fair play chaps...i dont take anything too seriously & it is a treat to be quoted from one of my earlier pissed up foc u moments....how i managed to actually type that in the first place ill never know....however............
Some of the limited shit i know has come from trial & error...so it is like..baby talk i suppose without any technical jargon or cool bike speak...i prefer this type of talk.
But every so often i do get caught up in some article that i seen somewhere & think yeh that sounds like real sense that does......one such article was before i even passed my bike test...a part of it was about braking...always stuck in my head.
http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/braking/ (http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/braking/)
For the record ive tried the dab of the back brake before the front and it does make you stop faster.......do i do it regularly.....no i don't ever do it when i need to...coz im a twat & too focused on panic braking with the front only.....still here for now though....but that isnt the point is it....i also cant focus on back brake mid corner but id love to some day master these techniques....just because i cant does not make them wrong.
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@DekF
So you missed statement I made where in my B12 dosen't lock up the rear? and now that I think about neither did my ZZR1100. The rear brake on the fazer 600/1000 has always been overkill, plain and simple. I have been making a concious effort to reduce the amount of rear brake I use, but slagging of my or someone else's riding skill is pointless. There is no way to gauge how long it will take for said 'concious effort' to translate into emergency situations, if at all.
In the meantime I still need to get around to moving the lever, checking the brake disc for true and changing the rear pads.
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If you have a center stand this will help make it easier
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If you have a center stand this will help make it easier
FZS1000's come with a CS as standard.
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@DekF
So you missed statement I made where in my B12 dosen't lock up the rear? and now that I think about neither did my ZZR1100. The rear brake on the fazer 600/1000 has always been overkill, plain and simple. I have been making a concious effort to reduce the amount of rear brake I use, but slagging of my or someone else's riding skill is pointless. There is no way to gauge how long it will take for said 'concious effort' to translate into emergency situations, if at all.
In the meantime I still need to get around to moving the lever, checking the brake disc for true and changing the rear pads.
Your Fazer doesn't lock the rear, you do, and the fact that you think it is a brake or bike problem is why your technique is being criticized. Yes it is possible that you have a problem with your brake, and you have been told how to check it, but when you say something as silly as "There is no way to gauge how long it will take for said 'concious effort' to translate into emergency situations[/size][size=78%]", it makes it difficult to take you seriously. How long it will takes is directly related to how hard you practice. [/size][/size]Deliberately[/size][size=78%] practice doing it right until you don't have to think about it and you have a chance of doing it right when you don't have time to think about it. Don't practice and you have no chance. [/size]
[/size][size=78%] [/size]
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I can't believe you're considering replacing a decent braking system with 9 year old hoses, that could split on you (you wouldn't have whinge them, eh?) - before you've even adjusted the pedal to suit you. As Paul said above - difficult to take you seriously...
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I hardly use my rear brake, maybe just to stabilise the bike before chucking into a corner, oh and on hill starts, but apart from that no....I do keep it in good order though.... :)
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Ive read & re-read the posts on this thread & I cant understand what your problem with the back brake is!
Yamaha in their wisdom(they know a thing or two about bikes) decided to fit twin discs to the front wheel each with 4 piston opposed calipers and a single disc of a smaller diameter with two opposed piston caliper to the rear.
Its pretty obvious which brake does most of the work!...but there are times when you wouldnt want to use the front...just as there are occasions when its a good idea to use both together.
Unlike cars where one pedal controls the brakes on all 4 wheels-some using sophisticated pressure limiting devices to avoid lockup, bikes have two independent braking systems with very different physics involved.
So unless you buy a bike with ABS,TCS etc fitted as standard you just have to learn how to brake properly,safely& effectively.
Any talk of fitting old (possibly perished) hoses/inferior brake pads tells me you need to practice finesse with your technique. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with the standard set up which can only be improved by fitting braided hoses(rubber hoses have a limited life span) and it doesnt matter what you do/spend on your bike it wont make you a better rider. Only practice/training will do that.
The last thing anyone wants is some nagging doubt about the condition of the brake systems especially under emergency braking conditions. A locked wheel is a useless wheel so as said by others examine your technique and practice. Many novices fail to appreciate how hard you can actually brake UNDER FULL CONTROL!