old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: positron on 11 June 2014, 12:28:38 pm
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Hi,
2003 Fazer is my main commuter and I do about 60-70 miles a day. It was restricted to 33 bhp up until March, so it didn't revv past 7-8k, so I assumed it's the restriction. However, since the restriction washers has been removed, I can feel the overall power has gone up much higher, but the bike seems to struggle when it reaches around 7-8k rpm on the motorway. When it reaches this rpm range, it feels as hesitant to go forward, as if someone is applying and releasing the brake rapidly. This is the case in 6th, 5th and even 4th gear. I can take beyond 8k on 3rd gear if I remember correctly, I will confirm later. Over all fuel consumption has shot up since derestriction. And especially when I take the bike to this 'boggle zone', I can almost see the fuel needle moving! I have checked the exhuast headers and all four seems to hot - meaning all four cylinders are firing. Bike is serviced every six-nine months (6-9k miles)
What could this be? Where should I start? I should add I don't really know much about the inner workings of the bikes - but I am ready to invest some money and time and keen to learn.
Thanks a million!
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I'm only guessing here I don't know for sure but it sounds a bit like it's still restricted. There's two types of restrictor kits for the carb fazer the washers type and the type that uses different springs and needles. Maybe your bike was already restricted with the springs and needle kit and you then put in the washers
(http://i.imgur.com/MXYe06W.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fLknPjM.jpg)
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Thank you so much. This might very well be the case - I bought the bike off a dude who said he bought it off a Driving School. He said it's not restricted, so I assumed that's right and got it restricted with washers. Oh dear!
Anyway, I tried to get it to rev past 8k in lower gears today on the motorway, and it won't. Say I am going as far as 6th will take me (hitting the 8k limit), I pull the clutch, and the bike free revvs to 10-12k, but as soon as I let off the clutch and put load on the engine, it goes brrr.. brrrr.. holding back and serious engine braking. This was the case even when I took it all the way down to 2nd gear! Finally back in 6th, I pulled the clutch in, let it revv to 12k, and let the clutch out and the RPM dial starts going from 0 - 4k - to real RPM I am doing - back to 0 - 4k - like that 2-3 second each at each position. It reverted back to normal once I stopped, turned the bike off and back on again.
If it is indeed restricted with the spring / needle mechanism, is that something I can DIY, or would I need to bring it to my mechanic?
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Check the air intake seals around the carbs and also the timing?
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Always start with the simple things and rule them out.
You try running it with the tank filler cap open rules out a partially blocked breather (when tank is less than half full of fuel stops it spilling)
Is the fuel tap turned on fully
Check the fuel pipe to ensure it is fitted correctly and not flattened. The pipe to the tank is routed under the frame cross link, many route it over it and the tank flattens it.
Check the fuel filter and change it if unsure.
Check the Air Filter is it badly clogged, I have seen many a DIY mechanic strip the carbs when all it needed was a new filter.
Since the tank is off
Remove top of one Carb (right side is easist) to see if it has factory restriction (His dudeness pictures show you what you are looking for on the cover)
Drain the carbs could be dirt being sucked up
Check the float heights with a plastic hose attached to the the drain hole.
Check for loose spark plug caps.
If all these check out come back to the forum and we can suggest other options
These are all easy thing to do before you start stripping anything
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Thank you for the comments, and apologies for the delay in trying the steps out.
I tilted the tank up and checked the fuel tap and fuel pipe routing. Fully on and pipe not flattened out. I checked the breather pipes (the two things that open up at the bottom of the tank, and they look okay, and they are sitting into a little rubber cup thingee, so I assume they are not blocked. I couldn't try riding with the tank filler cap open as I couldn't get the key out of the tank filler cap when it's not closed (It just occured to me that I could have used my second key... doh, will try that soon).
Air filter was replaced within last six months or so, I don't know about fuel filter though. I don't have these handy, so I will order them in and try changing them. Last week the bike felt really clunky in the front and felt as if there is massive engine braking as soon as I let go off power. Turns out that the front wheel bearing was badly shot. I got that replaced by my mechanic, and it feels better now, but the 6.5k/7k issue is still there. My mechanic reckons it might be carb related, but he can't be sure unless he starts stripping the bike to have a good look (which sounds expensive...)
Thanks again, I'll report back when I have done some more work.
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After you have tried the things unfazed has suggested, try looking at your clutch. Open up the clutch cover and look at the torques for the outer pressure plate cover and also the see if the springs have worn and gone soft. You can also check on the clutch plates and steel pressure plates to check for blueing? Just another thought as the engine will clearly go past 8k when clutch is in but when the clutch is released it bogs down, maybe clutch isn't engaging properly to get the torque needed. You may also check the crank case breather? Now and again I kept getting the slight bog down but wasn't all the time, after a few investigations I did notice the crankcase breather was filling with a creamy sludge and was filling into my air box. A simple and free alteration soon cured this and now get no bog downs and actually get better acceleration and higher revs, think I've actually hit just over 14k.
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Massive respect for your knowledgible foc'ers, the problem has gone away! :D :D
Over the week the bike was running even weaker and poorer and I was finding it hard to keep up with the traffic. I had started avoiding motorways and had to sit back behind the traffic on B roads as the bike was not accelerating past 5.5 - 6k, and as soon as it hits that particular rev spot, bike actually slows down equivalent to going couple of gears down and it was altogether getting a bit too dangerous for everyone.
Over the week I tried riding it with tank lid open. It didn't improve the situation.
Today after scanning thru this excellent forum for details, I carefully removed the tank, and peeled back the big rubber cover over the air filter box thingee (I had to remove the bracket where tank attaches to, and the two black plastic panels on both sides of the bike), and took out the air filter. This doesn't look too bad, does it?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4lZi1KcuHsA/U7l5f9IFWcI/AAAAAAAAGYA/i1WsUM_hFb8/w428-h577-no/IMG_20140706_172943.jpg)
I didn't have a new one to replace it with, so I cleaned it from inside with the hoover, and put everything back in (didn't forget to turn the fuel back on, thanks to my overly excited three year old girl reminding me), and rode out to nearly open stretch of road and as the rev went past the 7k and then 8k mark I was so delighted it's as if I won a race or something! :D :D
Now I don't know if it was cleaning the filter that did the trick OR (embarrassing part) that I noticed the female connector part of the gerbings heated gloves connector lead that I had folded back under the seat had slipped under and was sticking into one of the three air intake squares.... it probably was blocking some of the air going in..!!
Thanks again for the pointers folks, they were all certainly in the right direction. I am considering splashing out on a K&N air filter with the money I saved today (had I got to the local mechanic who said he will strip the bike to see what is wrong).
I have more issues with the bike - idle running is too low and it cuts out all the time, it needs a new right side mirror, main stand, main light is pointing to the left and too high etc etc. I will give it my best shot reading and learning from here. So much fun! :)
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What mileage is on the bike?
The filter is bad, have you seen an new one :)
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What mileage is on the bike?
The filter is bad, have you seen an new one :)
Bike has done around 70k miles. I haven't seen a new filter, so that's the reason then? I thought the filter was replaced within last year, bit may be not. Thanks again!
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That filter does not look like it was changed last year. :)
When the bike is at full temp, set the tick over by turning the black knob on the bottom left of the carburettor bank
Clockwise increases the tick over speed
Anti Clockwise decreases the tick over speed
Set it to around 1100 to 1250 rpm
New OEM filter is white and you can see light through it :lol
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Put a K&N in there and you'll probably hear the bike take a deep breath. :lol
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That filter does not look like it was changed last year. :)
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New OEM filter is white and you can see light through it :lol
Wow. I have a note here from February this year saying the mechanic changed air filter. That's just crazy. Is he duping me? I thought he's a nice honest lad. I will have to pull out the receipt and double check. I really hope it was a mistake from my part.
Seeing bike has already done 70k+ miles, would a K&N air filter be kinda aspirational? Def not getting hiflow air filter based on the experiences here :D#
The said note I had somewhere (it's not much, but may be you guys get a laugh out of it, figures are in EURO not Sterling)
4 new spark plugs.
new oil and filter.
new air filter
new front brake lever
new rear break pads
new rear piston seals etc, piston & calipers serviced and reconditioned
33 bhp RESTRICTOR WASHERS taken out from the carb intake - FULL POWER NOW.
3 hours of labour x 50.
+ VAT brought it to 340.
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Here's an old filter that has been lying in my garage for 2 years....i replaced it with a K&N
Ok so this filter didn't see many miles but demonstrates the difference.....it is a genuine yamaha part.
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Thanks a million noggy, mine looked dirtier I rekon. Here's one more photo that I had taken yesterday.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jrDumlsbcAE/U7l5YIRl_lI/AAAAAAAAGYU/6tATyk33Z-Q/w370-h500-no/IMG_20140706_172909.jpg)
I guess I will follow the good advice here and go for K&N air filter. And possibly a new mechanic may be... :(
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Doesnt look like a yamaha oem one either....i cant see the serial number.
Look at mine and the serial number is clearly visible.
You wont go far wrong with a K&N.
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K&N recommended. Condition of old filter depends a lot on how dusty it is where you're riding of course!
Andy
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That filter does not look like it was changed last year. :)
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New OEM filter is white and you can see light through it :lol
Wow. I have a note here from February this year saying the mechanic changed air filter. That's just crazy. Is he duping me? I thought he's a nice honest lad. I will have to pull out the receipt and double check. I really hope it was a mistake from my part.
Seeing bike has already done 70k+ miles, would a K&N air filter be kinda aspirational? Def not getting hiflow air filter based on the experiences here :D #
The said note I had somewhere (it's not much, but may be you guys get a laugh out of it, figures are in EURO not Sterling)
4 new spark plugs.
new oil and filter.
new air filter
new front brake lever
new rear break pads
new rear piston seals etc, piston & calipers serviced and reconditioned
33 bhp RESTRICTOR WASHERS taken out from the carb intake - FULL POWER NOW.
3 hours of labour x 50.
+ VAT brought it to 340.
Are you saying that's also a Hi-Flo filter?
If so they have caused a few of us problems before, including me, they are cheap rubbish that simply don't let in the normal amount of air needed.
Go K&N, it'll feel like a new bike. :)
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There you go Noggy a sale for your K&N :lol
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There you go Noggy a sale for your K&N :lol
It was sold long ago :)
Actually pretty much the whole bike is sold in theory...it seems that it pays to plan ahead with dibs......will i make more money than if i just sold the bike......hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....im not sure yet........but I've enjoyed the strip & if i ever get another fzs600 ill have a bit more knowledge about where things are and how difficult they are to get at/off/on........plus ive got a bag of bolts n bits......you just cant put a price on a bag of bolts n bits :lol
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That filter does not look like it was changed last year. :)
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New OEM filter is white and you can see light through it :lol
Wow. I have a note here from February this year saying the mechanic changed air filter. That's just crazy. Is he duping me? I thought he's a nice honest lad. I will have to pull out the receipt and double check. I really hope it was a mistake from my part.
Seeing bike has already done 70k+ miles, would a K&N air filter be kinda aspirational? Def not getting hiflow air filter based on the experiences here :D #
The said note I had somewhere (it's not much, but may be you guys get a laugh out of it, figures are in EURO not Sterling)
4 new spark plugs.
new oil and filter.
new air filter
new front brake lever
new rear break pads
new rear piston seals etc, piston & calipers serviced and reconditioned
33 bhp RESTRICTOR WASHERS taken out from the carb intake - FULL POWER NOW.
3 hours of labour x 50.
+ VAT brought it to 340.
Positron. Are you living in Ireland or the Continent?
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That filter does not look like it was changed last year. :)
....
New OEM filter is white and you can see light through it :lol
Wow. I have a note here from February this year saying the mechanic changed air filter. That's just crazy. Is he duping me? I thought he's a nice honest lad. I will have to pull out the receipt and double check. I really hope it was a mistake from my part.
Seeing bike has already done 70k+ miles, would a K&N air filter be kinda aspirational? Def not getting hiflow air filter based on the experiences here :D #
The said note I had somewhere (it's not much, but may be you guys get a laugh out of it, figures are in EURO not Sterling)
4 new spark plugs.
new oil and filter.
new air filter
new front brake lever
new rear break pads
new rear piston seals etc, piston & calipers serviced and reconditioned
33 bhp RESTRICTOR WASHERS taken out from the carb intake - FULL POWER NOW.
3 hours of labour x 50.
+ VAT brought it to 340.
Positron. Are you living in Ireland or the Continent?
Ireland, plenty of lovely rain keeping the dust down...
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Where in the Emerald Isle? I live near Cork City.
Would say that.
We had a great dry summer last year, three dry days in a row in July :lol
Even better this year seven dry days in a row, confused the foc out of us :lol
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Where in the Emerald Isle? I live near Cork City.
Would say that.
We had a great dry summer last year, three dry days in a row in July :lol
Even better this year seven dry days in a row, confused the foc out of us :lol
Drogheda. I recognized your username from the other site - remember the long PR2/PR3 thread? Yes sir, I am guilty of getting 20k miles out of a PR3 rear! :D
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Where in the Emerald Isle? I live near Cork City.
Would say that.
We had a great dry summer last year, three dry days in a row in July :lol
Even better this year seven dry days in a row, confused the foc out of us :lol
Drogheda. I recognized your username from the other site - remember the long PR2/PR3 thread? Yes sir, I am guilty of getting 20k miles out of a PR3 rear! :D
And 70,000 miles out of a paper air filter :lol
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And 70,000 miles out of a paper air filter :lol
:'( Possibly! In my defense, I get it fully serviced every year and when the mechanic charged me for an air filter I assumed he had changed it. Last FULL (read expensive, €340 euro = £270) service was in February, just 5 months ago! Coming to that stage that I am spending more on the bike per year than the bike is worth... :lol
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Had a similar scenario years ago when i was having work done on my bike and asked for the front calipers to be cleaned up while he had the bike.
I had them apart a few months later and they were in a right state, they couldn't have been touched at all.
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And 70,000 miles out of a paper air filter :lol
:'( Possibly! In my defense, I get it fully serviced every year and when the mechanic charged me for an air filter I assumed he had changed it. Last FULL (read expensive, €340 euro = £270) service was in February, just 5 months ago! Coming to that stage that I am spending more on the bike per year than the bike is worth... :lol
Maybe it is time you started to learn how to do the basic stuff yourself. :)
In 1977 I was fleeced by a Motorcycle dealer in Dublin because I did not have Vacuum Gauges or the tool for adjusting the tappats on a GS550 Suzuki. I swore after that I would never darken the door of a dealer again other than to buy a bike or maybe spares. :finger
Two weeks later I bought both items in the USA and a friend who was on holidays in the USA brought them to Ireland when he was returning home. (I still have them).. A month later I bought a torque spanner and now own 3 of them. :)
I have never left any of my bikes near a shop since, I even change and balance my own tyres.
I o help a friend who is a bike mechanic with electrics and electronics and recently he had a bike which the owner took out of the dealers because there were charging so much to sort out the lack of charging (no pun intended) on his bike. When he took the bike out and gave it to my friend, we discovered they had melted the ignition switch after fitting the wrong regulator to it and chopped the wiring loom to fit the wrong regulator. :wall
Invest is a few good quality tools and especially a good torque spanner in the range of 5 to 50 Nm 3/8 drive. (The 3 torque spanners I have range from 0 to 20Nm, 3/8 drive, 8 to 50Nm 3/8 drive and 20 to 150Nm 1/2 drive). At least as a beginner you will know bolts are tightened properly. There are many small bolts on bikes which are easily overtightened and stripped.
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Absolutely. The best part of doing own maintenance is memories like that one right there.
I would really love to try and fix and learn in the process. Lack of time and initial investment stands in the way, but when if I add up how much I am paying to mechanic for simplest of things, it's a no-brainer. So far I've managed to change the downpipes, fix some minor cosmetic stuff and tighten the chain, but that's about it. I just don't have the right tools for the job as is, and you are right about sheering nuts and bolts, I've already butchered a few. :(
Problem is many fold I guess - I have attention span of a gold fish. Secondly, I have no warm place to work on the bike when it turns cold, which is a problem as I commute year round (even when it snows). Frozen fingers against sharp cold edges = excruciating pain to my wussy Indian hands that's designed excel in 30+ degree C! I may have to fix up or upgrade my garden shed to accommodate a bike or two in near future. And My "tool set" so far is pitiful - just an Halfords ratchet set, couple of spanners, bunch of screw drivers and others odd bits and pieces. Oh and an Aldi (or was it lidl) torque wrench (28-210 nm) which I am yet to use... I have been looking for a torque wrench (spanner?) at the lower range like you suggested, but they are all €70+ range... but perhaps I do need to spend that much for quality stuff. Any particular recommendations?
PS: Order placed for K&N air filter with wemoto yesterday.
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Hmm, somehow I thought these were more expensive.. This looks affordable..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-STW1011-Micrometer-7-112Nm-5-83lb-ft/dp/B000ROF64O (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-STW1011-Micrometer-7-112Nm-5-83lb-ft/dp/B000ROF64O)
but this looks fancy (unaffordable)
http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/hand-tools/halfords-professional-torque-wrench-8-60nm (http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/hand-tools/halfords-professional-torque-wrench-8-60nm)
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I, and a few others on here, own this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-28757-8-inch-10-Ratchet/dp/B009VYBFBO/ref=sr_1_2?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1404891984&sr=1-2&keywords=torque+wrench) one, £25 reduced from £65. 10-80 Nm and it's pretty accurate, at the lower end you need to slightly adjust it according to this scale (reading=real), useful if you're doing the exhaust studs up to 10 Nm and don't want to snap anything! -
3Nm=5Nm, 8Nm=10Nm, 9Nm=10.9Nm, 11Nm=12.5Nm, 13Nm=13.5Nm, 15Nm=14.9Nm, 20Nm=19.9Nm.
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I prefer to go for a smaller range which is why I have 3. Much easier to set 10 on a scale of 0 to 20 than set it on a scale of 5 to 100.
Generally the shorter scales are more accurate. I have Norbars which have an accuracy of + or -3/%.
Most important rules of torque wrenches is
1.Trust them when they click, it is tight enough, do not go the extra bit to be sure
2. Wind them back to the stop when finished using them.
3. Do not use them for undoing bolts or nuts
4. Do not drop them of throw them around.
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I, and a few others on here, own this ([url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-28757-8-inch-10-Ratchet/dp/B009VYBFBO/ref=sr_1_2?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1404891984&sr=1-2&keywords=torque+wrench[/url]) one, £25 reduced from £65. 10-80 Nm and it's pretty accurate, at the lower end you need to slightly adjust it according to this scale (reading=real), useful if you're doing the exhaust studs up to 10 Nm and don't want to snap anything! -
3Nm=5Nm, 8Nm=10Nm, 9Nm=10.9Nm, 11Nm=12.5Nm, 13Nm=13.5Nm, 15Nm=14.9Nm, 20Nm=19.9Nm.
Thank you, I like that one. So based on the scale, you can't get to any of the sub 10.9Nm settings with that Draper? Is that okay with motorbikes in general and perhaps pedal bikes in future?
And I wonder how does this Teng 5-25 nm 1/4 compare (especially since I already have a 28-200 Aldi one):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teng-1492AGE-5-25nm-4-inch-Torque/dp/B000Y8J2CA/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1404992352&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teng-1492AGE-5-25nm-4-inch-Torque/dp/B000Y8J2CA/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1404992352&sr=1-1)
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Ideal if you have 1/4 drive sockets.
Most used 1/4 drive sockets are 8 10 and 12mm and a 150mm 1/4 drive plus extension bar
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Thanks my this is my current socket set: http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/socket-sets/phaze-50-piece-socket-set (http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/socket-sets/phaze-50-piece-socket-set)
* 5 x 3/8" Drive 6pt sockets: 1/2", 9/16", 5/8", 11/16", 3/4
* 4 x 3/8" Drive 6pt sockets: 13, 14, 15, 17mm
* 8 x 1/4" Drive 6pt sockets: 3/16", 7/32", 1/4", 9/32", 5/16", 11/32", 3/8", 7/16"
* 9 x 1/4" Drive 6pt sockets: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12mm
The mix of fractions wrecks my head - I much prefer decimals, in fact back in school I didn't really get into fractions until I was 12 and I was tasked to help a bunch of juniors to learn fractions. Strong mental block! :)
While I am still waiting for wemoto to deliver K&N air fliter, I dug out my last full service receipt dated 7th Feb 2014, and it says:
Spark plug - 4 x 10.13 - €40.52
Oil - 2.60 x 8.37 - €21.76
Oil filter - €9.69
Air filter - €16.70
Rear break pads - €25.11
Rear caliper seal kit - €14.40
Brake fluid - €3.96
Front brake lever - 17.62 (it was broken when a junkie kicked my bike over outside my office)
And you guys reckon that filter is older than 6 months? Jesus christ, may be I should check my spark plugs, brake pads etc too now :(
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Thanks my this is my current socket set: [url]http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/socket-sets/phaze-50-piece-socket-set[/url] ([url]http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/socket-sets/phaze-50-piece-socket-set[/url])
* 5 x 3/8" Drive 6pt sockets: 1/2", 9/16", 5/8", 11/16", 3/4
* 4 x 3/8" Drive 6pt sockets: 13, 14, 15, 17mm
* 8 x 1/4" Drive 6pt sockets: 3/16", 7/32", 1/4", 9/32", 5/16", 11/32", 3/8", 7/16"
* 9 x 1/4" Drive 6pt sockets: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12mm
The mix of fractions wrecks my head - I much prefer decimals, in fact back in school I didn't really get into fractions until I was 12 and I was tasked to help a bunch of juniors to learn fractions. Strong mental block! :)
While I am still waiting for wemoto to deliver K&N air fliter, I dug out my last full service receipt dated 7th Feb 2014, and it says:
Spark plug - 4 x 10.13 - €40.52
Oil - 2.60 x 8.37 - €21.76
Oil filter - €9.69
Air filter - €16.70
Rear break pads - €25.11
Rear caliper seal kit - €14.40
Brake fluid - €3.96
Front brake lever - 17.62 (it was broken when a junkie kicked my bike over outside my office)
And you guys reckon that filter is older than 6 months? Jesus christ, may be I should check my spark plugs, brake pads etc too now :(
That air filter is probably older than 6 years more like.
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Thanks my this is my current socket set: [url]http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/socket-sets/phaze-50-piece-socket-set[/url] ([url]http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/garage-equipment/socket-sets/phaze-50-piece-socket-set[/url])
* 5 x 3/8" Drive 6pt sockets: 1/2", 9/16", 5/8", 11/16", 3/4
* 4 x 3/8" Drive 6pt sockets: 13, 14, 15, 17mm
* 8 x 1/4" Drive 6pt sockets: 3/16", 7/32", 1/4", 9/32", 5/16", 11/32", 3/8", 7/16"
* 9 x 1/4" Drive 6pt sockets: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12mm
And you guys reckon that filter is older than 6 months? Jesus christ, may be I should check my spark plugs, brake pads etc too now :(
Get rid of the fraction as you call them, correct name is imperial and are no use, unless you are fixing old English motorbikes. All nuts and bolts on the fazer are metric.
Definitely much older then six months unless you were riding around in a working coal mine :lol
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Okay that's a lot of confirmation for the age of air filter. So my mechanic either made an honest mistake, or he was shafting me. I need to establish which because otherwise I should look to replace spark plugs, brake pads etc too asap. Not looking forward to speaking to the mechanic again to be honest.
On the plus side, K&N filter arrived yesterday and I installed it last night. Obligatory Old vs New photo.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RErUoqT_ozs/U8WMEz8V7lI/AAAAAAAAGdw/mW7RIpZiBiY/w1159-h869-no/IMG_20140715_200944.jpg)
This morning on my usual route to work (68 kms, plenty of time to assess everything), bike didn't feel any different at first, but within about 4-5 kms and it was obviously revving free'r and felt better around 4-6k rpm range. There wasn't any significant increase in power that I could feel at that range to be honest, it just felt better. Further up 6-8 felt great, and bike was happy to sing along to 8-11k as well which is as far as I could take it on the motorway today. The The free'ness in 5-8k range is brilliant because that's where I am most at.
Thank you again to everyone for helping me sort this particular issue, but even more importantly, for getting me back into DIY mode.
I am not out of the woods yet though. Bike now cuts out when warm - for instance at the end of my commute to work today, if I pull the clutch in coasting down a hill, it would just die. Coming to traffic light, pull cluch in, it would die. I have to constantly keep a tiny bit of acceleration to keep the engine running. When cold, the idle is ridiculously low - it's like 500 rpm or less even. I can't seem adjust it as the idle adjusting thingee on the right side under the tank isn't turning. Well it's turning, but I think it's the entire cable thing behind it that is turning. Perhaps I should try dousing it on WD40 etc for a day or two and it might free up? Is there anything else that could cause it to die so easily when engine is really warm?
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From memory I'm pretty sure the idle idle adjuster is on the left side?
EDIT: actually maybe you're right I forgot now. I do my choke manually on left side so I may be confusing with that.
Does the idle speed adjust when you adjust the control?
Certainly a bit of WD40 or similar on the carb mechanisms once in a while can help them remain free. I snapped my choke cable due to a seized mechanism on the carb but WD40 released it no problem.
Just to give you an indication what you're looking for, my bike is set to idle at 1200 - 1300 when fully warmed up, with translates in to an idle of about 1,000 when the engine is cold (normal weather). If it's a very cold day then it might be lower and need a bit of choke.
Andy
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Hey fella,
I remembered that another user (Macca4786) had a similar problem with their Idle Adjuster doing nothing, turned out it had completely unscrewed from the carbs. He managed to screw it back in without taking the carbs off, much to everyone's surprise!
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,11462.msg123283.html#msg123283 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,11462.msg123283.html#msg123283)
Cheers...Buzz
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From memory I'm pretty sure the idle idle adjuster is on the left side?
EDIT: actually maybe you're right I forgot now. I do my choke manually on left side so I may be confusing with that.
You are correct, it's on the left.. Or is it too late to say "I meant the other right"? :D
Thanks Buzz, will have a read thru that thread now.
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Leave the choke at half position for longer untill warmed up, you'll know definatley if you leave it on for too long as the bike willstart to become sluggish.
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Thanks again for the tips, managed to set the idle speed right with some WD40 and by holding the cable steady with o e hand while turning the knob with the other. Just over 1000 rpm now and looks good. I will have to wait till Monday to see if it has fixed the problem.
While I had the tools out, I also adjusted the rear shock preload tighter by two more notches. I didn't have any major issues to start off with, but thought I would see how it feels.
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Idle should be around 1500 I think according to haynes :)
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Idle should be around 1500 I think according to haynes :)
The correct idle speed range for the FZS 600 is 1150-1250rpm. This needs to be adjusted with the engine up to normal operating temperature. Good luck!
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Idle should be around 1500 I think according to haynes :)
The correct idle speed range for the FZS 600 is 1150-1250rpm. This needs to be adjusted with the engine up to normal operating temperature. Good luck!
as mentioned in"unfazeds" post on 7th July!
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A lot of enthusiasm + lack of knowledge + not having right tools + monkey fist * stupidity = disaster(s). Woops!
Okay, so my bike is a bit of a mess. The more I look the more issues I find, and unfortunately the more I try to fix it the more I make it worse...
Trying to adjust the chain, undid the rear axle nut, but both nuts on the chain adjuster bolt on the right side were well seized, and yes, I broke the bolt! It's still long enough for the first nut, just no room for the locking nut. On the plus side that adjuster nut that is there is now turning, so I have set the chain slack right (I hope), but when a new chain goes on I will to get a new bolt in there. I hope that's not too hard / expensive job.
Then I upped my antics, and lifted the front of the bike up putting axle stands somewhere close to where the main stand would be.. ish. And I found that the front calipers are fairly tight on the disk and the wheel is barely turning, and trying to manhandle it out the bike moved a bit, slipped from the axle stand, and somehow it got to the 'water pump outlet hose' thingee (according to the manual) at the left side of the bike, and it's put a hole there. Double Doh!! It spits out coolant if I run the engine. Anyone know where to get one of these, they look easy enough to change - two clamps and should be straight forward right? And new coolant of course. In the meantime would it be worth trying to wrap it in some self-amalgamating tape?
Something like this: http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/auto-parts/car-tape-glue-velcro/harris-pipe--hose-repair-tape-25mmx3m (http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/auto-parts/car-tape-glue-velcro/harris-pipe--hose-repair-tape-25mmx3m)
The brake pads looks bad. I could see uneven wear - thinner at the front of the pads, thicker at the back. Not much life left anyway. Pistons are not moving all the way back. I don't know how to really service calipers. I guess I will hit youtube and see if there's any good videos about it.
On the plus side I am learning... something... I hope I am. And my dad, an ex-army engineer, on skype from India had a hearty laugh at the mess I got myself into. His advice: advice: get a new bike.
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Does it run okay around the 2 to 3000rpm mark, or is it a bit jerky at all with plenty of clutch control needed?
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Does it run okay around the 2 to 3000rpm mark, or is it a bit jerky at all with plenty of clutch control needed?
It runs okay. Are you referring to the 8k issue? That's been solved. I should edit the title of the thread.
I have wrapped the "holy" water pump outlet hose in the two part "haris pipe and hose repair tape". It was horrible to do it as there was very little room behind that pipe, and I suspect if it would actually contain the leak. I haven't started it, just in case if this self-amalgamating tape thingee needs time to set. Will see how it's in the morning. Does anyone here have one of these yokes (http://www.ebay.ie/itm/yamaha-fzs-600-fzs600-fazer-bottom-radiator-hose-/161218923530?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2589658c0a) lying around, perhaps from upgrading to fancy kit?
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Does it run okay around the 2 to 3000rpm mark, or is it a bit jerky at all with plenty of clutch control needed?
It runs okay. Are you referring to the 8k issue? That's been solved. I should edit the title of the thread.
I have wrapped the "holy" water pump outlet hose in the two part "haris pipe and hose repair tape". It was horrible to do it as there was very little room behind that pipe, and I suspect if it would actually contain the leak. I haven't started it, just in case if this self-amalgamating tape thingee needs time to set. Will see how it's in the morning. Does anyone here have one of these yokes ([url]http://www.ebay.ie/itm/yamaha-fzs-600-fzs600-fazer-bottom-radiator-hose-/161218923530?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2589658c0a[/url]) lying around, perhaps from upgrading to fancy kit?
Positron....take a deep breath...and relax :lol
Firstly...the swingarm.....everything is replaceable......but you gotta stop foccing things up.....I've got to be honest I've never needed to adjust the chain myself...by the time I need tyres and the tyre guys take them off and they do it up....I dunno every time I checked the chain it was ok.....but the standard spanners for the adjustors are just woeful anyway.
I have offered my swingarm to fizzypies on the cheap if he organises postage, if he doesn't want it then maybe you could be interested....it has new bearings in it so is a little bit future proof.....postage is the killer....and I would get somebody nearby in the know to help you out with fitting it....or just ebay for the adjustor parts and replace them instead....I only want £15 for the swingarm which covers my time only in taking it off and cleaning it up...like I say postage is the issue.
The rad hose.....ok I kept my old rad hoses for this reason....but some may be missing...post up a pic of the one you need and ill have a look.......if you pay postage on it then you can have it.....if I have it.
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Does it run okay around the 2 to 3000rpm mark, or is it a bit jerky at all with plenty of clutch control needed?
It runs okay. Are you referring to the 8k issue? That's been solved. I should edit the title of the thread.
I have wrapped the "holy" water pump outlet hose in the two part "haris pipe and hose repair tape". It was horrible to do it as there was very little room behind that pipe, and I suspect if it would actually contain the leak. I haven't started it, just in case if this self-amalgamating tape thingee needs time to set. Will see how it's in the morning. Does anyone here have one of these yokes ([url]http://www.ebay.ie/itm/yamaha-fzs-600-fzs600-fazer-bottom-radiator-hose-/161218923530?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2589658c0a[/url]) lying around, perhaps from upgrading to fancy kit?
Ignore me, i was reading earlier about the bike cutting out but can see you got it sorted. :)
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but you gotta stop foccing things up....
Okay. Done.
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...
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No, I give up - it's too hard. I was born this way it seems.
Thank you for the offer, you are very kind. Postage might be an issue for swing arm. And this is the water hose thingee picture, it's on the left side of the bike.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uA5cxsedaKY/U8vPiPCcwzI/AAAAAAAAGj0/LaS5kxDXeNE/w692-h519-no/IMG_20140720_130333.jpg)
I am meeting someone who is taking apart a crashed fallen Fazer for a main stand, I will see if he has this yoke. If not I might just take you up on that offer.
daarsi, thanks, it seems to be running fine at 2-3k speeds, I am yet to have a good long run after setting the correct idle speed, but I might not have that pleasure for a while if my band-aid work doesn't stop the coolant leak. Thanks again.
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Ok sorry but cant be arsed to read everything but saw sum pictures of old and new filters so here is --- was mine after 15years on the bike and 15k miles against a new oem one and I saw no difference in the bike after fitting
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8824;image) (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8823;image)
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8825;image) (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8826;image)
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Have you checked where the pipe is leaking from? It might have just moved from the fall rather than split. If you want to get new Yamaha parts use this parts manual http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=13 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=13) Danfay are the main Yamaha parts dealer in Dublin. If you call them up and quote the parts number they'll give you a price.
Danfay Ltd
61 Sallynoggin rd Co. Dublin
Phone: (01)2859177
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Ok sorry but cant be arsed to read everything but saw sum pictures of old and new filters so here is --- was mine after 15years on the bike and 15k miles against a new oem one and I saw no difference in the bike after fitting
([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8824;image[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8823;image[/url])
([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8825;image[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6412.0;attach=8826;image[/url])
If you'd taken the time to have a little read you'd realise the reason he can feel a difference is because he's swapped an original for a K&N, which has a greater air flow in comparison.
All you've done is swap the same one for a newer one so, although you were rather late doing it, you wouldn't have noticed too much of a difference.
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Positron-I am reading the continuing saga/drama of this thread and ,without meaning to patronise you, you remind me very much of the way I was as a youngster(I was once!).
Salient points;
You need your bike on the road to commute(presumably to work?)
You dont have a lot of time/knowledge/many tools
You say youre heavy handed with limited attention span.
As "noggy" says....Slow down,take a deep breath.
We all need help from others-hence this fantastic forum with all the knowledge it has to offer (often gained by bitter experience!)
Thoughts for consideration:
I suggest you must have some attention span in order to ride a bike/pass a test-Dont sell yourself short!
Have you got any friends with bike knowledge local to you?
Do you have a copy of the manual for your bike(download from forum)/Haynes manual?
Looks like you are trying to do all the service/maintenance jobs but while trying to save money/learn about your bike-you are maybe rushing at things which is causing you unnecessary pain/expense.
Slowly build up a kit of tools that you will actually use-as "unfazed" says-you will only need certain sizes of sockets/spanners.
Dont start a job that you cant finish before needing bike to ride again-sounds obvious but talking from experience.
For safety critical jobs like brakes if you dont have the knowledge yet-get a wise friend or a trusty dealer.
its taken some of us years to learn how to do things without "foccing" them up & sometimes I still do!
Above all relax & "Give Time Time "
Good luck :lol
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fazersharp, thank you for a side by side photos of the old and new filters. It will certaintly anyone in future googling to learn and DIY.
His Dudeness, yes, can see a half a centimeter split/hole just about a centimeter below where it clamps onto the metal pipe going to the radiator. Thanks for the link, I think I have found the part numbers (from page 7), and it's called "hose 6"
07 90467-26189-00 Clip
08 90450-32051-00 Hose Clamp Assy
11 4YR-12589-00-00 Hose 6
Didn't know Danfay was the main dealers, and they are in Sallynoggin which is just 15 mins from my work address. Brilliant stuff!
Meanwhile, the guy breaking a Fazer has confirmed he has both the chain adjusters and the 'bottom water hose' as he calls it, so I might pick it up later today.
Dave48, thank you kind sir, this forum has already demistified the bike for me in so many levels, but you are right there is so much more to learn before I ruin the bike or put myself in danger. Having said that, now that I am in the semi-deep end of it, I might as well try and change this hose tonight and flush the coolant while at it.. :D :D
Will keep you all posted!
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Posi, i'm in Lucan and have the same bike, most tools needed, a haynes manual, a small bit of experience working on my bike, plenty of patience, and as of right now a broken finger that won't heal right.
I'm out of work for the next few weeks (and the past seven :eek ) - you are more than welcome to drop over and I can provide another pair of hands & eyes and help out if I can!
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Right then positron.........which hose do you need.
Top
Middle
Or
Bottom????
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Also posi here's a centre stand for sale: http://www.adverts.ie/parts/yamaha-fazer-600-centre-stand/5914281 (http://www.adverts.ie/parts/yamaha-fazer-600-centre-stand/5914281)
Nevermind! I see in his ad for breaking the whole bike you have agreed to buy this from him! :lol
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Noggy
If he is not sure, it is the one in the centre of you picture he requires.
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Redthunder, thank you so much, that's so kind of you. I might take you up on that when things really go pear shape... :) That's the same main stand guy I was referring to. Collected the stand today, its a bit rusty, but I might try painting it a bit. Chain adjusters were rusty too, hopefully they will free up with some wd40. He turned up with the wrong hose, and later confirmed he had discarded the one I am after as it was damaged.
Noggy, thank you again and unfazed is right (as usual), its the one in the middle that I am after. They look so clean in your photo. Also are you into photography as well, because your photos are very well lit (from an able rather that straight up flash) and it shows all sorts of details that otherwise would be lost.. Anyway, thanks again, you have my address, post away at whatever postage, I will PayPal you straight away.
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Update: Thanks Noggy, the hose arrived today (minimalist hassle free packaging would put amazon to shame) and it went onto the bike this evening. It fits perfect (as it should) and the whole job was a lot easier than I thought it would be (assuming I did it right, big assumption of course.. :D ).
I had taken the bike to work earlier today, so over 140 kms I had sprayed two counties with my poisonous coolant, and trying to drain the rest of the old green coolant, I was expecting this toxic but "sweet tasting liquid that attracts children and pets" to come out, and out came vile greenish brown liquid that smelled almost like some dehydrated cow's urine! Seriously. And oh yeah... it was supposed to have been changed in Feb. Well I paid for it...! I didn't have any flushing agent, so I went ahead and stuck the hose in via the radiator filler and flushed all the much out for a few minutes. But I couldn't figure out how to drain the 'overflow tank' on the side of the bike. Manual says disconnect the coolant pipe near the radiator filler and drain the 'overflow tank'. But how? That pipe, as far as I can tell, snakes thru the frame and comes into the top of the 'overflow tank'. I obviously missed some detail somewhere. In the end I McGyver'ed it and siphoned everything from the overflow tank using a small tube.
Refilled with an OAT coolant concentrate I bought from Halfords - Comma G30 Glysantin something something, mixed with the freshest Irish council water at 50:50. I was expected this to be Orange, but it turned out to be pink, but my 3 year old loved it. I hope it's the right one, if not, it's easy enough to drain and refill anyway.
One down, many more to go (namely, replacing broken chain adjuster, new chain and sprockets, oil & filter, front brake pads, speedo and oh yeah, after finishing up today I noticed the headlights are not coming on anymore. Which is strange because till I parked up this evening I couldn't turn off the headlights if I wanted to.. It's all or nothing as usual).
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Glad you got the hose buddy....eventually....the weekend didn't help.
I was laughed at by the post office lady about that packaging......I just looked at it and thought to myself "noggy...this is an old hose that has been lying at the back of the shed for over a year....it is made of reinforced rubber and has stood up to 15k miles of the best of British.....so lets not shame it by wrapping it in cotton wool and bubble wrap".....and then on went the address label....straight onto the hose :lol
ref the coolant reservoir...I had the same issue...I was determined so I got this sooker upper thingy from my local motor factors.....a cylinder with a handled piston and a plastic tube....not quite designed for getting out very liquid coolant but if I pumped it quick enough I could get enough in each to time to drain it out in a few goes.
anyway...glad you're getting somewhere with the bike. 8)
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"sooker upper" would have been handy. I took a tube thingee that you find in any household cleaning spray, one end in the reservoir, the other dangling over, one careful suck and then it was over to gravity. I did kick over the anti-bacterial surface cleaner, but oh well..
The minimalist packaging:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-k-rxC0xtFas/U9bEJxo3V1I/AAAAAAAAGr0/95qbbY7EDLw/w563-h422-no/IMG_20140728_180914.jpg)
Stuff that came out of the bike with the old coolant:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lCZvXaPYLp0/U9bELl2pmJI/AAAAAAAAGrw/GuAxLE1SWG0/w317-h422-no/IMG_20140728_191055.jpg)
I hope these photos are visible for the rest of you (not sure if static urls to google photos would actually work).
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Also new bike in the stable. Three year old's first bike and she's chuffed to bits. Already stealing my tools to fix it.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d80rn5VwuCo/U9bGvSvsuhI/AAAAAAAAGsM/2Swyzclua90/w563-h422-no/IMG_20140728_194031.jpg)