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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Craiginuk on 11 April 2014, 12:34:56 pm
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I have a haynes manual but pretty sure first step says "remove engine"
What do i need to remove?
I'm thinking Carbs, Exhaust headers, Radiator. Anything else? Any tips from anyone who has done it before? Also don't want to turn engine over to get to TDC before i strip as there is a stray screw in there somewhere. Will that cause problems later trying to line up timing marks?
Cheers
Craig
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Carbs, headers, radiator can stay in place.
Timing should be OK - just time it up when tdc, but count teeth between cam sprockets before removal so you can put chain back on right.
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You can rotate the engine with the cams out. Just make sure you keep the cam chain tight. When you're putting it back together make sure you're at the tdc mark on the rotor and the marks on the cam shafts line up. Rotate the engine a few times when it's all back together and check that all the marks line up again.
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Once my little dowel arrives from Deefer (thanks again pal) I'll have some photos of timing and how it all lines up. When you lift the head be careful not to lift the block too, else you'll need to pull that and install a new gasket.
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Thanks everyone, just giving the exhaust header bolts a good gt85/wd40 soaking at the moment. Hopefully have a crack at stripping it down tomorrow night. Hoping for minimal damage - Will keep you posted
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I recently changed me down pipes and I spent a week, twice daily dosing the exhaust nuts with wd40.... 7 were a bugger to come out and the 8th rung! If you have a precise blowtorch available use it to heat the nuts first (hopefully without burning the house down), the nut shouldn't need too much heat to get red hot then they should be easy to get off. Now I've gotta pay an engineer to drill out and helicoil my broken stud.... Sake!
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Another thing! When you're taking the headers off. Don't undo the nut in one go. They have ten years worth of crap built up on the threads so loosen them a bit, then tighten them bit, then loosen, then tighten. It'll help breaking up the muck on the threads. If you just undo them in one go the threads will get clogged up and you'll snap the stud!
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Another thing! When you're taking the headers off. Don't undo the nut in one go. They have ten years worth of crap built up on the threads so loosen them a bit, then tighten them bit, then loosen, then tighten. It'll help breaking up the muck on the threads. If you just undo them in one go the threads will get clogged up and you'll snap the stud!
And before retightening, add a squirt of WD40 to lubricate the thread!
If you have any spare, a friend of mine swears by neat diesel oil as a lubricant / release agent. It's nasty stuff, but it bloody works!!
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Havoc, just do it yourself. I got a helicoil kit online for a tenner, drilling was pretty straight forward - just got to be patient.
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Think your right Hightower, night give it a go!
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My local shops wanted to charge me anywhere between £30 and £50 for a single stud to be drilled.
My self-drilled hole isn't square (ie like it comes out the factory) but the flange from my pipes fits over so there is room for it not to be perfect.
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PlusGas is the business when it comes to shifting rusty nuts! Nasty stuff but it fizzes when it comes into contact with rust, give a squirt and leave it overnight but as His Dudeness said don't wind an old nut off in one go, think of taping a thread, 1/2 a turn loose, 1/4 tight and so on :)
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Finally about to start this but want to get some parts on order first.
I'm thinking
Definitely:
Head gasket
4 x exhaust o rings
Maybe:
Tappet cover gasket? Can I re-use original?
Possibly base gasket but hoping not to have to disturb that.
Anything else? Timing chain tenioner gasket? Will I need a new one?
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Ok, when I did mine it was:
Head gasket
Base gasket (when I lifted head off I disturbed the base, but I wanted the block out anyway to make painting easier)
Instant gasket used for cam chain tensioner (get a tube, then you have some for future)
Your valve cover has a rubber gasket so just reuse yours if in good nick.
If you're replacing downpipes check to see if they come with gaskets (my Delkevic ones did). Also, someone on the forum suggested buying some dome cap nuts so they don't get gunked up in future - I did, cheap enough and if it saves this hassle again it'll be worth it.
Another option too, a small tin of Granville head paint (if your head was anything like mine). Costs about a fiver and well worth doing if you have the head off.
While you've got the head off, maybe give the valves a lap too? Kit costs about a tenner, and £24 for valve stem oil seals (although you may not want to take it this far) - I decided to do pretty much everything while I had it off, so I didn't need to take it off again.
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Well the exhaust came off without incident :). I have the rocker cover off but just a bit nervous about taking it all apart now. Does anyone have a pic of how the marks should line up? I cant get it to tdc as the engine won't turn over. What else do i need to mark?
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd479/craiginuk/temporary_zps7f0afe85.jpg)
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Read the yamaha service manual!
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You can't get to tdc how? Taking plugs out will make it easier
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Hi hightower, theres a piece of screw jammed in between inlet valve and head. Didn't want to force it.
I have cams marked and out now. Next challenge is removing the bolts that hold the coolant hoses on to the head. Any tips? Both bolts are really tight! Allen key is bending and don't want to strip anything.
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Just take the rubber hose off instead by removing the clips at the union. Don't actually remove the metal inlets.
As for timing, could you not just turn the crank once all apart (keeping cam chain tight) so it's tdc, and then line the cams with their factory markings. This would be safer I reckon, and easier. If not, make sure to mark crank as well then.
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Thanks - ok will remove clips and leave the inlets where they are.
I've marked crank position as well as cam sprockets and chain position on them. So will try to put back as it is positioned now. Then once it's all moving freely will double check the factory marks line up.
Never had a 4cyl bike engine in this many pieces so sorry for the stupid questions :) many thanks for the help.
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Thanks - ok will remove clips and leave the inlets where they are.
I've marked crank position as well as cam sprockets and chain position on them. So will try to put back as it is positioned now. Then once it's all moving freely will double check the factory marks line up.
Never had a 4cyl bike engine in this many pieces so sorry for the stupid questions :) many thanks for the help.
Its not stupid to ask advice-its sometimes stupid not to! :eek Good luck & let us know how you get on
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Thanks all, head off. Not pretty but could have been worse? Anyone have an inlet valve kicking about? I seem to have bent one. Or a number for Deefer please?
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd479/craiginuk/temporary_zps5393906e.jpg)
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Thanks all, head off. Not pretty but could have been worse? Anyone have an inlet valve kicking about? I seem to have bent one. Or a number for Deefer please?
Deefer's number is 07887 854 614. ;)
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Thanks, that's the number i had too but it says incorrect number when i dial for some reason.
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Thanks, that's the number i had too but it says incorrect number when i dial for some reason.
I get that too, but it's definitely his number. He switches his phone off after work, might have something to do with that. If all else fails, send him a PM. :)
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Would inlet valves from a 2001 model fit a 1999 model?
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AFAIK the valve size hasn't changed between years so they should fit ok. Haynes gives all relevant specs/clearances.
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There's a parts manual for the 1999 model here http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=13 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=13)
You can get the part number for the intake valve and do a search for it. You might get one cheap if you're lucky
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You can check all Yamaha parts for all years on the yamaha uk site here, http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/services/online-parts-catalogue/index.aspx (http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/services/online-parts-catalogue/index.aspx)#
That'll let you know if the valves are common between years
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Thanks, looks like they are the same! Found some on ebay so hope to assemble in next week or so.
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Finally got head back together and on. Lapped all the valves too while i had it off. But i'm having problems with the timing chain. When i tried to install tensioner it is tight even before i install spring. Did not want to force anything so slowly turned over on crank via magneto bolt. The engine bottom end turns over but cams aren't moving.
If i stick my finger against the guide where the tensioner should sit, i can feel the chain or something moving i.e can feel something scraping. Is it possible the chain has come off the sprocket at the bottom?
Any ideas before i set fire to it?
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Could of done, either that or the chain has doubled up somewhere.take the tensioner out and "jiggle" the chain to free it, dont force anything ;).....dont worry about the chain moving on the bottom sprocket its the marks that are important,they have to be spot on, good luck :)
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Thanks for all the help guys. Time to throw in the towel. It's jumped off the sprocket at the bottom and i don't have the time to sort it now. It'll be on ebay as a spares or repair as soon as I've re assembled it all back together. A shame because it is an otherwise mint bike.
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That seems a bit drastic. Did you try to get it back on?
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Yep tried but can't get it on. I have spent way too much time on this now. Need the space in garage for car and have a lot of work travel coming up. I guess it is drastic but i just want rid of it now.
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Is it off the sprocket and bound up or is it off the sprocket and free? Could it be on the sprocket but kinked?
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It's off the sprocket and free. Just feels like it is turning on crank journal or smooth shaft.
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Hasn't happened to me but I'd try hooking it back on with a wire coat hanger with a slight bend in it. It's worth another few hours trying surely! MacGyver it back on! :lol
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Haha, yep just running out of steam. Plan was to clean carbs and sell it as i have not been using it. That turned into head off etc. will see but tempted to just sell as non runner or take to local garage to let them have a look.
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have one more go matey....you`ve come a long way,would be a shame to stop now when your so close to finishing..the reward of pressing the starter and it bursts into life is well worth all the hassle :) ..600`s are selling well at the moment,easily fetch £1000....non running project maybe £300 ........
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Cheers, will have another go. :) If heads not going to have to come off again at least i can get some more of the parts out of the way and back on the bike. Exhaust etc. Have posted another question pointing to this thread in case anyone else has tried and got it right.
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As Red said: I paid 250 for mine, and the engine just needed work! Mods aside, I've spent under £400 on a stock bike. A running 6 is worth way more than that!
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yep she's at my friendly mechanic's for an hour or so to see if they can re fit chain and sort timing next week. Hopefully get her running and sell as a nice bike for someone.
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She lives! Turned out to be a bit (lot) more than an hour, but they got chain back on, did valve clearances, refitted carbs, tank etc, oil, filter and coolant change, balanced carbs and put through MOT. I'll fetch her on Friday and will probably not want to sell:)