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General => General => Topic started by: midden on 04 April 2014, 04:56:14 pm
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Stop hijacking dig deep thread ;)
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Stop hijacking our oil :eek
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Fine- pay us back for RBS and see if you can live off the oli
Scotland get a vote as to whether or not to leave.
Why cant we have a vote as to whether or not we want them to stay.
You go then Scotland and perhaps then we can stop pissing around with our clocks and get some extra light in the evening winter instead of changing them for you. (yep that all ive got !!)
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Fine- pay us back for RBS and see if you can live off the oli
RBS is a London registered bank.
You go then Scotland and perhaps then we can stop pissing around with our clocks and get some extra light in the evening winter instead of changing them for you.
I think if you held a referendum in putting the clocks back come autumn in Scotland it would be a resounding NO. So yeah I'd like that extra evening light too!
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I'm sure the Scots will be very happy under Mr. Salmond and friends (yeah, right :rolleyes ). You really think your own MPs will be any better than those at Westminster?
So you want to negotiate new terms as an independant nation with Europe? Except that Europe doesn't sound very enthusiastic about it.
Why does Mr. Salmond think that everyone will give an independant Scotland everything on a plate? He seems to be working from assumptions that Scotland will get everything they want, their way. But everything will need negotiating, and never mind oil (a fast depleting resource anyway - that which is left will cost more and more to extract; Britain as it stands is deperate to find energy solutions to the future, not relying on North Sea oil reserves, hence the current, somewhat heated debate over fracking, and Europe's generally increasing reliance on Russian oil and gas).
My gut feeling is that both England AND Scotland will be worse off if split. But, like everyone else, I have no concrete evidence to base this on.
I also wonder if they'll really vote for independance. The independance lobby is very vocal, but is there a silent majority who have no such wish, when push comes to shove?
All food for thought...
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I hope Scotland remains part of the UK , but that's for the Scots to decide , but the worrying thing is the Scots could be pushed into voting yes due to the bullying , lecturing tactics of the no campaign .
I also would like a referendum on Europe , let the people decide .
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Most scots I've spoken to seem to think an independent Scotland would be suicidal. And it's just chest beating bravado from the politicians.
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Do you have to be Scottish and registered as living in Scotland to vote?
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love the irony-lets get independance from the UK and then end up being a bitch to the foccing EU :rollin
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Forget the oil
It's buckfast tonic wine that gives Scotland strength!!! :b
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I'm sure the Scots will be very happy under Mr. Salmond and friends (yeah, right ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ). You really think your own MPs will be any better than those at Westminster?
It's not an election, it's a referendum as to whether the people of Scotland want to continue as part of the UK or not. It's not about Alex Salmond.
Your second point - YES! Doh. We will at least get the government that we vote for, rather than the current situation where-by another country decides what government we will have. There ain't no Tories in Scotland you know.
So you want to negotiate new terms as an independant nation with Europe? Except that Europe doesn't sound very enthusiastic about it.
The popular media, who love nothing better than bashing the SNP (whilst seemingly ignoring that the SNP have already achieved the impossible) keep quoting the EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso "extremely difficult, if not impossible" (for Scotland to join the EU) despite the fact that he has little real credibility on this issue. He's really talking about Catalonia and the Basque region. Time and time again this man's lack of credibility on the issue is pointed out to the mainstream media yet they continue to quote the man and to his obvious delight. Ask other senior officials in the EU the same question and you will not get the same response.
Why does Mr. Salmond think that everyone will give an independant Scotland everything on a plate?
I don't think that he, or anybody else up here thinks that will be the case. Yes obviously there will be negotiation. And yes, as Mark Carney of The Bank of England pointed out there would have to be some sovereign consessions from Scotland in order for their to be a currency union, which he made clear would indeed be potentially workable.
and never mind oil
Yes that oil that Scotland was told would run out by the year 2000. The oil that was squandered on social security payments so that Thatcher could destroy the miners and the Unions of the working classes. The secret documents released a couple of years ago confirm that Scotland was lied to. Other documents talked of talking Scotland's oil being taken by force should she leave the UK, whilst yet more documents make it clear that the reason that Scotland was conned out of devolution in 1979, despite Scotland voting YES in that referendum, well it was oil.
Anyway there's at least 40 years worth of production left out there. Scotland today is sitting on more oil than Kuwait.
My gut feeling is that both England AND Scotland will be worse off if split. But, like everyone else, I have no concrete evidence to base this on.
The UK is going down the pan, being sold off by the toffs that run the country. The NHS in England is being privatised. Our utilities, essential and social services are now mostly owned by private foreign companies and even more bizarrely foreign state owned companies. Any profits are sucked out of the UK. And gradually only the middle classes and the poor will pay tax. It's focced.
Independence for Scotland, if Scotland makes a go of it as I believe we will, has gotta be good for England too. Perhaps finally doon sooth folks might start to realise that they too have been robbed and conned.
I also wonder if they'll really vote for independance. The independance lobby is very vocal, but is there a silent majority who have no such wish, when push comes to shove?
A silent majority. That silent majority that has almost the full might of the whole UK popular media behind it. The roar screaming NO! is deafening.
But Scotland has already achieved the impossible. Devolution was supposed to stitch the Scots up once and for all. The Scottish Parliament was designed such that no one party could ever hold a majority. What that really meant is that the SNP could never hold a majority and as such there would never ever again be the threat of a referendum on Independence in Scotland.
In 2011 the SNP achieved a majority in the Scottish parliament and called for a referendum on Scottish independence. The polls had predicted a Labour victory.
Will it happen? I don't know. Do people like change - no. But do people like not getting what they vote for - no. But I do know the impossible is now possible.
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Most scots I've spoken to seem to think an independent Scotland would be suicidal. And it's just chest beating bravado from the politicians.
im one of those! I think its just Alex "Jabba" Salmond trying to get his name in the history books, and dont think either side will gain anything from it. Rightly or wrongly, we have worked fine as one kingdom for centuries, and I dont see what good breaking that will do really.
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Do you have to be Scottish and registered as living in Scotland to vote?
If you are a British citizen living in Scotland and on the electoral role in Scotland you will get a vote.
I know a lot of English people up here who are voting YES.
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we have worked fine as one kingdom for centuries
Seventeen years of Tory rule that we didn't vote for, and yet again we have a government in Westminster that we did not vote for.
At the moment mickVP we have a Tory lite government. The Lid Dems will get wiped out at the next general election and with Labour not sure what they are or what they stand for any more, the Tories will make mince meat of em in the run up to the next election. Then you'll see what the bastard Tories are really all about.
Vote NO if you want a Tory government ruling over our country in 2015. Vote NO if you wanna be focced. We will be roundly punished for daring to hold this referendum.
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Yeah so the scottish living in London don't get a say then, unless of course they fraudulently still live with mummy ;)
You do bring up good points, NHS, Utilities etc but it shows a weakness to split when the going gets tough, very French (like the utility companies)
Not sure how scotland making a go of it can be good for the Uk (won't say England as Wales and N Ireland aren't to be forgot)
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That there Salmond just wants to be the King of Scotland.
Would we still keep the blue bit in our flag-------------- I like it with the blue bit
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Yeah so the scottish living in London don't get a say then
If they live in London and are on the electoral roll in London then they will not get a say in this referendum.
That there Salmond just wants to be the King of Scotland.
My money is on Wee Eck giving this his all, everything he's got, and if there is a YES vote him announcing his retirement from politics after the completion of the Indy negotiations, that should be 2016.
If it's a NO vote, I think he faces steering the SNP through another term before retiring.
I don't think he's a man who wants to be in front line politics forever.
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That there Salmond just wants to be the King of Scotland.
Would we still keep the blue bit in our flag-------------- I like it with the blue bit
Bet Fish face has a Mel Gibson poster above his bed ;) [size=78%] [/size]
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we have worked fine as one kingdom for centuries
Seventeen years of Tory rule that we didn't vote for, and yet again we have a government in Westminster that we did not vote for.
At the moment mickVP we have a Tory lite government. The Lid Dems will get wiped out at the next general election and with Labour not sure what they are or what they stand for any more, the Tories will make mince meat of em in the run up to the next election. Then you'll see what the bastard Tories are really all about.
Vote NO if you want a Tory government ruling over our country in 2015. Vote NO if you wanna be focced. We will be roundly punished for daring to hold this referendum.
your beginning to sound like a politician yourself a bit there :lol
There are just too many unknowns for me to even take a chance on it, a lot of unanswered questions I dont know the answer to that for me, means I would never gamble by taking a yes vote. Ive not seen one clear paper released that is just facts and figures without it wandering into the normal political propoganda rubbish. answer to questions like:
what happens to the oil? does Scotland get it, or does it fall into the "UK's" hands?
what about currency, do we definately need our own currency if we become independant (I think I did read that was a yes though)? if so, will we be getting a comparable exchange rate, will our money in the bank be automatically exchanged? what about inflation? wont this massively disrupt the Scottish economy and affect import/export prices?
What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?
What about military bases/tanks/submarines/ships/resources? will these be becoming Scottish, or still belong to "uk"?
What about troops? where will the Scottish defense troops come from? will they be "bought out" of their contracts for the British army and drafted in? at what cost?
What about renewable energy? there are a lot of substantial renewable wind and wave energy projects ongoing at the moment (with UK government funding), will these still be ongoing? who will take ownership? Scotland, or UK (they have stumped up a load of the money for these too mind)?
Thats just off the top of my head, and I genuinely dont know the answers to any. I dont want to hear Jabba's opinion on what will be happening, I want solid facts, of which I have seen little.
There just seems to be a load of issues which havent even begun to be sorted out, and the vote is fast approaching?
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As much as iI would love a change in the way we're governed I cant see any winners if Scotland goes its own way.it would be a very interesting social experiment though.
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Mickvp,
What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.
It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period. What's the point?
Much of what you are refering to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government. Remember that will be a government that we will have elected, and that will be answerable to us.
Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change. My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro. We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.
Take a chance on it? There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.
What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?
Now there's a thing :evil . Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union? Probably not- eh?
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If memory serves when tony blairs own back benchers voted against raising university fees the scottish mps were bribed into voting for him. It would be nice to have english mps voting on English issues.
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So what about the blue bit in the flag then
Edit---- will we keep it if they go
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The blue bit is for chelsea.
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If memory serves when tony blairs own back benchers voted against raising university fees the scottish mps were bribed into voting for him. It would be nice to have english mps voting on English issues.
I was wondering how long it would take to bring up the West Lothian question! :lol
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Ah---------- yes the west lothian question
But will we still keep the blue bit in the flag
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Me and my wife got married in Gretna green ( i am a lesbo(new wench from last night) lover)
We have a tin of Tartan shortbread at Christmas.
And i saw Andy Murray on the telly playing tennis.
Does this mean i am Scottish ?
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VNA, you ARE Alex Salmond, and I claim my £5! :lol
You seem to know more about what will happen than anyone else. Which is kind of par for the course, as the only ones who are certain they are right are the independance lobby. Oh, wait a minute, they include all the brightest economists and politicians in the world, right? I would suggest that no one really knows what the outcome of Scottish independance would be - what, for instance, will be the debt situation for Scotland after? For as many of one opinion on any aspect you can find, you will find as many opposite/contrary opinions. Why should anyone trust what YOU say on the subject? Are you not doing exactly the same as Salmond, just brow beating everyone into your way of thinking? You are exactly the kind of person who clouds the debate with rhetoric.
I don't claim to know an awful lot about the outcomes. But this is because we don't get informed by reasoned debate from qualified people. That's what this issue really needs before a single vote is taken in a referendum - or do you look down your nose on all those who aren't well informed (i.e. the majority) and say well, let me decide for you cos I know it all?
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I was wondering how long it would take to bring up the West Lothian question!
The blue bit is for chelsea.
I was wondering how long it would take to bring up the West London question!
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Mickvp,
What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.
It's almost worth the split just to see how much a government elected in Scotland by the Scottish for the Scottish would actually follows the wishes of the Scottish commoner once elected in
It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period. What's the point?
Much of what you are refering to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government. Remember that will be a government that we will have elected,
'Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted' springs to mind
and that will be answerable to us.
not the large Corporates supportng the economy then
Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change.
could be damaged if the service sector decides to move out
My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro. We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.
If you kept the pound without a currency union it would be your own created currency 'the Scottish pound, or poond) and since staying in Europe is so important surely Scotland should be wanting EU currency union.
Take a chance on it? There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.
Hmmm
What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?
Now there's a thing :evil . Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union? Probably not- eh?
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- or do you look down your nose on all those who aren't well informed (i.e. the majority) and say well, let me decide for you cos I know it all?
Enter George Orwell
All animals are equal except some are more equal than others ;)
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Mickvp,
What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.
It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period. What's the point?
Much of what you are refering to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government. Remember that will be a government that we will have elected, and that will be answerable to us.
Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change. My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro. We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.
Take a chance on it? There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.
What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?
Now there's a thing :evil . Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union? Probably not- eh?
Mickvp,
What you will get is the chance to vote for a government, elected in Scotland, by the Scottish people, to take the decisions in Scotland that effect us here in Scotland.
It does not current matter one jot what we vote up here in Scotland, England elects the government - period. What's the point?
Much of what you are refering to will be negotiated over or will be decided upon by the first Scottish government. Remember that will be a government that we will have elected, and that will be answerable to us.
Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change. My money is on a currency union, it's the most likely outcome, but you know what, who cares, we can use the pound without a currency union or adopt the Euro. We could create our own currency but we run the risk a soaring Scottish pound, which wouldn't be a good thing in the long term.
Take a chance on it? There is nothing too loose! It's continue on the road to ruin or actually take a turn and follow a route of our own choosing, that will absolutely certainly not be in the direction we are headed today.
What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?
Now there's a thing :evil . Anybody wanna bet against me on a currency union? Probably not- eh?
Up until I read this thread VNA I thought you were serious, now I realise you are taking the piss, (Scotland has one of the strongest economies on the world, not a lot will change) A statement like more oil than Kuwait? thing is the population of kuwait is only 3.2 million Kuwait has a proven oil reserve of 104 BILLION Barrels(produces 7% of the worlds oil production. Salmonds estimation is 20, 25 30 BILLION barrels, great he is only guessing.
Try spending a Scottish £10.00 down in England (no fecker wants it, best way to off load it is top up with petrol and then go in and pay with it. More often than not they will say not taking that mate, Ah!! all I have got, mate so unless you want to suck the petrol out of my tank, take the Hooters £10 note.
One thing I think the English should insist on is IF SCOTLAND VOTE FOR INDEPENDANCE that fecking wall should go back up, the one the Roman fella built and all OAT MEAL SAVAGES living in what remains of the UNITED KINGDOM should be deported.
If the vote is to maintain Scotland within the UK, Salmond and his Cronies should bet tried for treason
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Don't think Hadrian to small and besides it cost too much relocating it.
Better think Game of thrones wall. That'll keep the beasties oot and our tax dodging (allegedly) bricklayers in work for some years. even be enough for our Polish brothers ;)
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what, for instance, will be the debt situation for Scotland after?
Well that's another reason why there will be a currency union. If there is no currency union, then Scotland is free to walk away from UK debt. Under a currency union we will have to shoulder our fair share of the debt.
Why should anyone trust what YOU say on the subject?
It's not a matter of trusting poor old VNA! But what is clear is that Scotland would if Independent elect a government of it's own choice, not have England choose a government for us.
Let me put it this way. Scotland has 5 million people. England has 50 million people. England clearly drives in a different political direction from Scotland. In crude terms you could say England is right wing, and Scotland is left wing. But Scotland is dragged along in the right wing neo con direction against it's will because we are 5 million votes against 50 million.
The Scottish Parliament has acted as a buffer, diluting the worst of the English neo con madness. But it's only a buffer, we are still left swimming against the tide, and that tide is dragging out further out.
Also I like small government, government that is readily accessible and accountable. Westminster is big, remote and aloof.
Are you not doing exactly the same as Salmond, just brow beating everyone into your way of thinking?
The SNP has virtually no media support, it's attacked on all sides relentlessly, but despite this it has achieved what is supposed to be absolutely impossible - this referendum. It's utterly ridiculous and unfounded this accusation that somehow Wee Eck is a big bully brow beating people into submission. It's laughable.
I don't claim to know an awful lot about the outcomes. But this is because we don't get informed by reasoned debate from qualified people. That's what this issue really needs before a single vote is taken in a referendum - or do you look down your nose on all those who aren't well informed (i.e. the majority) and say well, let me decide for you cos I know it all?
I think at the end of the day everybody in Scotland should be making their own mind up Nick. I'm a political animal, though I'm not out actively campaigning on this issue, but if you ask me my opinion, I'll offer it to you.
There's a lot of information out there, this is an important issue. And I think in the next few months people will get more and more interested in this debate. I'd also expect a big turn out on this one, it's potentially a once in a life time vote and the biggest thing this wee country will ever get to vote on.
Me and my wife got married in Gretna green ( i am a lesbo(new wench from last night) lover)
We have a tin of Tartan shortbread at Christmas.
And i saw Andy Murray on the telly playing tennis.
Does this mean i am Scottish ?
slimwilly, if you live in Scotland, and you are on the Scottish electoral roll, then you are in effect Scottish, even if you are English ;)
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One thing I think the English should insist on is IF SCOTLAND VOTE FOR INDEPENDANCE that fecking wall should go back up, the one the Roman fella built and all OAT MEAL SAVAGES living in what remains of the UNITED KINGDOM should be deported.
Oh no, no, no. You'd need to move it sooth a bit. We want Yorkshire. I like Yorkshire, a lot of us do. And it used to be ours. We want it back.
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One thing I think the English should insist on is IF SCOTLAND VOTE FOR INDEPENDANCE that fecking wall should go back up, the one the Roman fella built and all OAT MEAL SAVAGES living in what remains of the UNITED KINGDOM should be deported.
Oh no, no, no. You'd need to move it sooth a bit. We want Yorkshire. I like Yorkshire, a lot of us do. And it used to be ours. We want it back.
Oh shit, our sovreign's children have all died and he's fallen off a cliff - let's invite the English king in to govern us - make up yer feckin minds! :lol
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what, for instance, will be the debt situation for Scotland after?
Well that's another reason why there will be a currency union. If there is no currency union, then Scotland is free to walk away from UK debt. Under a currency union we will have to shoulder our fair share of the debt.
Surely as with all divorces the proportion of debt will be offset when sharing out the gold. Thus the more debt we can show Scotland responsible for (say like the cost for constructing and maintaining that parliament building) the less gold share they'll get :)
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Surely as with all divorces the proportion of debt will be offset when sharing out the gold. Thus the more debt we can show Scotland responsible for (say like the cost for constructing and maintaining that parliament building) the less gold share they'll get ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])
Aye but remember, nae currency union, nae debt sharing.
That's the problem 'better together have', they keep getting found out, their silly childish threats are nothing but bluff and blunder (does that sound enougth like Wee Eck fae ye Nick?).
That bloody building was foisted upon us by England, no doubt to try and make the Scottish Parliament look ridiculous, and gave us our first controversy. Of course it was portrayed as the first act of the Scottish Parliament itself, which of course was another popular media myth.
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Pointless thread is pointless.
I'm not going to learn anything here, just a load of mudslinging :rolleyes
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There's an interesting parallel here. Crimea is a region within the state of Ukraine. Crimea recently had a referendum on whether it wanted to remain part of the Ukraine or become part of Russia. The result was, allegedly, that a resounding majority wanted to become part of Russia. Now the EU, NATO, UN and various other acronyms have all stated that the referendum is illegal as it would have needed to be a referendum over all of the independent state of Ukraine and not just the region of Crimea.
Following that logic, surely the vote for Scottish independence should be open to everyone that is likely to be affected, the entire UK?
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Except Scotland isn't a region of England...it is a country in its own right...
Think of what was the USSR rather than just Russia and you are closer.
Other regions of England are simply that and while they are suffering a similar neglect due to the concentration of population and business around London, their situation is quite different.
Although I think Doncaster is officially Scottish... ;)
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/doncaster--is-part-of-scotland--after-900-year-old-administrative-error-comes-to-light.html#05olkzh (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/doncaster--is-part-of-scotland--after-900-year-old-administrative-error-comes-to-light.html#05olkzh)
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There's an interesting parallel here. Crimea is a region within the state of Ukraine. Crimea recently had a referendum on whether it wanted to remain part of the Ukraine or become part of Russia. The result was, allegedly, that a resounding majority wanted to become part of Russia. Now the EU, NATO, UN and various other acronyms have all stated that the referendum is illegal as it would have needed to be a referendum over all of the independent state of Ukraine and not just the region of Crimea.
There is no parallel. The Crimean referendum followed an uprising within Crimea (obviously there were other major events in Ukraine that preceded this) along with invading Russian militias and armed forces. It was held at two days notice and many communities within Crimea refused to take part. In short, over the period of a few days Russia annexed Crimea. You could call it a referendum at gun point.
And all that may have been part of the price that the west has to pay for ignoring Russia on the international stage, and considering it to a spent force. Putin has a number of reasons for taking this action, one of them is sending a message to the west. The spent force has made the west look impotent.
Scotland as Hiswitsend points out is not a region of England, it's a country and is currently part of a union called the United Kingdom. We have a devolved parliament and a democratic process. In the SNP manifesto before the last Scottish election was a pledge to hold a referendum on full Independence. The SNP achieved the impossible - a majority in a coalition parliament. Hence we now have a referendum.
Of course we do not have the right to hold a binding referendum on Independence. Westminster initially refused to recognise any such referendum. But it was clear that Scotland was going to hold a consultative referendum anyway. So Westminster - umm hang on a minute........;
Remember that name - Jose Manuel Barroso? You know.......
Jose Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission, said it would be “very difficult, if not impossible” for Scotland to get the agreement of all EU states to join the bloc.
That name that your English press and the BBC love to keep quoting and referring to his statements on Scotland joining the EU (seemingly forgetting that we are already EU members), well he is refusing Catalonia the very type of referendum that we are holding in Scotland. Get it? But the popular press keep quoting him despite his lack of credibility on the issue and crystal clear agenda. And of course they think that Scots won't notice this.
If there is a YES vote, it will be down to the failure of the 'Better Together' campaign. It is theirs to loose, and bit by bit they appear to be loosing it. eg. Not having the balls to be honest about the EU and the pound. Yet again Scotland is being lied to.
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Angela Merkel has also hinted that perhaps Germany doesn't think that Scottish independance is a great idea, saying that Europe wishes for a strong UK within Europe, to aid with Europe's bargaining/negotiating powers with the US and other leading world economies. It seems to me that both Scotland and the UK as it then would be, would be weaker for this move. Other than that, Europe seems strangely quiet on the subject.
I dunno, maybe it would be better for the Scots. But they are not the only ones disillusioned with the direction our Westminster rabble are taking us, or how they behave generally. Maybe I should declare for independance - I'll take a quick referendum - yes, it's unanimous, Nick Crisp has voted to be independant and run his own affairs! :D
One would hope that if Scotland does go independant, the emotionally charged extremists would be sidelined and more sensible heads would agree to work closely with the UK on various matters.
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Angela Merkel has also hinted that perhaps Germany doesn't think that Scottish independance is a great idea, saying that Europe wishes for a strong UK within Europe, to aid with Europe's bargaining/negotiating powers with the US and other leading world economies.
Obviously she's gonna say something moderately supportive of the UK, that at the same time is not going upset Scotland. Politics.
One would hope that if Scotland does go independant, the emotionally charged extremists would be sidelined and more sensible heads would agree to work closely with the UK on various matters.
Indeed , come a yes vote the extremists at Westminster are going to have to have a rethink. The bullying lies and intimidation having failed, well they will have to grasp the reality of the situation and start becoming more practicable and reasonable. Well one would hope so - but will they?
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The independance lobby has plenty of it's own extremists, and well you know that I meant to include those in that statement. But yes, lets hope for more level heads on both sides. This constant slagging of Westminster, or of The Scottish parliament, or whoever, won't help matters at the end of the day. Why not just concentrate on the practicalities of the thing? If the Scottish majority really wish for this, then they'll probably get it. Better to focus on how to make it work than just keep stirring up bad feeling (although obviously that's part of the independance movement's way of persuading the Scots to vote yes :rolleyes ).
One question does stay in my mind though - is there not any way that Scotland could work for greater independance within the UK, perhaps some way of keeping the more powerful position we'd all have with the UK as a union, but allowing Scotland to run itself as the people wish? I know you will say (VNA) no cos Westminster will constantly meddle etc, but maybe it could work with a bit more thinking outside the box? Obviously, it would mean for both sides to drop many preconceptions and be prepared for quite large scale change nevertheless, but.....? Is there any precedent of such a thing working? Or could a workable precedent be set?
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The sad bit is unless this ends with a yes vote and independence is won the extremists will not stop screaming for another referendum. It really won't matter that the majority have spoken.
Yet if the result is yes to independence the No voters will be told to shut up and put up the majority have spoken.
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what, for instance, will be the debt situation for Scotland after?
Well that's another reason why there will be a currency union. If there is no currency union, then Scotland is free to walk away from UK debt. Under a currency union we will have to shoulder our fair share of the debt.
Yes, Alex Salmond declared that Scotland would walk away from their portion of UK debt if they were denied the UK pound, but since the UK Treasury had previously announced that the debt would be underwritten in the case of independence his threat is empty. It would also be counterproductive.
Superficially, it looks like a great deal for an independent Scotland, but it isn't. Scotland would still be liable for servicing the portion of debt… starting out with zero credit history is bad enough, refusing to pay interest on the existing debt would instantly make Scotland a defaulting nation so would push up borrowing rates a lot further.
In the event of a "yes" vote (once all the political grandstanding is over and the two sides have to deal with reality) the most likely outcome would be to allow Scotland to continued use of the GB pound in exchange for ceding some control over taxation and spending.
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The independance lobby has plenty of it's own extremists
Who? And what of their extremism. Seriously you'll have to spell it out to me, as I have not got a clue what you are on about.
This constant slagging of Westminster
It's pointing out the facts behind the lies, intimidation and bullying. Better together, up to this point is doing all the hard graft for the YES campaign.
You know it wasn't that many years that Westminster put doon the wee upitty nationalist minority by telling us Scots that our country was an economic basket case, we were subsidy junkies and our precious oil was about run oot in a few years!
That argument is over. Nobody today doon sooth would dare tae suggest that an independent Scotland is not viable.
One question does stay in my mind though - is there not any way that Scotland could work for greater independance within the UK, perhaps some way of keeping the more powerful position we'd all have with the UK as a union, but allowing Scotland to run itself as the people wish?
Well that's what Better Together has promised us. But they won't tell us what that means. There's no substance. It's pig in a poke politics.
That might be fine. But England is right wing, it's obsessed with the free market, with privatisation. It's imperialistic too, it wants to spend our oil money on nuclear weapons and illegal immoral wars.
Others may have a differing stance, but I want independence.
The sad bit is unless this ends with a yes vote and independence is won the extremists will not stop screaming for another referendum. It really won't matter that the majority have spoken.
Or is that it, if you want independence, you are an extremist!
Sure, it took two shots to get our parliament. It might take two shots to get our independence...........
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The independance lobby has plenty of it's own extremists
Sure, it took two shots to get our parliament. It might take two shots to get our independence...........
Isn't that bully boy tactics? We will keep taking shots until everyone agrees to vote our way?
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In the event of a "yes" vote (once all the political grandstanding is over and the two sides have to deal with reality) the most likely outcome would be to allow Scotland to continued use of the GB pound in exchange for ceding some control over taxation and spending.
Yes indeed, something along those lines.
So what does Better Together do? The Tories, Labour and The Lid Dems issue a joint statement saying that Scotland will not be allowed to join the remainder of the UK in a currency union. Period. Full Stop. Zip. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN, IT CANNOT HAPPEN, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.
The SNP say it's Bluff and Blunder. The whole UK media jumps on the SNP and slags em off. A serious kicking is dished out. Serious set back for Independence Campaign and all that.
All this crap about the Euro and currency Union dangers gets branded aboot. Despite Mark Carney having made clear it wouldn't be a problem, yes it would work.
Does the whole of Westminster fall asleep every time Mark Carney speaks?
Then one by one, the economic experts come out and say, well this is all very strange they say, it would be detrimental to the remainder of the UK post a YES vote to deny Scotland the pound. And that's before anybody considered the military angle (nae poond, well take yer subs away tomorrow if you don't mind)
And as it starts crumble, one anonymous Tory MP decides enougth is enougth and pulls the plug. He leaks to the press that it is indeed bluff and blunder - it's a lie.
Good old Better Together! Gotta love em!
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Not that the "no" camp has a monopoly on bluff and bluster… witness Mr Salmond's optimistic estimates of the real value of the remaining oil reserves.
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I don't really like getting into poilitical debates....& as a Welsh domicile jock i dont really have much say in all this.......would i like to see scotland get independence......yes.....but possibly that's easy for me to say as living & working in Wales it wont impact me as much as the rest of my family.
I'm pretty easy going....many of my best mates are English...i've lived in Scotland, England & Wales as an adult......what i will say is that Westminster has only done damage to Englands image & reputation.......keeping it simple in my simple mind i think that most Scottish people would be happy to be a part of the UK if England got rid of Westminister.......centralise British politics.....have the base in Mid to North of England......have a ruling party that represents the average person.
& the more that Westminster or other foreign government officials tell Scotland that independence is a bad idea......then naturally it must be a good idea.....just not for them......& you dont have to clever to realise that fact....politicians are the worst type of people to listen to.
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The Proclaimers - Cap In Hand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcWSpPkf78s#)
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And that's before anybody considered the military angle (nae poond, well take yer subs away tomorrow if you don't mind)
Cloud cuckoo land :rolleyes
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Can England take Aberdeen though??...please....too many shitting in chimneys goes on in Aberdeen! :b
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Shit I almost pissed myself there.
Good thing I've got a stove at the end of ma chimney!
NED? Non Educated Delinquent.
Nice one Noggythenog.
Here's wan who wants to take ma photae, but wi ma camera!
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3272/2835315919_b534734e95.jpg)
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Hey, VNA's gone all Scottish in his spelling - this must mean he's serious :lol
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Aye,
Hud a tug o war wi the wee NED abuin, but ance he ken't he wisnae gettin it, ah got this;
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3074/2835315925_53f27a532f.jpg)
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I will be sad to sad to see the end of the union. :'(
Always thought of myself as British rather than English a lot of the North of England does I suspect
Lived in Scotland for 4 years on and off while serving in RAF and visit often
think something tangible will be lost forever in a yes vote but it is a matter for Scotland alone
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Aye,
Hud a tug o war wi the wee NED abuin, but ance he ken't he wisnae gettin it, ah got this;
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3074/2835315925_53f27a532f.jpg)
5 very good reasons there why im hoping for a yes vote!! :evil