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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Timbollew on 04 March 2014, 12:30:37 pm
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So I'm riding in too work this morning and my speedo is basically bouncing all around the place. Seems to be reacting to my revs more than my speed, shooting up to 140mph (I wish) then back down just all over the place. After the engine warmed up it seemed to get a little better but still not right. I'm guessing that I've probably got a dodgy connection somewhere, anybody else had this happen?
Going to whip the tank off this weekend and check the connections until then I'll just freestyle it.
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either the drive dog has broken up in the speedo drive or the wire has been caught by the front disc and damaged, my money would be on the drive dog.
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What's a drive dog?
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(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/12/driving-dogs.jpg)
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inside your speedo drive is a ceramic collar with two magnets on it, this is a drive dog. They break up and then you get really weird speedo readings. Pull the front wheel off and have a look
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The original part was apparently very brittle and the lugs break off easily when you take the wheel off. There is a newer part, pictured below, that you will probably need. There is a bodge to it if you still have all the bits you can just superglue them back together. Mine is currently bodged and I have this part ready for when it breaks again.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2836/12931260905_b522cccf47_z.jpg)
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That, is a drive dog!
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Funny, I'd assume it was the wire worn through and grounding against the fork leg or similar!
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If you read my original post that was my 2nd guess :D
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I'm gonna have a look today. I've replaced the drive dog before with the newer part, there is a funny noise coming from the front wheel though so we shall see.
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Funny noise from the front wheel is a classic symptom of your drive dog....barking . No it is honest.
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Mine went crazy for a couple of days and then back to normal and has been for months now.
There was a post about a month ago from someone who had the same symptoms as you describe. Can't find the post though.
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Mine had the same symptoms when I routed the cable the wrong side of the brake caliper. The cable got close enough to the disc to get hit by the head of each disc bolt... once that had worn through the insulation the speedo reading went all over the place.
I bunged a bit of heatshrink sleeving over the damaged bit, routed it up the outside of the caliper and it's been OK since.
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http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=8649.0
Is this the one? I hope I've added the link and not made a foc of it.....;)
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No, just found it: http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,11710.msg127441.html#msg127441 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,11710.msg127441.html#msg127441)
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I've still not had a chance to take a look at it, but there's been a development. This morning on the way to work same thing speedo jumping around crazy. I switched of my headlight and the speedo returned to normal, I then stopped at some lights and thought lets try some other stuff, If I have the brake light on all ok but brake light on and indicator on it bounces up and down in sync with the flash.
Surely this means it's not the drive dog? Gonna have to have some investigative work this weekend, but I hate electronics :'(
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Grounded wire, see above!
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So I've had a look tonight. I'm 90% sure it's not the drive dog as I'm having problems just on idle without the wheel moving.
Checked the wire from speed sensor, it's not grounded no breaks or anything looks perfect. Checked all the connections in the little box under the tank and all seem fine. Disconnected them and reconnected to make sure all was ok.
I've got a feeling it's going to be my speed sensor. Anyone have any thoughts? From what I've seen these are fairly expensive. Anyone here breaking an fzs with a working speed sensor :)
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Anybody have a speedo sensor for sale? I'm pretty sure this is my faulty part. As I found something on another forum that sounded like my problem that was resolved with a new speedo sensor.
If you've got one or know of one please let me know, dealer price is around £130!
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I had to replace mine a few years ago and ended up finding someone breaking a 600 and getting them to send me the unit. Ended up costing £25 inc p&p - I'd recommend this route as buying new is insanely expensive as you have found out
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I had to replace mine a few years ago and ended up finding someone breaking a 600 and getting them to send me the unit. Ended up costing £25 inc p&p - I'd recommend this route as buying new is insanely expensive as you have found out
Yeah I've been in touch with a few breakers but still not had any luck finding one. When you had to change yours DeadEye were your symptoms similar to mine? Anyone have any recommendations of breakers?
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Nah, mine was just completely dead and wouldn't read anything - I just got the 3k tacho needle error code. The lugs were fine and the new unit fixed the fault
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The speedo sensor....I take as the bit that fits over the drive dog......if yes I have one for sale :D
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Hey red, yeah the part that goes from the wheel to underneath the tank. Is what I'm looking for. You'd be a life saver. If it is that part you've got let me know and I'll pm you.
Tom.
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there you go.....this belongs to christoT pm him for a price and a bit for me for postage unless you can collect in person
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That's the badger. I'll message him now. Where do u live red? I'm in South Wales.
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small rub on wire.through to metal but not broken.should still work.
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This is what insulation or self-amalgamating tap were designed for ^^
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Yes indeed mr dead......just dont want to hide any nasties when selling to a fellow foccer :)......anyway.its a fab day why you not out on the mighty thou ?
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Just giving piece of mind ^^
I was just out on the thou, had just finished breakfast before I posted that message haha
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So I just got the part from Red and Christo (cheers both) and I'm gonna stick it on and see if this resolves my problem. Quick question for you guys though, what would you use to lubricate the drive dog and sensor? I was going to pack a little multi-purpose geese in there, what do you think?
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So I just got the part from Red and Christo (cheers both) and I'm gonna stick it on and see if this resolves my problem. Quick question for you guys though, what would you use to lubricate the drive dog and sensor? I was going to pack a little multi-purpose geese in there, what do you think?
I hope Lithium grease is ok coz that's what i stuck on...i didnt pack it though...the dog needs to spin, i just went lightly over it with my finger & inside the rim & over the gasket type part on the face.
I also smeared it around the wheel bearings & over the centre pin for the wheel.
& i used copper slip on all the high heat areas on the caliper bolts & brake hose bolts.
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It's alive! Fitted the part and all working, just used multi purpose in the end.
Wasn't as easy as it should've been though. Checked the sensor and was working fine, because of the little rub through on the "new" sensor wire I opted to cut the wire at the top heat shrink where it had rubbed and then resolder at the top. This was all a piece of cake.
Greased everything and pushing the axle through and it just wouldn't go in, checked and the axle wouldn't fit through the sensor which is odd but hey ho. So I ended up using the dremel to sand the inside collar of the sensor just enough to get the axle through. Just took it for a test and all is good :) my plan was to change the oil and filter today too but that'll have to wait until tomorrow now.
When I had a look at the old sensor the only thing I could see was down the bottom where the wire attached to the sensor the wire insulation had pulled up and away exposing the wires (not bare wires) and I guess moisture got in there and focced it up. It started with the speedo giving odd readings, reacting to other electrics like indicators and then just died. Just thought I'd recap incase anyone has a similar problem.
Thanks again to all you guys on here helpin me source a part and advice along the way :D
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glad you got it sorted ;) ....strange about the axle ............
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Hia lads.
Screendumped the yam part for the numbers. Pagetts fitted my new front tyre about a fortnight ago. When he pulled the wheel out, bits of dog fell out all over the floor ! (Wasn't his fault - it has been squeeling like a pig for a while) Could only rescue a single tang, and he superglued it back on, and warned me these things are an arm and a leg to buy!(I assume he's talking about the whole unit - of which the rest of mine is fine)so my questions are - how much is it for just that bit? where to buy without getting my pants pulled down over the price, and is it easy enough to swap out for the old one?Circlip? push fit? wifes Y fronts elastic? what?
I didn't want to touch mine whilst his superglue was holding - until halfway home tonight. Speedo flicked a couple of times, and dropped dead. I reckon the previously superglued (Single) tang finally gave up the ghost.
MOT on the 21 st (sods law!) so need to act fast - cos he does check it on the rolling road thing......
Regards - Gazbo
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Hia lads.
Screendumped the yam part for the numbers. Pagetts fitted my new front tyre about a fortnight ago. When he pulled the wheel out, bits of dog fell out all over the floor ! (Wasn't his fault - it has been squeeling like a pig for a while) Could only rescue a single tang, and he superglued it back on, and warned me these things are an arm and a leg to buy!(I assume he's talking about the whole unit - of which the rest of mine is fine)so my questions are - how much is it for just that bit? where to buy without getting my pants pulled down over the price, and is it easy enough to swap out for the old one?Circlip? push fit? wifes Y fronts elastic? what?
I didn't want to touch mine whilst his superglue was holding - until halfway home tonight. Speedo flicked a couple of times, and dropped dead. I reckon the previously superglued (Single) tang finally gave up the ghost.
MOT on the 21 st (sods law!) so need to act fast - cos he does check it on the rolling road thing......
Regards - Gazbo
Hey gazbo, i see you are new so you prob havent quite got to grips with navigating the site yet, welcome......it is attack of the speedo sensors at the mo...like last year when everyone kept crashing their 600's :evil .....
Anyway someone else asked this morning & i gave them the earlier link.
Just click on this link to another thread on the topic
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12498.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,12498.0.html)
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The drive is £16ish from Main dealer. The sensor and drive is about £130. From what you've said it's only the drive you need and there a pice of pee to fit. Calipers off, pinch bolts loose, axle out, grease, fit drive and reverse. :D
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Cheers Lads. Bought the dog.Just waiting for it landing now.
Maybe here tonight.
Q. So how is it held into the unit then? Circlip maybe?
I only ask cos I'm really limited for time, and am using the bike for work, so it's going to be an sas job (Quick out-quick in) Can't afford to be off t' road at all.
MOT due on 18th, so will want to do the swap before then (Yes he does check it on the rolling road when he tests me anchors- which are also up for some pre MOT bleeding - incidentally)
I didn't get a good look at the knackered dog when they were doing me nu tyre, so was just unsure how to strip the old dog out of it's housing- thats all.
(I'm an engineer, so am ok with competency etc. Got all the tackle,Just haven't attacked this particular job before, and don't wanna screw the pooch (Dog) if ya follows....)
PS. I do know about getting it back into the wheel right ! That's a given. It wasnt me wot dun it wrong lasdt time, as I'd never had the wheel out.
One bonus came out of all this though.....I thought the squeeking sound was me wheel bearings. It was obviously the loose dog's lugs rubbing round inside the unit.
Padgetts Superglue job had given me about a weeks running though, but I wasn't counting on it. Rightly so - apparently.
Thanks again for the help. Nice to know you're there lads.
Gazbo
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Probably take you about 15 mins mate. It's simple, nothing holds it place, when you see the sensor it'll make sense, but on the near side of the front wheel the dog will slide into the sensor unit collar first with the lugs facing out (put a little grease on it) then line the lugs up with the wheel, a well placed foot to hold the front wheel in place while you slide the axle through and tighten up. Simples.
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:rolleyes O wow ! embarrassing that. Must be my engineering background - fully expecting all moving parts to be "Physically retained" ! (Although now I've eyeballed it - well yes - where was it going to go anyway ? :rollin
Anyway - Got home this teatime. Biggest pizza box I've seen since I waz propper greedy, with the little Dog hiding in the corner. Looks totally different to the original, with it's nice Dalek - like slots around it.(T'other was just smooth - bore). You were right. Propper "lump of urine " to do. I bet I was 5 mins to pitstop it out & new one in. Took longer to get the Arse end strapped down ! Now nicely GP greased, tangs correctly located (After a bit of a faff about). Back up and running. I even tightened my downpipes to stop the "engine is trying to destroy itself " sound, caused by a wayward gasket in No. 3 port, flapping in the draught('Speshly on tick over). Amazing how the downpipes amplify this fluttering noise. My mechanic mate diagnosed " soon to give birth to con-rod "! So that's done too -nice and quiet again. And all before er-indoors shouted " Oy - fatso - Tea's ready.
Paid a bit extra.
F.Y.I. AJ Suttons (via fleabay) had it for 25 spondooliks, and DPD delivery. so I bit the bullet, rather than muck about. Sorted ! Thanks again all. :D I'll be back.
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So I have this problem also, had my front tyre changed today and now speedo is not working at all. Do. Need to be looking for just the tab washer (drive dog) or is it a complete unit inc the cable and everything?
New to bikes so any help is appreciated !
Danny
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Apologies didn't realise there where two pages to the forum. Question now answered, would be helpful though if anyone who has bought the washer could post a website I could purchase one. Thanks again everyone
Danny