old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Yamazer-92 on 25 January 2014, 08:40:05 pm
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This is one for all of the bored masochists out there. Last weekend I got my old down pipes off nice and easy. They have been blowing for some time so I bit the bullet and got some stainless motads but when they arrived for some reason I just wasn't really that impressed. So I set about refurbing my originals and have left the stainless in my room for now. I took the original pipes to a local garage to get the worst bit welded up which he has done a really good job of and it didn't cost much at all. I then today set about the task of prepping the down pipes for painting:
- First I washed them off thoroughly using a pressure washer. Not normally advised but fine as they weren't on the bike, was powerful enough to take a small amount of the paint off.
- Sprayed on some muc-off degreaser and let it set for a few minutes, then brushed it in with a stiff brush.
- Rinsed off the residue with the pressure washer and left to dry.
- Used 80 grit aluminium oxide paper that I got from Halfords and cut it into 8 A5 strips, then sanded like a furious ape for about 2-3 hours.
- Halfway through I flipped the pipes over and degreased and pressure washed them again.
- More sanding
- I then went over the worst bits with a wire brush drill attachment, this created a few more holes but I will take the pipes back down to the garage to be re welded in those areas. At least I exposed them now so that they can be reinforced before putting them on the bike as weak as they were and having them become holes in no time.
All in all it was quite an effort and took a fair few hours of hard work to complete but I feel like it was definitely worth it. I will put up some photos when they are completed after they have been welded and I've finished painting them.
Here is the aluminium oxide paper I used. It comes in 4 A4 sheets which I cut in half. I ended up using it all and just about had enough.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&productId=175468&catalogId=10151 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&productId=175468&catalogId=10151)
Here are some pics, they look better in the flesh and you can't really see how smooth they are now but it is a huge improvement on what they were like before believe me.
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Also for anyone interested here are the original downpipes and Motads right next to each other, they are definitely not identical in several places. Plus something I am very much looking forward to when it is finally all back together on the bike!
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So what was wrong with the Motad ones??
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So what was wrong with the Motad ones??
Oh fuk look out you've awakened the detail kraken!!!, :evil :evil :evil
Chuck Norris PM's Doddsie for tips on how to detail his Fazer :lol
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I shall rise above it!! ;)
Just seemed strange to buy new ones and `not use them cos you wernt impressed`, then set about getting someone to weld up and repaint the old ones???
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Well all im saying is that ive read well enough the stuff..that the originals are the best etc etc.
I've replaced mine with Cristos stainless set & all i can say is there's really not much difference except they look much better & sound a bit beefier & they are both good things.
Fair play for trying to keep the originals going but it is really just delaying the inevitable.
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I have Motads too. I think the main issue with them is the lack of back pressure in comparison to the oem set. You can see how much narrower the oem pipe is where the 4 pipes collect. I know a couple of people on here have sleeved them down - Paul reported on this in detail. I was just wondering about doing the same soon.
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,4821.msg41195.html#msg41195 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,4821.msg41195.html#msg41195)
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Can't really pin it down to one answer to be honest, I guess I rushed into buying them and when they arrived I just thought in all honesty I don't really need these. I did a lot of research before buying them, went through loads of info and reviews on the old and new forum about what people thought of aftermarket stainless pipes and which to buy. Sorry if this offends anyone but the general consensus I found was that the motads were the best, however there were people who were having issues with fitment or just poor running in comparison to the original pipes. Skilled mechanics were also commenting that dyno readings showed the original pipes offered the best running, especially in the mid range, as they are after all designed by Yamaha for the bike. Obviously the fact they corrode very easily isn't ideal but hopefully this time my preparation and painting will be good enough to keep the rust away for a decent amount of time.
I asked a load of questions to motad who gave me great customer service. When they arrived I compared them side by side with my original pipes. They were not the exact same, especially where the 4 pipes join to 2 then one and go to the outlet pipe which was one of the main questions I asked and was reassured it was all the same as the original. I was quite put off by that, also the fact they weren't as good a finish as I was hoping made me decide to change my mind about scrapping my old pipes which leaves me where I am today. If the remaining holes can be welded which I'm very sure they can be, I am definitely putting my originals back on. Yes it was a ball ache preparing and cleaning them and no doubt painting them will be hassle too but if the bike keeps all of its mid range power then its worth it because revving the tits off of it everywhere isn't my riding style. If I can sell them and get back the £150 I spent I can put that towards braided lines and renthals.
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My dad mentioned "delaying the inevitable" and he was a bit surprised at my decision too, but I think I've justified my reasons for doing it. I am painting them myself as well so all I'm getting the mechanic to do is the welding. I've been quoted £30-40 and he's only done the one area so far, I didn't get a picture but its the black area where the strengthening plate is just before the outlet pipe it was completely riddled with holes so he removed it and re welded in new plating. The rest are just a few small holes and I want him to reinforce all of the double skinned pipes meet the single skinned rear section.
I read about sleeving down the stainless pipes but I really couldn't tell what it involved or how I would go about it? Refurbing the originals I've done before I just rushed it and didn't do enough so I'm having to do it all over again annoyingly but this time its a much more thorough job.
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Well said Yamazer.
Even if you said it in awkward to read font :b
As you say whatever works best for you & thats the bonus of the foc-u that we can all read & make our own choices.
But [size=78%]back to my personal opinion or theory or whatever..[/size]
[size=78%]Does this extra mid range on the originals actually equate to much whatsoever in real life, i dont think it does.[/size]
[size=78%]If you aren't gunning it anyway then you can instantly gain more mid range by twisting the throttle further.[/size]
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I think it's pretty straight forward, a matter of inserting a smaller diameter pipe into that area of the downpipes. By all means the Motads are not bad - I went to PDQ last week and when I said I had Motads Nick there went "good", so I reckon they're some of the better of the ss pipes. FYI, my bike did a smidge under 80bhp and a smidge under 41 lb/ft. Full Motad system and K&N filter, 46k miles on the clock. Not super impressive but that was before fettling and is about right for a bike of it's age/mileage. Having said all that, the FZS600 which made the most power 86.?bhp was completely standard according to his records but was a Foxeye with much less miles.
Anyway, I haven't really looked at my own pipes recently but what Paul describes in the above link makes sense to me. I think I'll give it a go this year and see if it makes a difference.
Why dont you fit the Motads to see if you notice a change in performance from your oem set?
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I shall rise above it!! ;)
Just seemed strange to buy new ones and `not use them cos you wernt impressed`, then set about getting someone to weld up and repaint the old ones???
makes sense to me. not strange at all :)
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There's no need to have any concerns that the motads are different from oem where the pipes join at the collector box, its all the other dimensions that matter when coming to fitting!
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I think it's pretty straight forward, a matter of inserting a smaller diameter pipe into that area of the downpipes. By all means the Motads are not bad - I went to PDQ last week and when I said I had Motads Nick there went "good", so I reckon they're some of the better of the ss pipes. FYI, my bike did a smidge under 80bhp and a smidge under 41 lb/ft. Full Motad system and K&N filter, 46k miles on the clock. Not super impressive but that was before fettling and is about right for a bike of it's age/mileage. Having said all that, the FZS600 which made the most power 86.?bhp was completely standard according to his records but was a Foxeye with much less miles.
Anyway, I haven't really looked at my own pipes recently but what Paul describes in the above link makes sense to me. I think I'll give it a go this year and see if it makes a difference.
Why dont you fit the Motads to see if you notice a change in performance from your oem set?
Nick makes it all look a bit too easy when he strips a bike down, but i like the way he sits next to you on the settee in the waiting area with engine parts on his lap showing you what was wrong or what he's gonna do next! :)
Here's my dyno graph before i had the K&N put in, and although i have replacement shiny downpipes even Nick couldn't tell me what brand they were so i simply don't know?
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What's going on at 7k rpm there? Get a post k&n run done and see how it compares
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I have had it done again since but forgot to ask for a print-out. :rolleyes
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Soz to go off piste slightly but has anyone tried Delkivic downpipes ?
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I've fitted a set of Delkevic downpipes, not really noticed any difference in performance, but had to take a hefty file to the centre stand as it fouled the collecter area when used. That is with original silencer fitted.
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I have had it done again since but forgot to ask for a print-out. :rolleyes
I was comparing your dyno results with mine earlier and noticed that dip @ 7K on yours. Mine is down on power in comparison but the curves seem a little smoother. Air/fuel trace was alright too - I was expecting worse tbh but in the end all it needed was a carb balance and a small pilot mixture adjustment.
Despite what I said earlier, having looked at my dyno sheet more closely, I think I probably won't bother with the sleeving down business after all. It looks healthy enough. The mid-range, which is supposed to suffer with aftermarket ss pipes, looks ok. My Motads/Venoms have balance pipes - Darssi, do yours? If not, maybe that would explain your 7k dip.
I'll do another dyno session someday, if the power figures drop further I might start thinking of ways to get it a bit higher.
PS. Interesting - my bike has approx 5hp more than yours @ 7k, and yours has approx 5hp more @ peak. There is definitely more power from your engine after 10k, before that they seem quite similar apart from the dip. All academic of course, conditions incl changes in dyno software can effect results but still interesting! :)
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Two things to consider, firstly i think i had what i would class as a moody Hi-Flo air filter in back then which i don't believe worked the way it should.
It was quite new too but it never felt right so i bought the K&N soon after.
Secondly i had my SP Engineering stubby can on as well, and i was never 100% with the way the bike ran with it on, which is why i prefer the Quill can as a better all rounder.
I've also had a replacement TPS and i balanced the carbs myself since then so i would imagine a reading now would be a bit better?
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If you ever do another dyno run share it with us! BTW I'm pretty sure Nick had your dyno sheets on his pc, I reckon he'd email you the one you're missing if you asked him.
Carb balance after the run on the dyno made a big difference in the engine's smoothness, mine had gone quite a bit out over the course of a year or so.
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Yeah, there were only 2 or 3 Fazers on his computer that had been Dyno'd.
I s'pose i could ask him to send me it by email, that's a good idea. :)
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Fuzzy I would be interested in putting the motads on and going for a ride, but then they would no longer be new and unused so I couldn't either return them or sell them as new condition. I would be interested in doing a dyno run when everything is done, how much does it cost and if adjustments are required what does that involve? Do they have all the parts with them or do you need to supply them? I think the nearest to me is a 200 mile round trip either way, Bristol or Cornwall, but may be interested in the future.
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Fuzzy I would be interested in putting the motads on and going for a ride, but then they would no longer be new and unused so I couldn't either return them or sell them as new condition. I would be interested in doing a dyno run when everything is done, how much does it cost and if adjustments are required what does that involve? Do they have all the parts with them or do you need to supply them? I think the nearest to me is a 200 mile round trip either way, Bristol or Cornwall, but may be interested in the future.
I'd be interested in a dyno run in the summer, Bristol you say eh, that's only a few hours away.
Foccer dyno group meet :woot
Find out once and for all what colour is the fastest! :D
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Fuzzy I would be interested in putting the motads on and going for a ride, but then they would no longer be new and unused so I couldn't either return them or sell them as new condition. I would be interested in doing a dyno run when everything is done, how much does it cost and if adjustments are required what does that involve? Do they have all the parts with them or do you need to supply them? I think the nearest to me is a 200 mile round trip either way, Bristol or Cornwall, but may be interested in the future.
I was charged an hours' worth at £60 which included the dyno + carb balance + minor adjustments. Worst case scenario is taking the carbs off and 3hrs work @ £180. Was told that Dynojet kits are rarely needed and the feedback on the forum suggests the same. A dyno run on it's own would probs only be £30 or something? Sure it must depend where you go though.
Take your point about the motads, return them before it's too late!
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For anyone thinking of doing this, take my advice. Don't. Ever. Let me be an example, I took the gamble and it has failed miserably. Guy who welded this exhaust is a numpty and I could tell he was taking no care or time over it whatsoever, probably thought it was a pointless task and treated it as such. I have wasted at least £40 on this and countless hours time sanding, painting and prepping. The bike has not yet even been out in the rain, after 3 or 4 medium length dry rides (okay there was some standing water road spray in a few places) this exhaust is pissing out from every available orifice. My Fazer is really not in my good books at the moment, in fact it's pissing me off. Back on the phone to motad tomorrow to beg their forgiveness and tell them what an utter goon I've been.
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Oh well, it was definitely worth a try though. Let us know how you get on with the Motads. Are you/ have you fitted the Mivv end can?
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Yeah I mean it would have been great if they lasted even a year or 2, but I'm really disappointed that its been barely a month. Most disappointing is the sheer scale of leaking exhaust, its not just a small bit that I may have lived with. It's all over the pipe, even in places that weren't leaking before. I can only imagine that fitting them to the bike and nailing it up to 12k has put some strain on the weakened areas that I sanded, wire drill polished and jet washed and they probably blew. Should have just listened to the experienced foccers rather than trying to provide a possible alternative. Starting to add up a bit this bike...
Yeah fitted the Mivv, it looks great and sounds lovely. It sounded great with the baffle in first 2 rides, then got a bit quiter to my ears which im guessing is because the downpipes started to leak badly. So I took the baffle out and it sounds very nice and isnt too loud but I suspect it could be with the motad pipes so I'll probably end up putting it back in.
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Yamaha should have fitted ss pipes form the factory really. Show us a piccy when it's all done!
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Once those collector boxes have corroded to the point of developing holes its only going to be downhill from then on. However, a set of Motads should give you another 10 years of service- its very difficult to successfully weld corroding steel. If you can pick them up from Motad in Walsall I think mine cost 149 notes without postage. BE VERY CAREFUL tightening up exhaust header nuts-but you knew that already based on past posts where some of us have overdone them to our pain & cost. At least you've developed your polishing skills!
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Haha, every cloud and all that! :) Last time they charged me £152 all in including postage so I'll ask for that again and point them to where I was quoted that figure.
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Bad news about the pipes being shagged after the welding. Everything else is interesting though!
I'm about to fit a custom tailpipe and K&N, and then get the bike set up on a dyno - she's definitely down on mid range atm and occasionally has a hesitation higher up the revs. Worse MPG than my previous one too. I'll be doing a long trip across Europe later in the summer, so seemed a good idea. I'll get a dyno sheet and post results in a few weeks.
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Once those collector boxes have corroded to the point of developing holes its only going to be downhill from then on. However, a set of Motads should give you another 10 years of service- its very difficult to successfully weld corroding steel. If you can pick them up from Motad in Walsall I think mine cost 149 notes without postage. BE VERY CAREFUL tightening up exhaust header nuts-but you knew that already based on past posts where some of us have overdone them to our pain & cost. At least you've developed your polishing skills!
What have I missed re the exhaust bolts and tightening?
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Once those collector boxes have corroded to the point of developing holes its only going to be downhill from then on. However, a set of Motads should give you another 10 years of service- its very difficult to successfully weld corroding steel. If you can pick them up from Motad in Walsall I think mine cost 149 notes without postage. BE VERY CAREFUL tightening up exhaust header nuts-but you knew that already based on past posts where some of us have overdone them to our pain & cost. At least you've developed your polishing skills!
What have I missed re the exhaust bolts and tightening?
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Not saying you have missed anything but its very easy to overtighten them with resultant "o F*** it" moment when a stud snaps(usually an awkward to reach one on no 2 or 3 cylinder! :eek
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Ah, right, cool, thanks. Just put exhaust back on and was wondering if too right meant more liable to seize on.
Thanks for the update :-)
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Use a dab of copper grease on the stud threads & better still fit domed head stainless nuts to keep the crap out & stop them corroding on!
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Yup, think I'll see about the domed ones, cheers :-)