old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: Hedgetrimmer on 11 January 2014, 07:25:44 pm
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There have been many rumours of what my step-grandfather did during the last war. He was born a Scot, and worked on the estate of some laird or other before WW2 broke out. His military service is little known by anyone it seems however. Stories of him fighting in the Pacific theatre, and a story about him "accidentally" parachuting (?) alone onto some Japanese-held island, which he then is supposed to have single-handedly "captured". All rumour, and no doubt the reality is somewhat less spectacular. However, it's certainly true that my grandmother threatened to kill him herself when, after the war, he sold all his medals!
So I wondered if anyone else on FOC-U had stories from their elders of the war, and if they ever talked about these things, as so many did not apparently. It is sad to note that there are, of course, fewer and fewer survivors from this terrible conflict around today - what a relief that many chose to tell their tales for books and TV before passing away. Perhaps you even know of your ancestor's exploits in conflicts pre dating WW2?
And on the subject, does anyone know where you would begin if you wished to try to uncover archives that might shed a little more light on what such relatives did? Alas, I don't even know what regiment my step-grandfather served in. All I have is his name, which is a fairly common name and so could easily be confused with others. And I would also like to find out more about other relatives, now passed away, who may or may not have had military roots. My extended family is now small and widespread, and have little knowledge of these things it seems.
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Are there any Old photos of him, or any old papers which might have his regimental number/unit on them? That's by far the easiest way of finding out more about him.
Your going to have to do a lot of searching with just a name and d.o.b. difficult, but not impossible.
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D.O.B.? Er, yes, well..... You see, this could be tricky. :lol
When he was admitted to a care home after my grandmother died, my mother found some photos in the loft of their old house, and there were some photos of him in his army uniform. Unfortunately, a somewhat, shall we say, eccentric aunt is thought to have got hold of them, and they've never been seen since.
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Nick your Grand pappy sounds like James Bond, I hope the rumours are true.
I have been having Spanish speaking lessons for a couple of years up to 2 years ago, my personal tutor was 85 years old ,still alive now, he was a gunner in a bomber,stationed at Silverstone air base for one. when we went off topic sometimes , the stories were riveting, those men were heroes, flying over Germany , in the spotlights,shrapnel bombs going off all around them,he said once they got back home and they counted over 80 holes in their plane :eek
He is an amazing bloke,, I could listen to him for ages,,sadly these heroes are disappearing,, I wish he would let me record his stories.
My mate who I go shooting with and drink with was in the sas, the stories he comes out with, well sometimes funny but still,they are brave men.i wish I was with him when they entered Saddams stash of gold and US dollars,,yes dollars, millions of them,,do you know what,,,they burnt them :eek .yep burnt them.
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Nick you can search on Genes reunited for free but to view records you have to subscribe think you can get one month for £20 or pay to view but this could be expensive if a common name as you may have to go through dozens before you find the right person, thats if you do.
theres a chat forum on there where you can get help from others on the site.
I've traced my family back to 1600, but I have a uncommon surname. You can search birth, marriage, death records at "freebmd" for free but not scottish records, the site is from 1837 to 1950s . Also try familysearch this covers parish records and world records.
I spent hundreds of hours doing my family tree, good luck.
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My great uncles were quite distinguished! My grandfather (paternal) missed the 2nd world war completely as he was off in the Sudan on colonial duties! However, two of his brothers fought in the 1st world war - and he narrowly escaped himself - long story, but it involves an incompetent doctor. Leonard died in the Somme, whilst Geoffrey survived, and got an MC, a DSO, and was mentionned twice in dispatches!
He got the DSO when he came across one of his men, unconcious, drowning in a pool of mud. Geoffrey lay down, and supported the man's head above the mud for 40hrs, shells and bullets flying overhead, until a medical team could come and save them both. The man survived.
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my grand father was a bookies runner, banned from all mines because he beat up one of the owners, funny how they all stick together.
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My 2 sons aked what their Great Grandad did during the war. They both laughed when told that he was a Sergeant in charge of several packs of Donkeys in Burma. A few weeks later while watching World at War they were talking about the war in the jungle and showed skinny men up to their waist's in mud trying to persuade packs of Donkeys to carry huge loads of munitions and food through the Burmese jungle. Lawrence Olivier then told us that without the Donkeys the Allied troops would have lost their foot hold in the Asian peninsula to the Japanese. The pride on those 2 young faces wss a joy to see, I just wish their Great Grandad was around to talk to us about it.
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My great granddad (paternal) fought in both WW1 and WW2 though I don't know of any stories and my granddad (paternal) was in the British Navy for WW2 - again, unfortunately I don't know much more than that. My great uncle (paternal - can we see a pattern?) was in the SAS but I'm pretty sure he missed WW2 (too young)
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I feel an even more direct connection with the war as it was my Dad, my parents had me late in life they were in there 40s and so I am now still under 50, my dad would never talk about it but sometimes spoke about practical jokes he would play on his mates and how he would swap his ciggy ration for chocolate as he never smoked.
He and my Mum met befor the war and my mum worked in an ammunitions factory
He joined at 19 narrowly missed going to both Burma and Africa (which he was relieved about ) as we look back we now know those places were bad but they also knew it then.
He did go to France Belgum and Germany
As a kid I remember he would always watch WW2 documentaries and how I would hate them boring, but what I would give now to sit down and watch them with him. He was never interested in collecting his service medals as he saw no point, he died after seeing all his children grow up and have their own children and when he died we applied for his medals and they now sit in a frame in my house.
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Very nice story Fazersharp,,proud boy :)
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And on the subject, does anyone know where you would begin if you wished to try to uncover archives that might shed a little more light on what such relatives did? Alas, I don't even know what regiment my step-grandfather served in. All I have is his name, which is a fairly common name and so could easily be confused with others. And I would also like to find out more about other relatives, now passed away, who may or may not have had military roots. My extended family is now small and widespread, and have little knowledge of these things it seems.
Its relatively straightforward process but it can be long winded if like in your case information is missing you have to be a detective.
You have three main choices in the ways to research: -
1. On line site's which you have to pay for.
2. The National Archive (old public records office) which is free.
3. Pay a researcher.
The best combination is a mix of 1 & 2 but that all depends where you live due to travel to Kew, how deep you want to go, how much time you have and how much you want to spend, option three can workout the cheapest sometimes if you don’t have the time and or live too far away form London.
Be aware that most personal WW2 records are still withheld and you can't see them on line or even at Kew unlike WW1 which have now been all released, those that survived WW2 Blitz that is! Once you know his Regt, No etc can prove who you are, you can get a summary of his record e.g. where, when etc from the army records office but it is just a summary often just half a page. If you really get the bug and armed with the summary you can look into regimental history and with a lot of detective work place him in certain time frames match him to actions/battles, if he did anything of note bravery etc he will be named in war diaries which are available at Kew these are the real documents that were penned by his officer and you are touching history.
The amount of information that is available is mind blowing and at first you just can't take it all in but if you preserver you will find out most if not all of what you want to know. Good luck mate lets us know how you get on.
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Doesn't look promising at the moment. If I can locate some of the photos, maybe there'll be a clue, regimental/unit badge or something. But I don't think this is going to happen soon.
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Interesting thread.
My grandfathers are at opposite ends of the scale. As a kid my maternal grandad used to amaze my cousins and I with his war stories, how he served in Russia, Burma, Africa, France and Germany. The two I remember are about the helicopter (are you smelling a rat yet?) he flew chasing Hitler's rear guard to Berlin, and the time he killed a Japanese Captain in Burma, then stole his sword and killed the rest of the squad, with the bodies piling up on the sword 'like a big Jap kebab.' Turned out he was really a mechanic and never left the air base (I think he was based on the Isle of Man). He did meet my grandmother there though, probably the only thing he didn't bullshit about from the war.
My paternal grandad on the other hand, refused to say a word about his service until about 5 years ago, when he told his story to his two sons. They made notes, but he asked them not to tell anyone what he was going to say until after his death. I don't know what he did, but he died in Sept 2012 and my dad & uncle have kept the notes locked away, saying it was more to get things off his chest and that no-one should ever have to read things like that. I get the impression he did some morally questionable things during D-Day and the following period.
What I do know though, as I found out at his & my nan's funeral, is that he was born & raised in Castle Bromwich near the Spitfire factory (now Jaguar) which is where he met my grandmother, while sheltering under a bus during an air raid. He was home on leave and she was working at the factory as a quality inspector, ironically my job today at the same factory. They met and married in 1940, and after the war they never spent a night apart until my nan's death on the 15th September 1012 and his 6 days later, both aged 97.
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I get the impression he did some morally questionable things during D-Day and the following period
Not many prisoners were taken as they had no where to put them or spare men to guard them at D-day, at the time they were trained to do one thing and they did it. Its only as time goes by and with the wisdom of age that gives time for deeper thought and reflection.
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My Fatherinlaw Norman - Royal artillery ww2 - took part in battle of El Alamein , stationed on the rock , one of his highlights was a trip in a flying fortress .
My maternal grandfather Eugene born in Alabama , stationed in Tavistock England , medical orderly in US army WW2 . his brother Delmer stationed in Liverpool WW2- then took part in Normandy landings , battle of bulge , liberated 2 concentration camps , witnessed German guards being killed by ex prisoners ( they had orders not to intervene ) , died 2 years ago buried with full military honors . his other brother Jay was US army engineers WW2 and another brother Rufus also WW2 , all 4 brothers survived the war .
My Paternal Greatgrandfather Sam - joined Army in 1906 at 17 six months after his father was killed in industrial accident on new years day . I got his Army pension records online - after his training he was sent to India for 2 years , then Arabia after that where he claimed he met Lawrence of Arabia. He served 6 years then left married his cousin Maud , had my Grandfather , was recalled for WW1 sent to France with British Expeditionary force , took part in battle of Somme , where he was injured by shrapnel but survived .
My Maternal Great Great grandfather Charles - Royal navy , marriage cert says he was a gunner , by the time my Great grandmother was born he was a Chief Petty officer .
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They're still making spitfires? Cool!
My maternal grandfather was a pharmacist with boots in Nottingham, and was a protected profession, so his war was pretty safe.
My paternal grandfather, worked on the railways, again protected. His wife drove for the army, but don't know any more than that, other than she died when my dad was very young, whether her death was war related I'm not sure.
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It wasn't always safe staying at home though, was it? My mother told me that she remembered being strafed by a German aircraft near Plymouth. Now, she was not one to make things up. She also remembered the Yanks handing out oranges and candy to the local kids.
Not family, but a guy I worked with not long ago was part of the Suez operations in the 50s. He used to jibe me that my Germany stint in the late 80s was a home posting. So I used to wind him up in turn, saying, yeah, but at least we kept the Soviet hordes at bay, and he ought to be sent back to recover the Suez Canal, as he failed in his job :lol
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My mum remembered the V1 rockets flying over (doodlebugs) she said that it was fine as long as you could hear the engine put-putting because when it stopped -- thats when it came down
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Dad joined the Queen Victoria Rifles KRRC Motor Cycle Battalion on 4th April 1939 aged 22.They went to France on 22nd May 1940 & held Calais against the advancing German panzers. They held out until 4pm on Friday 24th May when the French commandant surrendered. (Their action helped while the BEF troops were being pulled off the beaches of nearby Dunquerque )He with his surviving comrades were marched across Europe to upper Silesia. He was POW until liberated by advancing allied troops at the end of the war. He was one of the "lucky" ones cutting timber in the forests. Most of those sent down the coal mines died.
His twin sister worked on the telephone exchange at the Admiralty throughout the blitz-enough to fray anyones nerves!
When I was a small boy living in Kent there were young German bomber aircrew ( about 22 yrs old) buried in our village churchyard. The Battle of Britain was raging over the skies of Kent & Sussex in 1940. Its hard to imagine the courage of those who went up time & time again in our defence, as well as the 110.000 men of bomber command, 55,000 of them died.
I miss my Dad who died 19 yrs ago-always remember him advising me not to buy a motorcycle-that clinched it for me & have been riding since 1965! :lol
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I get the impression he did some morally questionable things during D-Day and the following period
Not many prisoners were taken as they had no where to put them or spare men to guard them at D-day, at the time they were trained to do one thing and they did it. Its only as time goes by and with the wisdom of age that gives time for deeper thought and reflection.
True. No-one can pass any sort of judgement until they've been in that situation, but I think it haunted him afterwards. Both what he did and what he saw.
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no storys to re tell other than he was injured almost died and when they tried to send him home he refused went back to war only to be injured a second time fatally
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/Detail/168215 (http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/Detail/168215)
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I did something similar for my grandad who was in the Navy during WW2. If you know his name and DOB you can get his war records from the MOD. From there you can claim copies of his medals ( my dad buried my grandad ones when he was a kid) and see what they really did during the war.
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My grandad was in Korea I think and there was a popular family story about him ending the suffering of more than 300 people when he shot the cook
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My grandad was in Korea I think and there was a popular family story about him ending the suffering of more than 300 people when he shot the cook
:rollin
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My Great Grand Father got killed in the battle of Arras, no doubt along with 10,000's of others. Needless bloody slaughter.
I visited the grave a few years back, I'm guessing the first from my family to do so. Though I've no idea, as thanks to the Great War I've distant family in Canada of whom I know nothing of.
Can believe all this talk recently of celebrating The Great War.
I was quite taken with some of the things that Harry Patch said,
War is organised murder and nothing else....politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder. Harry Patch.
Sharp till the day he died I think.
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My grandad was in Korea I think and there was a popular family story about him ending the suffering of more than 300 people when he shot the cook
:rollin
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I am reminded of that ring of red around the m25 --- that was never going to work and if it did it would never be seen from a helicopter high enough to get it all in.
Now if the same was done at a Race track with organised ride ins from all over like the Brackly air ambulance I think that would be a great success and being the great war anniversary this year also I think would work.
And then the picture from the helicopter could be sold to all of those taking part
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my mum was german and had to join the hitler youth! after the war her dad burnt the uniform and armbands etc.
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my mum was german and had to join the hitler youth! after the war her dad burnt the uniform and armbands etc.
wow that one is different. A story from the other side as well.
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Now if the same was done at a Race track with organised ride ins from all over like the Brackly air ambulance I think that would be a great success and being the great war anniversary this year also I think would work.
I hate all that poppy pish.
It's getting ridiculous now, to the extent that people are told, no ordered to wear a poppy.
Over my dead body will I wear Lady Bloody Haig's poppy.
Not for me.
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Well it takes all sorts
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I'm with VNA on this. A horrible part of our history. I can't believe they are issuing a £2 coin with Kitchener's poster that led so many to their death.
Nothing to celebrate. Lions led by donkeys.
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Over my dead body will I wear Lady Bloody Haig's poppy.
Not for me.
While I agree with no one should be made to wear a poppy your referenece to "Lady Haig" is not quite right, it had nothing to do with her what so ever see below taken off the Poppy Factory web site
The origins of the Remembrance poppy lie with two women:
Moina Bell Michael, an American teacher, was so moved by Colonel John McRae’s poem “In Flanders Field” that she bought poppies with money collected from her colleagues and sold them to raise funds for U.S ex-Servicemen.
Madame Guerin, a Frenchwoman, took up the idea and in 1921 made and sold millions of poppies throughout the US to raise funds for the rehabilitation of areas in France devastated by the First World War. She persuaded Earl Haig to adopt the poppy for the British Legion and sent French women to London to sell them.
In 1922 Earl Haig accepted Major Howson's offer to supply poppies. The rest as they say, is history-
Personally I wear my Poppy with pride like you my family paid the ultimate price so far I've identified 11 of my family who were killed during WW1 spread across France and Belgium two on the first day of the Somme. I was shocked when I got into the research just how many of my family were evolved and this is very, very common it is said "every" family lost someone. An example a very good friend has an extremely rare name in the UK their family originate from Guernsey and there are only 35 registered with their name living in the country "today". They accompanied me to Passchendaele while I was researching my family as you probably know that is the site of one of the worst WW1 battles and is now the location for Britain's largest military cemetery "Tyne Cote".
As you can guess while there they looked up their own name and sure enough the name was there! On returning I helped them research the person and sure enough it was their great grandfather they had no idea as no one ever spoke about him.................and that is the whole point!
For me it's not about the war it's about the millions who died in it, for most with no more than a name on a block of stone. As time passes and records become available we can now see the truth behind most of what happened which time and time again has proved not to be what popular history was telling us. Many aspects of it weren't even known e.g. the underground war fought in tunnels, the utter disgrace of shooting shattered men/boys or children as young as 12 who were not returned to their parents after lying about their age to join, the list goes on and on.
To me the above is why it's important not to forget, these people deserve their story being told. That said I do think there is a ever growing commercial element taking over which must be controlled to ensure the money goes to Royal British Legion to help ex service man and woman then I'm all for it!
Bring on the Ring of Red :)
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My Grandfather was in the 36th division (Ulster) battle of the Somme seldom did he ever speak about it. My Dad was North Atlantic Convoys, merchant navy, sunk once but again seldom talked about it.
Me 45 years Merchant Navy, Iran Iraq war hit by rockets strait of Hermouz, 3 dead onboard, trust me I was no hero absolutely terrified 50,000 ton tanker carrying petroleum products, diffo squeaky bum time.
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My Grandfather was in the 36th division (Ulster) battle of the Somme seldom did he ever speak about it. My Dad was North Atlantic Convoys, merchant navy, sunk once but again seldom talked about it.
Me 45 years Merchant Navy, Iran Iraq war hit by rockets strait of Hermouz, 3 dead onboard, trust me I was no hero absolutely terrified 50,000 ton tanker carrying petroleum products, diffo squeaky bum time.
I would have had a squeaky bum standing on the land near you with that lot. :lol
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Dad was RAF in Egypt, staff driver with a sten gun, many a time driving along the straight road alongside the Suez canal he'd say the bus drivers would play chicken with him by driving straight down the middle, a few bursts off the sten made them see sense
another time he said he got a puncture and swerved and hit the only tree on the road, it saved him from going in the canal. He'd pick up an officer and be told to drive to the desert where someone at a certain point would flash a torch and he'd be told to "hang a right here" probably LRDG/SAS missions
Ended up a docker and told me stories of a docker who was ex POW in a Jap camp and he was so traumatised that he hated anything Japanese even cars. If a Jap boat docked then he'd want to kill the crew, now known as PTSD
granddad was in the Merch and got torpedoed twice on the Arctic runs, still got his medals
both gone now but I'd love to be able to sit and chew the cud with them now I'm older
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Me 45 years Merchant Navy, Iran Iraq war hit by rockets strait of Hermouz, 50,000 ton tanker carrying petroleum products
And now you get your kicks from a Fazer ------ where else !!
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we even have a song dedicated to our fallen............its called scouser tommy
Let me tell you the story of a poor boy
Who was sent far away from his home
To fight for his king and his country
And also the old folks back home
So they put him in a Highland division
Sent him off to a far foreign land
Where the flies swarm around in their thousands
And there's nothing to see but the sands
Now the battle started next morning
Under an Arabian sun
I remember the poor Scouser Tommy
Who was shot by an old Nazi gun
As he lay on the battle field dying (dying dying)
With the blood gushing out of his head (of his head)
As he lay on the battle field dying (dying dying)
These were the last words he said...
Oh...I am a Liverpudlian
I come from the Spion Kop
I like to sing, I like to shout
I go there quite a lot (every week)
We support the team that's dressed in red
A team that we all know
A team that we call Liverpool
And to glory we will go
We've won the League, we've won the Cup
We've been to Europe too
We played the Toffees for a laugh
And we left them feeling blue - Five Nil !
One two
One two three
One two three four
Five nil !
Rush scored one
Rush scored two
Rush scored three
And Rush scored four!
look on youtube for it, was at Villa one year and it was getting belted out, one copper turned to his mate and said (does his best brummy accent!!)
" yow know what Bwian, that's the best song oive ever erd" :lol
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Not bad.
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While I agree with no one should be made to wear a poppy your referenece to "Lady Haig" is not quite right, it had nothing to do with her what so ever see below taken off the Poppy Factory web site
Indeed you are correct about that hideous poem, the Americans the French Women and Earl Haig. The first factory I think opened in England in 1920. Lady Haig Established a factory in Edinburgh in 1926 http://www.ladyhaigspoppyfactory.org.uk/home (http://www.ladyhaigspoppyfactory.org.uk/home) and hence the poppy is commonly known to many as Lady Haig's poppy.
The poem urges us to take the fight to our foe, whilst I guess butcher Haig and his wife will be there with a little support should we make it back.
Yes people are told today to wear their poppy, and told to think of their career prospects if they refuse to do so. If you are a BBC news presenter or journalist you will not be allowed on TV in the run up to Armistice Day unless you wear a poppy, and it must be a red poppy.
Commercialisation? Oh yes, The British Legion are up for a bit of that, from their web site,
Get involved with the poppy appeal - Increase sales and competitive advantage
, check it all out for yourself on one of their corporate pages complete with photo of babes throwing poppies about like confetti. http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/corporate-partnerships (http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/corporate-partnerships)
I used to wear a red poppy, but that's when it was about the quiet respectful mourning of the millions, the lost generation of The Great War. But after visiting my Great Grandfather's grave, his generation being the first to have graves - the army previously shipping their bodies home to be minced up and used as fertilizer - I couldn't escape the irony of it all nor fail to notice the way the appeal was slowly changing.
I don't deny the very good work that the legion does, but why should our veterans, and veterans of whatever stupid war, right or wrong, fighting for rich men, then have to rely on charity to keep their heids above the watur.
Pride and ultimate sacrifice? I have no idea how my Great Grandfather died, perhaps he was performing some heroic act, or more likely he was mowed down with 100's or 1000's of others having been ordered over the top to almost certain death by a cretin general. The Great War is a fascinating example of how a few mad men can control 100,000's. Making an example of a soldier, perhaps picked out at random, by murdering him seemed to be one handy little tool.
Anyway I'm sorry if I offend, but the poppy appeal gets bigger and bigger, more and more crass, dragging on unavoidably increasingly celebrating war, pride and sacrifice.
Ach back to Harry Patch, who yes wore a Red Poppy on remembrance day;
When the war ended, I don't know if I was more relieved that we'd won or that I didn't have to go back. Passchendaele was a disastrous battle – thousands and thousands of young lives were lost. It makes me angry. Earlier this year, I went back to Ypres to shake the hand of Charles Kuentz, Germany's only surviving veteran from the war. It was emotional. He is 107. We've had 87 years to think what war is. To me, it's a licence to go out and murder. Why should the British government call me up and take me out to a battlefield to shoot a man I never knew, whose language I couldn't speak? All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that Harry Patch.
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The first factory I think opened in England in 1920. Lady Haig Established a factory in Edinburgh in 1926 [url]http://www.ladyhaigspoppyfactory.org.uk/home[/url] ([url]http://www.ladyhaigspoppyfactory.org.uk/home[/url]) and hence the poppy is commonly known to many as Lady Haig's poppy.
Whether Lady Haig highjacks the idea and sets up a factory in Scotland 4 years later is irrelevant, the poppy is the poopy she can call her factory what she likes and I've never heard of them but not being Scottish I guess I wouldn't!
Anyway I'm sorry if I offend, but the poppy appeal gets bigger and bigger, more and more crass, dragging on unavoidably increasingly celebrating war, pride and sacrifice.
Mate you are fully entailed to your view, which I respect but I for one don’t agree with it and there I will leave it.
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Anyway I'm sorry if I offend, but the poppy appeal gets bigger and bigger, more and more crass, dragging on unavoidably increasingly celebrating war, pride and sacrifice.
Mate you are fully entailed to your view, which I respect but I for one don’t agree with it and there I will leave it.
Wearing a poppy on Remberance Sundya and Armistice Day and a couple days either side i agree with , but yes you are right on the over commercialisation of it, oh bit like christmas, trees go up after the above days, really!!!
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I think the BBC are the worst for it as im sure that they have an whole army (pun) of poppyers whos sole job it is to make sure every single person appearing HAS to wear one.
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I think I was me that is to blame for sending this thread off in this poppy direction with my ring of red track remark, which I slightly regret now its gone off on one.
All I wanted was a ride around a track without paying for a track day !!!
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Ach, it's an opinion, a point of view, it's how I feel about this whole war and remembrance thing.
You know what if we put all the effort that we put into war, say into peace and prosperity, peace and prosperity for all......................
However, whilst much of our industry is in chronic decline, our 'defence' industry is in rude health, apparently currently worth between 30 and 40 billion quid in exports. It's what some folks call a Industrial Military Complex. Without war we face economic ruin.
War, what is it good for? Our economy - apparently.
Anyway here is where my Great Granddad lies. I do hope I got the right fella!
I took the picture in 2001. I showed it to my Mum and my Aunt. I never showed it to anybody else, until I scanned the slide and posted it in 2011 on a photo-sharing site, and this is what I wrote, and like I say it's just about how I feel about things. Sorry if I'm going on a bit Gnasher, but hopefully this is all I have to say for a wee while :groan
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6042/6339884075_c6b2eb3967.jpg)
A few days ago my computer screen said "11-11-11, a once in a lifetime remembrance". I wondered what that meant.
I heard on the radio of footballers wanting to play with the poppy on their shirts. Fifa said no. Politicians, fools sporting poppies, whilst sending yet more young men to their deaths, debated Fifa's ruling in Parliament. The fools were outraged. So, Fifa said OK, they can wear a black arm band with a poppy on it. I wondered, what if one player says no, no I won't wear Lady Haig's Poppy, what then.
I read in my paper of Pop Idol contestants and judges sporting glitzy designer poppies.
This is my Great Grandfathers Grave. He, like hundreds of thousands of others, was marched needlessly to his death. David, Son of Arthur and Mary, slaughtered at the Battle of Arras.
This photograph was taken in 2001, the slide says 01-11-01. I got a taxi out there from Arras. I found the grave, I sat down and offered some flowers. Had I really found him, was he really there, did it really matter. I spent a little time there, before quietly walking the eight or nine miles back to Arras.
David's wife never even saw his grave, I may be the first from our family to do so. But then I don't really know. That death changed our family forever, maybe others, that I know not of, have also visited.
So yes David, you are remembered, but no David I don't wear, I won't wear Lady Haig's Poppy.
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My Great Great Grandfather was killed somewhere near Arras, he died 10th October 1918 in the last month of the war. He was a driver with 56th Motor Transport Company, Army Service Corps, they were attached to the artillery and resupplied the guns with ammunition. He conceived my Great Grandmother whilst home on leave, returned to France and didn't come back. His truck was his by a shell and exploded, he survived for a short time after but succumbed to his wounds in a casualty clearing station, which to my understanding is a large military hospital some way behind the lines.
My great grandma never met her father but we traced him through the commonwealth war graves commission and took her to France about ten years ago to see him for the first time. Since then she has passed away, but we have revisited with my grandma and we took my children this year.
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Some interesting facts and a bit controversial.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25776836 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25776836)
Mickey
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VNA - Why are you such an argumentative git? (I could have said something much worse)
My granddad was in the Navy during WW2 and the other granddad was something to do with the desert rats but I never managed to speak to him about it as he died when I was about 10. He never spoke to my mum or nan about it either so his story will ever be known by me. The one that was in the navy however only died about 5 years ago so I managed to speak to him a bit about his time in the navy and even managed to sail to France with him and go to the Normandy beaches where he was recounting some sorry tales.
As I said, he died 5 years ago and now my nan has cancer and may not get to see the 70th anniversary of D-day but if she does and she is fit enough to travel, I plan to be in Normandy with her on 6th June 2014 wearing a poppy to remember all of those that didn't make it off the beaches and helped ensure that cocks like VNA don't have German as their first language.
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Comments like, "he like hundreds of thousands of others, was marched needlessly to his death" well yeh, but my Dad survived and so does that mean he was therefore marched out of a necessity to a victory.
I wonder what your attude would be if your great grandad had of made it through the war.
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VNA - Why are you such an argumentative git? (I could have said something much worse)
I plan to be in Normandy with her on 6th June 2014 wearing a poppy to remember all of those that didn't make it off the beaches and helped ensure that cocks like VNA don't have German as their first language.
Ah I see, I'm a cock because I have my own opinion, and that opinion differs from yours. Very good.
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VNA - Why are you such an argumentative git? (I could have said something much worse)
I plan to be in Normandy with her on 6th June 2014 wearing a poppy to remember all of those that didn't make it off the beaches and helped ensure that cocks like VNA don't have German as their first language.
Ah I see, I'm a cock because I have my own opinion, and that opinion differs from yours. Very good.
OI YOU TWO now that sort of thing is what started the war in the first place.
I would prefer to see this thread just carry on as it started.
If people want to have a fight then could we start a new thread and have it out there. I thick everyone should have the right to their opinion but I dont think it should be on this thread.
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OI YOU TWO now that sort of thing is what started the war in the first place.
I would prefer to see this thread just carry on as it started.
Hang on a minute I'm not the one calling names.
I thick everyone should have the right to their opinion but I dont think it should be on this thread.
Perhaps I forgot something. War is not the least bit controversial. Not at all. Just saying :)
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If you search for Deborah Bryant on Facebook she is a family tree expert who specialises in military or email ifindyourpast@gmail.co.uk
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My grandfather fought with the Yugoslav Partisans ( Europe's most effective anti-Nazi [/size]resistance movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_during_World_War_II)[/color], holding a lot of German divisions busy[/size]) in the north of our country. Never liked to talk about war. Never hated Germans, just fascists. When I asked him if he got wounded, he laughed and said "yes, in the arse once". :) He was decorated after the war (got those medals on his chest on some special occasions, but never talked about them).
Father was with the police during 1999. NATO bombing of my country, when the police were mobilized along with the army, entering police buildings that were targeted to save, or keep com. equipment working, but was lucky to get out in time every time.
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My grandfather fought with the Yugoslav Partisans ( Europe's most effective anti-Nazi resistance movement ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_during_World_War_II[/url]), holding a lot of German divisions busy) in the north of our country. Never liked to talk about war. Never hated Germans, just fascists. When I asked him if he got wounded, he laughed and said "yes, in the arse once". :) He was decorated after the war (got those medals on his chest on some special occasions, but never talked about them).
Father was with the police during 1999. NATO bombing of my country, when the police were mobilized along with the army, entering police buildings that were targeted to save, or keep com. equipment working, but was lucky to get out in time every time.
That's really interesting Slaninar, the various resistance movements around Europe did an amazing job in keeping the German army busy. A very dangerous thing to do.
Mickey
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Am quite surprised that we haven't heard anything about the heroic exploits of EXUPNUTS dad when he fought alongside colonel Custer in the battle of the Little Big Horn. :rollin Probably just being modest. I've got to say ever since I met him he has reminded me of someone but I just couldn't put my finger on it.........
UNTIL NOW....http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CD4QtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Df5cL-h3Pj1o&ei=mKIUU5b5IZOy7Ab2jYHIBg&usg=AFQjCNHEdGjWSxxouc4GIVYjAv7jD91SGg&bvm=bv.61965928,d.ZGU (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CD4QtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Df5cL-h3Pj1o&ei=mKIUU5b5IZOy7Ab2jYHIBg&usg=AFQjCNHEdGjWSxxouc4GIVYjAv7jD91SGg&bvm=bv.61965928,d.ZGU)
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"I only ride it, I don't know how it works" hahaha, yeah, that sounds familiar :P
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My grandfather fought with the Yugoslav Partisans ( Europe's most effective anti-Nazi resistance movement ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_during_World_War_II[/url]), holding a lot of German divisions busy) in the north of our country. Never liked to talk about war. Never hated Germans, just fascists. When I asked him if he got wounded, he laughed and said "yes, in the arse once". :) He was decorated after the war (got those medals on his chest on some special occasions, but never talked about them).
Father was with the police during 1999. NATO bombing of my country, when the police were mobilized along with the army, entering police buildings that were targeted to save, or keep com. equipment working, but was lucky to get out in time every time.
That's really interesting Slaninar, the various resistance movements around Europe did an amazing job in keeping the German army busy. A very dangerous thing to do.
Mickey
Certainly was. Photos from a trip to France and Flanders last year, this was in Arras where resistance fighters were shot by the nazis.
It was one of those places that has an aura about it, really quiet, no one around except us. Sobering.
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Yugoslavia had a great resistance movement. Holding a vast number of (mostly) German divisions - at the start of 1941 effectively postponing the start of the invasion of Russia, enough for the winter to creep in and stop the Germans - later helping allied war efforts.
First liberated territories in occupied Europe were in Serbia, with a functioning resistance's own bullets (and weapons) factory working for a few months.
By April 1945, there were some 800,000 soldiers in the Partisan army. Despite their success, the Partisans suffered heavy casualties throughout the war.
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Been there demic77, I wandered in by myself, it's creepy.
Don't forget the International Brigades. Men and women from different countries who travelled to Spain to fight the fascists. People who didn't need to drafted or told what to do, they went becuase they knew what was going on and they cared. It's estimated that some 500 Scots volunteered.
Meanwhile our government stuck to the Non-Intervention agreement which naturally other signature countries such as Germany, Italy and Russia broke, sealing Spain's fate, and some would say one of the major steps along the road to WW2.
La Pasionaria; (The Passion Flower, Glasgow)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2538/4103714086_ca65467143.jpg)
Better to die on your feet then to live forever on your knees - Dolores Ibarruri