old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: Hedgetrimmer on 23 October 2013, 01:18:53 pm
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Anyone got anything on one of these schemes?
I'm thinking once the loan on my bike is paid off, it would be a good way of trying out some new bikes again. A Triumph dealer was telling me about it, and have just read an article in one of the bike mags too. Wouldn't want my only bike on the scheme, as I don't want to be limited on the mileage I can do, but like I said, once mine is paid off......
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If you've got a bike in mind, can afford it when yours is paid off, then DO IT! I would.
Can't think of a single reason why you shouldn't.
What bike you got in mind...curious 'cos you were in a Triumph dealer (good man).........reckon a Street Triple R or a Tiger 800 roadie!
C'mon spill :D
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:lol
Well, it won't be next year so sorry to disappoint! But one needs a few things to aim for in life, and I'm getting fed up with reading about so many good bikes out there and not being able to try anything (a test ride is just a d**k tease, and will only make me more miserable at this stage! :lol )
I hanker after my younger days when I traded bikes pretty regularly, it enhanced my biking experience no end. Trouble is, the PCP deals seem to be manufacturer-led, and I'd want to try different brands. KTM probably do the largest no. of bikes I'd like to try, but most of them are in a similar mould, just different ccs. Would like to try the new Kwak Z1000SX, perhaps an Aprillia Tuono, Ducati Hypermotard - the list goes on. If you could get a PCP independent of manufacturer, that would be ideal. Does such a thing exist?
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Best bet Nick is to get a bank loan. Buy the bike you want and run it for as long as you want then chop it in for another. As far as the bike is concerned, it isn't on finance so you can do what you want with the cash the dealer gives you for it.
PCP is OK but limits you. You can swap bikes around a bit but maybe not as much as you would like as they still want a deposit paying on each bike and your unlikely to get that back at chop in time.
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That's why I want to pay mine off first. It's on a bank loan, once it's mine I can always put the extra miles on it, and still return a PCP bike within the agreed mileage limits. Most manufacturers have a bit of leeway built into those limits (as well as initial deposit amount, monthly payments, length of contract etc, hence personal contract). You choose these things to suit your own requirements. It seems you can at least put 6000 miles a year on the bike, BMW do up to 20,000 miles in some agreements. But you can't hand the bike back with any mods on it, and it has to be dealer serviced at the correct intervals, condition of trade in bike has to be up to a certain standard too. (This makes me wonder what happens if you stack it - presumably they'd insist on fully comp?).
But if I've got my own Fazer to mod as I choose, I still think it would be a good way of trying different bikes. And if you want to get out of it, you just hand the bike back to the dealer when a contract on a particular bike expires, and walk away.
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I believe Black horse do an independant finance PCP deals with any of their dealers. might be an option for you to look into.
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I'd always be worried about the arguments about at hand back time.
Read about some on a Mercedes forum. It's not a dealer who signs it off but an "independent" firm.
Now I think they make their bunce by putting the cars right, ie bodywork and wheel repairs and charge you a fair wack to do so.
One guy took photos of his car at the dealers with a member of the dealer present as a witness. The firm tried to sting him for a few hundred quid which after a lot of aggro they did back down but I imagine most just pay up.
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:agree
I have heard that the Merc scheme has a few problems. With them, if its not clean enough to go straight on the forecourt without touching it, they charge for it.
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Nick, I have test ridden all the bikes on your list plus a few more this year.
The best by far (for me) was the KTM 1190 Adventure.
There are so many different options for finance it is very confusing, it all boils down to what you can afford each month and how much in total you have to pay back. I try to save a couple of hundred quid a month into a new bike fund and then pay cash, I haven't had a new bike for nearly 10 years so I need to spend some of it before the wife needs a new kitchen.
Seriously considering one of these soon.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/Tmation/IMG_20130808_111857_zps7edf351d.jpg)
Was hoping to like this but it wasn't as good as the hype (same as the BMW GS)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/Tmation/IMG_20130808_120529_zps461b02c4.jpg)
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FWIW My query with PCP is always asking myself the question "who is going to benefit". I can go out and negotiate myself a loan at the best rate I can. With PCP I have to take what is on offer with no negotiation. It will include their profit margin, excesses and a balloon payment on conclusion (as well as a strike in the outstanding finance box).
I'd always prefer to take out a personal loan and sell the bike on at a later date. It's personal choice and depends on circumstances and finances too.
YMMV, E&OE
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You could be right Simon, and personal loans are the way I've always done it. It's just something I'm looking at for possible future use, weighing the pros and cons. Just wondered if anyone had experience of it, and if so, how did they find it to be in actuality.
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You could be right Simon, and personal loans are the way I've always done it. It's just something I'm looking at for possible future use, weighing the pros and cons. Just wondered if anyone had experience of it, and if so, how did they find it to be in actuality.
It's a contract dude. Can't sign a contract and then whine about it afterwards ;-). It's a purely financial transaction, some people will win, some will lose. The main winners are normally people who believe in renting over owning houses or people that change their cars every 3 years.
It's one of those things that has overheads but if it's the way you live your life it'll fit like a glove. You pays your money, you take your choice.
I've never done taken out PCP so I'll exit stage left.
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Oh, I don't know - it's all just dreaming really at this stage :\ . I won't be doing anything about a 2nd bike next year anyway probably as I 've already set my biking targets for then. But after that, who knows? But all the talk of this new-to-motorcycles method in dealers and the magazines has piqued my interest, and I'm just wondering if it could be of any use to me.
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you are getting warm when you ask just who will benefit...
personally I would avoid pcp schemes. They basically try to tie you to a brand. If u pay cash or bank loan you have much more freedom.
essentially a pcp is a rental .You dont own anything till u pay it all off.
as ever the best way to compare is to work out the " cost of sale" ie what is the actual cost of each transaction. PCP also tend to disguise true cost of the sale.
AND , with any new bike purchase,u have to factor in the depreciation cost too....a massive hidden cost when buying new.
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I got my 2011 FZ8 on pcp.
£500 depsosit £99 a month.
3 years hand it back and get new one. :)
Get enough back out bike to cover deposit for new one so will just be the monthy "rent"
Happy days
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PCP give u a final valuation figure at start.
Yes garage gains but you gain freedom.
Can switch manufacturers at end of term as PCP is a finance payment NOT a manufacturer contract
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Is it with one dealer then? Or can you go to another dealer, as well as changing manufacturer? That kind of flexibility would make it much more attractive....
The magazine write-up I just read only talks about manufacturer schemes, so seems it wasn't a brilliantly researched article.
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I personally am not one for PCP's, or other credit schemes; these are generally in favour of the finance firms who earn money via the interest / APR (a £6k bike can cost you more like £7k on finance, so it pays to check).
If you go to a bank, and ask for a loan, you may just find the interest on that is more competitive than on PCP. Plus, if you can pay outright on the bike (OK, you'll still have to pay back the bank), you can probably haggle a few hundred quid off the price. If you can save a bit, the loan doesn't need to be so big then.
When I bought mine I'd saved up enough (took a bit of time right enough, lots of overtime, and sacrificed weekends in the pub), and got £500 off paying outright (bike advertised at £4k, paid £3500, 3.5 year old), plus on a 3yo bike, I missed the hard-hitting depreciation too. Also meant that when I was made redundant, I didn't have to keep finding the money to keep up payments because it was already paid for.
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Im a bike snob fk depreciation I like nee bikes ;-)
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It's funny really, cos if I got a bank loan, there's no way I'd be buying brand new - nearly new second-hand to avoid the instant depreciation when you wheel it out of the showroom. But the way PCPs work mean low monthly payments, and I guess that's what appeals. Yes, you may pay more in the long run, but there again, you may pay less as you're not paying for the entire value of the bike. As I have it, you pay for a new bike less the Guaranteed Final Value (GFV), which then becomes your trade-in for the next one. And if you decide you're not going any further after that first contract expires, you give the bike back and that's it - nothing more owed. I guess it would then depend on how much deposit you put down in the first instance.
????? Flawed thinking?
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Never a borrower or a lender be.
My thinking is that if you get a loan, then you have a loan to pay for as well as the bike, and now that cash is king again, you pay more for the bike when you take a loan, and then add in the hit from depreciation.
PCP might be better than a loan or not, but surely a shroud cash buy is hard to beat. If I ain't got the cash, then I can't afford it.
Anyway what about older bikes. There's many ten year old summer sunny Sunday bikes popping up for sale now and again. If I can find some cash in the spring, now that my garage is almost finished, well I might just...................
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If I'd gone by that philosophy VNA, I wouldn't have enjoyed half the bikes I have over the years. I don't regret any of them (well, maybe the Superdream! - but that was bought outright for cash). I never have more than one loan at a time, I've never had a credit card or other debts at the same time, and I've always paid the loans off early. And one thing that has meant, is that whenever I go to my bank for a loan, the answer has always been "yes". But I have always also saved up a good deposit to keep the monthly payments as low as I can. Works for me.
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Well theoretically if you'd have followed such a philosophy, you might have been able to enjoy half as much bikes again!
How can paying considerably more than you otherwise have to allow you to enjoy more bikes?
Of course the problem is sticking to the philosophy. It's just too easy to dip yer pocket. Whereas the bank loan gets you the bike when there's no money in your pocket.
Anyway you are speaking to a man who can quickly list all the bikes he's owned over the last 27 years;
Honda C90
Suzuki GS500E
CBR600F
Fazer600
Fazer1000
That's it! Oh dear! Had shots on a fair amount of other stuff, but I'm aware that the grass is always greener!
Bought my current bike, the thou, band new in 2004. I think it's a keeper, but now I have a garage for the first time in my life, I might add another.
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Lol, that's why I can never save outright for a bike. Money just burns those pocket holes too deep and too fast! If I get a loan/finance, that money is committed, and then I know I can't touch it for anything else, and I'm good at the discipline about that.
Yes, garages are dangerous things, (aren't they red98?! :lol ) Now, if only I could clear some of my ol' man's junk out of his garage.......
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I got my 2011 FZ8 on pcp.
£500 depsosit £99 a month.
3 years hand it back and get new one. :)
Get enough back out bike to cover deposit for new one so will just be the monthy "rent"
Happy days
So providing you have no "extras" to pay at hand back it's costing you a tad over 4 grand over 3 years.
Is that good or bad?
Interested in your last sentence, what do you mean by "get enough back to cover deposit for new one" ?
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Let me see if I've got this right. So, you go to your local dealer, and under the terms of the particular PCP scheme they do, you work out what deposit to pay, and work out how long you want to pay the finance over. So far, just the same as any finance. But you also agree the GFV = Guaranteed Final Value, at the end of that term, i.e, what the dealer will give you for the bike as trade-in value if you swap for something else at the end of that contract. So you're not paying for that part of the cost of the bike. So say the bike's cost new was £8000. You subtract the GFV, say £4000, leaves £4000 to pay. You put down a deposit, say £1000. So your monthly payments are only for £3000, over whatever length of time you want to pay it, 1, 2, 3 years, whatever. Of course, you are paying interest on the finance, but as it's on a smaller amount than if you were to finance the whole cost, it should be less.
Then, as long as you return the bike at the end of the contract in the condition as agreed at the start, having serviced it as and when required, in standard trim, and within the agreed mileage limit, you get the GFV amount to use as deposit on the next bike, for which you start a new finance agreement. Or, you hand the keys to the dealer and walk away, nothing owed.
Sound right?
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Think you hit nail on the head there Nick.
My car is on pcp, my last one i thought id keep but it was really unreliable so my plan now is to do the 3 years and then decide whether to keep it or not based on if i like it or or if it is reliable.......however what if i do wanna keep it then i gotta cough up the outstanding on it from its new price minus what ive already paid....& where the foc am i gonna suddenly produce this sum from.....nowhere....so ive gotta really put that money aside each month anyway which makes it no different to just financing the full price & and id still get the car......or selling the car if i don't like it...
Far as i can see the dealers/finance company are really banking on me forgetting to save my payments or not being disciplined enough & spending it on other stuff each month......thus tying me in forever and ever in a perpetual finance spiral.......so basically leasing the car....
Only bonus i can see is if i lose my job i can afford to keep driving coz the payments are so low....ats about it. IMO 8)
Dont know why i did it, actually it was more the dealers mistake & i went along with it but im saving the extra nicely so far but its annoying remembering to save it each month.
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Yes, but isn't it different with a bike? What I mean is, we ride bikes for fun, more of a hobby. So if you want to try different bikes, you start a new contract at the end of each old one, and get something different, or whatever appeals. Yes, you're keeping finance going all the time, but you can drop out at the end of any contract. For me, I would have my Fazer all paid off before I started such a scheme, so if I quit the PCP at the end of a contract, I'd still have a bike (and a foccin good one at that :lol ). And nothing owed on finance.
With your car Noggy, you just want one to own outright, run it as long as is financially/mechanically viable. It's a work horse, you're not looking to get a play with all kinds of different cars. Do you see what I'm trying to say?
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Ye that makes sense Nick, & basically means that you cut out all the bullshit trying to sell your bike every 3 years as the whole process is geared to go via the dealer instead of bloody bike trader or whatever with a private sale....& like you say the worst case is that you say thanks but no thanks,hand them the bike back then go home & get the old faithful fazer out to play.
Damn you nick you already talked deadeye into a new bike......now you got me thinkin about it....plus with ogris just do it attitude ill be debted to oblivion soon :lol
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Well, the reason it would work for me is I don't have any other commitments - bikes and that's it. Once you got a mortgage, wife and kids and all the rest of it, obviously you've got to be more careful about your financial commitments. So don't let me persuade you to jump into it!
I've always lived that way - remember the movie "Heat"? And DeNiro's character says something about being able to just drop everything in a moment and foc off? Well, I can't quite be like that, but I've always tried to be as close to that philosophy as I can within certain parameters. Never more than one finance agreement from it anyhow! :lol Having lived thro several periods of unemployment, living in crappy one-bed flats, scraping pennies just to eat - I'm always thinking what to do when that happens again. It's living with uncertainty all the time, and many folks couldn't hack that way of life. But when I do have a period of stability, I tend to lash out and do as much as I can, before it all disappears again. Next week/month/year, I could be homeless and unemployed, but I'll deal with that if and when it happens. It doesn't affect anyone else with me. And I've always got me tent! :lol
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Dont worry Nick you can stay in my shed with the fazer...the wifi signal should reach so you can still get access to foc-u...what more do you need :D ...ii love the film HEAT, i had it on dvd but lost it...i can watch it over & over again....total classic & gotta be my favourite fire & manoeuvre scene from a movie...but then i am watching Weaponology right now on TV & then im gonna go on my xbox online & play a bit of battlefield3 so i am biased towards anything with guns right at this moment in time.
I see what you mean & say just go for it, like you say you never know whats round the corner.....
Soooooo.....have you narrowed down what bike your gonna get???.......i would go total overkill & get a 1290 duke i reckon...i wonder how much one o them is on pcp.
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I don't think I could do this as my only bike. I'd be scared of winter riding ruining the residual's. Also the mileage allowance. I wonder what they imagine is a yearly mileage allowance is?
Mickey
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Yeah, that's a classic movie, one of my all time favourites too. The restaurant scene was the first time DeNiro and Pacino actually appeared in the same scene together, a real head to head of 2 great talents. I loved Pacino in Donny Brasco too, he played that so natural. What was the name of that film they did together about the 2 cops, and Pacino turned out to be a serial killer? I was a bit disappointed in that - good, but not great, I thought.
Jeez, Noggy, you won't turn out to be a Milford version of Rambo or something will you?!! "Noggy's back, and this time he's got the Noggyfighter!!!" :2guns Remind me never to upset you...... :lol
Nah, I gotta pay off this one first, financed over 2 years from last May. But could conceivably clear it by the end of next year, then save a deposit (if things run smooth til then of course) and then...well, maybe. At this stage, it's just something to consider. Winter's coming - gotta have something to occupy my thoughts. That Duke and one or two other KTMs would be on my list tho. I find myself buying any bike mag that's got a test of those, and that's always a dangerous sign! :lol
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I don't think I could do this as my only bike. I'd be scared of winter riding ruining the residual's. Also the mileage allowance. I wonder what they imagine is a yearly mileage allowance is?
Mickey
Yep, you gotta look after any bike you have on this Mickey. From what I've read, mileage allowances vary anywhere between 6000 miles, and BMW apparently have one deal that allows up to 20,000 miles. Absolutely agree, would not want to do it as my only bike - for one thing, you can't mod it how you like, cos you've got to give it back as standard - hence paying off mine before I decide. But another thing, if you do it that way, it would help to keep the mileage down a bit on your own bike too.