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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: notoriusb.e.n on 22 October 2013, 01:56:42 pm

Title: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 22 October 2013, 01:56:42 pm
Hi folks.
I have an odd noise on my 03 fazer 600 - its like a bit of a rattly noise that increases in severity as you accelerate, then goes away when you get up to certain revs. Either that or its drowned out by the Beowulf.
I don't think its the cam chain, as I've had that before on a superdream and that rattled way worse than this, and also at a standstill. was proper rough.
I've checked the drive chain tension and it seems to be OK to me, got about an inch of play in total up and down? I'm going to try pushing the bike without the engine running see if it still makes the noise - which would hopefully indicate whether its the engine or something else. admittedly I hadn't thought of that yet. only other thing I can think of is the rear hugger might be a bit loose and rubbing against the rear tyre, but I would have seen signs of damage/wear to the hugger i'd have thought.
I appreciate the awkwardness of this request - as its difficult to describe a noise over the internet, and as it doesn't do it unless I'm riding I can't "record" it as such. but any ideas or at least reassurance that its likely to be something minor would be nice.
I should note that the bike still runs and rides perfectly fine with no noticeable adverse effects.
 
 
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: Fazerider on 22 October 2013, 02:09:35 pm
Even a correctly tensioned dive chain will be noisy if it's worn. Try pulling on the chain at the 3 o'clock position on the rear sprocket, if it's stretched enough to come away from the sprocket by a couple of millimetres it's probably the cause of the noise.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 22 October 2013, 02:54:50 pm
Another thing you can eliminate, put the bike on the centre stand and spin the front wheel, i've had brake pads chattering before when they slightly catch on the discs, which is either a worn caliper or even just ill fitting pads.
 
Bit difficult to guess to be honest.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 22 October 2013, 06:43:35 pm
Done a little more home diagnosis.

it doesn't make any noises being pushed around.

I've eliminated the hugger as even wiggling it about (which you can't really do without abnormal force anyway) won't foul the rear tyre, so its not that.

so its looking like engine related possibly. Been sat on it revving and there is a tickety tappety chuggety noise which appears to come from the top left hand side of the engine and increases on revs. but then that could be normal.

I will try the chain pull anyway, just in case. I'd be quite relieved if its just needing new C+S, I've been expecting them to want doing at some point. but as its not done it while being pushed I don't know. but then I'm not pushing with the force of the engine either.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 22 October 2013, 07:17:38 pm
You're describing the cam chain, like a sewing machine noise?


Have a look on YouTube and see if the sound is similar?


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fzs+600+cam+chain+noise&oq=fzs+600+cam+chain+noise&gs_l=youtube.3...955.7512.0.8321.23.23.0.0.0.0.207.1775.19j3j1.23.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.SJMRSl_0f_I (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fzs+600+cam+chain+noise&oq=fzs+600+cam+chain+noise&gs_l=youtube.3...955.7512.0.8321.23.23.0.0.0.0.207.1775.19j3j1.23.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.SJMRSl_0f_I)
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 22 October 2013, 09:30:23 pm
Well its nowhere near as bad as those noises no. and its not quite sewing machine, more tractor.

I will try and record it but as it mainly does it when riding rather than at a standstill its going to be awkward (don't have a cam other than phone camera)
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 22 October 2013, 10:26:42 pm
Well its nowhere near as bad as those noises no. and its not quite sewing machine, more tractor.

I will try and record it but as it mainly does it when riding rather than at a standstill its going to be awkward (don't have a cam other than phone camera)


How can a tractor not be as bad as a sewing machine?  :lol
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: Doddsie on 22 October 2013, 10:47:08 pm




How can a tractor not be as bad as a sewing machine?  :lol





 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: CRH on 22 October 2013, 11:37:31 pm




How can a tractor not be as bad as a sewing machine?  :lol





 :rollin :rollin :rollin
......stop it doddsie?...you got me in....STITCHES here" :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: noggythenog on 22 October 2013, 11:47:51 pm
I dont know much really but a common thing with Fazers is having the chain too tight.




Also...,have you actually inspected the front sprocket....it could be shot to shit & the chain slipping.




Thrice....have you checked if your front sprocket nut is still attached....there's a known fault..if you havent checked it then do not ride again until you do & get back to us.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 23 October 2013, 06:19:50 am
The thing about chain issues is that you "should" feel problems through your left foot rest.


I must confess i'm no closer to guessing what this noise is or where it's coming from?  :look 
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: midden on 23 October 2013, 08:21:56 am
Can you record sound with engine going through rev range  with bike on stand.   
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 23 October 2013, 10:59:42 am
Can you record sound with engine going through rev range  with bike on stand.   
Have to be very careful doing this as the chain will slap and the bike becomes a bit unsafe.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: midden on 23 October 2013, 11:09:47 am
I mean  steady throttle control  with gradual rev increase   as opposed to blip blip wee :)
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: His Dudeness on 23 October 2013, 01:41:36 pm
Try covering the end of the exhaust with a rag as you're reving the engine to quieten the can. Should help you hear if it's a problem in the engine
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 23 October 2013, 09:20:14 pm
by tractor i mean its a more gruff rumbly chugging noise than it is a sewing machine noise. it might be that the cam chain could be just on the way out, and its going to get more rattly if left unchecked.

Thanks for the rag tip. the exhaust is pretty loud so it does make determining location of noise a little awkward.

tried it on the centre stand in gear and yep, that chain does slap a bit.

Don't feel anything through my feet unfortunately so nothing there.

I will try and record it tomorrow and get it uploaded.

i've done the front sprocket nut upgrade so that certainly shouldn't be the cause.  good point about the sprocket being worn though. haven't checked that. will do.

also tried pulling the chain backwards off the rear sprocket and no budge at all there.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 23 October 2013, 09:35:15 pm
"...gruff rumbly chugging noise ..."

That sounds like me down the pub on a Saturday night. :b :lol




My money's still on the camchain.
What is the mileage by the way?
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 24 October 2013, 01:29:58 pm
14K. Which is why I'd be surprised if it were anything engine related. surely its not had enough use for anything to go there. have only done 2K myself and its definitely not had the hardest of lives - its pretty much mint still cosmetically.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 24 October 2013, 01:40:51 pm
14K. Which is why I'd be surprised if it were anything engine related. surely its not had enough use for anything to go there. have only done 2K myself and its definitely not had the hardest of lives - its pretty much mint still cosmetically.

Okay, that's more than likely ruled the cam chain out then.
We're gonna need to hear it to be able to guess any further i think!
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 24 October 2013, 01:54:24 pm
Have recorded it going to upload to youtube when I get home tonight. Afraid its only the tickover noise, as I haven't a proper cam to record whilst riding.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 24 October 2013, 03:09:14 pm
Have recorded it going to upload to youtube when I get home tonight. Afraid its only the tickover noise, as I haven't a proper cam to record whilst riding.

Anything will be helpful  :)
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: His Dudeness on 24 October 2013, 04:55:58 pm
Have recorded it going to upload to youtube when I get home tonight. Afraid its only the tickover noise, as I haven't a proper cam to record whilst riding.

Anything will be helpful  :)

In that case I think I may be of assistance. When you rev the engine it goes brooom broom and there's a ticking that sounds like someone doing some sewing on the back of a tractor . Hope that's cleared it up :lol
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: CRH on 24 October 2013, 06:03:15 pm
Have recorded it going to upload to youtube when I get home tonight. Afraid its only the tickover noise, as I haven't a proper cam to record whilst riding.

Anything will be helpful  :)

In that case I think I may be of assistance. When you rev the engine it goes brooom broom and there's a ticking that sounds like someone doing some sewing on the back of a tractor . Hope that's cleared it up :lol
.... :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 25 October 2013, 01:50:01 pm
Yeah I do apologise for the general vagueness of it all.  its practically impossible to describe a noise, especially when you aren't quite sure yourself where its coming from or what it sounds like. Gah.
I put it down to having just got rid of 2 BMW's, first you hear an odd noise and then your bank account empties.
Well I gave up in the end and dropped by a mechanic on the way home from work last night. He reckons its transmission related, and wants to point it at the chain and sprockets due to them being the original ones - 10 years old and 14k miles. If thats all it is I'm happy and relieved. Really don't want anything serious wrong with this bike as its the nicest cleanest most reliable one I've had yet.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 25 October 2013, 01:58:32 pm
As i said earlier, when the chain starts playing up it'll be felt through the left foot, normally caused by sticking links.
Saying that, many a noise and bad vibe have been cured by a new chain so it's always worth a go.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: noggythenog on 25 October 2013, 08:26:47 pm
What side is the noise coming from when you sit on the bike, when you sit on the bike & duck your head down towards either side of the tank then does it come from the right???, ive got a ticking noise from that areabut i presume it is just the cam chain so i dont worry about it....my bike still runs fine...does your bike run ok?...did the noise start soon after doing the sprocket nut?...& do you mean the chain moves 1 inch up & 1 inch down....or 1/2 inch each way???
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: midden on 25 October 2013, 11:11:00 pm
by tractor i mean its a more gruff rumbly chugging noise than it is a sewing machine noise. it might be that the cam chain could be just on the way out, and its going to get more rattly if left unchecked.

Thanks for the rag tip. the exhaust is pretty loud so it does make determining location of noise a little awkward.

tried it on the centre stand in gear and yep, that chain does slap a bit.

Don't feel anything through my feet unfortunately so nothing there.

I will try and record it tomorrow and get it uploaded.

i've done the front sprocket nut upgrade so that certainly shouldn't be the cause.  good point about the sprocket being worn though. haven't checked that. will do.

also tried pulling the chain backwards off the rear sprocket and no budge at all there.


I was thinking on centrestand in neutral so can hear engine. Thinking if small ends or cam chain worn the noise should still be there and fade as revs get higher.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 26 October 2013, 10:29:06 am
Well I'll try the Chain and Sprockets first, its going to want them anyway if they're still original after 10 years. Front sprocket seems to be hooking a bit. Could be combo of hooking front sprocket and stiff link in chain causing it to jump/slip about under power.

At least that's what I've got my hopes up for now. and its a simple cheap straightforward fix to try.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 26 October 2013, 02:16:24 pm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-FZS600-FAZER-98-03-DID-X-RING-CHAIN-SPROCKET-KIT-/270978385558?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3f17920696#ht_2423wt_1170 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-FZS600-FAZER-98-03-DID-X-RING-CHAIN-SPROCKET-KIT-/270978385558?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3f17920696#ht_2423wt_1170)
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 29 October 2013, 12:33:03 pm
We reckon it might not be the C+S - as its doing it at idling. Which it wouldn't do if its the C+S.
 
What I believe it might actually be, is a vibration issue. The more I think about it the more it makes sense as well - its getting worse now as well so getting quite concerned about it.
It would account for it being worst at certain revs too. I believe it could be that one of the rubber engine mounts has perished and the engine is now vibrating against the frame or something. its booked into the garage for next week to check it out properly anyway now, as I still can't really be satisfied for definite as to what it is.
 
I recorded my ride home last night but it didn't sound right, the only solution I could come up with was to record from my phone whilst in my pocket - and the only noises I got were the phone moving about in my pocket  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 29 October 2013, 01:06:58 pm
Maybe just a broken mounting bolt, hopefully it's an easy fix.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 29 October 2013, 05:50:28 pm
Don't know if this is of any relevance but it seems more "fumey" than usual. as in when I get off now, I smell of smoke/fumes. but that might be the drop in temperature/short journey combination causing it to run richer.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: Doddsie on 29 October 2013, 06:09:49 pm
Loose down pipe?
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 29 October 2013, 06:45:35 pm
Yeah I thought that but no wiggly going on there. Tried earlier and they're not shifting.
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 29 October 2013, 07:24:20 pm
Don't know if this is of any relevance but it seems more "fumey" than usual. as in when I get off now, I smell of smoke/fumes. but that might be the drop in temperature/short journey combination causing it to run richer.


Only smells you should be getting are fumes from the end can, other than that something doesn't seem quite right does it?
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: notoriusb.e.n on 02 November 2013, 05:46:42 pm
I'm pleased to report that this is sorted. One of the nuts on the header bolts had vibrated loose and escaped at some point. the exhaust header "collar" was vibrating and rattling around loose. New nut, noise gone. One very cheap and easy fix. Hurrah.  :)
Title: Re: Please help to diagnose a noise?
Post by: darrsi on 02 November 2013, 08:52:54 pm
Cool  :smokin