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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: Dead Eye on 18 October 2013, 05:07:19 pm
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Tried doing a few searches and couldn't find anything specific so here goes;
Does removing / inserting the baffle on an aftermarket exhaust make any real difference on an Ivanised bike... I wouldn't have thought it make too much difference if any, but Mr. Exupnut has got be thinking now after a conversation we had...
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Tinkering already. ..
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My last fazer had the full monty with standard down pipes and an Akrapovic silencer with removable baffle. I felt it was noticably quicker without the baffle in place.
Jim.
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Interesting shrek.... I thought it woz the other way round although i'm not totaly sure. On my bike I've got a sp engineering stubby and i know they test them @ the factory with the baffle out. For instance my pipe gives 4-5 bhp mid and about 1 bhp top. I chose it because it looks and sounds better than kosmics and my insurance states any more than 5bhp topend is a performance upgrade so more to pay. But....i had it tuned with the baffle in. I thought there may be an issue with consumption and if i run it without the baffle the loss of back pressure must affect the power? Can anyone explain it?
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When I fitted my Scorpion can before Ivanising, I noticed a definite performance improvement when the baffle was removed. Since Ivanising, I haven't refitted the baffle to see if it changes much. I've always looked at the induction/carb/exhaust as a single set up and believe if you change any one part, the rest ought to be altered to match FOR BEST RESULTS. Which doesn't mean it's always absolutely necessary. A freer flowing exhaust (well designed) means better scavenging, and I think can also help to draw in the next charge from the carb side. The full monty set-up really needs an effective exhaust to work at optimum from what Mike has told me, due to up-jetting and air box mod. I would guess that fitting the baffle would reduce this effect somewhat, but TBH, I've been reluctant to mention anything on this thread when there's someone as knowledgeable as Mike around! :lol
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I suppose its also about how u want it set up. I'm lookin for good mpg but standard ish power and i spose the original can is best for that but it's foc-in ugly so new can baffle in tune up and 200 miles per tank. ( medium riding). Any change in miles per tank since mike unfarted it for u?
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I found my Scorpion with baffle in gave almost identical results as the standard can, but much lighter and looks better.
Haven't really noticed fuel consumption alteration since Ivanising, but I don't really look that closely anyway. If the bike needs fuel, I feed it! :lol
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When I had my bike dyno'd I asked them to do a set of runs with the baffle in and out of my Fuel end can.
Baffle in - power 127 / torque 71.
Baffle out - power 134 / torque 74.
From the graphs both torque and fueling delivery are better with the baffle out, and the bike definitely feels fitter.
/Edit - Forgot to confirm bike is Ivanised (Full Monty).
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That seems fairly definitive... and also quite helpful in particular for me since I have a Fuel end can on mine as well haha
The baffle is definitely staying out now ^^
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I dont see the point in doing any upgrades to a Blue bike......they will always under perform! :b
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Flagged as inappropriate
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Will a short exhaust be any difference to a longer one? Some of the longer ones stick out past the number plate!!
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Basically a bigger end can (more internal volume) allows you to run a straight through exhaust without really excessive noise. The small end cans will make similar power with the baffle removed but will lose out to a larger can with the baffle in as the baffle needs to be more restrictive to keep the noise down.
Assuming you are keeping the standard headers the length of the mid pipe also affects where the power is made. The longer it is the more you loose at the top and the more you gain in the mid range.
Horses for courses really, decide on looks / power and where you want that power, how much do you want to pay, how much noise do you want to make etc etc.
I haven't seen any test recently, but the small cans fully baffled to meet noise regs can actually lose a fair bit of power.
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Ok.... That sounds good. Mr Crisp recently had his bike touched by the Falcon and so has mr kosmic. Mr Crisp has the baffle out but mr kosmic runs his bike with the baffle in. I wonder why. I will be takin the baffle outta my bike.....wake up London :-)
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i find with my non ivanised bike with scorpion end can,baffle out, you get a lot more power higher up the rev range and less low down ,pulling away etc....but its rough low down when filtering.....with baffle in its similar to standard but weighs a lot less....i dont like the flimsy build of the scorpion,and have the standard on most of the time........think this is how most after market cans work , moving and increasing the power higher up the rev range suited to fast A roads and track days.......just my opinion of course ;)
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Yeah, I think I experienced that a bit - it does feel a bit more rough at sub 3k rpm with the baffle removed. Can't really comment on the top end as it's so easy to just click up a gear when riding that I tend to be in 6th a lot of the time at the moment :P
I spent most the last "lofo" ride in 3rd on the 600 :\
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The biggest restriction in the exhaust is the exup valve. Changing the end can has the best effect by increasing the power/weightratio. You can mess around all you like with unbaffled cans but all you will acheive is holes in the fuelling. For proper gains a decent 4-1 is needed
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Here's the actual evidence, you can interpret it how you want. I see a 5.5% increase in BHP, smoother fuelling and delivery with the baffle out and that's what I experience when riding the bike.
(http://www.pjwebster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Dyno_02.jpg)
(http://www.pjwebster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Dyno_01.jpg)
(http://www.pjwebster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Dyno_03.jpg)
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Yep, definitely feels stronger at the top end with a properly developed can, baffle out. These companies don't waste all that dyno time just for the hell of it.
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Just ivanised (SO kit) and think the mans a god! Bike is happy at 15-20mph in top gear and still picks up smoothly, even more fun thrashing through the gears, a happy bunny indeed! :D
Still running stock can and need a change, like oval stainless and not too long.
Currently looking at Fuel, Simmi, & Hawk, any opinions appreciated as to which to go for, I believe they're all made in UK so thats a plus to me.
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I'm happy with my oval stainless Fuel can, the noise isn't too bad with the baffle out. They now do a range of sizes and I'm guessing the shorter you go the more noise you'll get.
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250948023168?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250948023168?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)
will alter it to the length you want and hand made delivered within 4 days sounds lovely and do ovals
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Yeah the Simmi's got me, ordered at 375mm long. :D
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Hi mr PieEater, could u explain the graphs u posted please and wot the different colours represent. I know its a dyno chart but i never understood them. Cheers :-)
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Hi mr PieEater, could u explain the graphs u posted please and wot the different colours represent. I know its a dyno chart but i never understood them. Cheers :-)
Each coloured line represents an individual run on the dyno. The top chart shows 3 unique runs with the baffle fitted - the average of the 3 is 125.93BHP. The air/fuel chart shows a dotted red line which is the supposed optimum ratio, the same 3 runs are plotted on this chart with the colours corresponding to the power chart. Where they are under the line the mixture is lean, and over the line it is rich. The middle chart shows another 3 unique runs with the baffle removed the average is 133.97BHP, the air/fuel chart is unfortunately not to the same scale but to my eye it is a lot smoother with less fluctuation between lean and rich. The 3rd chart is a combined report of the 6 individual runs, unfortunately the air/fuel chart is too small so is confused but the Torque chart clearly shows the 3 runs with the baffle out on top (more torque) and the baffle in underneath (less torque) and again to my eyes the charts show a much smoother delivery of power with the baffle out.
Hope that helps.
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It does indeed. Good explanation. Thanks mate.
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I chose it because it looks and sounds better than kosmics
:rollin
In your dreams.
It does have a bit more poke with the baffle out but it's not like I need the extra horses being the size of Dani Pedroso. I have run the SP without the baffle but IMO it's very loud and does seem to attract a bit more attention. But for you Exup I might remove it the next time we're out again. Might even let you have a go. Maybe.
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Oh no... Kosmic's pissed :-)
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I have a delkevic on my FZS600 and didn't realy notice any real performance difference with the baffle out so put it back in, did notice less people shaking fists at me with it in..... :lol
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I have a delkevic on my FZS600 and didn't realy notice any real performance difference with the baffle out so put it back in, did notice less people shaking fists at me with it in..... :lol
I think it's important not to miss the point - we're talking about bikes that have had their fueling system modified by means of an Ivan's kit. I think it's fairly safe to assume that Ivan developed these kits around bikes with free flowing unbaffled exhausts which is why you can see a detrimental effect with a baffle fitted. You can't expect an unmodified bike to perform better with the baffle removed in fact as has already been mentioned this can have a negative impact on fueling and performance.
As for noise I'm not a fan of overly loud exhausts especially in built up areas as I think they do a lot to damage the reputation of bikes and bikers in general. Because of this I generally only remove my baffle when I've planned a decent ride in the countryside and I make a point of trying to be as unobtrusive as possible in built up areas, fortunately my unbaffled Fuel can is not too obnoxious at modest revs.
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When I had my bike dyno'd I asked them to do a set of runs with the baffle in and out of my Fuel end can.
Baffle in - power 127 / torque 71.
Baffle out - power 134 / torque 74.
From the graphs both torque and fueling delivery are better with the baffle out, and the bike definitely feels fitter.
hey there, Pie,
what pipe did you use and any chance pof posting up your dyno graphs?? Thanks
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My 2p worth,
full monty with a blueflame exhaust which has two baffles. all out doesn't feel any different to just having one out (how I use it)
but if I have both in, I really notice, hitting a massive dip in power at about 3000rpm.
I only ever have both in on the way to MOT though, so doesn't really affect me.
This is all seat of pants stuff, no figures or anything to back it up
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I have my bike booked for a dyno run on Thursday. '05 Bike, slip-on kit fitted by Mike and a Scorpion end can. I'll post up the results - with & without baffle - later this week.
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OK, its putting out 125.7 BHP and 71.7 ft-lb at 10,000 rpm. Not bad :-))
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With or without baffle
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With. And the fuelling was spot on - well done Mike!!