Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Dudeofrude on 26 April 2019, 08:33:56 am
-
Don't know how many of you have read this today? But honestly good on them. The police don't care about motorbike theft so this was bound to happen sooner or later
http://news.sky.com/story/police-arent-helping-bikers-reach-breaking-point-as-thefts-increase-11702448 (http://news.sky.com/story/police-arent-helping-bikers-reach-breaking-point-as-thefts-increase-11702448)
-
Just seen it on sky news it's about time something was done about the thieving scum.
-
This shouldn't be necessary, but until the Government actually starts financing the Police properly so they have adequate numbers and resources to do their jobs, things aren't going to get better :(
-
Years ago,I was one of the scum who stole bikes and cars and also breaking and entering houses,I was caught and did a stretch for it and when I came out the father of one of the bikers I stole from came round my house and give me a right good hiding,breaking my nose in the process.I couldn't believe it when he came to the hospital,I actually thought he was going to carry on where he left off,but he asked if he could sit down and went on to tell me how his son saved every penny he had to get the bike I'd nicked and was really upset as was his whole family,these were nice people.I'd never felt so pathetic in all my life and that bloke talking to me did more good than the nick to be honest,a BIG lesson learned. :o
-
Years ago,I was one of the scum who stole bikes and cars and also breaking and entering houses,I was caught and did a stretch for it and when I came out the father of one of the bikers I stole from came round my house and give me a right good hiding,breaking my nose in the process.I couldn't believe it when he came to the hospital,I actually thought he was going to carry on where he left off,but he asked if he could sit down and went on to tell me how his son saved every penny he had to get the bike I'd nicked and was really upset as was his whole family,these were nice people.I'd never felt so pathetic in all my life and that bloke talking to me did more good than the nick to be honest,a BIG lesson learned. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/embarrassed.gif[/url])
Wow, pretty honest post dude.
The bit that stunned me was that he came to the hospital to give you a talking to. :eek Good thing he did. :) Not surprised that did the trick for you.
There have been a number of schemes run for offenders that offer them the option of taking part in a rehabilitation programme that can shorten their sentence but both they and their victim(s) have to agree to take part. I saw a documentary years ago on one such scheme. They focused on young offenders and mainly low-level crime, house breaking, assault etc. Part of the programme included a number of sessions sitting down with their victim(s). Pretty much all the offenders said it was the hardest thing they had ever done. It also helped the victim(s) come to terms of what had happened to them. I can’t remember the figures, but the re-offending rates for those who took part in these schemes was a fraction of the general re-offending rate.
But most of schemes are dead. No funding. Plus it’s almost impossible to get the funding. Nobody is interested that they work. It’s seen as namby pamby stuff, letting folks off the hook etc etc. The popular press slag it off, and well it’s no good for getting elected, so the politicians won’t back it.
-
Nobody is perfect; we all make mistakes; we all deserve a second chance.
The scum bags are the ones who wouldn't change even with a hundred chances.
Coffee is obviously one of the good guys who made a mistake in life, learned from it and became the good guy that was always inside.
It's a shame that, with the lack of proper schemes these days, the chances of these fundamentally good people that made a mistake will never get that second chance.
-
There have been a number of schemes run for offenders that offer them the option of taking part in a rehabilitation programme that can shorten their sentence but both they and their victim(s) have to agree to take part. I saw a documentary years ago on one such scheme. They focused on young offenders and mainly low-level crime, house breaking, assault etc. Part of the programme included a number of sessions sitting down with their victim(s). Pretty much all the offenders said it was the hardest thing they had ever done.
It's called Restorative Justice (https://restorativejustice.org.uk/what-restorative-justice) and has been pretty impressive in reducing recidivism rates.
Unfortunately it doesn't work well with the "Hang them and Flog Them", "Prison Works", "Short, Sharp Shock" mindset of people who think it's just a bunch of bleeding-heart liberals going easy on scum who need the criminality beaten out of them... :(
-
With all due respect i think you might find that "hanging them" does the job pretty effectively.
One of my major pet hates is burglary....sorry Coffee, it just is and always will be.
I'm glad it all worked out for you and to hear that the visit worked well for you is heartwarming and all very nice, but you are one in a million unfortunately in the fact that you had a wake up call that put you on the straight and narrow.
I am not so forgiving.....burglars are the lowest of the low, invading peoples "safe" place and the knock on effect of having your home invaded can last for months and even years.
Apologies for being a bit blunt, but my thoughts will never change on this particular subject, and i will openly admit that i will not tolerate anyone that decides to try their luck stealing what i've earned in my lifetime just because they can't be arsed to earn it themselves.
-
It's called Restorative Justice (https://restorativejustice.org.uk/what-restorative-justice) and has been pretty impressive in reducing recidivism rates.
Unfortunately it doesn't work well with the "Hang them and Flog Them", "Prison Works", "Short, Sharp Shock" mindset of people who think it's just a bunch of bleeding-heart liberals going easy on scum who need the criminality beaten out of them... :(
I might have known it'd all be everyone else's fault :rolleyes
-
I am not so forgiving.....burglars are the lowest of the low, invading peoples "safe" place and the knock on effect of having your home invaded can last for months and even years.
Agree 100%.
And of course this sort of scum tend to prey most on the 'easiest' targets, the old and vulnerable. It's bad enough for anyone, but it can destroy an older persons life.
-
With all due respect i think you might find that "hanging them" does the job pretty effectively.
And whilst we're at it, let's start burning witches as well...
-
I might have known it'd all be everyone else's fault :rolleyes
Of course. Because it's so much simpler to "know that", than actually consider the fact that it might be the result of the focced up system we live with.
No, they're just criminal scum, the lowest of the low, they're not human, they're not nice people, they're not "us"...
All the same old bullshit that has been spouted over the years and the desire to punish people that eventually led to the idea of the "Bloody Code (https://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/bcode.html)" which was clearly so successful in preventing crime that we still do it to this day...
-
Coffee deserves respect for Changing his life round that is a difficult thing to do once you have been a guest of HM university of crime. If any one thinks the courses prisoners do in prison work can I suggest you ask under the freedom of information act for the reoffending rates of those serving a life or a long determinate sentence think it would open many peoples eyes. The only thing prison achieves is to keep offenders locked away and the general public safe from them for the length of there sentence.
-
With all due respect i think you might find that "hanging them" does the job pretty effectively.
And whilst we're at it, let's start burning witches as well...
Fine by me!
-
I might have known it'd all be everyone else's fault :rolleyes
Of course. Because it's so much simpler to "know that", than actually consider the fact that it might be the result of the focced up system we live with.
No, they're just criminal scum, the lowest of the low, they're not human, they're not nice people, they're not "us"...
All the same old bullshit that has been spouted over the years and the desire to punish people that eventually led to the idea of the "Bloody Code (https://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/bcode.html)" which was clearly so successful in preventing crime that we still do it to this day...
So what's your solution to the hardened career criminals to whom it's a way of life and where nothing works to stop the offending?.
-
I'm glad it all worked out for you and to hear that the visit worked well for you is heartwarming and all very nice, but you are one in a million unfortunately in the fact that you had a wake up call that put you on the straight and narrow.
I am not so forgiving.....burglars are the lowest of the low, invading peoples "safe" place and the knock on effect of having your home invaded can last for months and even years.
Isn’t that just the point? Coffee doesn’t have to be one in a million. I can’t speak for Coffee, but it appears to me, like many young offenders Coffee hadn’t given too much thought to the impact on others of his criminal activities. That fella that first vented his anger, then visited him in hospital, perhaps for the first time made Coffee think about the impact of his life and choices on others – “I'd never felt so pathetic in all my life and that bloke talking to me did more good than the nick to be honest, a BIG lesson learned.”
It’s not about forgiving, it’s about responsibility and understanding. It’s not, as I understand it easy, it’s harder for all to face up to matters rather thanjust punish, condemn and bottle it all up – that’s for both perpetrators and victims.
Above all, it’s about making sure it doesn’t happen to others. I neither want my house broken into, or whatever, and nor do I want to see potentially decent young people throw their futures away.
And yeah, thanks again to Coffee for his honest contribution to this thread.
-
For every one that's like coffee there's hundreds it would have made not jot of difference to. I know that from 30 odd years experience seeing the same faces returning to prison time after time. All the offending behaviour courses, education, work done by psychologists, doesn't appear to work it is undertaken by inmates in the main to gain early release or in the case of life sentence prisoners, release on life licence. I have no idea what can be done that hasn't already been tried several times over the years. I do have sympathy for the victims and the families of offenders but we all have to make choices most of us choose the right path and not to commit crime.
-
For every one that's like coffee there's hundreds it would have made not jot of difference to. I know that from 30 odd years experience seeing the same faces returning to prison time after time. All the offending behaviour courses, education, work done by psychologists, doesn't appear to work it is undertaken by inmates in the main to gain early release or in the case of life sentence prisoners, release on life licence. I have no idea what can be done that hasn't already been tried several times over the years. I do have sympathy for the victims and the families of offenders but we all have to make choices most of us choose the right path and not to commit crime.
Did the offending behaviour courses, education and psychology involve the offender sitting down for a series of face to face sessions with their victim?
The schemes that do this with young offenders were very effective indeed. Most did not re-offend.
-
No idea VNA never worked with young offenders. Most of the offenders I worked with could not do face to face with their victims unless they were dug up.
-
For every one that's like coffee there's hundreds it would have made not jot of difference to. I know that from 30 odd years experience seeing the same faces returning to prison time after time. All the offending behaviour courses, education, work done by psychologists, doesn't appear to work it is undertaken by inmates in the main to gain early release or in the case of life sentence prisoners, release on life licence. I have no idea what can be done that hasn't already been tried several times over the years. I do have sympathy for the victims and the families of offenders but we all have to make choices most of us choose the right path and not to commit crime.
Did the offending behaviour courses, education and psychology involve the offender sitting down for a series of face to face sessions with their victim?
The schemes that do this with young offenders were very effective indeed. Most did not re-offend.
You're making it all sound so fluffy and straightforward.
Has it ever occurred to you that the victim might not want to sit down with someone who's just made their life a misery? In fact the very thought may actually horrify them.
And as for "not re-offending", that could simply just mean they weren't stupid enough to get caught again.
-
You're making it all sound so fluffy and straightforward.
Has it ever occurred to you that the victim might not want to sit down with someone who's just made their life a misery? In fact the very thought may actually horrify them.
And as for "not re-offending", that could simply just mean they weren't stupid enough to get caught again.
Nothing fluffy and straightforward about it.
The scheme depends on both perpetrator and victim agreeing to it.
I mean how else did you think it could work?
-
Has it ever occurred to you that the victim might not want to sit down with someone who's just made their life a misery? In fact the very thought may actually horrify them.
That’s the idea. Most people start young and with petty crime. The idea is to catch them before they turn into fucked up and hardened criminals.
Doesn’t matter anyway. These schemes are few and far between. Nobody wants to fund em. Hollow rhetoric and macho posturing wins more votes than actually putting in place the funding and schemes that effectively cut crime and stop youngsters becoming career criminals.
Hey ho.
-
So what's your solution to the hardened career criminals to whom it's a way of life and where nothing works to stop the offending?.
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Questions' written on it..."
Restorative Justice is, of course, not suitable for all cases. However for RJ to work in the first place, cases have to be passed over to it and there has to be sufficient funding for it to operate.
-
just to clear things up a bit ,I was 16, in fact I had my seventeenth birthday inside and I think because of my youth and a bit of a rough upbringing it made it easier for me to "reform" as it were.I think it would be a lot more difficult for a long term offender or a person who'd been robbing for years to turn himself around.I've always thought that was a turning point in my life,and a few years later meeting and marrying my wonderful wife,I think most of us if we look back in our files will remember certain things that helped us get through rough times.
-
just to clear things up a bit ,I was 16, in fact I had my seventeenth birthday inside and I think because of my youth and a bit of a rough upbringing it made it easier for me to "reform" as it were.I think it would be a lot more difficult for a long term offender or a person who'd been robbing for years to turn himself around.I've always thought that was a turning point in my life,and a few years later meeting and marrying my wonderful wife,I think most of us if we look back in our files will remember certain things that helped us get through rough times.
Well said fella. Top bloke - we all make mistakes.
-
So what's your solution to the hardened career criminals to whom it's a way of life and where nothing works to stop the offending?.
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Questions' written on it..."
Restorative Justice is, of course, not suitable for all cases. However for RJ to work in the first place, cases have to be passed over to it and there has to be sufficient funding for it to operate.
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Answers' (or rather the lack of) written on it...."
-
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Answers' (or rather the lack of) written on it...."
ITYM "Answers that address the topic instead of the straw man argument I tried to use..."
-
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Answers' (or rather the lack of) written on it...."
ITYM "Answers that address the topic instead of the straw man argument I tried to use..."
Yep a politician would be proud of that one Grahamm :lol
-
I had written a rant on this subject, however it's pointless sucking eggs. :)
People DON'T change! There's good reason behind the term "repeat offender". It's in their makeup, their brain is wired that (wrong) way... none of which can be changed! Given an opportunity where they believe they wont get caught... they'd go do it again. All vices the same, burglars, sex offenders, murderers, etc...
Plus the only reason they say they are stopping IS because they got caught... have been exposed... publicly branded.
Once the dust settles they go back to their "old habits" however try to cover their tracks even better, the next time round!...
Ironic, we are on a motorcycle forum discussing our pride and joy with a motorbike thief!... infact it gets better, he'd happily remove the contents of your house at the same time! :lol Great! ...sorry if I also caused offence to any sex offenders reading this too! :evil :foc
-
I had written a rant on this subject, however it's pointless sucking eggs. :)
People DON'T change! There's good reason behind the term "repeat offender". It's in their makeup, their brain is wired that (wrong) way... none of which can be changed! Given an opportunity where they believe they wont get caught... they'd go do it again. All vices the same, burglars, sex offenders, murderers, etc...
Plus the only reason they say they are stopping IS because they got caught... have been exposed... publicly branded.
Once the dust settles they go back to their "old habits" however try to cover their tracks even better, the next time round!...
Ironic, we are on a motorcycle forum discussing our pride and joy with a motorbike thief!... infact it gets better, he'd happily remove the contents of your house at the same time! :lol Great! ...sorry if I also caused offence to any sex offenders reading this too! :evil :foc
Don’t hold back F4celess, just say what you mean fella.
-
Don’t hold back F4celess, just say what you mean fella.
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
-
Beg to differ F4celess I changed after riding Suzukis for best part odd 30 years to Yamahas for the last 16 years. One day I may totally loose the plot and buy a Harley
-
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
Fine, so let's just lock them up for life... no, wait, that's too expensive, let's just hang them insted.
Oh, just a moment, that was tried with the Bloody Code (see my link above) and that didn't work...
-
Don’t hold back F4celess, just say what you mean fella.
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
:lol
-
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
Fine, so let's just lock them up for life... no, wait, that's too expensive, let's just hang them insted.
Oh, just a moment, that was tried with the Bloody Code (see my link above) and that didn't work...
Obviously being hypothetical, how can hanging not work, name me one person who was hanged who committed a crime again? :lol
-
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
Fine, so let's just lock them up for life... no, wait, that's too expensive, let's just hang them insted.
Oh, just a moment, that was tried with the Bloody Code (see my link above) and that didn't work...
Obviously being hypothetical, how can hanging not work, name me one person who was hanged who committed a crime again? :lol
Cant argue with that Darrsi haha
-
Ah well, was briefly an interesting discussion, but hey ho, here come the usual trolls and wind up merchants.
-
Ah well, was briefly an interesting discussion, but hey ho, here come the usual trolls and wind up merchants.
You seriously have the audacity to accuse others of being wind up merchants??? :rollin :rollin :rollin
-
I had written a rant on this subject, however it's pointless sucking eggs. :)
People DON'T change! There's good reason behind the term "repeat offender". It's in their makeup, their brain is wired that (wrong) way... none of which can be changed! Given an opportunity where they believe they wont get caught... they'd go do it again. All vices the same, burglars, sex offenders, murderers, etc...
Plus the only reason they say they are stopping IS because they got caught... have been exposed... publicly branded.
Once the dust settles they go back to their "old habits" however try to cover their tracks even better, the next time round!...
Ironic, we are on a motorcycle forum discussing our pride and joy with a motorbike thief!... infact it gets better, he'd happily remove the contents of your house at the same time! :lol Great! ...sorry if I also caused offence to any sex offenders reading this too! :evil :foc
Everyones entitled to their own opinion,all I can say is I changed, if not stealing from people and causing their lives a misery is changing,are you sure youre as "clean"as youre making out ? or maybe a bit hypocritical ? sorry,Ive got to dash,I just noticed a bloke has left his car open,easy pickings! :lol
-
Just goes to show you can't judge everyone by the same criteria.
I agree that some, if not most, bad-uns will never change now matter how many chances they get and do need locking away
But, like I said previously, we all make mistakes, even the best of us, whether driven by circumstance, environment, upbringing, peer pressure, or similar and should be entitled to a second chance.
Good on you Coffee.
-
Obviously being hypothetical, how can hanging not work, name me one person who was hanged who committed a crime again? :lol
Yawn. Is that the most intelligent comment you can come up with?
Ever read Judge Dredd in 2000AD? In that series, they created a parallel Earth with a character called Judge Death who reasoned that, since all crime was committed by living people, if they killed everyone, there would be no more crime...
-
If someone is convicted of being a serial killer or convicted of more than 1 murder then capital punishment would be a right and just sentence. The chances of wrongful conviction are now unlikely due to modern DNA methods, as I know from experience it is more likely that further charges of murder will be brought against convicted murders with the use of DNA methods Again try using the freedom of information act to find out how many of those convicted of murder reoffend on release 2 how much it costs per week to keep serial killers and those convicted of more than 1 murder in prison you will be horrified. If you still think it's a wrong sentence then I sincerely hope it's not one of your family or friends that becomes there next victim maybe then you would look at it differently.
-
I am all for a mandatory DNA database where a sample of everyone's DNA is on file.
A good deterrent for a lot of first time criminals I would imagine if your chances of getting caught are much higher.
Also help rule out innocent people too.
-
I am all for a mandatory DNA database where a sample of everyone's DNA is on file.
Ooooo a despots dream.
-
Ooooo a despots dream.
Isn't it just. That was my first thought.
-
m[[
[##################/;##//////[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[/ :\########################//////////////////////
sorry about this,my laptop had a button come off and I was trying to fix it while on a post
-
Isn't it just. That was my first thought.
That's weird - something we agree on :lol
-
Obviously being hypothetical, how can hanging not work, name me one person who was hanged who committed a crime again? :lol
Yawn. Is that the most intelligent comment you can come up with?
Ever read Judge Dredd in 2000AD? In that series, they created a parallel Earth with a character called Judge Death who reasoned that, since all crime was committed by living people, if they killed everyone, there would be no more crime...
You're quoting from a comic? :lol
-
You're quoting from a comic? :lol
Nice deflection.
I suggest you look up the word "satire".
Meanwhile, I see the discussion is taking a hard-right turn, so enjoy yourselves planning on turning the country into a fascist state...
-
You're quoting from a comic? :lol
Nice deflection.
I suggest you look up the word "satire".
Meanwhile, I see the discussion is taking a hard-right turn, so enjoy yourselves planning on turning the country into a fascist state...
For the record i have no political connections with any party whatsoever, i can't stand any of them.