Post by: Punkstig on 09 July 2013, 04:00:16 pm
Up until now this would only happen if an officer was present at the time of the offence- you have been forewarned!
Post by: Frosties on 09 July 2013, 04:06:43 pm
Every day i go M4 Jct 10 to Canary Wharf and sit in these boxes just to get past the friggin lycra twats - sick off 'em. They cause more road rage sitting across the whole width of the junction than any other road user!
Not friggin happy >: >: >: >:
Post by: stevierst on 09 July 2013, 05:39:36 pm
Post by: Grahamm on 09 July 2013, 07:33:10 pm
I've been known to cycle up alongside them at the lights and say "Nice bicycle you've got there..."
Post by: dazza on 09 July 2013, 07:50:45 pm
Post by: JZS 600 on 09 July 2013, 08:49:47 pm
Cheers Punkstig.
Post by: pointer2null on 09 July 2013, 09:07:18 pm
Quote
Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times
Note the use of the word "reached". You do not have to stop at the first stop line, but the first stop line you reach when the lights change. So, depending on speed and when they change you could legally stop at the second line.
Post by: Punkstig on 09 July 2013, 09:21:58 pm
Rule 178:QuoteMotorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times
Note the use of the word "reached". You do not have to stop at the first stop line, but the first stop line you reach when the lights change. So, depending on speed and when they change you could legally stop at the second line.
Yes, legally you could and luckily if they tried to charge you you already know there is CCTV evidence to prove you we're in the right-
178Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10, 36(1) & 43(2)
Post by: Arfa on 10 July 2013, 10:04:54 am
Enforcing this via CCTV would be a logistical nightmare. The CCTV would have to synchronised with the traffic lights, to ensure they only snap vehicle crossing the ASL after the lights after turned red. To get a decent view of the ASL/bicycle box would need to be forward facing. Which of course isn't going to catch any motorcyclists. A rear facing camera would be crap as it would be too difficult to ascertain if the front of a vehicle is encroaching the ASL, especially taller cars, and lorries. And again, a motorcycle sat in front of a lorry would be invisible to a rear camera. Which just leaves side on camera, which ain't going to see any number plates. Maybe a multi-camera setup could work, but this would require good manual inspection to match the same bikers in each camera angle.
Post by: Exupnut on 10 July 2013, 10:12:11 am
Post by: alan sherman on 10 July 2013, 10:13:48 am
Bang to rights and £80 down :(
I don't go in that bus lane any more.....
Post by: Punkstig on 10 July 2013, 10:51:21 am
Speaking with other Londoners, I'm not aware of any CCTV currently setup to catch anyone doing this. However coppers and PCSO's have been handing out leaflets to offenders as a pre-warning/awareness type thing. I suspect it will be enforced by the like too.
Enforcing this via CCTV would be a logistical nightmare.
Have you never looked up?
CCTV is everywhere in town and there's barely a meter that isn't covered.
Before we were allowed in bus lanes several of us were cought by CCTV that was facing us simply because they are remote controlled and swivel and zoom (very quickly) to grab the number plate, logistically there is no difference between being caught for bus lanes/ yellow box junctions and bike boxes!
Furthermore this also means there will be many more CCTV cars parked by these junctions.
This is a massive cash cow waiting to be milked.
My main concern isn't the fine- it's the points on license!
Post by: andybesy on 10 July 2013, 11:15:55 am
As a new rider I'm on a 2 year probation and so can only get 6 points before I'm screwed.
Should I really face a ban for two misdemeanour's? Is it that great a safety issue?
After riding through London for the first time this summer I was fine with the traffic, peds, junctions, all the stuff I wanted to be able to concentrate on, but was kinda freaked out by all the CCTV.
Very distracting for someone who is not used to that.
Just to add, I understand London faces unique challenges traffic wise, so I guess the CCTV is required, but I still think the crime needs to fit the punishment!
Andy
Post by: seangee on 10 July 2013, 11:34:17 am
Yeah, fine I can understand, points seems dumb.Agreed. I got done for bus lane in Reading. To this day I don't know how I could have avoided it as the signs only visible once you are in with no way out. But video evidence so it was easier to pay. But no points - and I won't be doing it again.
...
Just to add, I understand London faces unique challenges traffic wise, so I guess the CCTV is required, but I still think the crime needs to fit the punishment!
Andy
Post by: Motorbreath on 10 July 2013, 12:20:43 pm
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4112/1semaforocibeles1.jpg)
Post by: Lawrence on 10 July 2013, 12:51:45 pm
Post by: JZS 600 on 10 July 2013, 01:09:05 pm
Another 2 mins on the journey is better than points and a fine,,,
Post by: Skippernick on 10 July 2013, 01:10:36 pm
Post by: Farjo on 10 July 2013, 01:19:20 pm
As for cash cows, why do motorists always think that any attempt to enforce rules is a cash cow? Drivers complain loudly each time they see a cyclist break a rule then want unfettered ability to do the same.
Post by: Exupnut on 10 July 2013, 02:04:34 pm
They will not be enforced by CCTV, just plod on the spot.
Your quite wrong there farjo. Public carriage, bus companys and courier/haulage companys have all been informed it WILL be enforced by cctv. In fact soon the power that police have to enforce this rule will be taken away from them and be enforced only by cctv like box junctions and illegal turns or driving on restriced roads and bus lanes etc. workin the roads in london day in day out it pays us to be informed.
Post by: Farjo on 10 July 2013, 02:56:17 pm
Post by: MarchRide on 10 July 2013, 03:07:45 pm
Post by: Punkstig on 10 July 2013, 04:31:45 pm
:wall
Post by: seangee on 10 July 2013, 11:10:56 pm
- Most bikes did stop before the first line most of the time. Must have read similar articles cos they don't usually (including me).
- Scooter riders paid no more attention to the lines than they do to red lights, other road users or their mirrors. If you do stop before the first line 20 scoots will jump in front of you. Yes I know that's a generalisation but I ride in London every day and they are the things that frighten me most about it.
- Bicycles mostly ok, a few take the pish. Proper cyclists that is. Much as I like the idea of Boris' bikes many of their occupants don't have a foccin clue.
- Sometimes it's hard. Got an amber and would have had to brake very hard to make the first line. Decided sod it I'll just go. Good job because the cab behind me also went through without braking and so did the van behind him.
- Turning right from Embankment into Northumberland - filtered up slowly and stopped behind the line. Light for cars going straight turned green, still red for right turners. Narrowly missed by a Bentley and a cab, spotted a bus hurtling towards my mirror, crapped meself and moved into the ASL pronto
Post by: Frosties on 11 July 2013, 07:24:41 am
There are cycle lanes along Upper Thames Street, the one in particular is the last section before Southwark Bridge. This cycle lane has dotted lines so live dotted chevrons I use it. Trouble is, when it comes to the Southwark Bridge junction it turns into an upside down L bike zone - question is, where the hell do you stop...or do you have to. The first effective solid line is the second one as it doesn't cross the cycle lane.
Don't know if this Sat link view will work
[size=78%]https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=upper+thames+street&ie=UTF-8&hl=en (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=upper+thames+street&ie=UTF-8&hl=en)[/size]
Its the junction of Queen Street and A3211, travelling East (or right to left)
Post by: Punkstig on 11 July 2013, 07:46:01 am
Law RTRA sects 5 & 8
Post by: Punkstig on 11 July 2013, 07:50:49 am
Although we all know in town we use them when we shouldn't (like on upper Thames)
I've been avoiding doing this as I've seen many being pulled for it!
As for your question I can't pinpoint from the top of my head the markings- but clarify which way as riding east would be left to right
Right to left is heading west!
Post by: Frosties on 11 July 2013, 09:02:51 am
We shouldn't be riding in any cycle lanes solid line or broken, only enter a cycle lane with a broken lane to avoid an accident!
Although we all know in town we use them when we shouldn't (like on upper Thames)
I've been avoiding doing this as I've seen many being pulled for it!
As for your question I can't pinpoint from the top of my head the markings- but clarify which way as riding east would be left to right
Right to left is heading west!
You're right...travelling West - was up at 5am!
As far as I knew, a dotted line meant you can enter the lane (as it is leading up to the junction) and use it as you can a chevroned area with dotted lines. However, I think I've just been proved wrong. I never use a lane when its a solid line.
If you've seen riders being pulled for riding inside a dotted line then I'm going to have to learn to adjust to this one also.
Christ I hate London but it's where the work is :'(
Post by: Punkstig on 11 July 2013, 10:00:30 am
These are provided as a safe area for vehicles turning right and also to avoid blocking flowing traffic.
Same as the broken line cycle lanes they should only be used only if completely necessary!
Don't get me wrong, in the past I've used the cycle lanes (but don't anymore) and I currently still use chevron areas to filter down, so I'm not giving a holier than thou statement, I'm just letting you know if you see police about best avoid them!
When I do use them I try to pay special attention to all vehicles I'm passing, this is one of the instances where if you are involved in a collision its more likely to be a 50/50 fault
What annoys me is those drivers that don't use those areas for their purpose and do block flowing traffic when they're turning right- dumbfocs!
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 11 July 2013, 10:03:57 am
Post by: Frosties on 11 July 2013, 10:47:16 am
Sorry to say this but we shouldn't use those chevron areas either (yes the ones with broken lines!)
These are provided as a safe area for vehicles turning right and also to avoid blocking flowing traffic.
Same as the broken line cycle lanes they should only be used only if completely necessary!
Don't get me wrong, in the past I've used the cycle lanes (but don't anymore) and I currently still use chevron areas to filter down, so I'm not giving a holier than thou statement, I'm just letting you know if you see police about best avoid them!
When I do use them I try to pay special attention to all vehicles I'm passing, this is one of the instances where if you are involved in a collision its more likely to be a 50/50 fault
What annoys me is those drivers that don't use those areas for their purpose and do block flowing traffic when they're turning right- dumbfocs!
Jesus Punkstig, you're just a big meanie.....next you'll be telling me it's wrong to lean down on BMW and Merc side mirrors :lol
Post by: Pat on 11 July 2013, 12:36:15 pm
This already happens in London with box-junctions & illegal turn offences having been decriminalised a few years ago, they are now monitored by local council & TFL CCTV & transgressors are sent £60 penalty fines with no points.
So if you are nabbed by plod in a cycle box you can get points & a fine but not if caught by CCTV.
Also, when I did Bikesafe with the Met a month ago, the coppers there made a point of explaining that it was perfectly legal to filter using chevroned bits of road if enclosed by broken white lines & actively encouraged their use by bikers as it's often the safest way to do it.
Post by: richfzs on 11 July 2013, 12:41:58 pm
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 11 July 2013, 12:46:03 pm
Yep, won my case (well, 70/30) when knocked off filtering over such chevrons. However, there is of course another risk here - because it's an area not used often, there's often a lot of road debris there so you can easily pick up a puncture.
Also, when I did Bikesafe with the Met a month ago, the coppers there made a point of explaining that it was perfectly legal to filter using chevroned bits of road if enclosed by broken white lines & actively encouraged their use by bikers as it's often the safest way to do it.
Post by: Lawrence on 11 July 2013, 12:46:31 pm
Post by: Exupnut on 11 July 2013, 01:13:48 pm
So if you are nabbed by plod in a cycle box you can get points & a fine but not if caught by CCTV.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong again. If u read the leaflet or spoke to plod u would understand we WILL be getting 3pts aswell.
Post by: seangee on 11 July 2013, 02:08:05 pm
Post by: JZS 600 on 15 August 2013, 08:10:22 pm
http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/drivers-and-cyclists-warned-of-fines-as-tfl-clamps-down-on-road-safety/201326839 (http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/drivers-and-cyclists-warned-of-fines-as-tfl-clamps-down-on-road-safety/201326839)
Post by: Lawrence on 15 August 2013, 10:02:37 pm
Quote
In addition to stepping up enforcement on motorists, cyclists who jump read lights are also being warned to change their behaviour or incur a £30 fine.How, if they've just jumped a red and buggered off down the road, are you going to fine them?
Post by: seangee on 16 August 2013, 09:14:43 am
Have noticed an increase in the number of two wheelers being pulled over in the last few weeks. Obviously an educational / safety campaign in progress. (How dare you suggest funding is needed for the policepersons summer ball).
Really large flock of bike police at the embankment end of Northumberland this morning pulling bikes over this morning. Cyclists were included in the campaign, although I don't understand how they could enforce it - especially if they are just dishing out warnings..
Hmmm - wonders if its time to unwrap the shiny baffle from the bubble wrap it was shipped in and insert into appropriate orifice
Post by: stevierst on 16 August 2013, 09:20:47 am
Post by: red98 on 16 August 2013, 09:38:20 am
Post by: Punkstig on 16 August 2013, 10:16:20 am
this was all over the news last night....with footage in london showing cyclists in blue cycle lanes but also a lot more outside it :eek :eek :eek .....works both ways cyclists ;)
Don't get me started, they want roads to be made safer for them- completely understandable, but the amount of cyclists I see out of these lanes is unbelievable, then there's the spanking new cycle super highways that at junctions have their own set of lights so as not to get squished by cars but the majority still don't stop on a red at them!
Post by: Chillum on 16 August 2013, 10:47:34 am
I was travelling home yesterday and some of the lanes round here are *just* wide enough to get two cars past each other. Came up to a couple of cyclists, one was about a foot or so from the edge of the road - no problem. The other one was in the middle of the road. I initially thought he was alongside his mate and would move up and in when he heard me, but as I got closer I realised that he was about 15ft in front of his mate and just riding in the middle of the road.
He didn't move as I approached, so I beeped my horn (didn't lean on it or anything, just a bipbip you deaf foccer). He turns round and promptly didn't move anywhere. Since we were running out of visible space for me to get past him without risking something coming round a bend up ahead I decided to squeeze past him, probably left him with about 6 inches between his elbows and my mirror, my rhs wheels were on the grass verge on the other side. I did it reasonable slowly as well, just in case.
As I got past him and checked my rear view to make sure he was still upright and everything I saw him gesturing quite rudely it has to be said. Although it made my blood boil for a second or two I resisted the urge to mow the fucker down and drive back forth over his limp body just to make sure :) I just don't understand why it has to be an 'us and them' situation. It will all end in tears for someone.
Since mentioning this to a neighbour he then told me to watch out for a monthly 'moon ride' that goes on round here where cyclists go out on a night time ride (on these same little roads) and often there are several who don't wear hi-viz or use lights - so be careful. He then told me how many there were - about 100! (and this guy is a super-keen cyclist but seems quite reasonable about the whole car/cyclist situation).
Post by: red98 on 16 August 2013, 11:25:50 am
Looks like it's time for me to invest in a new copy of the highway code, as half these road markings weren't around when I last read it - as for London, nope, too scary for me, I'll stick to the tube...
that reminds me...........two brothers on there way to the sperm bank,one came on the bus the other missed the tube :rollin :rollin :rollin
Post by: Slaninar on 16 August 2013, 03:15:00 pm
In Serbia, 2 biggest cities are CCTV covered and cameras are programmed to automatically snap plates of cars using bus lanes, running red lights, while it takes human operators to spot cars not letting pedestrians cross at zebra crossings.
Fortunately, bikes are somehow not big enough to trigger those, and license plates beneath back wheels are still looked over by cops (though they tell you to fix it... every time...).
Gangsta' style:
(http://www.dodaj.rs/f/E/U3/4IVDSZ2o/tablica.jpg)
So no speeding tickets, no stopping at police stops, motorway pay tolls (just ride past the ramp) etc.
Also, the traffic CCTV used to use OCR for automatic reading of plates. Not sure about today, my info is couple of years old. There was a way of fooling the OCR software by not damaging or painting over numbers. Just using some dark paint/stickers next to numbers/letters. Since the algorithm used the amount of "black" (among other things) to recognize numbers and letters. Haven't tested it live, though.
Post by: Grahamm on 16 August 2013, 04:26:03 pm
Don't get me started, they want roads to be made safer for them- completely understandable, but the amount of cyclists I see out of these lanes is unbelievable
1) Cyclists are not *required* to use cycle lanes.
2) Cycle lanes (at least the ones down here) are very often not swept by road sweepers, meaning that all the crap and debris end up in them and it's very easy to puncture a cycle tyre.
3) Not all cycle lanes are actually of any foccing *use* to cyclists. Some of them are completely useless or can put you in a bad position where you either get traffic turning across you or you have to try to get out into fast moving traffic coming past you in order that you can turn right.
4) I've often seen cars and vans etc parked in cycle lanes, again meaning when I'm cycling I have to try to get past the obstruction and the best way to do that is to assertively position myself (as I'm allowed to do by law) out of the cycle lane to stop someone trying to squeeze past me in a dangerous way like Chillum describes above because he couldn't be bothered to wait until after the bend to pass the cyclist.
Highway Code Paragraphs 154 - 155 (https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/general-advice-144-to-158)
Post by: Chillum on 16 August 2013, 04:37:23 pm
someone trying to squeeze past me in a dangerous way like Chillum describes above because he couldn't be bothered to wait until after the bend to pass the cyclist.
Highway Code Paragraphs 154 - 155 (https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/general-advice-144-to-158)
I had a look at that code and I can't see where I broke it. I was very careful to avoid him, and I gave him as much space as he allowed. I notice you didn't mention anything about the cyclist being in the middle of the road. I suppose you would have me tailing behind the cyclist for the whole 10 mile stretch?
Post by: alan sherman on 16 August 2013, 04:53:05 pm
But you know that are just trying to wind people up aren't you ;)
Post by: Chillum on 16 August 2013, 05:24:06 pm
If it ain't safe to pass, don't pass.It was perfectly safe for me to pass.
But you know that are just trying to wind people up aren't you ;)
Shhh!
Post by: esetest on 16 August 2013, 05:35:35 pm
Post by: Grahamm on 16 August 2013, 06:03:08 pm
I had a look at that code and I can't see where I broke it. I was very careful to avoid him, and I gave him as much space as he allowed. I notice you didn't mention anything about the cyclist being in the middle of the road.
Highway Code Paragraph 163 (https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169)
163 Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
[...]
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 213 and 214 to 215).
Quote
I suppose you would have me tailing behind the cyclist for the whole 10 mile stretch?
Highway Code Paragraph 169
169 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
But just because you don't like the way he's riding, doesn't mean that you have the right to drive like a twunt.
PS
Quote
It was perfectly safe for me to pass.
Obviously he felt differently. I wonder how you would have felt had it been you?
Post by: stevierst on 16 August 2013, 06:09:04 pm
Shame the Police can't put the same effort into the drug dealing /taking scumbag neighbours of mine , who have taken to sitting in there front garden smoking weed , throwing their empty cans of lager all over the street , playing loud music and shouting there heads off till 2 in the morning , when I have to get up for work in the morning . I don't blame the Police , they do want the government tells them.Your mixing road traffic and criminal law there bud, the cops have seperate departments for each of these, and there's very little crossover between them. Traffic cops tend to stay on the roads, response cops deal with the joint smoking bell-end.
Call your community beat manager and tell him about your neighbour. He'll sort it!
Post by: Chillum on 16 August 2013, 07:50:46 pm
I had a look at that code and I can't see where I broke it. I was very careful to avoid him, and I gave him as much space as he allowed. I notice you didn't mention anything about the cyclist being in the middle of the road.
Highway Code Paragraph 163 (https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169)
163 Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
[...]
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 213 and 214 to 215).QuoteI suppose you would have me tailing behind the cyclist for the whole 10 mile stretch?
Highway Code Paragraph 169
169 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
But just because you don't like the way he's riding, doesn't mean that you have the right to drive like a twunt.
PSQuoteIt was perfectly safe for me to pass.
Obviously he felt differently. I wonder how you would have felt had it been you?
Well to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have been riding in the middle of the road in the first place. As for him feeling differently, I couldn't actually care less what he felt.
I drove about 6 inches into the rough on the opposite side and made my way past him at a sensible pace, keeping an eye on him at all times to make sure I wasn't going to get too close.
Please Mr perfect, could you inform me as to the correct way to resolve the dilemma of not wanting to drive at bicycle speeds for 10 miles?
Post by: Punkstig on 16 August 2013, 07:51:53 pm
Don't get me started, they want roads to be made safer for them- completely understandable, but the amount of cyclists I see out of these lanes is unbelievable
1) Cyclists are not *required* to use cycle lanes.
2) Cycle lanes (at least the ones down here) are very often not swept by road sweepers, meaning that all the crap and debris end up in them and it's very easy to puncture a cycle tyre.
Highway Code Paragraphs 154 - 155 (https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/general-advice-144-to-158)
No, I am talking about cycle lanes in London where they are seperated from the road by a kerb in order for vulnerable road users to be able to use them safely,
Now, because of these physically seperated areas the roads are now narrower,
A cyclist using the road in these circumstances is a danger to themselves and others!
All these videos I see on youtube from cyclists riding dominantly when it comes to roads narrowing I completely back the cyclist, but when they do it for no reason other than to block the road they have no reason to complain,
Sharing the road between push bikes and motorised vehicles is a 2 way thing!
Post by: Grahamm on 18 August 2013, 12:54:14 am
Please Mr perfect, could you inform me as to the correct way to resolve the dilemma of not wanting to drive at bicycle speeds for 10 miles?
But you know that are just trying to wind people up aren't you ;)
Shhh!
:lol
Post by: Grahamm on 18 August 2013, 12:55:48 am
No, I am talking about cycle lanes in London where they are seperated from the road by a kerb in order for vulnerable road users to be able to use them safely,
I'm not familiar with those. I've seen the blue tarmac ones, but none that are actually physically separate.
Post by: Farjo on 18 August 2013, 02:25:16 am
Here's a London cycle lane, which is typical of segregated cycle lanes around the country. If you cycle on the road then you have right of way when approaching side turns. However as shown in the video when on a segregated cycle lane the cyclist has to give way.
Segregated cycle lanes, in my experience, are there to keep cyclists off the road rather than to protect them.
Post by: Slaninar on 18 August 2013, 05:57:05 am
New bike lane Bethnal Green Road ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3sLrY6a1s#ws[/url])
Here's a London cycle lane, which is typical of segregated cycle lanes around the country. If you cycle on the road then you have right of way when approaching side turns. However as shown in the video when on a segregated cycle lane the cyclist has to give way.
Segregated cycle lanes, in my experience, are there to keep cyclists off the road rather than to protect them.
In my country whenever a cycle lane crosses a road, the drivers are supposed to give way... which they seldom do unfortunately. For me, on a bicycle, it has been a lot safer riding on the road with traffic. However, by law, we are forced to use bicycle lanes/tracks when they exist by the road we are traveling... which is never enforced by cops.
Post by: Grahamm on 18 August 2013, 02:23:53 pm
Segregated cycle lanes, in my experience, are there to keep cyclists off the road rather than to protect them.
I entirely agree with you.
There are some like that in Portsmouth and, like that one, you get pedestrians (or other obstructions) in the cycle lane and if you're cycling, every time you get to a road, you have to waste energy slowing or even stopping to let traffic cross, then expend more energy getting moving again which means you are not cycling in the most efficient manner (which is to lose as little momentum as possible).
As such, I simply do not bother using those cycle lanes.
Post by: Exupnut on 18 August 2013, 03:10:08 pm
Post by: Chillum on 18 August 2013, 04:12:08 pm
Please Mr perfect, could you inform me as to the correct way to resolve the dilemma of not wanting to drive at bicycle speeds for 10 miles?But you know that are just trying to wind people up aren't you ;)
Shhh!
:lol
:'( You is not as easy man to troll Graham. Any pointers for future reference? :rolleyes
Post by: Punkstig on 18 August 2013, 05:12:55 pm
Segregated cycle lanes, in my experience, are there to keep cyclists off the road rather than to protect them.
I entirely agree with you.
There are some like that in Portsmouth and, like that one, you get pedestrians (or other obstructions) in the cycle lane and if you're cycling, every time you get to a road, you have to waste energy slowing or even stopping to let traffic cross, then expend more energy getting moving again which means you are not cycling in the most efficient manner (which is to lose as little momentum as possible).
As such, I simply do not bother using those cycle lanes.
If you want to ride a push bike and not waste energy then go on a velodrome, twats use this as an excuse to jump red lights and it is not acceptable, public roads have junctions and hazards to avoid, therefore you will waste energy many times on a journey, you have a choice for your mode of transport, don't make shit excuses to make up for it.
Do you moan about wasting fuel on your bike by slowing down to stop at junctions?
when on the road I'm as considerate as possible to other road users around me, selfish tossers should be whipped!
Post by: Farjo on 18 August 2013, 07:03:17 pm
cycleLane |
Now imagine you are cycling along this road and a car is approaching behind you, and it wants to turn left into that side road. If you were cycling along the road then you would have right of way and the car should wait until you went past (but often they'll accelerate and cut you up). However if you're on this cycle lane then you have to stop for the car.
This is what I'm saying - this type of cycle lane are a dream for anti-cyclist road planners as they can tick the "cycling provision provided" box and also keep thing out of the way of cars.
Post by: Grahamm on 18 August 2013, 07:12:28 pm
If you want to ride a push bike and not waste energy then go on a velodrome, twats use this as an excuse to jump red lights and it is not acceptable, public roads have junctions and hazards to avoid, therefore you will waste energy many times on a journey, you have a choice for your mode of transport, don't make shit excuses to make up for it.
Let me guess, you don't regularly ride a bicycle... :rolleyes
Post by: Slaninar on 18 August 2013, 07:17:00 pm
If you want to ride a push bike and not waste energy then go on a velodrome, twats use this as an excuse to jump red lights and it is not acceptable, public roads have junctions and hazards to avoid, therefore you will waste energy many times on a journey, you have a choice for your mode of transport, don't make shit excuses to make up for it.
Let me guess, you don't regularly ride a bicycle... :rolleyes
While on a bicycle:
a yield sign = what it says
a stop sign = a yield sign
a red light = a yield sign
a green light = a yield sign
For safe riding that is.
Post by: Punkstig on 18 August 2013, 11:26:31 pm
U can still use broken cycle lanes to filter.I don't believe you can bud, a broken cycle lane points to wether you can stop to load/unload, not drive along it, unless there is a sign with designated times on it (like bus lanes) like the junction of Holborn and Grays inn heading west along Holborn!
Post by: Punkstig on 18 August 2013, 11:31:08 pm
If you want to ride a push bike and not waste energy then go on a velodrome, twats use this as an excuse to jump red lights and it is not acceptable, public roads have junctions and hazards to avoid, therefore you will waste energy many times on a journey, you have a choice for your mode of transport, don't make shit excuses to make up for it.
Let me guess, you don't regularly ride a bicycle... :rolleyes
Not since I stopped BMX racing at 13, and at that age I still knew to ride properly on the road!
Post by: Exupnut on 19 August 2013, 04:54:19 am
A broken cycle line or ANY dotted line meeans it can be crossed. Holborn grays inn is SOLID. U will never see an comply sign on broken lines.U can still use broken cycle lanes to filter.I don't believe you can bud, a broken cycle lane points to wether you can stop to load/unload, not drive along it, unless there is a sign with designated times on it (like bus lanes) like the junction of Holborn and Grays inn heading west along Holborn!
If ya dont know ask met traffic
Post by: Punkstig on 19 August 2013, 10:20:59 am
I see legally it can be used but out of principal that its there for cyclists I stay out of them.A broken cycle line or ANY dotted line meeans it can be crossed. Holborn grays inn is SOLID. U will never see an comply sign on broken lines.U can still use broken cycle lanes to filter.I don't believe you can bud, a broken cycle lane points to wether you can stop to load/unload, not drive along it, unless there is a sign with designated times on it (like bus lanes) like the junction of Holborn and Grays inn heading west along Holborn!
Yes, Holborn is solid, but so are bus lanes!
That one has a time of operation plate so can be used, its the only one I know of in the city with a time plate, have you seen any others Exup?
Post by: Grahamm on 19 August 2013, 11:09:54 am
U can still use broken cycle lanes to filter.I don't believe you can bud,
Highway Code Paragraph 140:
Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable. You MUST NOT park in any cycle lane whilst waiting restrictions apply.
Law RTRA sects 5 & 8
It's a "Do Not" not a "Must Not".
Post by: Grahamm on 19 August 2013, 11:16:58 am
Let me guess, you don't regularly ride a bicycle... :rolleyes
Not since I stopped BMX racing at 13, and at that age I still knew to ride properly on the road!
Right, so you were young and fit had plenty of energy to spare, so starting and stopping repeatedly wasn't so much of a problem. But efficient cycling (especially when you're a bit older) means you don't want to waste energy, so you want to minimise the number of times this happens.
(And please note, by the way, that I am *NOT* advocating jumping red lights and all that sort of crap. I despite cyclists who do that sort of thing because it allows people in internet discussion forums to tar all cyclists with the same brush, even when we ride sensibly)
But the point is that if a council is going to provide cycle lanes, they should actually be *useful* to cyclists, instead of just being a box-ticking exercise or designed to keep bicycles out of the way of cars.
Post by: JZS 600 on 19 August 2013, 12:06:59 pm
Plenty of cops around though to sort it out but the bloke on the Triumph had a helmet cam on and he was abusing the cyclist and kicking his bike. I'm pretty sure that won't go down well