Author Topic: advice on crash responsibility (Read 25409 times)

AndyL · « **on:** 30 January 2014, 05:20:24 pm »

Hi,

I had a bump on my last bike in November.
I was filtering past stationary traffic using the other lane as it was empty, a car pulled out of a side road.
I came to a stop but this has been disputed by the car driver. It's bent the front disc on my bike and an unspecified amount of damage to the car (who was turning right)

The insurance company was going to settle against me using Powell Vs Moody

They have refused to consider the Davis Vs Schogrin on the grounds that the situation is different though they did accept Leesen Vs Bevis and have now agreed to settle 50/50

There are no witnesses to use so I can't prove I cam to a full stop. I did point out that the trend in the case law was more in the riders favor the the previous case law and while she agreed that was the trend she said the specific circumstances are different.

The damage to my bike is minor (2nd hand parts for an SR125 are cheap) but I understand this will affect premiums in future for both bikes and cars (I'm hoping to pass my car test soon).

Has anyone used Davis Vs Schogrin for an incident at a junction?

darrsi · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 January 2014, 05:27:48 pm »

Just for the record, 'cos i didn't have a clue!

http://www.boltburdonkemp.co.uk/services-bolt-burdon-kemp-no-win-no-fee-solicitors/personal-injury-bolt-burdon-kemp-no-win-no-fee-solicitors/motorbike-accident-compensation-claims/motorbike%20accidents%20the%20law%20on%20the%20road.aspx

ChristoT · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 January 2014, 05:32:17 pm »

If it's any consolation, when I bought insurance on my car, I had to report my big smash up from Spetember. And whilst it may load your bike premium like a bitch, for cars, specify it was a BIKE claim - according to the Admiral agent I bought my insurance from, whilst they need to know about it, it doesn't load the premium.

fazersharp · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 January 2014, 05:49:24 pm »

Quote

I was filtering past stationary traffic using the other lane as it was empty, a car pulled out of a side road.
I came to a stop but this has been disputed by the car driver. It's bent the front disc on my bike and an unspecified amount of damage to the car (who was turning right)

So were you therefore on the wrong side of the road
I did you stop to let him out
Still not clear to me on this bit

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:03:47 pm »

A paint diagram would be useful Andy, if you're after opinions/help. Hope it works out ok. FWIW, I was able to shoot down all previous case studies offered against me as being different to the actual circumstances of my last accident. But as Fazersharp says, difficult to say without a better description/diagram.

AndyL · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:30:26 pm »

I'll draw up a diagram from a google maps image.

When I came to a stop my wheels were just on the left of the white line. The car driver is claiming I failed to stop so it sounds like the insurance companies are assuming we were both moving.

I'd looked at a quote for the 125 I was planning to keep for the bad weather and as I have transferred the no claims to the fazer (I can't have a multi bike policy as I don't have a garage) it didn't make a difference. It's the cost of a new driver in a car going up that's really scary.

midden · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:43:49 pm »

Quote from: AndyL on 30 January 2014, 06:30:26 pm

I'll draw up a diagram from a google maps image.

When I came to a stop my wheels were just on the left of the white line. The car driver is claiming I failed to stop so it sounds like the insurance companies are assuming we were both moving.

I'd looked at a quote for the 125 I was planning to keep for the bad weather and as I have transferred the no claims to the fazer (I can't have a multi bike policy as I don't have a garage) it didn't make a difference. It's the cost of a new driver in a car going up that's really scary.

Opt for having black box in car for the 12 mths. Seriously reduces premium.

ChristoT · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:47:20 pm »

Oddly enough my cheapest quote wasn't black box!

JZS 600 · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:52:59 pm »

But was your ride on time?

ChristoT · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:55:26 pm »

Quote from: JZS 600 on 30 January 2014, 06:52:59 pm

But was your ride on time?

Eh?

JZS 600 · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:59:02 pm »

http://uk.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=AwrSbl.en.pSGnwAQgpLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTE1MGp1cXQ0BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1NNRVVLMjdfODg-/SIG=12097uht7/EXP=1391136798/**http%3a//www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=4lOb799cTxM

JZS 600 · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 January 2014, 06:59:44 pm »

It must be a generation thing,,,,,

JZS 600 · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 January 2014, 07:00:37 pm »


Black Box Ride on Time [ 1989 ] HD version

darrsi · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 January 2014, 07:29:59 pm »

Quote from: midden on 30 January 2014, 06:43:49 pm

Quote from: AndyL on 30 January 2014, 06:30:26 pm
I'll draw up a diagram from a google maps image.

When I came to a stop my wheels were just on the left of the white line. The car driver is claiming I failed to stop so it sounds like the insurance companies are assuming we were both moving.

I'd looked at a quote for the 125 I was planning to keep for the bad weather and as I have transferred the no claims to the fazer (I can't have a multi bike policy as I don't have a garage) it didn't make a difference. It's the cost of a new driver in a car going up that's really scary.
Opt for having black box in car for the 12 mths. Seriously reduces premium.

They generally are cheaper but after that first year drop them like a stone.
My mate got stitched right up on the 2nd year, they lowered his mileage allowance to what he did the previous year then they charge per mile if you go over it.
Just for the record as well, if you go were to be a devil and go over 100mph the sat nav picks up on it and your insurance is invalid straight away!

AndyL · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 January 2014, 10:37:14 pm »

Not at 20 posts yet and already had all sorts of good advice.

I was filtering past the cars going in the direction of car A past someone that left a gap. She came out of the side road to turn right (direction of car B) and clipped my front wheel with hers (my mudguard ended up in her wheel arch).

She is claiming she came to a full stop while I say I did. I was travelling at slow speed (1st gear on a SR125) before the accident and she was pulling away. I was roughly in line with the car that had left the gap when the collision happened.

I'm not sure if it matters but it was around 08:15 in November so light. It wasn't raining but the road surface was wet. I had dipped beam lights on (wearing full gear, silver helmet and reflective sections on the jacket).

Thanks for your time.
Andrew

fazersharp · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 January 2014, 11:16:55 pm »

So from your extra info and picture, it looks like you were overtaking on zig zags the cars were stationary because they had stoped to let the woman turn right, you didnt see her and she didnt see you untill it was too late. (i would take the 50/50)
Sorry

AndyL · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 January 2014, 11:43:59 pm »

I think I will. I'm not sure if I'd quite got to the zig zag lines but given that

"The courts view remains fairly constant. If you are filtering and collide with a vehicle turning out of or into a junction, then you are likely to be found party at fault. The degree of fault and in turn, the amount of compensation you will lose, will depend on the specifics facts of the case. The court will also take into consideration the speed at which you were travelling."
http://www.bgtbikersolicitors.co.uk/case_law.html#filtering_update

I'm going to try and think of the 50/50 as a better option then what my insurance company were planning before I spoke to them.

I did find out that the driver's insurance wrote to me and mentioned that their excess is £295 my quote came to £250 I'm tempted to phone them to find out how much their repairs will cost and see if we can come to an arrangement. When I phoned her to inform her the bike was damaged she asked to call me back. It was her partner, given that he claimed to have a witness which they have never offered I'm a bit uneasy about dealing with them directly.

fazersharp · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 January 2014, 11:52:59 pm »

Any witness in the car do not count as they are connected persons --- is what I always thought
See what other focers say about things

AndyL · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 January 2014, 12:06:57 am »

He was claiming anothor driver (the guy who left the gap) had come forward. I was at the scene for longer so I knew that was unlikely but it was never mentioned anywhere official.

midden · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 January 2014, 04:56:31 am »

[quote author=AndyL link=topic=11
I did find out that the driver's insurance wrote to me and mentioned that their excess is £295 my quote came to £250 I'm tempted to phone them to find out how much their repairs will cost and see if we can come to an arrangement. When I phoned her to inform her the bike was damaged she asked to call me back. It was her partner, given that he claimed to have a witness which they have never offered I'm a bit uneasy about dealing with them directly.
[/quote]

I'd be inclined to not deal direct leave it with the insurance. It could backfire on you and regardless of whether either of you take a payout from insurance you've lost your nc bonus because a claim form has been put through. Atleast that's what happened to me some years ago.
Go with the 50/50

Punkstig · « **Reply #20 on:** 31 January 2014, 08:00:37 am »

Quote from: fazersharp on 30 January 2014, 11:16:55 pm

So from your extra info and picture, it looks like you were overtaking on zig zags

You're allowed to overtake on zig zags, it's the vehicle closest to the crossing that you're not allowed to overtake!

With regards to having discussions with their insurer-
It doesn't matter what the other party's excess is to you, they have agreed a contract with their insurers, you have agreed one with yours!

If they have disclosed they have a witness then legally they have to send you a copy of their statement!

AndyL · « **Reply #21 on:** 31 January 2014, 08:03:58 am »

It was my insurance that said if we now agree to settle privately I can keep my no claims. They even offered to let me cover their portion and keep the discount. I'll do a few quotes, if it's only a small amount I may do that.

Looks like some underwriters will car about the bike crash and others won't so I might be ok.

fazersharp · « **Reply #22 on:** 31 January 2014, 08:30:57 am »

Quote from: Punkstig on 31 January 2014, 08:00:37 am

You're allowed to overtake on zig zags, it's the vehicle closest to the crossing that you're not allowed to overtake!

I knew this came up before but couldnt remember who or where.

So I always thought you couldnt. where in the highway code is this

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #23 on:** 31 January 2014, 09:05:50 am »

50/50 at best I would say

Punkstig · « **Reply #24 on:** 31 January 2014, 02:36:12 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 31 January 2014, 08:30:57 am

Quote from: Punkstig on 31 January 2014, 08:00:37 am
You're allowed to overtake on zig zags, it's the vehicle closest to the crossing that you're not allowed to overtake!
I knew this came up before but couldnt remember who or where.

So I always thought you couldnt. where in the highway code is this

Rule 191

I was the only one to know this on the bikesafe day (apart from the coppers running it obviously!)