Author Topic: Rough warm up? (Read 11584 times)

richfzs · « **Reply #50 on:** 05 March 2013, 10:42:25 pm »

Cheers unfazed, interesting stuff.

Darrsi, loosening the screw is like opening a valve, and the fuel drain out a different hole, not the hole the screw itself turns through. Difficult to explain, but it'll be obvious when you look at the bottom of the cards...

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unfazed · « **Reply #51 on:** 06 March 2013, 12:01:06 am »

A picture tells a thousand words

You can push a piece of transparent tube onto the protruding part of the drain hole and drain it into a glass jar if your really fussy, awkward to push on Carb number 3 due to the proximity of the starter motor.

darrsi · « **Reply #52 on:** 06 March 2013, 07:07:06 am »

Oh that's great, i honestly didn't know those drainage points even existed, i'm always learning every day at work but learning stuff about the bike seems just that little bit more rewarding.

I'll see if i can find some plastic tubing at work to do things properly rather than start squirting petrol everywhere.

Theoretically this is all sounding like a very possible cause of my woes, so i'll probably wait until Saturday to do it so the bike can sit still overnight, 'cos i presume once you start it then any moisture will be spread all over the place, i must remember to not start it to get it out of the garage though!

And you're right, the pictures do speak a thousand words, very helpful, cheers.

Buzz · « **Reply #53 on:** 06 March 2013, 08:22:56 am »

I just hold a shot glass under the drain hole and turn the screw - don't need to poke anything, seems to be the perfect for the about the amount of Petrol which comes out plus it fits perfectly under the carbs.

packie · « **Reply #54 on:** 06 March 2013, 08:59:09 am »

I use a long tube running into a white dish situated off the bike. I use a white dish as it makes it easier to see any dirt that might be in the petrol too.

Using a tube is less akward that having something put under it like a glass shot especially if you want to drain and flush through a lot more than whats in the float bowl. I got dirty petrol that was so fine that it by-passed the filter on a Bandit 600. There was a lot of it there and it didn't help matters that the bike was sitting idle for 3 months after a crash. It took almost 200-300mls of drainage off of each carb before coming clean again. With a tube, I could just let it run off freely into the dish while inspecting it until the petrol was clean.

And of course, it goes without saying that don't forget to perform this task when the engine is cold to avoid buring your hands off a hot engine or spilling any petrol on it..........and NO

!!!!

darrsi · « **Reply #55 on:** 06 March 2013, 09:09:33 am »

Right, this morning i tried the full choke method and sure enough it revved into life but while it was revving it was still spluttering for a minute, so this idea of moisture contamination is sounding much more of a good thing to me.
It wasn't your average cold start struggle, it was a similar sound to when you get carb icing.
Then a minute later it was clear and purring quite happily.

red98 · « **Reply #56 on:** 06 March 2013, 09:13:35 am »

my monies still on pilot jets.....worth draining carbs first though

simonm · « **Reply #57 on:** 06 March 2013, 10:04:53 am »

Quote from: darrsi on 06 March 2013, 09:09:33 am

Right, this morning i tried the full choke method and sure enough it revved into life but while it was revving it was still spluttering for a minute, so this idea of moisture contamination is sounding much more of a good thing to me.
It wasn't your average cold start struggle, it was a similar sound to when you get carb icing.
Then a minute later it was clear and purring quite happily.

Definitely worth trying a carb drain :-). Glad it's somewhat improved. It may be worth trying half choke tomorrow if it doesn't seem happy.

I would really recommend you use the choke from cold every time as the bikes are designed for it. It only takes 30 seconds so there isn't any reason not to.

Simon

richfzs · « **Reply #58 on:** 06 March 2013, 10:09:25 am »

Quote from: red98 on 06 March 2013, 09:13:35 am

my monies still on pilot jets.....worth draining carbs first though

Why would it be that, when it's idling fine once warm?

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simonm · « **Reply #59 on:** 06 March 2013, 10:20:57 am »

Quote from: red98 on 06 March 2013, 09:13:35 am

my monies still on pilot jets.....worth draining carbs first though

I wouldn't have thought it was the pilot jets. According to this:http://www.dansmc.com/carbs2.htm it would be the pilot/idle jet. But since it goes away when it's warm it would be unlikely?

I'd have thought it would be a choke/richness problem but anything where you could get condensation going from cold to hot and/or water would be a fair bet too.

please let me know if you want any more uneducated guesswork, I'm always up for talking knowledgeably about things I'm Ignorant of :-)

darrsi · « **Reply #60 on:** 06 March 2013, 01:23:43 pm »

I've no doubt that those drain screws are made of cheese, so i presume that's why it was suggested not to overtighten them, not that i'd do such a terrible thing?

red98 · « **Reply #61 on:** 06 March 2013, 02:10:45 pm »

Quote from: simonm on 06 March 2013, 10:20:57 am

Quote from: red98 on 06 March 2013, 09:13:35 am
my monies still on pilot jets.....worth draining carbs first though

I wouldn't have thought it was the pilot jets. According to this:http://www.dansmc.com/carbs2.htm it would be the pilot/idle jet. But since it goes away when it's warm it would be unlikely?

I'd have thought it would be a choke/richness problem but anything where you could get condensation going from cold to hot and/or water would be a fair bet too.

please let me know if you want any more uneducated guesswork, I'm always up for talking knowledgeably about things I'm Ignorant of :-)

mmmmmm....yes good point about starting ok when warm

pilot/idle jets work on tick over and then the main jets take over.......so cold starting problem and no recent changes to bike,i can see why you think contaminated fuel.....very interested to see the outcome of this one

unfazed · « **Reply #62 on:** 07 March 2013, 11:24:33 pm »

Don't forget to drain the fuel filter also.

darrsi · « **Reply #63 on:** 07 March 2013, 11:49:44 pm »

I gave the bike a drink yesterday, i put some 99% Isopropyl Alcohol in the fuel tank, if there is any water in the tank it should bind with it then get burnt off as fuel.

I'll still drain it on Saturday morning anyway just in case there's a pool of it in the bottom of the carbs, but the I.A. can be pretty effective on it's own.
Obviously i will need to have the bike sitting still over night to try that out so it can settle properly.

unfazed · « **Reply #64 on:** 08 March 2013, 12:35:15 am »

It will not matter a lot when you drain, but to determine if it is the problem then draining prior to starting is best.
Not a great fan of using Isopropyl as it can damage some types of fuel lines. I prefer to use the old fashioned way of draining then I know the water is gone.

darrsi · « **Reply #65 on:** 08 March 2013, 06:59:32 am »

I'll be so happy if i can wring some water out of the carbs, firstly 'cos it's a simple fix that i didn't know about, and secondly 'cos it means there was a problem that wasn't there before and i wasn't dreaming that my bike has never needed choke in the mornings before!

darrsi · « **Reply #66 on:** 08 March 2013, 09:02:51 am »

Another interesting update, this morning i started the bike with absolutely no trouble whatsoever!
One blip of the throttle and it ticked over happily, no choke needed at all.
About 90 seconds later i was off down the road expecting it to get throaty again for the first mile or so......but.....nothing!
Smooth as you like, no issues at all as if i'd been riding it all day!
It's fairly mild outside but was foggy, but i'm starting to think the alcohol i put in the tank on Wednesday has done it's job and helped burn off any water that may have been in the tank?
As i said earlier i'll still drain the bowls in the morning just so i can say it's been done but at the moment it appears to be back to normal

richfzs · « **Reply #67 on:** 08 March 2013, 09:08:53 am »

Does ipa also bind activ8 to itself as well?

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packie · « **Reply #68 on:** 08 March 2013, 09:16:27 am »

Quote from: darrsi on 08 March 2013, 09:02:51 am

but i'm starting to think the alcohol i put in the tank on Wednesday has done it's job and helped burn off any water that may have been in the tank?

...it appears so!!.........Kudos to Unfazed for pointing to the problem.

darrsi · « **Reply #69 on:** 08 March 2013, 09:33:08 am »

Quote from: richfzs on 08 March 2013, 09:08:53 am

Does ipa also bind activ8 to itself as well?

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Ha ha, i knew i could rely on someone to bring that up!

Nothing can grab hold of Activ8, it's far too much of a slippery customer!

darrsi · « **Reply #70 on:** 08 March 2013, 09:35:43 am »

Quote from: packie on 08 March 2013, 09:16:27 am

Quote from: darrsi on 08 March 2013, 09:02:51 am
but i'm starting to think the alcohol i put in the tank on Wednesday has done it's job and helped burn off any water that may have been in the tank?

...it appears so!!.........Kudos to Unfazed for pointing to the problem.

It's only fair to take the bike out for a drink every now and then.

darrsi · « **Reply #71 on:** 09 March 2013, 01:31:20 pm »

Just a quick update, i just drained the carbs and there didn't appear to be anything sinister in the fuel, it was just pure petrol that came out.

The bike also started on the button again without any gargling so i reckon that the Isopropyl may have had the desired effect and mixed with any moisture and burnt it off.

Thanks for all the advice as always, me and the bike are happy again