Clutchless Gear Changes - Again

[Skippernick]

I went on a IAM check ride today, and all went well. A couple of things he mentioned to help improve my smoothness was clutchless gear changes.
I know this was mentioned before but can't remember where.
He was saying use the clutch on 1,2,3 up changes, on 4th put a little pressure on the gear lever and then you can use less clutch when you go to change, thats fine as i would still be using the clutch. But on 5 and 6th up changes he said he doesn't use the clutch at all.
Is this ok with our gear boxes, because they are quite clunky at the best of times. Its and 02 600.
On all down changes he said use the clutch at all times.
I just want to know if this is ok on the gear box, NOT whether it is an appropriate thing to do in every day riding.
Cheers
Nick

[philshaq]

I've been doing it with mine since buying it, I tend to stay away from doing it between 1st and 2nd and only between 2-3 when really pushing it as otherwise it does feel a bit clunky.


I spoke to a guy at my local garage about that and he said its easier on certain gearboxes at certain rpm, it deffinately works well 3-4, 4-5 and 5-6, hardly feel it at all 5-6.


And to answer your question the gearbox has been fine since I bought it 6 months ago with daily riding as mentioned above.

[Ruby Racing]

You can do clutchless upshifts on pretty much any bike and any gear. Not just the higher gears, although I'd use the clutch on first to second as it is usually a big jump. And yes, always use the clutch on the downshift as it's much kinder on the gearbox and you'll be smoother.


I use a combination of clutch and no clutch on the road depending how I feel. On track I never use the clutch on an upshift. If you want a really fast clutchless upshift load the gear lever for the next gear as you accelerate and then when you want to change up, as soon as you come off the throttle the drop in load on the gearbox means the next gear slides home in no time, then back on the gas. You can do clutchless whatever pace you ride at. Just experiment and you'll find what's smoothest for you and your bike. 

[noggythenog]

I was getting into clutchless gear changing last year but after reading about the issues between 1st & 2nd ive now decided not to do it again,personal choice & just trying to be sympathetic.i now plan on relatively slow & relaxed changes from 1st to 2nd before getting frantic.


It's definitely cool & its smooth but to me being a new rider it's not intuitive & another thing to actively think about instead of fully concentrating on the other stuff.


Another thing is that i dont seem to be relaxed having my toe pressure on the gear lever but it might be that i need to adjust things a bit to be more comfy.

[Ruby Racing]

Another thing is that i dont seem to be relaxed having my toe pressure on the gear lever but it might be that i need to adjust things a bit to be more comfy.

You only need to load the gear lever when you want to change, just the same as using the clutch. So roll off the throttle, shift gear lever then back on the gas. You're actually freeing up your mind for other things as you're not using the clutch. It's something to practice away from other distractions, say on a quiet stretch of road, until it becomes natural. I slip between using the clutch and not on a ride, but I don't really think about it. With practice you can get it so you don't even notice the gear change.

[Dead Eye]

I use clutchless up shifts nearly all the time bar 1-2 and I don't often do it between 2-3 except under when I'm gunning it at high RPM

It's very easy to do and is very quick, just back off the power momentarily and click up to the next gear - simple! Works better in the lower gears when you are giving it some as it tends to not always like it when just cruising along with next to no acceleration - at least from my experience

[snapper]

sorry clutchless gear changes ?
why bother ?
I'd rather replace a clutch than risk blowing a gear box !

[wannafazer]

Pretty much always on up changes. Don't recall anyone killing anything doing them to be honest.

[snapper]

I find it very hard to belive  that they do no harm in the long run !
 
 maybe be the odd one here or there but you are smashing together two cogs that are both under load ( spinning )
there has to be some damage eventually !
 
Im not saying I've never dont it as I know I have but !still dont think its good for your bike !
 
 

[Slaninar]

I find it very hard to belive  that they do no harm in the long run !

Me too. But a friend who's been riding (and racing) for over 30 yers said he's never damaged gearbox doing clutchless up changes.

I never use the clutch when changing up, except when riding very slow and easy (even then just between 1st and 2nd gears).

I always use it when changing down, ofcourse.


It takes some practice, but it can be done very smoothly when done well, no stress on the g-box/engine.

[red98]

too get a smooth clutchless change the trick is to match engine speed to road speed  .......not worth it on the road 

[noggythenog]

 
Anyone got a quick shifter fitted???
 
anyone else in the know about how these gadgets actually work as in do they use the clutch, i prob should just google it but then if everyone googled things there'd be nothing to talk about    & are quick shifters  in turn more mechanically sympathetic to the gearbox?

[Lawrence]

Anyone got a quick shifter fitted???
 
anyone else in the know about how these gadgets actually work as in do they use the clutch, i prob should just google it but then if everyone googled things there'd be nothing to talk about    & are quick shifters  in turn more mechanically sympathetic to the gearbox?

Afaik a quickshifter just cuts the throttle electronically (sparks I assume) momentarily when it detects the shift lever moving.  Just hold the throttle open and ignore the clutch.
 
As for smashing two gears together... if you do that it'll go cruuuuuuuuunch and you'll look like a pratt     If you do it with no crunching it's just sliding them into place the same as if you pull the clutch.

[simonm]

reading up on thei and have found this youtube clip handy.

Clutchless gear changing, gear shifting or upshifting.

[simonm]

This is good too:


http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tips/146_0704_clutchless_upshifting/viewall.html

[ponkster]

never met anyone who uses the clutch changing up on 3rd 4th 5th and 6th  except guys who ride big heavy cruisers  -  clutchless changes are a lot smother at the upper end of the rev range.


Modern bike gearboxes are designed to do this as they mesh with out the cluch at roughly the mid point in the rev range going up the box - but I wouldn't try it coming down the box - now that would bugger your gearbox up!