Author Topic: Neutral indicator light (Read 3272 times)

dickturpin · « **on:** 13 September 2016, 11:24:28 am »

Since fitting the small led bulbs into my clocks, I have noticed the slightest of glows from the neutral warning lamp when the bike is n gear. The glow is very weak but nevertheless there. The light illuminates normally when in neutral.
I'm guessing the switch is allowing the smallest amount of current to pass.
Any thoughts other than the switch?

D

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 September 2016, 03:49:20 pm »

Fit an LED there too. That will stop it.

celticdog · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 September 2016, 08:29:51 pm »

Did you fit a resistor with in line with the LEDs? You might need to limit the current in the LED to a safer value. With LEDs a small change in voltage can produce a big change in current, that's probably what's slightly energizing the neutral lamp.

dickturpin · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 September 2016, 08:30:23 pm »

It is already a led....I did them all at the same time.

celticdog · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 September 2016, 09:06:25 pm »

Well If it's not the switch it's the wiring, either a bad earth or a continuity issue-bad connections or a nick in the wire. Time to dig out you multi meter fella!

Frosties · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 September 2016, 10:08:23 pm »

Quote from: celticdog on 13 September 2016, 08:29:51 pm

Did you fit a resistor with in line with the LEDs? You might need to limit the current in the LED to a safer value. With LEDs a small change in voltage can produce a big change in current, that's probably what's slightly energizing the neutral lamp.

+1 for a small inline resistor. If you have a potentiometer you should be able to find the exact resistance value required.

dickturpin · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 September 2016, 08:27:42 am »

Thanks guys....I don't have a potentiometer and do 'get by' with my multimeter but no expert on its uses.
I think my next step will be to remove the clocks again....see what it looks like without the coloured lenses and possibly replace that led back to original bulb to see if that glows.
It's really dim so I could just live with it?

D

windyg · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 September 2016, 09:05:07 pm »

I had the same problem but only when the bike was wet.

In the end i traced the problem to the connector block in the left hand fairing, once I cleaned all the contacts it worked fine.

dickturpin · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 September 2016, 09:09:41 pm »

Quote from: windyg on 14 September 2016, 09:05:07 pm

I had the same problem but only when the bike was wet.

In the end i traced the problem to the connector block in the left hand fairing, once I cleaned all the contacts it worked fine.
[/quote

Thank you for that ...I will take a closer look when I get time....I had just washed the bike when I noticed it.

D

Grahamm · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 September 2016, 12:50:09 am »

Quote from: windyg on 14 September 2016, 09:05:07 pm

I had the same problem but only when the bike was wet.

I've had the same happen on my FZ6. Eventually it dries out and the light goes off, no big deal

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 September 2016, 11:54:04 am »

LED's are diodes.
Current should only flow in one direction through the LED. If it doesn't, the LED is knackered.
LEDs only light up when a minimum voltage is reached. They are either on or off. Anything else, the LED is knackered.

dickturpin · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 September 2016, 01:16:58 pm »

So are you saying a led will not give a 'reduced glow' if the current into it is low?

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 September 2016, 01:49:49 pm »

I am saying, it shouldn't give a reduced glow if it is working properly. This is why dimmable LED lights for at home have taken so long to become common compared to the on/off type we have seen for years. Lots of circuitry involved to illuminate LEDS at different voltages until you get all of them alight at full voltage.
Bike LED's tend to be on or off with a single diode not multi-diode variable ones.

dickturpin · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 September 2016, 02:13:31 pm »

OK...thank you for that.

D

Punkstig · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 September 2016, 03:57:57 pm »

It's called 'ghosting' a common problem when upgrading filament bulbs with cheap LED's as the slightest bit of power compared to what is needed with a filament bulb will illuminate an led slightly!

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 September 2016, 05:56:02 pm »

Cheap LED = Crap LED
If you took it apart you would probably find there is a filament in there rather than an LED

dickturpin · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 September 2016, 08:05:18 pm »

Well now I'm confused...Punkstig you seem to be at odds with what BBrown is saying.
Not wanting to cause ruptions here but the 'ghosting' you describe seems to sum up the symptoms well.

D

Punkstig · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 September 2016, 04:52:25 pm »

It's good innit!

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 September 2016, 05:26:53 pm »

I am not disagreeing with Punkstig (He's bigger than me

)

Ghosting only happens with cheap diodes and tends to eb where they "leak" current backwards through the circuitry. The leakage is commonly down to a bad earth somewhere.
Generally speaking an LED that is working properly allows no current through in one direction and only allows current through in the other direction when a minimum voltage is applied. When this happens with an LED you get a full brightness illumination. Anything less than full brightness = a fault somewhere.

crickleymal · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 September 2016, 09:26:52 pm »

I build my own caving lights using LEDs and I find LEDs will glow with a tiny amount of current providing you have reached what is called the forward voltage. For white leds this is about 3 volts, red about 1.2 volts. I have seen them start to glow at lowervoltages though.
LEDs are not designed to be reverse biased. In other words you shouldn't apply voltage the wrong way round (unless they're protected by special circuitry) otherwise they can be destroyed. If you're using a led bulb designed to work from 12v you'll be OK and they usually can take having reverse voltage even if they don't work one way round, also you won't need current limiting resistors. However if you use a plain led they will need a current limiting resistor otherwise they'll only last a nano second at 12v. You must be using led bulbs because they work without a resistor. For your application the leds will only need 10mA or so each. So for a plain LED a resistor of about 100 ohms would be called for. Without it the current would be several amps and would instantly blow the LED.

Frosties · « **Reply #20 on:** 16 September 2016, 11:36:54 pm »

Agree - 100 Ohms "ish" should work if you don't have a potentiometer to hand but Maplins is nearby.

Else try this equation....

crickleymal · « **Reply #21 on:** 16 September 2016, 11:42:50 pm »

Heh, yes that's how I worked vout the resistor value. Seriously though, a resistor won't be needed because if it was the LEDs would have popped long before.